Carragher article in The Telegraph

[Williams1960]

There's a lot on here backing jose however how many would truly truly truly have jose of pep?

If anyone would, id like to see them say it now and we can discuss this again in a year or two and see where it is at.

I would have preferred pep all day long and am gutted that ferguson tried to get him in but was unable to do so. He would have been perfect for us taking over from him as his drive and way of working was exactly what we needed.

We have hired three managers who are all not the Manchester United way. LVG may have done better had he arrived when he was younger.

As I said, if anyone would truly still prefer jose over pep, i'd like to hear it.

 

[Infordin]

Liverpool have a more balanced first 11? Seriously? They are ABYSMAL at the back.

Liverpool having a better squad than Utd is hilarious. Great selection of attacking talent but from their keeper-defenders and midfield pool I might only take Can as a squad option, maybe Robertson. Have to see how VVD looks.

My combined Liv-Utd XI looks something like this:

Lukaku
Mane - Coutinho - Salah
Pogba - Matic
Robertson - Bailly - VVD - Valencia
DDG​

That’s five Liverpool players

With that being said there are some close calls, like Martial vs Mane and Robertson vs Young. I’m also assuming that VVD will reach his 2016/17 level at Liverpool.

 

[Speedy30]

My combined Liv-Utd XI looks something like this:

Lukaku
Mane - Coutinho - Salah
Pogba - Matic
Robertson - Bailly - VVD - Valencia
DDG​

That’s five Liverpool players

With that being said there are some close calls, like Martial vs Mane and Robertson vs Young. I’m also assuming that VVD will reach his 2016/17 level at Liverpool.

Mine would be pretty similar if I was to choose a combined 11. The only player I may change is Firmino for Lukaku. I'm not questioning Lukaku's quality because I think he's a top player but Firmino helps bring the best out of the 3 behind so for that reason, I'd put him ahead.

 

[Theonas]

This is what really interests me in all the discussion. So, you practically have a manager who pretty much (if he doesn't implode and lose dressing room) will get you 80+ points in most league races. I think he even has potential to get 90+ if everything goes his way, but nevermind. How do you justify his sacking in that case? Because there are really very few ones out there for whom you know that can do a similar job in terms of getting you to that amount of points. Most of them in other clubs. Would you even consider sacking him if he doesn't lose the dressing room?

I personally thought that he shouldn't be sacked. My reasoning is any advantage that might be gained out of that will be outweighed by the issues that will come from yet more change. We are desperate for some continuity. I don't think managers themselves should be given time as a principle but I think clubs need to continuity of something, it could be personnel, club vision, or coaching staff. We had none of that for 4 years now. So for that I think he should stay and I would be very sceptical of too many playing personnel changes also.

Having said that, I would not exactly defend his position. I think it comes down to ambition, we know what he can achieve and we know very few have a proven record of doing the same. The question then is to do you accept that ceiling if it's a sure thing or do you target someone you judge to have the right profile who when marrying that profile with our finances has the potential to have a higher ceiling? The history of management not just in football is filled with examples of people who just needed the right platform and opportunity to show what they are capable of. So if the club does its homework and outlines a coherent strategy of how we want to play and goes for a manager with a lesser CV than Mourinho but with the profile to match that vision, I would be more than happy to take the risk and give it time.

The other thing Mourinho is that it's really hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. I honestly understand not minding the football and embracing the pragmatic style of his teams. What I don't understand is how can someone not find him utterly tiresome. The non stop whining, the passive aggressive attacks on everyone and everything, accusing players of not lack of commitment when they are injured and just the general misery and lack of joy he brings. It is not logical but it is hard to sympathise with him, especially when you know you're settling to begin with.

 

[Jim Beam]

I personally thought that he shouldn't be sacked. My reasoning is any advantage that might be gained out of that will be outweighed by the issues that will come from yet more change. We are desperate for some continuity. I don't think managers themselves should be given time as a principle but I think clubs need to continuity of something, it could be personnel, club vision, or coaching staff. We had none of that for 4 years now. So for that I think he should stay and I would be very sceptical of too many playing personnel changes also.

Same here. If there is no monumental collapse bearing in mind that he actually made a progress and where we were as a team just 2 seasons ago it would be extremely foolish to think about a change at this moment.

Having said that, I would not exactly defend his position. I think it comes down to ambition, we know what he can achieve and we know very few have a proven record of doing the same. The question then is to do you accept that ceiling if it's a sure thing or do you target someone you judge to have the right profile who when marrying that profile with our finances has the potential to have a higher ceiling? The history of management not just in football is filled with examples of people who just needed the right platform and opportunity to show what they are capable of. So if the club does its homework and outlines a coherent strategy of how we want to play and goes for a manager with a lesser CV than Mourinho but with the profile to match that vision, I would be more than happy to take the risk and give it time.

I think that we as a club must always go for the highest possible ceiling, even if it means to take a risk. Not Moyes kind of risk because that is sheer stupidity and one of the examples of the worst managerial decision for such a big organisation, not just football club. It was like there was absolutely no due diligence being performed before choosing him. Sticking with Jose is a risk in itself who could turn out worth it in the end. I'm coming back to that possible 90+ ceiling which in my opinion he still has.

But, I do understand what you essentially mean by this. The thing is why I'm also in pro-Jose camp is that I'm fairly certain that when and if we decide to take risk one day and offer manager job to someone who has enormous potential Mourinho will leave him pretty good squad. There is a myth about him leaving every team in shambles, but that is absolutely not true when you see what teams Ancelotti and Conte had behind him.

The other thing Mourinho is that it's really hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. I honestly understand not minding the football and embracing the pragmatic style of his teams. What I don't understand is how can someone not find him utterly tiresome. The non stop whining, the passive aggressive attacks on everyone and everything, accusing players of not lack of commitment when they are injured and just the general misery and lack of joy he brings. It is not logical but it is hard to sympathise with him, especially when you know you're settling to begin with.

He always whined and attacked, but definitely in a little bit more charming way. It could be an age thing or something because he is now just grumpy all the time. I know it's hard to imagine, but I do find it amusing in a way. He is basically now acting like Clint Eastwood character in every one of his last movies.
I also try to believe that's him being focused, but perhaps it has to do more with him feeling unappreciated by the press and colleagues at this moment in time considering everything he achieved in his managerial career.

 

[mike bird]

There's a lot on here backing jose however how many would truly truly truly have jose of pep?

If anyone would, id like to see them say it now and we can discuss this again in a year or two and see where it is at.

I would have preferred pep all day long and am gutted that ferguson tried to get him in but was unable to do so. He would have been perfect for us taking over from him as his drive and way of working was exactly what we needed.

We have hired three managers who are all not the Manchester United way. LVG may have done better had he arrived when he was younger.

As I said, if anyone would truly still prefer jose over pep, i'd like to hear it.

Jose all day long. Never liked the Pep Guardiola is my idol. Why do we have to play like Barcelona, tire the opponent to sleep with tiki taka and win games. I never really liked his Barcelona team, bar Messi. Cause if you take Messi out of the equation, you got nothing really, or to be more exact you got a Man Utd under LvG - you dont only put the opposite team to sleep, but also your fans.

Now, take KDB out of the equation and lets see how good of a team they are. Already teams have identified how to draw with them and I m sure its a matter of time before they identify how they will beat them. Shame that Crystal Palace did not win the game, thanks to that cnut that missed the penalty.

And yes, I still have hope that Man City will soon have a meltdown and will start dropping points. The question is, will anyone of the rest be strong enough to challenge them when they will?

 

[rampo]

My combined Liv-Utd XI looks something like this:

Lukaku
Mane - Coutinho - Salah
Pogba - Matic
Robertson - Bailly - VVD - Valencia
DDG​

That’s five Liverpool players

With that being said there are some close calls, like Martial vs Mane and Robertson vs Young. I’m also assuming that VVD will reach his 2016/17 level at Liverpool.

Pretty much tells us the areas we need reinforcements on priority

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

My combined Liv-Utd XI looks something like this:

Lukaku
Mane - Coutinho - Salah
Pogba - Matic
Robertson - Bailly - VVD - Valencia
DDG​

That’s five Liverpool players

With that being said there are some close calls, like Martial vs Mane and Robertson vs Young. I’m also assuming that VVD will reach his 2016/17 level at Liverpool.

Bailly is not better than Jones and I might even take Smalling higher for consistency and reliability.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Jose all day long. Never liked the Pep Guardiola is my idol. Why do we have to play like Barcelona, tire the opponent to sleep with tiki taka and win games. I never really liked his Barcelona team, bar Messi. Cause if you take Messi out of the equation, you got nothing really, or to be more exact you got a Man Utd under LvG - you dont only put the opposite team to sleep, but also your fans.

Now, take KDB out of the equation and lets see how good of a team they are. Already teams have identified how to draw with them and I m sure its a matter of time before they identify how they will beat them. Shame that Crystal Palace did not win the game, thanks to that cnut that missed the penalty.

And yes, I still have hope that Man City will soon have a meltdown and will start dropping points. The question is, will anyone of the rest be strong enough to challenge them when they will?

What I want us to inherit from Peps teams more than anything is the pressing intensity and front foot mentality no matter who you play.

I dont care as much for possesion football but if we did the two above id be happy. The longer United dont have the ball the harder it is for me to watch the games.

 

[Theonas]

He always whined and attacked, but definitely in a little bit more charming way. It could be an age thing or something because he is now just grumpy all the time. I know it's hard to imagine, but I do find it amusing in a way. He is basically now acting like Clint Eastwood character in every one of his last movies.
I also try to believe that's him being focused, but perhaps it has to do more with him feeling unappreciated by the press and colleagues at this moment in time considering everything he achieved in his managerial career.

I think we are on the same page concerning the rest of your post. I chuckled at the Clint Eastwood comparison because there is a real similarity that hadn't crossed my mind. I remember being in the minority in liking Mourinho during his first stint at Chelsea. Here was a rival manager calling us over privileged and getting preferential treatment from the refs and FA but I just couldn't hate him, he was just too witty and funny. I remember one particular scenario when Sir Alex referred to the money Chelsea spent and how money cannot get you everything, to which Mourinho responded with something like: "he is right, money is not everything. For example, my Porto team beat his team". He had that charisma about him that made him a real breath of fresh air.

The current version however is loathsome as far as I am concerned. I just cannot understand how low a person can get when they start referencing people's money and implying they are jealous. The other day he was implying that managers who celebrate wins are childish and how he apparently grew up now. He referenced to a lack of education about the Chelsea players and used Cristiano Ronaldo's background and upbringing to imply that he isn't educated enough. It's really low and crosses the line from cheeky to just loathsome. I think you are right that he feels under appreciated but he has to understand that when you make football as pragmatic and only results matter, of course people will admire you more than love you. Especially when there is someone else offering both. There is a really people still eulogize about the Brazil teams of the past. He must be smart enough to understand that's how football people will always judge the game. But anyway, as you say, he can leave a solid foundation after him so here's hoping he does that and he doesn't piss off too many people on the way.

 

[Ban]

There's a lot on here backing jose however how many would truly truly truly have jose of pep?

If anyone would, id like to see them say it now and we can discuss this again in a year or two and see where it is at.

I would have preferred pep all day long and am gutted that ferguson tried to get him in but was unable to do so. He would have been perfect for us taking over from him as his drive and way of working was exactly what we needed.

We have hired three managers who are all not the Manchester United way. LVG may have done better had he arrived when he was younger.

As I said, if anyone would truly still prefer jose over pep, i'd like to hear it.

What is a Manchester United way exactly?
If it's just attack attack attack it's pretty simplistic.

 

[Ban]

My combined Liv-Utd XI looks something like this:

Lukaku
Mane - Coutinho - Salah
Pogba - Matic
Robertson - Bailly - VVD - Valencia
DDG​

That’s five Liverpool players

With that being said there are some close calls, like Martial vs Mane and Robertson vs Young. I’m also assuming that VVD will reach his 2016/17 level at Liverpool.

SOrry but what is VVD doing there? He hasn't kicked a ball for Liverpool yet.

 

[mitchmouse]

on a slightly side issue: did anyone notice how much Carragher seemed to like us in his punditry on New Year's Day?

 

[cletus7]

on a slightly side issue: did anyone notice how much Carragher seemed to like us in his punditry on New Year's Day?

It was more a veiled dislike of Everton I’d say... sight of them being outplayed by us very welcome

 

[Jim Beam]

The current version however is loathsome as far as I am concerned. I just cannot understand how low a person can get when they start referencing people's money and implying they are jealous. The other day he was implying that managers who celebrate wins are childish and how he apparently grew up now. He referenced to a lack of education about the Chelsea players and used Cristiano Ronaldo's background and upbringing to imply that he isn't educated enough. It's really low and crosses the line from cheeky to just loathsome. I think you are right that he feels under appreciated but he has to understand that when you make football as pragmatic and only results matter, of course people will admire you more than love you. Especially when there is someone else offering both. There is a really people still eulogize about the Brazil teams of the past. He must be smart enough to understand that's how football people will always judge the game. But anyway, as you say, he can leave a solid foundation after him so here's hoping he does that and he doesn't piss off too many people on the way.

Yes, something definitely changed. People can say "that's Mourinho" for you, but there is an obvious difference between early version and this one. Remember him at the start of second Chelsea stint and that first press-conference where he stood with a silly smile, claiming he's "the happy one now" and end up fighting from the physios all the way to the board. It was almost a parody. The only way it could end up worse was, I suppose, if he ran over some player on his way home. Money comment didn't sit well with me at all btw.

But, "that's current Mourinho" as it seems. Let's just hope he can continue this progress and do more talking on the pitch. In that case, I can smile for him.

 

[Ødegaard]

Jamie Carragher sits down with an agenda and then tries to fit his narrative after he starts writing.


Flawed argument here, only explores one side. What about De Bruyne, D. Silva and Aguero? All of them considered top 10 players in the league. He mentions CBs but neglects to mention Kompany who when fit is always straight into the starting lineup.


And Guardiola bought a CB for 50m then next summer shattered the record for a full back only to break it again for another full back 10 days later. 100m for 2 full backs. Pogba's fee is already a "bargain" (brackets because it's still a lot of money) despite him joining less than 2 years ago.



A lot of fans would have swapped the two. But yea, doesn't matter that Sterling has been playing far longer than Rashford does it? Martial's record when he joined was "who is that?". Sané's reputation was "City has bought one of Germany's biggest talents". We did as well with Martial but he didn't have that reputation yet.

Shaw is a 30m full back (not a José purchased) that's pretty much been unfit the entire Mourinho tenure but Mendy gets the injury treatment from Carragher.


Mkhi? No. Some players don't adapt and work out. That happens all the time with transfers. Has Bernardo Silva improved under Pep? Lukaku has been here 6 months. How good was Sterling last season? Pogba has certainly improved and there's a massive difference when he's absent.


Plain bullshit from Carragher. Ederson was a fully established goalkeeper that played well in the CL prior season. Kyle Walker? Never heard of him before? Danilo had played for Porto and Real Madrid, what a shit player he must have been. Mendy was established but not Bernardo Silva? Claudio Bravo was the Barca keeper and Nolito a Spanish international that chose City over a Spanish giant.


Pure speculations. Mourinho always sell players that want to leave. He sold Mata and Lukaku as well. He sold Robben to Real. If players don't want to play for him he sells them. Do other managers do that? Yes, plenty do.


Hazard, Sanchez, D. Silva and Augero are the players that were talked about in the same ilk as De Bruyne is now. Hazard has been largely absent but he's up there with De Bruyne. Pogba could be as well but he's also been largely absent. Sanchez hasn't been as good and neither has Aguero and that leaves De Bruyne and D. Silva as the top players in the league. I'm not going to argue semantics like "Kane is up there", that's irrelevant. David Silva hasn't been revitalized, he's always been great and Pep did nothing special with him, he just got him better players to work off of on either side of him.

Delph and Otamendi would not be worse under Mourinho. Would Young and Valencia be the same players under Pep? What about Rojo or Jones? See how easy it is to turn it around.

Guardiola had to ship out ageing players? Jeez, must have been difficult to let the contracts run out like that. Rooney, Carrick, Schweinsteiger just left. Both the previous manager had to replace ageing players. That's what managers have to do in football. The ageing players Pep got rid off were full backs.

Such a shit article. He should go into politics with words like that. Populist nonsense.

Good post.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Seriously I would even prefer Klopp over Jose just for the type of the football he brings to the club, let alone Pep. I always wish to have Klopp to replace Wenger in arsenal. Of course arsenal board decided to stick with Wenger which was disappointing.

 

[OneFootball]

I actually think that Neville is quite a good pundit. They all spout crap from time to time standing in front of a microphone instead of a squad of players. Never liked Neville as a player as I thought that he heightened tensions and hatred between our Clubs but I take my hat off to him for giving up the studio and testing his wits with Valencia. Okay, it didn’t work out but he had the balls to do it.
As for Mourinho, I feel that he is more interested in his own CV than the Clubs he manages. He’s still a good manager but doesn’t seem to have the longitivtiy to put down roots and carry on a dynasty. Can’t see him being your manager in two years!!

 

[mike bird]

I actually think that Neville is quite a good pundit. They all spout crap from time to time standing in front of a microphone instead of a squad of players. Never liked Neville as a player as I thought that he heightened tensions and hatred between our Clubs but I take my hat off to him for giving up the studio and testing his wits with Valencia. Okay, it didn’t work out but he had the balls to do it.
As for Mourinho, I feel that he is more interested in his own CV than the Clubs he manages. He’s still a good manager but doesn’t seem to have the longitivtiy to put down roots and carry on a dynasty. Can’t see him being your manager in two years!!

Being a manager is just a job, would you agree?

If you work for a company and you try to build a career, don't you look on how to improve your CV through experience offered by the said job?
Do you really care for the company first and then your own development, or you will be honest and say that you look about your own betterment which in turn will also benefit the company?

Therefore, I think your statement that Jose is looking for himself first, is just naive. Everybody does it in their lives, especially today. It could be different in the old days where there was more sentiment involved. Now days everyone is looking for their own pocket. I m sure Klopp is working for free with liverpool cause he really likes you!

 

[XH6]

Jose all day long. Never liked the Pep Guardiola is my idol. Why do we have to play like Barcelona, tire the opponent to sleep with tiki taka and win games. I never really liked his Barcelona team, bar Messi. Cause if you take Messi out of the equation, you got nothing really, or to be more exact you got a Man Utd under LvG - you dont only put the opposite team to sleep, but also your fans.

Now, take KDB out of the equation and lets see how good of a team they are. Already teams have identified how to draw with them and I m sure its a matter of time before they identify how they will beat them. Shame that Crystal Palace did not win the game, thanks to that cnut that missed the penalty.

And yes, I still have hope that Man City will soon have a meltdown and will start dropping points. The question is, will anyone of the rest be strong enough to challenge them when they will?

Where do I start.....

1. Neither his Bayern or City teams are playing exactly like his Barcelona side did

2. City have the most possesion and goals scored by far, so I'm not where you're getting the idea of them being a dull team that puts people to sleep.

3. Messi is out of the equation now and his team are having the best start to a season in PL history. His Bayern side without Messi also had the longest win streak among the top five leagues.

4. Silva is just as important to their team as KDB and they beat Spurs 4-0 without him.

5. 2 draws in 22 games does not mean teams have figured out how to draw with them

 

[Williams1960]

What is a Manchester United way exactly?
If it's just attack attack attack it's pretty simplistic.

It's a variety of styles. Under ferguson there was real cohesion. Young players coming through, grafters, flair players etc.

We played great football and also had the ability to slow it down. We played to win almost every game and the players were given freedom.

Look at the last game alone. Mata, pog and martial looked a different class when you take the chains off.

Mata oozes quality. He would be awesome in a barca or city shirt. We just stifle him in a set role.

United under ferguson were rarely ever boring and always adapting. The United of the year and a half have been anything but.

The last game was a breath of fresh air. But it seemed it only happened because lukaku was injured. Otherwise I doubt jose would have played that way as lukaku is 'undroppable'.

 

[Williams1960]

Seriously I would even prefer Klopp over Jose just for the type of the football he brings to the club, let alone Pep. I always wish to have Klopp to replace Wenger in arsenal. Of course arsenal board decided to stick with Wenger which was disappointing.

Klopp and pep were both sounded out by the board and ferguson. Ferguson even praised klopp as he has a similar approach to himself.


"He has done a really good job and revived Liverpool's enthusiasm.
You can now well and truly sense that you have to count them in this year. You can see Klopp's dedication on the sideline, I'm convinced his work in training is similar. He's a strong personality. That's absolutely vital at a big club.

"I'm worried about him because the one thing United don't want is Liverpool to get above us."


And he was right, the scum finished above us last year. He's getting Liverpool to have that same togetherness feeling ferguson bought us. I can see totally why ferguson would want a klopp or pep at a club like United.

 

[Klopp_De_Klown]

scouse mouse trying to promote his own/anti united media, narrative.

Doubt me?

3 draws and we get bashed on every tv or newspaper. By every scorned prick, we stuffed over the years. We score 2 of the best goals of the week in a fairly good performance, Pogs and Lingard stick it to their detractors over last few days and which gets the big news or headlines? Our good or our bad.

We get trial by tv over Ash which is fair enough. Caught fair n square but its a nothing, kinda stuff that happens every corner. Do you think it deserved the 10 replays? Did you think it was as bad as Alli's tackles or he treated Ash? Was as much made of it?

We are United and we are the biggest and richest club in the world. We don't expect special treatment but we also don't deserve the extra special treatment that gets levelled at us because of it.

All I'm saying is don't buy into it. Well, I don't anyway!

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Seriously I would even prefer Klopp over Jose just for the type of the football he brings to the club, let alone Pep. I always wish to have Klopp to replace Wenger in arsenal. Of course arsenal board decided to stick with Wenger which was disappointing.

A manager who plays 'attractive' football but never wins anything?

Yet you're complaining that the Arsenal board stuck with Wenger...

I find it surreal how overrated Klopp is. I mean, this is his 3rd season and he's won feck all, won't win the PL or CL anytime soon and took over a team that finished 2nd the season previous.

Yet people rate him above José, who's been here a season less, won 2 trophies (1 of which Klopp was desperate to win the season before and failed) and is currently sat 2nd in the PL to Klopp's 4th placed Liverpool.

Very odd.

 

[Womp]

Klopp and pep were both sounded out by the board and ferguson. Ferguson even praised klopp as he has a similar approach to himself.


"He has done a really good job and revived Liverpool's enthusiasm.
You can now well and truly sense that you have to count them in this year. You can see Klopp's dedication on the sideline, I'm convinced his work in training is similar. He's a strong personality. That's absolutely vital at a big club.

"I'm worried about him because the one thing United don't want is Liverpool to get above us."


And he was right, the scum finished above us last year. He's getting Liverpool to have that same togetherness feeling ferguson bought us. I can see totally why ferguson would want a klopp or pep at a club like United.

He's been there three years, has spent decent money and has still won feck all. He's a notorious bottler in finals and nearly led Dortmund to relegation before leaving them (a point people always bring up about Jose at Chelsea, but coincidently forget when speaking about Klopp at Dortmund)

 

[Ban]

Klopp and pep were both sounded out by the board and ferguson. Ferguson even praised klopp as he has a similar approach to himself.


"He has done a really good job and revived Liverpool's enthusiasm.
You can now well and truly sense that you have to count them in this year. You can see Klopp's dedication on the sideline, I'm convinced his work in training is similar. He's a strong personality. That's absolutely vital at a big club.

"I'm worried about him because the one thing United don't want is Liverpool to get above us."


And he was right, the scum finished above us last year. He's getting Liverpool to have that same togetherness feeling ferguson bought us. I can see totally why ferguson would want a klopp or pep at a club like United.

Yet the only thing he has won is an Above United trophy.
As for United way,yeah we were mostly attractive but sometimes we were boring but grinded out the results like every big team does. There's a narrative we are boring every game under Jose which I don't agree with.
Everything from the past looks rosy now but it wasn't so black and white really.

 

[mike bird]

Where do I start.....

1. Neither his Bayern or City teams are playing exactly like his Barcelona side did

2. City have the most possesion and goals scored by far, so I'm not where you're getting the idea of them being a dull team that puts people to sleep.

3. Messi is out of the equation now and his team are having the best start to a season in PL history. His Bayern side without Messi also had the longest win streak among the top five leagues.

4. Silva is just as important to their team as KDB and they beat Spurs 4-0 without him.

5. 2 draws in 22 games does not mean teams have figured out how to draw with them

Where do I start

1. Bayern fans were happy to see the back of Pep, fact.

2. The president of Bayern said that his biggest mistake was firing Jupp and hiring Pep.

3. His Bayern team just won domestic titles, like always do, no matter who their manager is. Its like a monopoly, like Olympiacos in Greece and Celtic in Scotland.

4. Yes, without Messi they drew twice, once in Camp Nou.

5. 2 draws yes, but lately Man City were lucky. They call it the Sterling time, two last minute goals gave them two wins, while Crystal Palace failed to convert a penalty that could have won the game. If you don't see that teams have become better against them and that Man City struggles to win games, then go to specsavers. Yes, Watford was an easy win it seems, but they still managed a number of shots on target, and if their defense was remotely decent, they could have made a game out of it.

 

[Williams1960]

Where do I start

1. Bayern fans were happy to see the back of Pep, fact.

2. The president of Bayern said that his biggest mistake was firing Jupp and hiring Pep.

3. His Bayern team just won domestic titles, like always do, no matter who their manager is. Its like a monopoly, like Olympiacos in Greece and Celtic in Scotland.

4. Yes, without Messi they drew twice, once in Camp Nou.

5. 2 draws yes, but lately Man City were lucky. They call it the Sterling time, two last minute goals gave them two wins, while Crystal Palace failed to convert a penalty that could have won the game. If you don't see that teams have become better against them and that Man City struggles to win games, then go to specsavers. Yes, Watford was an easy win it seems, but they still managed a number of shots on target, and if their defense was remotely decent, they could have made a game out of it.

Where do I start with this!

If the last bit is true about city, then what the hell does it say about us!

Sometimes we just need to hold our hands up, stop living with red specs on and admit city look far superior to us in every department.

I suppose teams worked us out very early on then!?

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

There's a lot on here backing jose however how many would truly truly truly have jose of pep?

If anyone would, id like to see them say it now and we can discuss this again in a year or two and see where it is at.

I would have preferred pep all day long and am gutted that ferguson tried to get him in but was unable to do so. He would have been perfect for us taking over from him as his drive and way of working was exactly what we needed.

We have hired three managers who are all not the Manchester United way. LVG may have done better had he arrived when he was younger.

As I said, if anyone would truly still prefer jose over pep, i'd like to hear it.

Definitely Jose, and it's not even about results. I find very little joy in watching teams hog the ball. Didn't enjoy watching Pep's Barca, although I respect what they accomplished. Also under LVG I think I've watched all the possession I can handle in one lifetime.

 

[el3mel]

Klopp and pep were both sounded out by the board and ferguson. Ferguson even praised klopp as he has a similar approach to himself.


"He has done a really good job and revived Liverpool's enthusiasm.
You can now well and truly sense that you have to count them in this year. You can see Klopp's dedication on the sideline, I'm convinced his work in training is similar. He's a strong personality. That's absolutely vital at a big club.

"I'm worried about him because the one thing United don't want is Liverpool to get above us."


And he was right, the scum finished above us last year. He's getting Liverpool to have that same togetherness feeling ferguson bought us. I can see totally why ferguson would want a klopp or pep at a club like United.

SAF has talked well about Mourinho ( during his Chelsea crisis and here), LVG and even asked for patience on Moyes as well. It's not like he gave something exclusive for Klopp. He has been diplomatic in his responses since his retirement.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/english-football/2014/03/03/4657840/ferguson-urges-patience-with-moyes

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-united-fans-louis-van-gaal-sir-alex-ferguson

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38738147

 

[mike bird]

Where do I start with this!

If the last bit is true about city, then what the hell does it say about us!

Sometimes we just need to hold our hands up, stop living with red specs on and admit city look far superior to us in every department.

I suppose teams worked us out very early on then!?

There is no chance in hell I am going to admit Man City are better than us, even if they are 100 points ahead.

I hate Pep. End of story. Don't like him, not everyone needs to like whatever they serve us. He is a fraud. He has taken managerial posts that guaranteed titles. Have never took a challenge like Jose did with Inter.

I admire Klopp more than him. Klopp could have gone anywhere but he chose the minnows of Liverpool.

 

[SteveTheRed]

I think it's a little naïve to suggest that Pep improves players and Mourinho just wants to buy instant success.

Pep arguably has had a negative effect on the following city players; Aguero, Hart, Bravo, Yaya, Kompany. He is also brought in some players that are not exactly doing much; Bernardo Silva, Nolito, Stones, Danilo

But no one seems to mention that at all. Fair enough he deserves credit for improvements of his players but then so does Mourinho for Lingard, Fellaini, Young, Pogba, Zlatan etc.

 

[Coxy]

There is no chance in hell I am going to admit Man City are better than us, even if they are 100 points ahead.

I hate Pep. End of story. Don't like him, not everyone needs to like whatever they serve us. He is a fraud. He has taken managerial posts that guaranteed titles. Have never took a challenge like Jose did with Inter.

I admire Klopp more than him. Klopp could have gone anywhere but he chose the minnows of Liverpool.

Why not? They clearly are right now.

I think it's a little naïve to suggest that Pep improves players and Mourinho just wants to buy instant success.

Pep arguably has had a negative effect on the following city players; Aguero, Hart, Bravo, Yaya, Kompany. He is also brought in some players that are not exactly doing much; Bernardo Silva, Nolito, Stones, Danilo

But no one seems to mention that at all. Fair enough he deserves credit for improvements of his players but then so does Mourinho for Lingard, Fellaini, Young, Pogba, Zlatan etc.

Aguero has not had a negative effect at all. He's just being swapped with Jesus which is understandable. Kompany is old and fragile. And Stones has improved massively under Pep.

 

[LoneStar]

Carragher is just being a good reporter, just trying to pile the pressure on Mourinho. Why doesn’t he say that:

• Mourinho has brought the team from 6th place to 2nd place.
• Mourinho has to wait for Martial and Rashford to develop, as the club wants to continue developing youth.
• When Mourinho took over, United were playing god-awful uninspiring possession football.
• When Mourinho took over, we looked like a broken team, with Rooney as it’s ineffective centerpiece.
• Were it not for Man City having an exceptional year, we would be top of the table with tge points we have in most seasons.
• It is way more difficult to motivate players to play well for the PL when they know the trophy is effectively out if reach.

There is just no comparison; Mourinho has had much heavier lifting to do by far, compared to Pep. He should get more credit for what he has done so far.

BTW, I will not be surprised if we have a great run in the Champions League, perhaps to the Semifinals or Finals, as the team will be more motivated for that competition.

Don’t get this point at all. Why should we just ignore City, they have raised the bar in the PL, and have been utterly dominant and play good football. While we play drab football for the most part and are 2 points above Chelsea who have a game in hand.

I agree that Jose had the harder job out of the two, but I would never imagine that Pep would make City dominate the PL this way, they are 15 points above us ffs. I am a huge fan of Jose, but he looks miserable compared to his former self. Except for the Chelsea game last season, I'm yet to see a big game where we have dominated agaisnt a top 6 team.

Basically Pep has exceeded my expectations while Jose has been kind of disappointing, considering his previous records.

 

[Turnip]

Where do I start with this!

If the last bit is true about city, then what the hell does it say about us!

Sometimes we just need to hold our hands up, stop living with red specs on and admit city look far superior to us in every department.

I suppose teams worked us out very early on then!?

I don't think anyone is claiming we're the better team currently, but a lot of people are also pretty sick of people licking Pep and City's bumholes, especially on a United forum, and I can see why. The talk of them being one of the best teams of all time is nonsence, we're in second in this league and everyone would agree we're poor, so winning the league is not that special right now, for the last few years whichever big team is in form is the one that wins. Blow PSG, Real, Juve, Bayern, Barca etc. away in the CL, then I'd consider calling them "great", but they've not earned that title yet and based on current performances I wouldn't put money on them doing so. All that said, winning while not playing well is what wins you the title.

And they have been lucky recently, a few games they've had last minute equalisers (not that I'm gong to knock that, Fergie time and all that), and obviously there's the Palace game where they were lucky for a draw. Sure every team has bad games, even the best, but they've been noticeably increasingly frequent over the last month or so. I'm not saying they're going to throw the title away, but I'd be surprised to see them go the season unbeaten. I was also completely unimpressed with them against us, when we were really poor and they had all the possession they created less chances than Arsenal (before we were down to 10) did.

Also yes, it seems pretty obvious that we've been worked out, its the same as it was when we had LvG. When teams play us if they sit back we can't score, we neither have the personnel on the field or in the attacking tactics department to have any idea how to break down a stubborn, mediocre defense, and by now the whole league must have noticed that. And if you mark Pogba to the hilt we can't even get the ball out of midfield other than when he has his Houdini moments. We're as predictable to play against as we were 2 seasons ago and that must be common knowledge.

Of course now we're saying this they're going to make a miraculous come-back and win the rest of their games 5-0 and this post will be quoted and laughed at.

 

[cyril C]

Delph too. Not just about the players inherited but improving players bought as well. Last season Stones was a joke on here.

Oh, anyone forgotten about the goal keeper? 3 times to get it right.

 

[Stacks]

A manager who plays 'attractive' football but never wins anything?
Maybe he/she feels that with £150 million net transfers a season, he may be able to win something.
Yet you're complaining that the Arsenal board stuck with Wenger...

I find it surreal how overrated Klopp is. I mean, this is his 3rd season and he's won feck all, won't win the PL or CL anytime soon and took over a team that finished 2nd the season previous.
They lost Suarez who is head and shoulders above their entire squad.
Yet people rate him above José, who's been here a season less, won 2 trophies (1 of which Klopp was desperate to win the season before and failed) and is currently sat 2nd in the PL to Klopp's 4th placed Liverpool.

Very odd.

He's been there three years, has spent decent money and has still won feck all. He's a notorious bottler in finals and nearly led Dortmund to relegation before leaving them (a point people always bring up about Jose at Chelsea, but coincidently forget when speaking about Klopp at Dortmund)

Depends what you mean by decent. This is by far their biggest spending season and 2 of their big signings are yet to kick a ball. How much has he spent on their current 1st 11 so far?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Are people still thinking Mourinho an idiot for being cagey at Anfield with a less than full strength side? After seeing the best attacking Unit in the league get a pasting on that ground?

 

[Tapori]

Are people still thinking Mourinho an idiot for being cagey at Anfield with a less than full strength side? After seeing the best attacking Unit in the league get a pasting on that ground?

But Fergie would have never dun that
Dey was well in form to beat Liverpool
Mou dun understand da traditions of United attack.
etc etc
Every one wrong and completetly ignoring context of situation and of Fergie's time there.

 

[Foxbatt]

If we had gone and opened up at Anfield without Pogba they would have scored 4 goals past us. Yes we may have scored a couple too but we still would have lost like City did. I would rather we take a point than no points.