Carrick/McKenna upgrade?

[BusbyMalone]

Obviously, the focus is on the manager (rightly so), but these two have been first-team coaches for over 3 years now (and been around the club longer), and If you dip into the various performance threads on this site, many people (myself included) are basically complaining about the same things now that we were 3/4 years ago. While each manager has had his own style of play, the complaints about our inability to break down a deep-lying/organized defence are the same.

Our slow side-to-side passing, lack of penetration, and lack of imagination have been a constant for years. And while managers have come and gone, these two have remained. But why?

There’s a sense of inertia when it comes to these two. They’re here, but I’m not sure why.

Would you like to see us upgrade on them?

 

[Adnan]

We can bring in the best coaches in the world, but if they don't have the final say on how to approach the game, then it's pointless making the change. You either remove the whole coaching setup or change a negative mindset when approaching games to a positive one and play with risk.

 

[Foxbatt]

We can bring in the best coaches in the world, but if they don't have the final say on how to approach the game, then it's pointless making the change. You either remove the whole coaching setup or change a negative mindset when approaching games to a positive one and play with risk.

Yes because they at least are responsible for our set pieces.Ole says he leaves the coaching to them. Moving the ball around is also up to them. Brining on subs and team selection maybe out of their control but sure the coaching the players is on them.

 

[croadyman]

Both need either sending on a coaching course or better still replacing with people more competent and experienced

 

[Luke1995]

Both of them need to take a job in full-time management. That would do wonders for their confidence and general approach.

But I don't blame them for taking the opportunity United gave them. It must be a nice job.

 

[Pexbo]

Both of them need to take a job in full-time management. That would do wonders for their confidence and general approach.

But I don't blame them for taking the opportunity United gave them. It must be a nice job.

So weird how people try to talk as an authority on things they literally have zero clue about. What experience or knowledge do you have about Carrick and McKenna’s confidence and general approach?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

McKenna, I seem to recall reading was a very highly sought after and well respected up and coming coach within the game before he even came to United.
As for Carrick and Phelan who knows what their real input is but I find it hard to believe Ole is just like go do what you want lads. He’ll have given them what he wants and it’s up to them to translate that across to the players. Are they failing or is Oles mandate wrong or is it just the players not following instructions. No one knows, and it’s not like we really see what the backroom staff do to be able to say oh such and such at Everton does an amazing job putting out the cones. Sign him up on a free. We can only go off of what we read or have heard from those closer to the club.

 

[Zoo]

Both need either sending on a coaching course or better still replacing with people more competent and experienced

You have no idea how competent they are.

 

[owlo]

It's always a decision for the manager to appoint the coaches he has confidence in. You can't make a discrete determination between the [coaching] team and the manager.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Talking about McKenna and Carrick is a Redcafe posters way of clutching at straws, you have no idea what they do and how well they do it. All we know is Ole and Mourinho rate them both.

All we can do is criticise the Glazers or Ole from our position.

 

[Adnan]

Yes because they at least are responsible for our set pieces.Ole says he leaves the coaching to them. Moving the ball around is also up to them. Brining on subs and team selection maybe out of their control but sure the coaching the players is on them.

Moving the ball how and where isn't upto the coaches. McKenna is a very attack minded coach who would set his teams to play in a imposing manner, but if Solskjaer says I want my defense to play deeper with two combative midfielders infront defending the zones, then the coaches can only work with what they've got.

You either remove the lot and bring in a experience coach or Ole needs to change his mindset and not lose his nerve after a 1-6 thrashing by Spurs.

 

[pascell]

Talking about McKenna and Carrick is a Redcafe posters way of clutching at straws, you have no idea what they do and how well they do it. All we know is Ole and Mourinho rate them both.

All we can do is criticise the Glazers or Ole from our position.

Weren't the pair forced upon Jose? Sure he said he couldn't bring in his whole backroom staff.

Instead or replacing them, I think we should be adding to them, we most definitely need a defensive coach.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

We can bring in the best coaches in the world, but if they don't have the final say on how to approach the game, then it's pointless making the change. You either remove the whole coaching setup or change a negative mindset when approaching games to a positive one and play with risk.

Imagine an additional for defensive coach who knows how to coach players defending set pieces and crosses. We might see less conceded goals in set pieces and crosses result in more winning games. It’s not pointless making the change.

 

[Skills]

Weren't the pair forced upon Jose? Sure he said he couldn't bring in his whole backroom staff.

Instead or replacing them, I think we should be adding to them, we most definitely need a defensive coach.

What?

Carrick & Mckenna only joined the coaching staff at the end of Mourinho's second season.

 

[The Cat]

It's our biggest weakness bar none.

 

[Adnan]

Imagine an additional for defensive coach who knows how to coach players defending set pieces. We might see less conceded goals in set pieces result in more winning games. It’s not pointless making the change.

I never said it was pointless making a change. We can bring in a experienced head coach who has far more knowledge on defensive and offensive stŕucture, rather than placing a plaster on the wound temporarily.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I mean at this point, why wouldn't we upgrade on the manager too?

He has the final say in everything pertaining to the squad.

 

[pascell]

What?

Carrick & Mckenna only joined the coaching staff at the end of Mourinho's second season.

Maybe I'm wrong

 

[Skills]

I mean at this point, why wouldn't we upgrade on the manager too?

He has the final say in everything pertaining to the squad.

Because the number of trophies you win, gets multiplied by the managers tenure in years.

It'll all be worth it when we win the league cup in Ole's 10th season, and it will count for 10!

 

[Champagne Football]

Nonsense thread. Losing Harry Maguire was always going to bring a nervousness to our defense and midfield in the final. We saw what happened to Liverpool when they lost VVD. Was it 6 home games in a row they lost?

We need more creativity from central midfield. If we signed Marcos Llorent tomorrow, then everyone would be saying how Carrick has transformed our central midfield. Only so much you can do to develop limited players like Fred and McT. It's a case of whether our summer targets will be available or not. We've been interested in bringing in a central midfielder for a few seasons now, but there's no point signing someone average if our main targets are not available. Better to wait a year, or develop some kids.

It could be that Ole see's a Garner and McT combo in the double pivot as the way forward.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Because the number of trophies you win, gets multiplied by the managers tenure in years.

It'll all be worth it when we win the league cup in Ole's 10th season, and it will count for 10!

Managers at United need 3-4 seasons before they can compete apparently too.

Everywhere else, they'll put their imprint on the team and win trophies.

I mean there's people on this forum who think Ole is a better manager than Conte now, so that tells you everything you need to know.

The club and its fans are so hellbent on another SAF-like figure at the club, it completely destroys any sense of logic.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Was thinking something similar myself. If we do move Ole on it would be a real shame to lose his obvious man management skills. All those comebacks show players who would run through walls for him. A rare quality. What if we somehow unearthed Ole’s Carlos Queroz? A proper nerdy coach and tactician who could look after all the details (like fecking telling Bruno we should take the first penalty!) while Ole looks after the players mentality.

 

[Bastian]

We can bring in the best coaches in the world, but if they don't have the final say on how to approach the game, then it's pointless making the change. You either remove the whole coaching setup or change a negative mindset when approaching games to a positive one and play with risk.

If we were to bring in some best in class coaches it would dramatically impact the team. Could you seriously imagine Ole having some outstanding coaches of much higher pedigree than himself and ignoring their potential to improve his side and his results? The question for me in that scenario, is whether Ole would feel comfortable/pressured having that kind of a setup where it's not people he knows already, and mainly younger and less experienced.

Seems pretty obvious that we need to address the coaching setup, and I'm not thereby saying Carrick or McKenna need to go, not at all. I'd keep them on, but add some bona fide top coaches, addressing our set pieces (especially defensive set pieces, and throw-ins), our tempo and ability in the final third, and really challenging our players. And, where needed, challenging Ole's ideas because he would benefit from it. SAF kept learning and challenged himself by freshening up his coaching staff.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I never said it was pointless making a change. We can bring in a experienced head coach who has far more knowledge on defensive and offensive stŕucture, rather than placing a plaster on the wound temporarily.

Yes you did.

Fixing or changing one aspect is easier than do on multiple ones. Finding specialist on one aspect is probably easier than finding someone who does multiple aspects. You are not taking this into account at all.

If we try to improve on specific area especially defending set pieces and crosses, imagine how much losses and draws we could avoid if we can defend set pieces and crosses this season?

We can bring in the best coaches in the world, but if they don't have the final say on how to approach the game, then it's pointless making the change. You either remove the whole coaching setup or change a negative mindset when approaching games to a positive one and play with risk.

 

[Adnan]

Yes you did.

Fixing or changing one aspect is easier than do on multiple ones. Finding specialist on one aspect is probably easier than finding someone who does multiple aspects. You are not taking this into account at all.

If we try to improve on specific area especially defending set pieces and crosses, imagine how much losses and draws we could avoid if we can defend set pieces and crosses this season?

We don't need one aspect fixing but multiple ones. It's not just defensive structure that needs fixing but the offensive one too. And all it needs is one guy to come in, who could fix and it doesn't even have to be a household name.

 

[el3mel]

I would like one day to read an insight into what these guys actually do. Particularly Carrick, really want to know what's his role in the team.

 

[ray24]

The best coaches are the ones managing teams, so you won't get the best coach to support Ole.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The best coaches are the ones managing teams, so you won't get the best coach to support Ole.

Nonsense, there are plenty of quality coaches who don't necessarily make great managers on their own.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

We don't need one aspect fixing but multiple ones. It's not just defensive structure that needs fixing but the offensive one too. And all it needs is one guy to come in, who could fix and it doesn't even have to be a household name.

Easy to say, one guy who does everything. May be we should find a player who does everything too.

 

[RedDevil@84]

The upgrades over Carrick/McKenna may not want to work under Ole

 

[Adnan]

.

Easy to say, one guy who does everything. May be we should find a player who does everything too.

One guy doesn't do everything you numpty. One guy comes in as the head coach, with his own back room staff who specialise in different departments. But the head coach also has the ability to coach to a high level.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

What is an upgrade exactly?

We got McClaren from Derby and didn’t lose a match after he was appointed that season.
Carlos was considered a good coach but no one heard of him till he arrived.
They both had up and down careers as head coaches.
Who knows.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

.
One guy doesn't do everything you numpty. One guy comes in as the head coach, with his own back room staff who specialise in different departments. But the head coach also has the ability to coach to a high level.

Why don’t you make it straight forward instead of acting smartass. Changing manager or no. Because what you are saying is like changing the manager not just the whole coaches.

 

[ray24]

Nonsense, there are plenty of quality coaches who don't necessarily make great managers on their own.

But not the best coaches.

 

[mu4c_20le]

But not the best coaches.

Probably. I think the idea is to find a good tactician to compliment him, not to take over the job when things go bad.

 

[Adnan]

Why don’t you make it straight forward instead of acting smartass. Changing manager or no. Because what you are saying is like changing the manager.

I made it pretty clear in my OP, which you responded to, that you either change the whole coaching staff or change mindset from a negative mindset to a positive one. This team can't consistently play offensively structured football so it might be for the best to bring in a Head Coach who can implement such a structure.

 

[Adnan]

But not the best coaches.

Like Steve McClaren and Carlos Queiroz?

 

[BusbyMalone]

Talking about McKenna and Carrick is a Redcafe posters way of clutching at straws, you have no idea what they do and how well they do it. All we know is Ole and Mourinho rate them both.

All we can do is criticise the Glazers or Ole from our position.

I don't profess to know what they do and how they do it. I'm simply stating that managers get the brunt of it (as they always do), but the problems we have, we've had for some time. Considering Jose and Ole are both managers who are said to leave it up to the coaches, and these two coaches were/are working under said managers, I just thought it was a pertinent question to ask. Ultimately, as fans, we can only comment on what we see on the pitch and we're seeing the same failings, more or less, that we've been seeing for a few years now.

Don't really see it as clutching at straws. Wasn't meant to come across at that, anyway.

 

[ray24]

Like Steve McClaren and Carlos Queiroz?

Outcoached by Pep Guardiola, Bielsa and etc.

 

[Cman]

Yeah I’ve said in another thread that we should be looking to be improving our coaching list as well as our playing list. Weather that’s replacing somebody or just bringing in a new face or two I don’t know. But a blind man can see we can do with improvements in our set up on and off the field.