Carlos Baleba

croadyman said:
IF we were adding him as the second midfielder to someone experienced like Tchouameni/Tonali or the top target in Anderson then would feel differently
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I think he's the backup option to those listed rather than an addition to. I think it will be very unlikely we reach Anderson's price tag, and it sounds like he wants City more anyhow. Tonali will be hard to prize away and will cost loads, the Tchouameni links stink of a new contract ploy imo.

Can see us ending up with Baleba and Fernandes if WH go down for around 120m, which is a risk given Casemiro is leaving. Don't love the idea of bringing in expensive midfield options that have limited European experience and - in Baleba's case - coming off a very underwhelming season. Wharton wouldn't work with Mainoo.
 
TsuWave said:
That second half should have shown people why we need a passer + Baleba
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100%
Baleba should and will probably be the first CM signing. We haven't been linked with many out and out number 6's. We desperately need someone with lots of pace, who can sit in front of the defence and basically be a destoryer. In turn it will allow our more creative players to be more creative.
croadyman said:
Yeah that's why Tchouameni or this guy would need to be paired with someone like Stiller (yes I know about his lack of physicality) or Scott. I get the feeling we are looking for more athleticism than passing this summer though.
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In the EPL you really do have to have physical abilities, unless your team is highly technical throughout like City.
Not sure Scott is good enough to boss our midfield.

Losing Casemiro, we really need to buy experience, because Maino is young, he needs an experienced partner.
We are going to struggle to replace Case, he is a def mid who does everything.
 
Red4Life_#7 said:
100%
Baleba should and will probably be the first CM signing. We haven't been linked with many out and out number 6's. We desperately need someone with lots of pace, who can sit in front of the defence and basically be a destoryer. In turn it will allow our more creative players to be more creative.

In the EPL you really do have to have physical abilities, unless your team is highly technical throughout like City.
Not sure Scott is good enough to boss our midfield.

Losing Casemiro, we really need to buy experience, because Maino is young, he needs an experienced partner.
We are going to struggle to replace Case, he is a def mid who does everything.
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That's why I want us to go all out for Tchouameni or Tonali because they have that level of experience
 
croadyman said:
That's why I want us to go all out for Tchouameni or Tonali because they have that level of experience
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Tchouameni definitely has it, he's been playing at the top level with a lot of pressure for a number of years.
 
jesperjaap said:
Here we go another statman zzzzzz
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Let's use our eyes instead. Do you think Mainoo and Baleba successfully pass the ball forward enough? Or do you simply believe your two midfielders not passing the ball forward doesn't matter?
 
I was all for Baleba last summer after seeing his athletism last season but now I'm not so sure? He has all the right physical attributes but his decision making and what seems to be a lack of focus has put me off now.
 
Rozay said:
Baleba had a good game 4 days ago.

And running and running fast enough are two very different things.
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The first one in a year, and it was nothing exceptional, just good, i expect much much more from a player sold as the key player who will solve all our issues
 
I still wouldn't mind him coming in. He just shouldn't be the "main" midfielder we buy this summer. With how this season went for him, that would be a potential disaster waiting to happen. Buying him as a second midfielder would afford him some time to adjust and wouldn't lump such huge expectations on him straight away.
Of course it all depends how much Brighton actually demand for him anyways. If they're really so delusional to still ask around £70-80m, then we should look elsewhere.
 
Zed is not dead said:
The first one in a year, and it was nothing exceptional, just good, i expect much much more from a player sold as the key player who will solve all our issues
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Nobody has sold him as that. That would be Elliott Anderson’s billing. He’s being sold as a good option for a position we are in the market for.
 
Munkehboi said:
I was all for Baleba last summer after seeing his athletism last season but now I'm not so sure? He has all the right physical attributes but his decision making and what seems to be a lack of focus has put me off now.
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He has more to his game than athleticism.
 
Rozay said:
I think Liverpool’s issue is that they were missing so much quality at the sharp end. If they had their best forwards, they could have scored several I think.

And possession is not really done for possession sake IMO. That is incredibly reductive. The teams I refer to often destroy teams by huge margins. I’d rather watch PSG play at their best than Arsenal any day, and I think they would beat anything the PL has playing their way, and they will create several chances and score a lot of goals doing so.

I agree that it is preference, and mine is for teams to pass the ball. I don’t see how teams moving the ball around at speed, with passing and movement, AND scoring 3 or 4 goals is boring football personally, but I do appreciate that it’s a common view on here. I recall people called Barcelona ‘boring’ when they were playing some of the best football ever witnessed 15 years ago.
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I think Barcelona were boring to watch, and I find City even at their best intolerable as entertainment. In terms of quality both teams were brilliant, but for entertainment, not for me.

Most of their possession play is not passing at speed. That happens at times, but most of their possession play time it’s recycling the ball.

I think PSG, from my limiting viewing, are much more progressive and penetrative than any Pep team.
 
Rossa said:
I think Barcelona were boring to watch, and I find City even at their best intolerable as entertainment. In terms of quality both teams were brilliant, but for entertainment, not for me.

Most of their possession play is not passing at speed. That happens at times, but most of their possession play time it’s recycling the ball.

I think PSG, from my limiting viewing, are much more progressive and penetrative than any Pep team.
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The ‘passing at speed’ bit is not just about chance creation. The beauty is in their ability to pass the ball around in the face of intense pressure. It’s beautiful to see, it takes extreme technique, movement, flicks, backheels etc in order to keep the ball.

I think most teams can’t do what they do simply because they are not as good as them. And ‘direct football’ is often cowardice disguised as bravery for me. Players are scared to keep the ball under pressure so they try and just play it in behind quickly, which gives the appearance of being more ambitious but it takes quality and courage to keep the ball when players are charging at you. I’m not talking about centre halves passing it side to side here. I imagine there are videos on YouTube of Barcelona general play at its best and it’s probably beautiful stuff.

Anyway, all opinions of course, but Barca at their best is comfortably the best football I’ve ever seen.
 
Rossa said:
I think Barcelona were boring to watch, and I find City even at their best intolerable as entertainment. In terms of quality both teams were brilliant, but for entertainment, not for me.

Most of their possession play is not passing at speed. That happens at times, but most of their possession play time it’s recycling the ball.

I think PSG, from my limiting viewing, are much more progressive and penetrative than any Pep team.
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That Barcelona team was on another planet to Pep’s city aesthetically. They constantly passed the ball around, one touch at high speed. Never seen anything like it.
 
sp_cgb said:
I still wouldn't mind him coming in. He just shouldn't be the "main" midfielder we buy this summer. With how this season went for him, that would be a potential disaster waiting to happen. Buying him as a second midfielder would afford him some time to adjust and wouldn't lump such huge expectations on him straight away.
Of course it all depends how much Brighton actually demand for him anyways. If they're really so delusional to still ask around £70-80m, then we should look elsewhere.
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Yeah really hope he's not the main midfielder signed
 
Agree on the fact that he can't be our first midfielder. Will be great as the back up no. 6 but if we can't get Anderson, we should go all out for tonali.
 
zenith said:
Agree on the fact that he can't be our first midfielder. Will be great as the back up no. 6 but if we can't get Anderson, we should go all out for tonali.
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Tchouameni then Tonali in my opinion, however gut feeling is we will end up coming back to this guy
 
zenith said:
Agree on the fact that he can't be our first midfielder. Will be great as the back up no. 6 but if we can't get Anderson, we should go all out for tonali.
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Tchouameni over Tonali every single day of the week, literally the only thing Tonali has over Tchouameni is that Tonali has experience in the PL but every other attribute Tchouameni is better than Tonali in.
 
My gut says Brighton will not sell for what we want to pay and this won't happen
 
Rossa said:
I think Barcelona were boring to watch, and I find City even at their best intolerable as entertainment. In terms of quality both teams were brilliant, but for entertainment, not for me.

Most of their possession play is not passing at speed. That happens at times, but most of their possession play time it’s recycling the ball.

I think PSG, from my limiting viewing, are much more progressive and penetrative than any Pep team.
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Psg are similar to city but with much better players.

Having the best midfield in the world really makes things easier and more progressive.
 
For me this signing all depends on price.

If he’s available for 50 million or less then I feel he is worth the risk.

Anymore than that and we should walk away.
 
Rozay said:
The ‘passing at speed’ bit is not just about chance creation. The beauty is in their ability to pass the ball around in the face of intense pressure. It’s beautiful to see, it takes extreme technique, movement, flicks, backheels etc in order to keep the ball.

I think most teams can’t do what they do simply because they are not as good as them. And ‘direct football’ is often cowardice disguised as bravery for me. Players are scared to keep the ball under pressure so they try and just play it in behind quickly, which gives the appearance of being more ambitious but it takes quality and courage to keep the ball when players are charging at you. I’m not talking about centre halves passing it side to side here. I imagine there are videos on YouTube of Barcelona general play at its best and it’s probably beautiful stuff.

Anyway, all opinions of course, but Barca at their best is comfortably the best football I’ve ever seen.
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I understand what you are saying, and I agree about the quality - it's truly something else.

I don't, however, agree about direct football being cowardice. It places great emphasis on timing and excecution. Ferguson's teams were brilliant at transitions as well as being able to control the ball, but Scholes' passing out to the wings or behind the defence is not cowardice, it's something very, very few are able to do - Xavi was not close to Scholes' long range passing for instance (far too slow and lofty in comparison).

I don't think a typical Leicester winning the league is the best brand of football. However, I've always enjoyed a typical Real Madrid style of football over Barcelona - a more direct approach with proper wingers that take on their players instead of the, imho, tiring passing back and forth. Again, not discussing quality, but purely from an entertainment value approach, which is very subjective.

As for the highlight reels, yes, the best interlinking play from Barcelona or the best City teams are spectacular, but 80-90% of the time, that't not what they were doing - they were passing it around in and around the half-way line, finding space, waiting for mistakes etc.
 
Hammondo said:
Psg are similar to city but with much better players.

Having the best midfield in the world really makes things easier and more progressive.
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Sure, but I also think that their attackers are more progressive and more interested in taking on their man than what City do - City this year with Doku and Semenyo are actually more direct.
 
Posh Red said:
That Barcelona team was on another planet to Pep’s city aesthetically. They constantly passed the ball around, one touch at high speed. Never seen anything like it.
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When you have Messi, Iniesta and Xavi dictating the show - three of the all time greats in their respective positions, then with Dani Alves being brilliant at what he did and Busquets being world class at what he did, they surely were able to play as they wanted. I don't agree that's what they did all match long - there was a lot of boring, repetitive stuff - but many here watched them more than I did, so I am not going to be too absolute here. City, on the other hand was and is a bore fest for me.
 
Rossa said:
Sure, but I also think that their attackers are more progressive and more interested in taking on their man than what City do - City this year with Doku and Semenyo are actually more direct.
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Yea I would say those 2 are more direct than psg attackers. City have struggled for good attacking players.
 
I have equal concerns for passing between Baleba and Tchouameni. Baleba is better at keeping the ball and avoiding press because he's a good ball carrier, while Tchouameni is just very solid defensively but offers very little in terms of ball progression. Baleba of course isn't on that level yet, but assuming optimistic scenario he's capable for the level we're aiming for in the next 2 seasons.

Also keep in mind Tchouameni is surrounded by much better players.
 
What's this idea that the defensive midfielder we're bringing in needs to be some passing genius. We don't struggle to progress the ball from midfield to attack under Carrick. We utilize a central overload playing short ranging passes.
Mainoo is usually the guy dropping deepest to pick the ball up and then you see a series of quick short passing interplay and we're in the final third. That's Mainoo strength and Carrick is utilizing it and it's been effective.
What we lack currently is Mobility, a DM who can handle space.
This would allow the front four to press higher without much fear the midfield would be overrun on the occasion the press is beaten. Of course if we're buying more than one midfielder then we should look into bringing another midfielder with a passing range. But right now what we're not always doing is press high because our midfield wouldn't be able to keeping up.
 
Trex said:
What's this idea that the defensive midfielder we're bringing in needs to be some passing genius. We don't struggle to progress the ball from midfield to attack under Carrick. We utilize a central overload playing short ranging passes.
Mainoo is usually the guy dropping deepest to pick the ball up and then you see a series of quick short passing interplay and we're in the final third. That's Mainoo strength and Carrick is utilizing it and it's been effective.
What we lack currently is Mobility, a DM who can handle space.
This would allow the front four to press higher without much fear the midfield would be overrun on the occasion the press is beaten. Of course if we're buying more than one midfielder then we should look into bringing another midfielder with a passing range. But right now what we're not always doing is press high because our midfield wouldn't be able to keeping up.
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Personally it's more we need to partner that CDM with someone who has the required passing ability
 
Trex said:
What's this idea that the defensive midfielder we're bringing in needs to be some passing genius. We don't struggle to progress the ball from midfield to attack under Carrick. We utilize a central overload playing short ranging passes.
Mainoo is usually the guy dropping deepest to pick the ball up and then you see a series of quick short passing interplay and we're in the final third. That's Mainoo strength and Carrick is utilizing it and it's been effective.
What we lack currently is Mobility, a DM who can handle space.
This would allow the front four to press higher without much fear the midfield would be overrun on the occasion the press is beaten. Of course if we're buying more than one midfielder then we should look into bringing another midfielder with a passing range. But right now what we're not always doing is press high because our midfield wouldn't be able to keeping up.
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Depends. In the modern football, having a DM that is just a destructive ball winner is quite limiting. The aim should be to either go for someone who is press resistant or someone who can build from the back while performing the role of a traditional DM. This is what sets the top team apart from the average ones and if we are spending around 100m might as well go for a long term solution.
 
Trex said:
What's this idea that the defensive midfielder we're bringing in needs to be some passing genius. We don't struggle to progress the ball from midfield to attack under Carrick. We utilize a central overload playing short ranging passes.
Mainoo is usually the guy dropping deepest to pick the ball up and then you see a series of quick short passing interplay and we're in the final third. That's Mainoo strength and Carrick is utilizing it and it's been effective.
What we lack currently is Mobility, a DM who can handle space.
This would allow the front four to press higher without much fear the midfield would be overrun on the occasion the press is beaten. Of course if we're buying more than one midfielder then we should look into bringing another midfielder with a passing range. But right now what we're not always doing is press high because our midfield wouldn't be able to keeping up.
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Correct indeed.
 
LukeTheRed said:
For me this signing all depends on price.

If he’s available for 50 million or less then I feel he is worth the risk.

Anymore than that and we should walk away.
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Yeah that would be my cutoff figure too
 
Trex said:
What's this idea that the defensive midfielder we're bringing in needs to be some passing genius. We don't struggle to progress the ball from midfield to attack under Carrick. We utilize a central overload playing short ranging passes.
Mainoo is usually the guy dropping deepest to pick the ball up and then you see a series of quick short passing interplay and we're in the final third. That's Mainoo strength and Carrick is utilizing it and it's been effective.
What we lack currently is Mobility, a DM who can handle space.
This would allow the front four to press higher without much fear the midfield would be overrun on the occasion the press is beaten. Of course if we're buying more than one midfielder then we should look into bringing another midfielder with a passing range. But right now what we're not always doing is press high because our midfield wouldn't be able to keeping up.
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Great post
 
Trex said:
What's this idea that the defensive midfielder we're bringing in needs to be some passing genius. We don't struggle to progress the ball from midfield to attack under Carrick. We utilize a central overload playing short ranging passes.
Mainoo is usually the guy dropping deepest to pick the ball up and then you see a series of quick short passing interplay and we're in the final third. That's Mainoo strength and Carrick is utilizing it and it's been effective.
What we lack currently is Mobility, a DM who can handle space.
This would allow the front four to press higher without much fear the midfield would be overrun on the occasion the press is beaten. Of course if we're buying more than one midfielder then we should look into bringing another midfielder with a passing range. But right now what we're not always doing is press high because our midfield wouldn't be able to keeping up.
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Ugarte is the perfect example that any type of midfielder needs to be comfortable with the ball.
Not necessarily a player with a great passing range, but you absolutely must be able to have a neat close control and accurate short passes.

We’ve seen for the better part of last decade our midfield unable to string 3 passes together either due to poor first touch or inaccurate short pass.

So no we don’t need our DM to be a passing genius, but the technical floor for any midfielder needs to be quite high if you want to play anything else than long balls.
 
Is Baleba not fairly decent on the ball (ignoring this season, at the start of which he had his head turned by United)?
 
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Posh Red said:
Is Baleba not fairly decent on the ball (ignoring this season, at the start of which he had his head turned by United, followed by the death of his mother)?
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Didn’t his mother pass away in 2023?
 
I think he is available for between £50-£65million this summer, I should think the line of thought from a United perspective will be while you are paying for potential, the market was set for Premiership proven players entering their peak with potentially another level to go to last year with Cunha and Mbuemo being around £60million. Both coming off of excellent years from established Premiership sides.

Baleba has upside potential to go beyond them, but has not performed to their level pre-United on a consistant basis. So I think United open at around £50mil, Brighton want something closer to £70mil and they end up at around £58mil+ anything from 5-7.5 mil in either easy add ons at the lower end or more difficult at the higher end.
 
Stobzilla said:
I think he is available for between £50-£65million this summer, I should think the line of thought from a United perspective will be while you are paying for potential, the market was set for Premiership proven players entering their peak with potentially another level to go to last year with Cunha and Mbuemo being around £60million. Both coming off of excellent years from established Premiership sides.

Baleba has upside potential to go beyond them, but has not performed to their level pre-United on a consistant basis. So I think United open at around £50mil, Brighton want something closer to £70mil and they end up at around £58mil+ anything from 5-7.5 mil in either easy add ons at the lower end or more difficult at the higher end.
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Will reiterate my stance that we should walk away if the total fee goes over £60m including addons
 
croadyman said:
Will reiterate my stance that we should walk away if the total fee goes over £60m including addons
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Fair, I can't say I agree, I think the potential we saw last year is worth the same kind of investment that we put into Cunha and Mbuemo and I say that knowing what the floor looks like also.
 
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