Carlos Baleba

[Isotope]

The drop off in performance is just staggering. Unless we find out the root cause, I prefer a safer choice.

 

[goldenboy]

Wharton and Baleba it is then

United "monitoring" a player means nothing.

United will be monitoring hundreds of players.

 

[Kayla40TS]

We clearly haven't learned our lesson, huh? Baleba has proven himself to be merely a one-season wonder. This season showed that, yet our board seems to have learned nothing…

So, just to be clear. The 22-year-old has proven he's a one-season wonder by having one down season (the season isn't even over but I guess one partial down season is more proof than a full excellent season). Also, the board that signed Lammens, Sesko, Cunha, and Mbeumo have proven they don't know what they are doing and have learned no lessons. I'd say... I disagree.

 

[goldenboy]

We clearly haven’t learned our lesson, huh? Baleba has proven himself to be merely a one-season wonder. This season showed that, yet our board seems to have learned nothing…

How about at least saving your annoyance until the board have actually gone and signed him?...

 

[The Boy]

Honestly, Zirkzee's quite a baller actually

I agree, I think he could be great and I'd like to see him get a proper run somewhere, but he's not what we need at Brighton right now and I wouldn't swap Baleba for a non priority position and 40 million quid!

 

[Andersons Dietician]

If I’m looking at our options I would probably break this in to 3 brackets,

Anderson
Bruno G
Wharton

Bracket 2

M.Fernandes

Bracket 3
Baleba
Tonali

Now I’m not going to pretend that I watch these guys every week but from what I have seen of skill sets that is where I would put them and honestly I would say we need the skill set from bracket 3 more than the others.

Not saying we don’t need the others in those brackets but feel like no matter what happens we need one of those or someone with that skill set.

I think people are over reacting to Balebas season. It’s not been at the level of last season but pretty sure he missed a good bit of their pre season and again when I watch him I look at the skill set and think we could do with some of that.

I’d imagine now 60 mil is probably a more realistic figure but if we could get him for 50 or 55 fantastic.

 

[sp_cgb]

If United can get Wharton and Baleba, that could be our midfield for the foreseeable future. I think they both would add different dimensions to the team and most likely would compliment each other quite well. Add Mainoo to that and either Ugarte or another cheap backup and we would have a decent midfield next season with a lot of room to grow still in the coming years.

I'm pretty much convinced we won't be signing any of these Newcastle players either. They would drag it out all summer as they did with Isak and even then someone like Tonali would cost way more than he's worth.
Fernandes from West Ham is a interesting choice, but isn't going to be as cheap as some seem to think. Good player though.

 

[Bwuk]

Depends on fee.

I think theres a top player there, but he's had a rubbish season. They can't be after 100m again.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

The below was the thoughts of @The Boy last summer.

"They're similar in the way they can anticipate play and intercept passes, break up play and tackle, but Baleba is more powerful and can break much more quickly with the ball, whereas Caicedo is a calmer more considered player and better passer. I would say Caicedo (remember he's had a few years longer in the prem) is the better DF and can orchestrate the game better from that position, but Baleba is a better transition player.

Chelsea fans like @WeePat could probably tell you more than me, but under Poch, Caicedo had more of a box to box role with Enzo Fernandez playing deeper, and he didn't play to his potential, whereas he fits much better into Maresca's style where he plays the deeper role and finds it easier to progress as there's generally more space for him to move into, I think at the moment Baleba is the other way around.

It may just be recency bias but for me at the moment Caicedo is the better player, he is that bit older and has more experience, but Baleba has the higher potential and ceiling."

Thanks. Potential sure.

Exceptional? Nothing above says his actual performances are worthy of such accolades.

 

[Ekeke]

I agree, I think he could be great and I'd like to see him get a proper run somewhere, but he's not what we need at Brighton right now and I wouldn't swap Baleba for a non priority position and 40 million quid!

So you think Zirkzee can come good, but you're happy relying on a 35 year old for all your goals? Striker is clearly a priority position. Whether Zirkzee would be an answer is the question

 

[dinostar77]

I think this could be quite smart by Utd, if they get this deal done before the WC. At least we will have one midfielder in the bag and the can't be held to ransom by clubs for the other harder targets to land i.e. Anderson, Wharton, Tonali etc.

My own personal guess at a fee, given his age and potential would be circa £60mil.

 

[King Eric 7]

For whatever reason, he has barely played a full game in the PL this season. Seems like a massive red flag to me and I'd avoid this signing and look elsewhere. The one match I did see him play live he seemed absolutely gassed and was subbed off.

 

[Wrecking ralf]

Didn't he play well at AFCON? It could just be an issue at Brighton causing his performance to drop off since last year. The ability is obviously there as he was everyone's first choice not too long ago

 

[USREDEVIL]

Then I saw him play
Now I’m not a Baleba
Not a trace
Off doubt in my mind

Then i saw your face...

 

[davidmichael]

Baleba for anything above £50 million based on this season would be hard to take in so if he can be got for £50 million and Wharton for anything below £75 million I’d be happy as it would also allow us to sign a third midfielder based on how much we spent on forwards last summer.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

Depends on fee.

I think theres a top player there, but he's had a rubbish season. They can't be after 100m again.

It depends on structure. I’m happy paying top dollar if he develops into a world class midfielder, so structure it accordingly. It’s £50m or whatever as a starting point, but load it with incentives. If he’s the player they think he’ll be, they’ll still get their money. If he’s not, we don’t get our pants pulled down too hard.

Edit: of course the price quoted in the press will be for what we’d pay if he’s a triple Balon d’Or and captains us to back to back trebles. Twas ever thus.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Didn't he play well at AFCON? It could just be an issue at Brighton causing his performance to drop off since last year. The ability is obviously there as he was everyone's first choice not too long ago

Everyone was convinced Januzaj’s ability was there too.

 

[Ekeke]

Baleba for anything above £50 million based on this season would be hard to take in so if he can be got for £50 million and Wharton for anything below £75 million I’d be happy as it would also allow us to sign a third midfielder based on how much we spent on forwards last summer.

Depends if we cut into future funds last summer. We didnt seem to have money on top of the Mbeumo and Cunha signings until Sesko looked like he might move to Arsenal, then we leapt into action. It may be that we spend less this summer despite getting into the champions league (hopefully). Especially if dont find a permanent transfer for Rashford, Zirkzee, Ugarte etc

 

[Red Rash]

If you consider that Casemiro and Ugarte leave then we arguably need 3 CMs next season assuming we make Champions League.

Since Anderson seems unlikely it could be Wharton, Baleba and one cheaper but more experienced midfielder. Along with Kobbie that should be enough but anything less and we are light in midfield. Potentially someone like Fletcher, Thwaites or Collyer make the step up as regular squad players.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Need to get a sure thing in such an important position. Baleba is not.

 

[WeePat]

The below was the thoughts of @The Boy last summer.

"They're similar in the way they can anticipate play and intercept passes, break up play and tackle, but Baleba is more powerful and can break much more quickly with the ball, whereas Caicedo is a calmer more considered player and better passer. I would say Caicedo (remember he's had a few years longer in the prem) is the better DF and can orchestrate the game better from that position, but Baleba is a better transition player.

Chelsea fans like @WeePat could probably tell you more than me, but under Poch, Caicedo had more of a box to box role with Enzo Fernandez playing deeper, and he didn't play to his potential, whereas he fits much better into Maresca's style where he plays the deeper role and finds it easier to progress as there's generally more space for him to move into, I think at the moment Baleba is the other way around.

It may just be recency bias but for me at the moment Caicedo is the better player, he is that bit older and has more experience, but Baleba has the higher potential and ceiling."

Looking back on this now @The Boy might have slightly overrated Baleba but it still feels like a fair enough assessment. I don't believe Baleba has higher potential or ceiling than Caicedo, that stuck out to me as a bit wild even back then, but the profile he describes and him being good in transitions still holds true despite an underwhelming season.

 

[Cee90]

He’s really not the one.

 

[goldenboy]

Didn't he play well at AFCON?

The typical standard of the Afcon is not that great.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

Avoid.

You can't perform as poor as he has for Brighton this season and still expect the big money move.

 

[stepic]

What happened to the thread from last summer?

 

[giggs-beckham]

It depends on structure. I’m happy paying top dollar if he develops into a world class midfielder, so structure it accordingly. It’s £50m or whatever as a starting point, but load it with incentives. If he’s the player they think he’ll be, they’ll still get their money. If he’s not, we don’t get our pants pulled down too hard.

Edit: of course the price quoted in the press will be for what we’d pay if he’s a triple Balon d’Or and captains us to back to back trebles. Twas ever thus.

I remember Sanchez wages on the back pages as giant gold print displaying £600,000pw!!!
Including every possible expenditure

 

[giggs-beckham]

He’s really not the one.

Give him a cookie to make him feel better

 

[Tallis]

I agree, I think he could be great and I'd like to see him get a proper run somewhere, but he's not what we need at Brighton right now and I wouldn't swap Baleba for a non priority position and 40 million quid!

Please save us from this terrible suspense and tell us how good or bad he has been recently. I watched the game against Liverpool and he did well enough.

 

[Zumbi]

We clearly haven’t learned our lesson, huh? Baleba has proven himself to be merely a one-season wonder. This season showed that, yet our board seems to have learned nothing…

He’s only 22. Having one bad season doesn’t prove he’s a one season wonder. Having one great season followed by lots of bad seasons would prove he’s a one season wonder. But that hasn’t happened yet.

 

[croadyman]

I prefer Adam Wharton to Elliot Anderson. especially with the price it would cost to get from Nottingham, and it seems he is off to Man City anyways.
Carlos Baleba is worth about 45-50m now. Anything more and we're being ripped off.
I just hope it doesn't mean we won't least try for a Mamadou Sangare or Ayyoub Bouaddi.

Well on the TOTD podcast Whitwell did suggest that we could possibly bring in 3 midfielders, so maybe the likes of those two or perhaps Stiller come into thinking. Getting it back on topic I would hope we sign someone who compliments his strengths.

 

[RedKnight88]

Well on the TOTD podcast Whitwell did suggest that we could possibly bring in 3 midfielders, so maybe the likes of those two or perhaps Stiller come into thinking. Getting it back on topic I would hope we sign someone who compliments his strengths.

Yeah, we really do need 3 Midfielders with Manual Ugarte being useless.
Angelo Stiller would be fine, I just hate players from Bundesliga, but that's just me. But he looks good.
On topic I just hope we manage to keep wages down too, if he does flop selling him wouldn't be issue. And the season he's having so far his agent can't be demanding £100,000 a week.

 

[sleepehead]

If United can get Wharton and Baleba, that could be our midfield for the foreseeable future. I think they both would add different dimensions to the team and most likely would compliment each other quite well. Add Mainoo to that and either Ugarte or another cheap backup and we would have a decent midfield next season with a lot of room to grow still in the coming years.

I'm pretty much convinced we won't be signing any of these Newcastle players either. They would drag it out all summer as they did with Isak and even then someone like Tonali would cost way more than he's worth.
Fernandes from West Ham is a interesting choice, but isn't going to be as cheap as some seem to think. Good player though.

I think I read somewhere recently where Newcastle wasn't going to do what happened with Isak again, I think basically Bruno and Tonali both are open to leaving but only 1 would be allowed to leave easily from Newcastle. Bruno might be looking more of a contract extension with a bump in salary because there's not many top teams who would want to risk buying a 28yr old CM, most teams don't want to spend that much money because of age.

To me I'd rather have Bruno G over Tonali because we still need creativity and then sign Baleba instead of Tonali only because Tonali will most likely go back to Italy sooner than later. I think Baleba can get back to those levels from last season, but I definitely think we turned his head.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I just think this would be a disastrous signing.

The passing metrics of Baleba this season posted in the FF are downright abysmal.

I get a player having a loss of form, but those metrics are just criminally bad.

 

[The Boy]

So you think Zirkzee can come good, but you're happy relying on a 35 year old for all your goals? Striker is clearly a priority position. Whether Zirkzee would be an answer is the question

We have more strikers than just Welbeck and I think Zirkzee is probably seen by most as a no.10 or a second striker, rather than an out and out striker which we don't need. An yes like every brighton fan I'd like to see another striker but I'm very happy with Welbeck and Tzimas and Kostoulos. Our biggest issue is probably right back.

 

[VP89]

We have more strikers than just Welbeck and I think Zirkzee is probably seen by most as a no.10 or a second striker, rather than an out and out striker which we don't need. An yes like every brighton fan I'd like to see another striker but I'm very happy with Welbeck and Tzimas and Kostoulos. Our biggest issue is probably right back.

What's your updated view on Baleba, if not given already? Can you evaluate his season for us, because he's not trusted to play as many minutes and seems to be worse?

 

[Hammondo]

Baleba for anything above £50 million based on this season would be hard to take in so if he can be got for £50 million and Wharton for anything below £75 million I’d be happy as it would also allow us to sign a third midfielder based on how much we spent on forwards last summer.

Wharton hasn't been £75m good, he's escaped criticism while being in a very poor performing midfield.

 

[SonOfFergie]

If I’m looking at our options I would probably break this in to 3 brackets,

Anderson
Bruno G
Wharton

Bracket 2

M.Fernandes

Bracket 3
Baleba
Tonali

Now I’m not going to pretend that I watch these guys every week but from what I have seen of skill sets that is where I would put them and honestly I would say we need the skill set from bracket 3 more than the others.

Not saying we don’t need the others in those brackets but feel like no matter what happens we need one of those or someone with that skill set.

I think people are over reacting to Balebas season. It’s not been at the level of last season but pretty sure he missed a good bit of their pre season and again when I watch him I look at the skill set and think we could do with some of that.

I’d imagine now 60 mil is probably a more realistic figure but if we could get him for 50 or 55 fantastic.

Seeing a lot of folks rating Wharton. I watched him a few times but I don't see anything special with him. He is solid with a lot of things but doesn't seem to have some area where he would really be outstanding a bit of a meh choice. Would rate him below Anderson and Bruno G. Those two both look the real deal.

 

[Bubz27]

Seeing a lot of folks rating Wharton. I watched him a few times but I don't see anything special with him. He is solid with a lot of things but doesn't seem to have some area where he would really be outstanding a bit of a meh choice. Would rate him below Anderson and Bruno G. Those two both look the real deal.

This could've been written about Carrick in June 2006.

 

[The Boy]

What's your updated view on Baleba, if not given already? Can you evaluate his season for us, because he's not trusted to play as many minutes and seems to be worse?

Definitely not nearly as good as last season. But he missed the whole of preseason with injury and then suffered a close family bereavement (might have been his mum I cant remember) and of course there was all th rumours around you. So unsurprisingly he struggled for the first half of the season massively. After AFCON where he did well, he began playing alot better for us, but still not upto last season's standards.

My thought is the kid is young, he had an amazing season and then things went wrong in football and personal life, he's being treated very carefully by the club who are slowly playing him back into form but at the same time trying to take any pressure off him, so I'm not sure it's about notb trusting him, it's about keeping him wrapped in cotton wool while he rediscovers his form.

I love him as a player and still think he has loads of potential, I'd happily keep him.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

Seeing a lot of folks rating Wharton. I watched him a few times but I don't see anything special with him. He is solid with a lot of things but doesn't seem to have some area where he would really be outstanding a bit of a meh choice. Would rate him below Anderson and Bruno G. Those two both look the real deal.

I like Wharton, he is very reminiscent of Carrick. My worry is that if we’re after a partner for Mainoo, he’s not ideal. Just don’t think we’d have enough legs in there.