Carlos Baleba | joins United | Announced

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Hammondo said:
I really don't, Babela is much better imo.
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Baleba due to his ridiculous athleticism eats up the ground like there's no tomorrow, whereas Santos has better positioning and just is at the right place at the right time. Granted, I've only seen him in our pre season games.

It's a bit like the old argument at Redcafe; Scott Parker vs Carrick.
Parker ran around like an idiot, and to be fair it did look a bit impressive. But he did that in order to get to where he should have been two secs ago, due to poor defensive positioning and a lack of anticipatory awareness. Carrick had all that, in spades.

That being said, I haven't seen enough of Baleba to say that he's 100 % like Parker in that regard. But he does have a tremendous appetite for ground. If he has the positioning and awareness as well, then we're talking of the love child of Makelele and Kante.
 
Hammondo said:
I really don't, Babela is much better imo.
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It's a game of opinions we will see when the seasons out. I feel Baleba is better box to box, santos is a clever defensive screen with progressive passing
 
Floyd said:
Baleba due to his ridiculous athleticism eats up the ground like there's no tomorrow, whereas Santos has better positioning and just is at the right place at the right time. Granted, I've only seen him in our pre season games.

It's a bit like the old argument at Redcafe; Scott Parker vs Carrick.
Parker ran around like an idiot, and to be fair it did look a bit impressive. But he did that in order to get to where he should have been two secs ago, due to poor defensive positioning and a lack of anticipatory awareness. Carrick had all that, in spades.

That being said, I haven't seen enough of Baleba to say that he's 100 % like Parker in that regard. But he does have a tremendous appetite for ground. If he has the positioning and awareness as well, then we're talking of the love child of Makelele and Kante.
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I think Baleba has very good positioning, baleba doesn't just ruin around, he anchors the midfield.
 
ron86 said:
He anchors the bench when Milners fit
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And people want us to drop big money on him. Probably the same people a few years back that assured us all that Ugarte would be the tough tackling six we were missing.
 
Garethw said:
And people want us to drop big money on him. Probably the same people a few years back that assured us all that Ugarte would be the tough tackling six we were missing.
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He might end up a really good PL players as he has a skilset but he's massively overrated on this forum. Prime Edgar Davis he won't be
 
I feel like if news started to filter through that he's done both ACLs, people would still be posting to put a cheeky bid in to see if Brighton can be convinced to sell.
 
Garethw said:
And people want us to drop big money on him. Probably the same people a few years back that assured us all that Ugarte would be the tough tackling six we were missing.
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They are very very different players, I never wanted ugarte I wanted neves.
 
ron86 said:
Even at a discount he would be our most expensive midfidler and I think Santos, tielemans and Mainoo would all outperform him
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Depends really. He’s a different type of midfielder. Passing wise maybe but in terms of pressing / screening the defence/ physicality… I don’t think so .

Would still prefer tchouameni but I don’t think it’s realistic to think we have a chance there. I’d rather him than Berge to be honest.
 
El-Manos said:
Depends really. He’s a different type of midfielder. Passing wise maybe but in terms of pressing / screening the defence/ physicality… I don’t think so .

Would still prefer tchouameni but I don’t think it’s realistic to think we have a chance there. I’d rather him than Berge to be honest.
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Different in terms of quality, most certainly. He is garbage. We better keep to our senses and stay the feck as far away as humanly possible.
 
Ando8Goat said:
Different in terms of quality, most certainly. He is garbage. We better keep to our senses and stay the feck as far away as humanly possible.
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I don’t think he’s garbage by any means but he’s not my first choice target. I don’t think we are chasing him either way. He’d be a United player already if we wanted him; considering the ground work we put in last summer and his reported eagerness to join
 
El-Manos said:
Depends really. He’s a different type of midfielder. Passing wise maybe but in terms of pressing / screening the defence/ physicality… I don’t think so .

Would still prefer tchouameni but I don’t think it’s realistic to think we have a chance there. I’d rather him than Berge to be honest.
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Feel like this guy or Berge are only realistic DM targets
 
With his keenness to join us but no deal having happened surely that suggests the club have other targets they are working on instead

Carrick was reasonably clear (for him at least) that there were more incomings needed
 
FlyingTrotter said:
With his keenness to join us but no deal having happened surely that suggests the club have other targets they are working on instead

Carrick was reasonably clear (for him at least) that there were more incomings needed
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So was Mourinho.

Glazers…. but Jim gets the blame
 
I just checked last 10 year net spend (just reported transfers not adding agents etc) and the current £30m is below the lowest which was £42m followed by £58m and the average is around £150m net with £209m the highest

I think we will see at least 2 more but not expecting Baleba to be one - LB, DM and reports today about a back up striker - younger if JZ leaves and older if he stays
 
Unless Brighton are willing to accept 35-40m for Baleba, the Baleba ship has sailed. He was never even an 80m midfielder to begin with during his glory days of two seasons ago, but Brighton jacked up their demand to 100m. A club like that doesn't deserve the 60m they'd likely demand for Baleba now.
 
ron86 said:
He anchors the bench when Milners fit
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Kobbie and Amad has been glued to the bench at times as well. Every manager has their own idea how to get the best out of team. That in itself tells us very little about how he could fit in with us.
But he is obviously not going anywhere in current state.
 
Gordon S said:
Kobbie and Amad has been glued to the bench at times as well. Every manager has their own idea how to get the best out of team. That in itself tells us very little about how he could fit in with us.
But he is obviously not going anywhere in current state.
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He was on the bench because he was performing not up to par. Different situation.
 
I'd much sooner sign Berge than Baleba.

I typically scold others for using this line but I'm going to be a hypocrite here and say that I think there's a very real chance that Baleba ends up being another Ugarte. Baleba's passing last season was really erratic, and given that we have Tielemans, Mainoo, and Andrey Santos as our starting options, I really don't want us to be in a situation where we have to completely surrender control of the game eny time the fourth midfielder enters the pitch because they just aren't able to keep the ball under any kind of pressure.

Berge doesn't have Baleba's ability to cover ground like an animal but he's considerably more assured with the ball whilst still being a solid defensive screen, and I'd much sooner have us go for that profile.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
I'd much sooner sign Berge than Baleba.

I typically scold others for using this line but I'm going to be a hypocrite here and say that I think there's a very real chance that Baleba ends up being another Ugarte. Baleba's passing last season was really erratic, and given that we have Tielemans, Mainoo, and Andrey Santos as our starting options, I really don't want us to be in a situation where we have to completely surrender control of the game eny time the fourth midfielder enters the pitch because they just aren't able to keep the ball under any kind of pressure.

Berge doesn't have Baleba's ability to cover ground like an animal but he's considerably more assured with the ball whilst still being a solid defensive screen, and I'd much sooner have us go for that profile.
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Berge is streets ahead of Baleba currently.
His ability to cover ground is a touch underrated imo. His long legs and running style makes it look like he doesn’t even try but he is fast when he gets going. Reads the game well also.
 
Gordon S said:
Berge is streets ahead of Baleba currently.
His ability to cover ground is a touch underrated imo. His long legs and running style makes it look like he doesn’t even try but he is fast when he gets going. Reads the game well also.
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I agree.

I've really warmed to the idea of signing Berge to be honest. I think he goes a bit under the radar because he wouldn't be a particularly glamorous signing and he's not necessarily "elite" at anything.

I'd say he's a very solid midfielder with a profile that complements what we already have. It also seems as though Fulham would be willing to let him go for a fairly reasonable fee.
 
Why are we discussing the likes of Baleba and Berge? Neither are anywhere near good enough to close the gap on the teams above us. If the talent isn’t available we’d be far better off saving our money or spending it in other areas and giving the youngsters some game time. Even dropping Bruno deeper in games if we need to and giving some of our talented young attacking players more opportunities.

I’m all for improving the squad but we consistently waste money on dross and end up stuck with players for years
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
I agree.

I've really warmed to the idea of signing Berge to be honest. I think he goes a bit under the radar because he wouldn't be a particularly glamorous signing and he's not necessarily "elite" at anything.

I'd say he's a very solid midfielder with a profile that complements what we already have. It also seems as though Fulham would be willing to let him go for a fairly reasonable fee.
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If we got Berge and Hall I’d consider this an excellent transfer window.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
I agree.

I've really warmed to the idea of signing Berge to be honest. I think he goes a bit under the radar because he wouldn't be a particularly glamorous signing and he's not necessarily "elite" at anything.

I'd say he's a very solid midfielder with a profile that complements what we already have. It also seems as though Fulham would be willing to let him go for a fairly reasonable fee.
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I think its underwhelming tbh, will be like signing Matic (when he came to us), solid all round but not that player to take us to the next level.

That being said, we desperately need reinforcements in midfield so i'd take him.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
Why are we discussing the likes of Baleba and Berge? Neither are anywhere near good enough to close the gap on the teams above us. If the talent isn’t available we’d be far better off saving our money or spending it in other areas and giving the youngsters some game time. Even dropping Bruno deeper in games if we need to and giving some of our talented young attacking players more opportunities.

I’m all for improving the squad but we consistently waste money on dross and end up stuck with players for years
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Because we can't afford the top players, they cost 100m+ we're not in that league anymore.
 
Zumbi said:
If we got Berge and Hall I’d consider this an excellent transfer window.
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Absolutely. I'd be very, very happy if we sign both of those two and nobody else. Well, I'd quite like for us to get the Louis Page deal done as well!
 
worldinmotion66 said:
Why are we discussing the likes of Baleba and Berge? Neither are anywhere near good enough to close the gap on the teams above us. If the talent isn’t available we’d be far better off saving our money or spending it in other areas and giving the youngsters some game time. Even dropping Bruno deeper in games if we need to and giving some of our talented young attacking players more opportunities.

I’m all for improving the squad but we consistently waste money on dross and end up stuck with players for years
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Having Berge as a CM/DM squad option would be much better than putting Fernandes there. Berge actually plays that role very well, and certainly better than Fernandes.

Title challenging teams don't have stars in every position. They also have lots of very solid players who perform their role well and provide balance, allowing a foundation for the stars to shine. Our issue has been spending large amounts on players who aren't that goood and/or who don't actually suit our needs very well. In contrast, Berge has a profile which would be very useful for us right now.
 
I don't understand this kind of attitude to transfers. Berge is a decent player but not elite and is not going to improve us. Hall is a good player but incredibly expensive, and could potentially be much cheaper next year. Neither player really elevates our first team significantly. Surely there are better options?

I agree with the poster above. We should not, and I think will not, go for the likes of Baleba and Berge. And we should only sign Hall if the price works.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
Why are we discussing the likes of Baleba and Berge? Neither are anywhere near good enough to close the gap on the teams above us. If the talent isn’t available we’d be far better off saving our money or spending it in other areas and giving the youngsters some game time. Even dropping Bruno deeper in games if we need to and giving some of our talented young attacking players more opportunities.

I’m all for improving the squad but we consistently waste money on dross and end up stuck with players for years
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The issue with that is that, without another midfield signing, I'd say there's a very real chance that we fall much further in the league next season and that makes it much more difficult to sign those players who might close the gap when they do become available.

With the midfield in its current state, an injury to Andrey Santos would leave us in big trouble and a further one to Mainoo or Tielemans would leave us fairly well fecked. We don't yet have an academy talent who we can fairly depend on to play significant minutes in midfield next season, and we absolutely cannot gamble on Mount being consistently available.

The reason I like Berge is that he'd likely be available for a reasonable fee, he's of an age where he can play a valuable role for us for several years without necessarily hindering Andrey Santos' development, and his profile complements the players we already have.
 
sincher said:
I don't understand this kind of attitude to transfers. Berge is a decent player but not elite and is not going to improve us. Hall is a good player but incredibly expensive, and could potentially be much cheaper next year. Neither player really elevates our first team significantly. Surely there are better options?

I agree with the poster above. We should not, and I think will not, go for the likes of Baleba and Berge. And we should only sign Hall if the price works.
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I disagree on Hall - I think that having a quality LB who can get up and down and actually support our attack in a meaningful way would improve us and would have a significant impact on the balance of our whole team. Right now our left side is limited and predictable because Shaw is too hesitant to commit himself forward consistently. A LB who can offer an overlap/underlap would offer an additional threat themselves and would help get more out of Cunha/Dorgu. And I'm not sure why Hall would be much cheaper next year?

Berge would add some much needed depth at CM, which we obviously need. We don't have the funds to bring in a marquee signing, and I suspect a combo of Santos/Tielemans/Mainoo will be seen as first choice at CM anyway, which is why a player like Berge makes sense. Having him come in as cover or rotation would be a significant step up from Fletcher playing that 4th CM role (or just not having proper depth).
 
Zumbi said:
I disagree on Hall - I think that having a quality LB who can get up and down and actually support our attack in a meaningful way would improve us and would have a significant impact on the balance of our whole team. Right now our left side is limited and predictable because Shaw is too hesitant to commit himself forward consistently. A LB who can offer an overlap/underlap would offer an additional threat themselves and would help get more out of Cunha/Dorgu. And I'm not sure why Hall would be much cheaper next year?

Berge would add some much needed depth at CM, which we obviously need. We don't have the funds to bring in a marquee signing, and I suspect a combo of Santos/Tielemans/Mainoo will be seen as first choice at CM anyway, which is why a player like Berge makes sense. Having him come in as cover or rotation would be a significant step up from Fletcher playing that 4th CM role (or just not having proper depth).
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I think having a left back who can overlap is actually fundamental to get the best out of Cunha as he naturally comes infield. If there’s no overlap it’s a lot easier to double up on him. But someone like Hall, especially with the quality of his delivery mot only gives us a new direct threat but also magnifies the impact Cunha can have. So I agree with you.
 
simonhch said:
I think having a left back who can overlap is actually fundamental to get the best out of Cunha as he naturally comes infield. If there’s no overlap it’s a lot easier to double up on him. But someone like Hall, especially with the quality of his delivery mot only gives us a new direct threat but also magnifies the impact Cunha can have. So I agree with you.
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Yep exactly. I'm not sure how you can look at this team and not think a LB like Hall would improve us.
 
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