Carlos Baleba

Terry Chango said:
Really ?

The real problem is Kobbie.

You think Kobbie can’t run (most distance covered again yesterday) or pass (most successful passes out of all United players yesterday) well enough ?

His close control and ability to play one touch football (passing) under pressure on the edge of his own box, middle of the park or especially in and around the oppositions box is brilliant.

He’s covering more distance than any other player in most matches he’s played under Carrick and playing as part of a double pivot with Cass who has no legs but elite positional awareness.

Maybe I’ve read your post wrong bud but Kobbie is not the problem at man united as your post claims.
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But he is slow and struggles to keep up with faster players, and his passing range is limited. We do need someone who is very athletic and has a longer passing range, which is a problem. Mainoo really only suits a midfield 3 (not one with bruno).
 
Hammondo said:
But he is slow and struggles to keep up with faster players, and his passing range is limited. We do need someone who is very athletic and has a longer passing range, which is a problem. Mainoo really only suits a midfield 3 (not one with bruno).
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Such a weird point when the last weeks or his showings for England provide ample proof of the opposite
 
Terry Chango said:
Really ?

The real problem is Kobbie.

You think Kobbie can’t run (most distance covered again yesterday) or pass (most successful passes out of all United players yesterday) well enough ?

His close control and ability to play one touch football (passing) under pressure on the edge of his own box, middle of the park or especially in and around the oppositions box is brilliant.

He’s covering more distance than any other player in most matches he’s played under Carrick and playing as part of a double pivot with Cass who has no legs but elite positional awareness.

Maybe I’ve read your post wrong bud but Kobbie is not the problem at man united as your post claims.
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Mainoo's endurance and workrate are not the issues fans are touching on when they bring up his legs. It's his speed and dynamism, which are lacking.

And his short interplay passing is fantastic, but he hasn't demonstrated a great ability to unlock teams with direct, cutting passes.

Mainoo is a good player and a great prospect, but there are valid concerns about how you build a midfield with him.
 
Terry Chango said:
Really ?

The real problem is Kobbie.

You think Kobbie can’t run (most distance covered again yesterday) or pass (most successful passes out of all United players yesterday) well enough ?

His close control and ability to play one touch football (passing) under pressure on the edge of his own box, middle of the park or especially in and around the oppositions box is brilliant.

He’s covering more distance than any other player in most matches he’s played under Carrick and playing as part of a double pivot with Cass who has no legs but elite positional awareness.

Maybe I’ve read your post wrong bud but Kobbie is not the problem at man united as your post claims.
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Every footballer can ‘run’. Casemiro can ‘run’. The issue is that, like Mainoo, he cannot run fast enough. Once a player gets the other side of him, it’s a big problem.

He has excellent close control and can play one touch passing around his box as you said. We will need to ask ourselves whether that is sufficient or at a sufficient enough level to compensate for his inability to run fast enough, or to pass progressively enough.

Is there really no ‘neat and tidy’ we can get with either a better engine, or better passing? Mateus Fernandes and Alex Scott are just two examples of very good close control that comes without the liability of poor sprint power.

If Mainoo could run harder, so many people would not be against signing Adam Wharton for example. After all, he can come in and add the progressive passing Mainoo lacks. The obvious issue is that everyone knows that there would not be enough running power in such a partnership. Now we have Baleba, who has as much running power and duelling ability as you can ask for, yet people are concerned about whether a partnership between him and Mainoo can work because ‘who will progress the ball’. So I ask - which bit is Mainoo’s role? Goals? The odd dribble and layoff? I’m not sure it’s enough, and I think that would be more apparent if he were not one of our own.

So yes, in my personal view - Mainoo is the problem. He shouldn’t be sold or anything. But any mandate of ‘finding a partner for Mainoo’ complicates our midfield pursuit significantly, and limits us to profiles that don’t really exist.

I ask you, if Kante was available in his prime today and we were linked to him, how many of you would be satisfied of a potential partnership of him and Mainoo? I’ll then ask if Pirlo was available in his prime today, how many of you would be satisfied with a partnership of him and Mainoo? If the answer is ‘not many’ - I have just named the very best of the two common profiles of deep midfielders from the past 20-odd years. The problem obviously isn’t them. It seems that the only answer is then to go and find a Rodri who has the running AND the passing - which gives Mainoo the platform to do his dribbles and one touch. Good luck with that.

I think the very harsh truth is that we shouldn’t be building any midfield around Mainoo, as I have seen proposed in various quarters.
 
Globule said:
Mainoo's endurance and workrate are not the issues fans are touching on when they bring up his legs. It's his speed and dynamism, which are lacking.

And his short interplay passing is fantastic, but he hasn't demonstrated a great ability to unlock teams with direct, cutting passes.

Mainoo is a good player and a great prospect, but there are valid concerns about how you build a midfield with him.
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Kobbie really reminds me of a young Clarence Seedorf at Ajax. He also lacked speed and dynamism but his interlinking passing / workrate was very similar - and his passing definitely improved as he got older when he played for Madrid and Milan. Kobbie can do the same.

I think we all agree have a gem on our hands should he keep developing how he needs to.

The risk of getting these new players in - be it Anderson / Wharton and Baleba is that they're all young and lack experience. I still think we need a Casemiro-esk player to help these guys through matches at times but don't see us being able to afford both.
 
We need an rvn said:
Kobbie really reminds me of a young Clarence Seedorf at Ajax. He also lacked speed and dynamism but his interlinking passing / workrate was very similar - and his passing definitely improved as he got older when he played for Madrid and Milan. Kobbie can do the same.

I think we all agree have a gem on our hands should he keep developing how he needs to.

The risk of getting these new players in - be it Anderson / Wharton and Baleba is that they're all young and lack experience. I still think we need a Casemiro-esk player to help these guys through matches at times but don't see us being able to afford both.
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That's a great comparison. I've always felt that Mainoo would thrive in a diamond like Seedorf at AC Milan.

That doesn't mean it's the only way to get the best from Mainoo, but I do think we need to have a broader range of skills in our midfield and to not compound the weaknesses.
 
Rozay said:
Every footballer can ‘run’. Casemiro can ‘run’. The issue is that, like Mainoo, he cannot run fast enough. Once a player gets the other side of him, it’s a big problem.

He has excellent close control and can play one touch passing around his box as you said. We will need to ask ourselves whether that is sufficient or at a sufficient enough level to compensate for his inability to run fast enough, or to pass progressively enough.

Is there really no ‘neat and tidy’ we can get with either a better engine, or better passing? Mateus Fernandes and Alex Scott are just two examples of very good close control that comes without the liability of poor sprint power.

If Mainoo could run harder, so many people would not be against signing Adam Wharton for example. After all, he can come in and add the progressive passing Mainoo lacks. The obvious issue is that everyone knows that there would not be enough running power in such a partnership. Now we have Baleba, who has as much running power and duelling ability as you can ask for, yet people are concerned about whether a partnership between him and Mainoo can work because ‘who will progress the ball’. So I ask - which bit is Mainoo’s role? Goals? The odd dribble and layoff? I’m not sure it’s enough, and I think that would be more apparent if he were not one of our own.

So yes, in my personal view - Mainoo is the problem. He shouldn’t be sold or anything. But any mandate of ‘finding a partner for Mainoo’ complicates our midfield pursuit significantly, and limits us to profiles that don’t really exist.

I ask you, if Kante was available in his prime today and we were linked to him, how many of you would be satisfied of a potential partnership of him and Mainoo? I’ll then ask if Pirlo was available in his prime today, how many of you would be satisfied with a partnership of him and Mainoo? If the answer is ‘not many’ - I have just named the very best of the two common profiles of deep midfielders from the past 20-odd years. The problem obviously isn’t them. It seems that the only answer is then to go and find a Rodri who has the running AND the passing - which gives Mainoo the platform to do his dribbles and one touch. Good luck with that.

I think the very harsh truth is that we shouldn’t be building any midfield around Mainoo, as I have seen proposed in various quarters.
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I don't think that in this team and in this league, with a brief of making another top three finish plus a CL 1/4 final appearance, a Mainoo - Baleba midfield duo is that bad. They are players who are still developing and will add more bows to their skill sets with more experience.

What is crucial though is to accompany that signing with another player who can do the defensive and passing (ball progression) stuff so that it becomes a genuine competition and that we have a proper player to sub in to see out games. If that player has the potential to overtake Kobie then so be it. I think players like Bouaddi, Scott etc can play that role effectively.
 
Mainoo is physically miles away from Seedorf. I think it would not be problem to build midfield around him if he was a physical beast like Seedorf was. I have try to think a perfect partner to play with him but couldn't find any. In a perfect world we would sign one passer and one player with legs. The latter one also with some technical ability, not pure workhorse. Baleba would be ok but i'm not sure he would fit to play with Mainoo. Does they offer enough creativity? I still think Fernandes would be a better option. He have a decent passing range, but also can play deeper in a defensive role. Decent technically. Of course not as defensive option as Baleba would be. But what we prefer?
 
Hanky panky said:
Mainoo is physically miles away from Seedorf. I think it would not be problem to build midfield around him if he was a physical beast like Seedorf was. I have try to think a perfect partner to play with him but couldn't find any. In a perfect world we would sign one passer and one player with legs. The latter one also with some technical ability, not pure workhorse. Baleba would be ok but i'm not sure he would fit to play with Mainoo. Does they offer enough creativity? I still think Fernandes would be a better option. He have a decent passing range, but also can play deeper in a defensive role. Decent technically. Of course not as defensive option as Baleba would be. But what we prefer?
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Mainoo is far from weak, hes actually very strong in duels. What he lacks is explosiveness which he can improve on, especially as he is still young.

Mainoo at 24/25 if developed well could be a completely different prospect
 
Mainoo is the problem.... I've heard it all now.

If we put him on the market tomorrow we'd have most big clubs in Europe asking after him.
 
GaryLifo said:
Mainoo is the problem.... I've heard it all now.

If we put him on the market tomorrow we'd have most big clubs in Europe asking after him.
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They’re smarter than the rest of us…

Imagine posting that he’s the problem given our upturn since he came in, and after his last 3 games especially.
 
GaryLifo said:
Mainoo is the problem.... I've heard it all now.

If we put him on the market tomorrow we'd have most big clubs in Europe asking after him.
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Because most big clubs in Europe don’t play this basic PL football that exists here where the only thing anyone gives a feck about is ‘athleticism’. By the same token, most of the most impressive midfielders at top clubs in Europe would not be targeted by us for the PL. United would never buy a Vitinha or Pedri to come and play centre midfield for us. Because athleticism. Go and read people’s views on here about the prospect of signing Angelo Stiller, for example. It has been roundly rejected, and for one reason only.

I have no issue with Mainoo. But the clubs that play with Pedri and Vitinha have a different football philosophy to us, and most of the PL. We are all 4321 here. Those clubs prioritise control and playing 3 central midfielders, and even moving other players into that area to further outnumber opposition. The football played here is decided by who can run the hardest. I’ve said many times on here (in digust) that the PL has descended into cyborg wars. I’d love for Mainoo to replace Bruno in our XI and then a player like Kees Smit signed to play his current role, alongside another DM. Liverpool, as poor as they were in both boxes yesterday - passed rings around us for much of the game. Their game was not about big switches. The passes were all shorter, players were closer, and we were weaved through with movement. If we were this team, I’d want Mainoo in there.

This is part of the reason I want a different manager, I’ve always preferred a double 8 to a 4231 personally and would love us to pass and control in games. But it’s not our way, or something like that. The United way is basically everything happening very fast.
 
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Rozay said:
Because most big clubs in Europe don’t play this basic PL football that exists here where the only thing anyone gives a feck about is ‘athleticism’. By the same token, most of the most impressive midfielders at top clubs in Europe would not be targeted by us for the PL. United would never buy a Vitinha or Pedri to come and play centre midfield for us. Because athleticism. Go and read people’s views on here about the prospect of signing Angelo Stiller, for example. It has been roundly rejected, and for one reason only.

I have no issue with Mainoo. But the clubs that play with Pedri and Vitinha have a different football philosophy to us, and most of the PL. We are all 4321 here. Those clubs prioritise control and playing 3 central midfielders, and even moving other players into that area to further outnumber opposition. The football played here is decided by who can run the hardest. I’ve said many times on here (in digust) that the PL has descended into cyborg wars. I’d love for Mainoo to replace Bruno in our XI and then a player like Kees Smit signed to play his current role, alongside another DM. Liverpool, as poor as they were in both boxes yesterday - passed rings around us for much of the game. Their game was not about big switches. The passes were all shorter, players were closer, and we were weaved through with movement. If we were this team, I’d want Mainoo in there.

This is part of the reason I want a different manager, I’ve always preferred a double 8 to a 4231 personally and would love us to pass and control in games. But it’s not our way, or something like that. The United way is basically everything happening very fast.
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Vitinha is very athletic, similar to bernardo silva who is very popular and successful in the pl
 
Hammondo said:
Vitinha is very athletic, similar to bernardo silva who is very popular and successful in the pl
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I know what he is, but I don’t think he’s a profile that top PL clubs would want to spend big to come and do the role that he does in Paris. Bernardo Silva came to the PL as a 10, and was also converted to a CM by Guardiola - who sees football in a non-typical PL way.

In any case, Bernardo Silva can run a lot harder than Mainoo, which is still the point regarding Mainoo. If Mainoo could run like Silva, this whole DM pursuit would be a lot simpler I think.
 
Back to Baleba.
His speed and tackling could work well with Mainoo.
If we get another like fernandez to be the B2B then it could free up Bruno to play in the centre of a 433 or no.10 in a 4312.
 
GaryLifo said:
Mainoo is the problem.... I've heard it all now.

If we put him on the market tomorrow we'd have most big clubs in Europe asking after him.
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It’s absolutely bizarre. I have no idea why anyone thinks he can’t be part of our midfield long term
 
GaryLifo said:
Mainoo is the problem.... I've heard it all now.

If we put him on the market tomorrow we'd have most big clubs in Europe asking after him.
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And somehow a player that actually played like dogshite for a whole season is the one who will transform our midfield
 
People are fighting demons that aren’t there. Our ONE central midfielder is a gigantic issue and the TWO central midfielders we are signing MUST play beside the 21 year old.
 
Rozay said:
Because most big clubs in Europe don’t play this basic PL football that exists here where the only thing anyone gives a feck about is ‘athleticism’. By the same token, most of the most impressive midfielders at top clubs in Europe would not be targeted by us for the PL. United would never buy a Vitinha or Pedri to come and play centre midfield for us. Because athleticism. Go and read people’s views on here about the prospect of signing Angelo Stiller, for example. It has been roundly rejected, and for one reason only.

I have no issue with Mainoo. But the clubs that play with Pedri and Vitinha have a different football philosophy to us, and most of the PL. We are all 4321 here. Those clubs prioritise control and playing 3 central midfielders, and even moving other players into that area to further outnumber opposition. The football played here is decided by who can run the hardest. I’ve said many times on here (in digust) that the PL has descended into cyborg wars. I’d love for Mainoo to replace Bruno in our XI and then a player like Kees Smit signed to play his current role, alongside another DM. Liverpool, as poor as they were in both boxes yesterday - passed rings around us for much of the game. Their game was not about big switches. The passes were all shorter, players were closer, and we were weaved through with movement. If we were this team, I’d want Mainoo in there.

This is part of the reason I want a different manager, I’ve always preferred a double 8 to a 4231 personally and would love us to pass and control in games. But it’s not our way, or something like that. The United way is basically everything happening very fast.
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I actually think that before the two brainfarts early in the second that gifted Pool two goals, we comfortably controlled the game with and especially without the ball. Liverpool did nothing bar some neat passing around the halfway line. Then we mentally comlapsed before we managed to get back in and creates a couple of big chances; Casemiro should have scored. Did Liverpool really create much?

If that is your preferred football, do you prefer Wirtz to Bruno?

I honestly can’t stand controlling possession for the sake of it like LVG or Pep. It sucks the entertainment out of football. So there you are ; it’s all about preferences.
 
Rozay said:
I know what he is, but I don’t think he’s a profile that top PL clubs would want to spend big to come and do the role that he does in Paris. Bernardo Silva came to the PL as a 10, and was also converted to a CM by Guardiola - who sees football in a non-typical PL way.

In any case, Bernardo Silva can run a lot harder than Mainoo, which is still the point regarding Mainoo. If Mainoo could run like Silva, this whole DM pursuit would be a lot simpler I think.
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Where does this « he doesn’t run narrative » come from? Wasn’t he the player who covered the most ground in several consecutive games a few months ago?

Ive had a quick check at his Opta stats, and I don’t see a player that doesn’t run.
2nd most possessions won per 90, 2nd most passes per 90, 5th most progressive carries per 90 behind Amad and Cunha.

You make wild assumptions about Mainoo’s weaknesses while glossing over the fact that Baleba hasn’t had a good game in a year now.
 
Quite comforting the last page or so of this thread as seems lots of posters think baleba a bad signing...now seeing mainoo is the problem...crazy opinions....baleba, mainoo and fernandes would be an excellent midfield. Yes mainoo ismt fast coming back and neither is casimiro...both been excellent but liverpool exposed what has beem a problem for years here...baleba solves it...why is everyone obsessed with progressive defence splitting passers for am anchor man role...to compliment a fantastic young link up midfielder behind one of the most successful game chaning moment midfielders in the world..reminds me of the obsession replacing degea with a ball playing keeper...turned out well.
 
Rozay said:
Every footballer can ‘run’. Casemiro can ‘run’. The issue is that, like Mainoo, he cannot run fast enough. Once a player gets the other side of him, it’s a big problem.

He has excellent close control and can play one touch passing around his box as you said. We will need to ask ourselves whether that is sufficient or at a sufficient enough level to compensate for his inability to run fast enough, or to pass progressively enough.

Is there really no ‘neat and tidy’ we can get with either a better engine, or better passing? Mateus Fernandes and Alex Scott are just two examples of very good close control that comes without the liability of poor sprint power.

If Mainoo could run harder, so many people would not be against signing Adam Wharton for example. After all, he can come in and add the progressive passing Mainoo lacks. The obvious issue is that everyone knows that there would not be enough running power in such a partnership. Now we have Baleba, who has as much running power and duelling ability as you can ask for, yet people are concerned about whether a partnership between him and Mainoo can work because ‘who will progress the ball’. So I ask - which bit is Mainoo’s role? Goals? The odd dribble and layoff? I’m not sure it’s enough, and I think that would be more apparent if he were not one of our own.

So yes, in my personal view - Mainoo is the problem. He shouldn’t be sold or anything. But any mandate of ‘finding a partner for Mainoo’ complicates our midfield pursuit significantly, and limits us to profiles that don’t really exist.

I ask you, if Kante was available in his prime today and we were linked to him, how many of you would be satisfied of a potential partnership of him and Mainoo? I’ll then ask if Pirlo was available in his prime today, how many of you would be satisfied with a partnership of him and Mainoo? If the answer is ‘not many’ - I have just named the very best of the two common profiles of deep midfielders from the past 20-odd years. The problem obviously isn’t them. It seems that the only answer is then to go and find a Rodri who has the running AND the passing - which gives Mainoo the platform to do his dribbles and one touch. Good luck with that.

I think the very harsh truth is that we shouldn’t be building any midfield around Mainoo, as I have seen proposed in various quarters.
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I have seen some bad bad takes on this forum, this one is right up there with the worst of them. Jesus.
 
TsuWave said:
That second half should have shown people why we need a passer + Baleba
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Yeah that's why Tchouameni or this guy would need to be paired with someone like Stiller (yes I know about his lack of physicality) or Scott. I get the feeling we are looking for more athleticism than passing this summer though.
 
jesperjaap said:
Quite comforting the last page or so of this thread as seems lots of posters think baleba a bad signing...now seeing mainoo is the problem...crazy opinions....baleba, mainoo and fernandes would be an excellent midfield. Yes mainoo ismt fast coming back and neither is casimiro...both been excellent but liverpool exposed what has beem a problem for years here...baleba solves it...why is everyone obsessed with progressive defence splitting passers for am anchor man role...to compliment a fantastic young link up midfielder behind one of the most successful game chaning moment midfielders in the world..reminds me of the obsession replacing degea with a ball playing keeper...turned out well.
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If you can't already see why it's an issue for your two deep lying midfielders to rank 10th percentile and 11th percentile for progressive passing, there's no convincing you.
 
sp_cgb said:
Him and Fernandes are probably the most likely midfield signings for us this summer. I guess we'll try for Anderson and Tchouameni first though and then try to wrap this up, if they're too expensive/unavailable.

I'd take it to be honest. Both good players with the right profile and awesome potential.
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Yeah those two should be our top targets, so hope we roll out the red carpet for either. If it doesn't happen only then should we look at alternatives
Hanky panky said:
Tchouameni is also a decent header. Ability we are going to miss after Casemiro is gone. But i still can't see why Real would be ready to sell him. Has there even been any serious rumours about his potential transfer?
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Well Mitten really talked it up on TOTD podcast, however Whitwell hears he is going to stay at Real
 
GaryLifo said:
Mainoo is the problem.... I've heard it all now.

If we put him on the market tomorrow we'd have most big clubs in Europe asking after him.
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I don't think there would be any 'problem' with Mainoo in a team that stacks the midfield. Whether that's doing the obvious and playing an actual three man midfield, or perhaps doing tactical tweaks like having a winger or fullback invert and basically play as an extra midfielder, a central defender constantly stepping up and largely filling that role, etc. That would give Mainoo the platform to highlight his strengths while covering his weaknesses. So yes, plenty of big clubs would be interested.

In a team that plays a more classic 4231 that doesn't really do any of those things, that's where things start getting a bit more difficult. At least for now anyway; I have very high hopes for Mainoo in the long term as he continues to develop. But that is currently how we play and why it is difficult to find one player who could partner Mainoo who brings everything that we need. Players who are good enough defensively and athletically result in a midfield that as a whole doesn't provide enough control and creativity on the ball. Players who bring that control and playmaking ability generally result in a midfield that isn't strong enough defensively and on transition.

That's not to say Mainoo is a huge problem or anything. He should absolutely be playing his part and playing regularly. But we shouldn't be looking at him as a certain starter who we should build the team around, which is what some people seem to be saying. Ideally we bring in two midfielders who together provide a better partnership, but who can both also partner Mainoo based on form, opposition, etc. Then it's up to Mainoo to continue developing his game to ensure he becomes an automatic starter in the future. His last few games have already been a good step in that direction.
 
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Our midfield isn't the most athletic and such, no doubts about it, but I think people underrate how slow to cover ground Casemiro is. That makes the pitch bigger, as the gaps between players seem larger - and Mainoo not being the fastest gets amplified.

Now, Mainoo isn't the fastest midfielder either, but it's not a problem in isolation. It would be a problem if we signed a Wharton type or "senior age" midfielder, meaning a proper not very mobile player that NEEDS to be surrounded by legs.

Mainoo is a bit like Eriksen, he does a lot of good stuff but if you ask him to chase in defensive transition/recovery scenario, it's a flawed design. Baleba solves that problem.

So, language is important here. Mainoo isn't an issue, but if we're looking for balance in the defensive side of game, Baleba is the guy.

Then comes the "passing ability" topic, but this is a much more difficult discussion.
 
Bayern play with 2 CMs in Kimmich and Pavlovic. So there's a template there, and we probably should mimic their profile of midfielders.

One of the strongest Bayern team in living memory had Schweny and Martinez. Is it coincidence that their current CM profiles are similar??
 
jesperjaap said:
Quite comforting the last page or so of this thread as seems lots of posters think baleba a bad signing...now seeing mainoo is the problem...crazy opinions....baleba, mainoo and fernandes would be an excellent midfield. Yes mainoo ismt fast coming back and neither is casimiro...both been excellent but liverpool exposed what has beem a problem for years here...baleba solves it...why is everyone obsessed with progressive defence splitting passers for am anchor man role...to compliment a fantastic young link up midfielder behind one of the most successful game chaning moment midfielders in the world..reminds me of the obsession replacing degea with a ball playing keeper...turned out well.
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It would be better than we currently have, but I wouldn't say excellent.
 
Hammondo said:
It would be better than we currently have, but I wouldn't say excellent.
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I think it would be very good in the football we currently play, but we'd still lack the control and possession people are looking for in games. I think we'd need someone to who could make it stick up top and much better full backs.
 
Rossa said:
I actually think that before the two brainfarts early in the second that gifted Pool two goals, we comfortably controlled the game with and especially without the ball. Liverpool did nothing bar some neat passing around the halfway line. Then we mentally comlapsed before we managed to get back in and creates a couple of big chances; Casemiro should have scored. Did Liverpool really create much?

If that is your preferred football, do you prefer Wirtz to Bruno?

I honestly can’t stand controlling possession for the sake of it like LVG or Pep. It sucks the entertainment out of football. So there you are ; it’s all about preferences.
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I think Liverpool’s issue is that they were missing so much quality at the sharp end. If they had their best forwards, they could have scored several I think.

And possession is not really done for possession sake IMO. That is incredibly reductive. The teams I refer to often destroy teams by huge margins. I’d rather watch PSG play at their best than Arsenal any day, and I think they would beat anything the PL has playing their way, and they will create several chances and score a lot of goals doing so.

I agree that it is preference, and mine is for teams to pass the ball. I don’t see how teams moving the ball around at speed, with passing and movement, AND scoring 3 or 4 goals is boring football personally, but I do appreciate that it’s a common view on here. I recall people called Barcelona ‘boring’ when they were playing some of the best football ever witnessed 15 years ago.
 
Zed is not dead said:
Where does this « he doesn’t run narrative » come from? Wasn’t he the player who covered the most ground in several consecutive games a few months ago?

Ive had a quick check at his Opta stats, and I don’t see a player that doesn’t run.
2nd most possessions won per 90, 2nd most passes per 90, 5th most progressive carries per 90 behind Amad and Cunha.

You make wild assumptions about Mainoo’s weaknesses while glossing over the fact that Baleba hasn’t had a good game in a year now.
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Baleba had a good game 4 days ago.

And running and running fast enough are two very different things.
 
Rozay said:
Baleba had a good game 4 days ago.

And running and running fast enough are two very different things.
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And a good game against Chelsea. He's most definitely looking better.

I think your point about when people get beyond him was the most poignant. If you want to play higher, that's going to happen from time to time. He has got much better at getting his foot in recently, but when he was coming out of position in the second half and going higher up, along with Casemiro - that's when the issues started. Baleba's big strength is that recovery pace in midfield.
 
Dominos said:
If you can't already see why it's an issue for your two deep lying midfielders to rank 10th percentile and 11th percentile for progressive passing, there's no convincing you.
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Here we go another statman zzzzzz
 
IF we were adding him as the second midfielder to someone experienced like Tchouameni/Tonali or the top target in Anderson then would feel differently
 
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