Carrick/McKenna upgrade?

[rimaldo]

change is unsettling for most people. multi-millionaire footballers are no exception. in fact, wholesale changes tend to have a negative effect rather than a positive one. to that extent we should look to ensure any change is almost imperceptible to the naked eye.

to that extent both mckenna and carrick should be replaced with paul mckenna and john mccririck. paul mckenna can hypnotise the players into thinking they are not shit and carrick is so forgettable that none of the players will notice he has been replaced with a 2 year old corpse with a similar sounding name.

cl glory awaits.

 

[croadyman]

Look if Ole isn't willing to get rid of these two completely then at least look to actually add something to the team because it's so badly lacking experience particularly in the defensive side and maybe bring in a specialist for set pieces too

 

[captain666]

We desperately need to sign a couple of Continental coaches to give us some nous and guile on the pitch.Certainly an Italian for defence and a Dutchman for offence would be my idea.

 

[stevoc]

We desperately need to sign a couple of Continental coaches to give us some nous and guile on the pitch.Certainly an Italian for defence and a Dutchman for offence would be my idea.

Does it matter if they're any good or is just being Italian and Dutch enough?

 

[TheReligion]

We desperately need to sign a couple of Continental coaches to give us some nous and guile on the pitch.Certainly an Italian for defence and a Dutchman for offence would be my idea.

Yes this sounds good. Can we keep an Englishman though to get everyone out on the piss together and create unwanted media attention? Character building.

 

[golden_blunder]

Does it matter if they're any good or is just being Italian and Dutch enough?

Maybe Steve mcclaren with his Dutch accent will suffice for him

 

[captain666]

Maybe Steve mcclaren with his Dutch accent will suffice for him

Check McClarens record at United before he spoke Dutch

 

[golden_blunder]

Check McClarens record at United before he spoke Dutch

You’re missing my point. Mcclaren was a great coach at United. Very on point.
Bud you said “get an Italian for defence and a Dutch man for offence”. There are more nationalities out there for a start, secondly do we just hire an Italian off the street as long as he speaks Italian?
put some context in your posts man

 

[meamth]

Bottom-line is, nobody in this forum knows how competent Carrick/McKenna is, a bit daft to even discuss this.

 

[red woppit]

All that's needed, in my opinion, is an experienced defence minded coach. Our inability to deal with set pieces adequately, and sometimes look like headless chickens when face with a quick counter attack shows lack of understanding.
As far as I'm aware, none of the current coaches played in a defensive role, so may not understand what is required.
I think we still need an organisational defender as CB, not sure that Maguire has that ability, but is our main CB at the moment.

 

[Judas]

Bottom-line is, nobody in this forum knows how competent Carrick/McKenna is, a bit daft to even discuss this.

Of course not, we've no clue, we can only judge by what we see in the 90 minutes of football every week and there's massive glaring issues with how this team plays the game. It's not unreasonable to ask questions of the literal people hired to coach, is it? Otherwise who can you ask questions of?

A lot on here is daft to discuss if we only were allowed to discuss things we're certain of.

 

[Roboc7]

It’s bizarre how much stick these two get, maybe they are not good enough but if the manager doesn’t have a clear direction it’s not really going to make a huge difference who the coaches are, will just be more of the same.

 

[Mainoldo]

Why would a good coach want to work under someone he will quickly see is inferior to him. When in history has that happened?

 

[Judas]

Why would a good coach want to work under someone he will quickly see is inferior to him. When in history has that happened?

Arteta and Pep. nibble nibble

 

[Adisa]

Unless we know the dynamics of our coaching staff, I think it is unwise to be asking for improvements on any of Carrick, McKenna etc.

 

[KikiDaKats]

@Someone I seem to agree with inclusion of extra coaching expertise in that coaching set up. I’d like to see a top South American or Italian or Portuguese coach. Some one from a completely different footballing culture like we had with Quiroz. He was not generally accepted by players at the start but a few shake up which meant the players knew SAF meant business.
Carrick, McKenna and Phelan all are from the same school and it doesn’t give us variety. Even Ole to me subscribed to that same school, considering where he developed as a player. These little things don’t look much but it’s a game of fine margins and every advantage to make a team unpredictable should be welcomed.
We are currently the most British in the way we play ( nothing wrong with that till everyone knows how to stop you) and it’s not a good thing especially when you have loads of players from different background. How do you piece all their cultures to a Unique brand suited to all.
I said S American they are very similar to Africans in what they appreciate in football with a great understanding of Spanish and Italian football. Portuguese coaches tend to carry such understanding as well. Italians maybe I have a believe they grow up looking at football as a puzzle not a quick romp.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Set pieces coach is needed for sure. That's been the most criminal part of our season.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

Set pieces coach is needed for sure. That's been the most criminal part of our season.

Yes this clearly requires a specialist bringing in because there are no signs of improvement and it is purely a coaching issue. Both ends of the pitch we are poor.

 

[stevoc]

Maybe Steve mcclaren with his Dutch accent will suffice for him

Yeah he's coached in Holland so he's bound to know more about the offensive side of the game than someone who's coached only in England.

 

[Sky1981]

Look if Ole isn't willing to get rid of these two completely then at least look to actually add something to the team because it's so badly lacking experience particularly in the defensive side and maybe bring in a specialist for set pieces too

Coaches doesnt come with stats like in FM.

It takes a more intelligent man to determine what's a good coach and who's who.

If I'm the manager i could have listened to paul ince and think gee....that's awesome, brilliant. Why haven't i think of that.

People say X is good. But it's all nuanced. What are is he good at? Does his inputs fits well with the current setup? Does his suggestion might actually works in this league? How far should i trust him? Should we just give him the key and the steering wheel? At what point should we veto his input?

You need to be smarter than your assman to properly utilize him. At least wise enough to know which is which

 

[golden_blunder]

Bottom-line is, nobody in this forum knows how competent Carrick/McKenna is, a bit daft to even discuss this.

What does phelan do?

 

[Foxbatt]

@Someone I seem to agree with inclusion of extra coaching expertise in that coaching set up. I’d like to see a top South American or Italian or Portuguese coach. Some one from a completely different footballing culture like we had with Quiroz. He was not generally accepted by players at the start but a few shake up which meant the players knew SAF meant business.
Carrick, McKenna and Phelan all are from the same school and it doesn’t give us variety. Even Ole to me subscribed to that same school, considering where he developed as a player. These little things don’t look much but it’s a game of fine margins and every advantage to make a team unpredictable should be welcomed.
We are currently the most British in the way we play ( nothing wrong with that till everyone knows how to stop you) and it’s not a good thing especially when you have loads of players from different background. How do you piece all their cultures to a Unique brand suited to all.
I said S American they are very similar to Africans in what they appreciate in football with a great understanding of Spanish and Italian football. Portuguese coaches tend to carry such understanding as well. Italians maybe I have a believe they grow up looking at football as a puzzle not a quick romp.

I wonder if most people here have seen England play live in the 70s 80s? England starts at 90 mph and overwhelm most countries until they meet the very best countries who simply keep the ball and out pass England. I remember Gullit saying that when he joined Chelsea he started as a libero and there was a high ball and he controlled on his chest and brought the ball down and passed in someone else. He kept doing this and Hoddle told him at the end of the game, that he knows Gullit can do it but please don't do it as it is stressing out his team mates and the other coaches.
Thats why as you say we need different perspective of coaching.

 

[elmo]

McKenna, I seem to recall reading was a very highly sought after and well respected up and coming coach within the game before he even came to United.
As for Carrick and Phelan who knows what their real input is but I find it hard to believe Ole is just like go do what you want lads. He’ll have given them what he wants and it’s up to them to translate that across to the players. Are they failing or is Oles mandate wrong or is it just the players not following instructions. No one knows, and it’s not like we really see what the backroom staff do to be able to say oh such and such at Everton does an amazing job putting out the cones. Sign him up on a free. We can only go off of what we read or have heard from those closer to the club.

I thought it was only at the under 18s level, and we somehow fast tracked him all the way to being part of the coaching staff for the first team.

 

[28gunsalute]

Bottom-line is, nobody in this forum knows how competent Carrick/McKenna is, a bit daft to even discuss this.

Point taken and agreed to a certain extent BUT just like OGS they have NO experience of handling top elite players FACT

 

[48 hours]

What does phelan do?

sometimes wears shorts

 

[stevoc]

@Someone I seem to agree with inclusion of extra coaching expertise in that coaching set up. I’d like to see a top South American or Italian or Portuguese coach. Some one from a completely different footballing culture like we had with Quiroz. He was not generally accepted by players at the start but a few shake up which meant the players knew SAF meant business.
Carrick, McKenna and Phelan all are from the same school and it doesn’t give us variety. Even Ole to me subscribed to that same school, considering where he developed as a player. These little things don’t look much but it’s a game of fine margins and every advantage to make a team unpredictable should be welcomed.
We are currently the most British in the way we play ( nothing wrong with that till everyone knows how to stop you) and it’s not a good thing especially when you have loads of players from different background. How do you piece all their cultures to a Unique brand suited to all.
I said S American they are very similar to Africans in what they appreciate in football with a great understanding of Spanish and Italian football. Portuguese coaches tend to carry such understanding as well. Italians maybe I have a believe they grow up looking at football as a puzzle not a quick romp.

So you're saying we need to get a South American, African or perhaps a Portuguese coach who understands Spanish and Italian football?

And/or an Italian coach who's good at puzzles?

 

[SAFMUTD]

I think this is/should be an unanimous thread, one where Ole is and outs can finally agree.

I don't know what either Carrick or McKenna do but the fact they been around for so long and with Ole accepting he's not a tactical coach I think we can all agree those two should be replaced or complemented at least with competent coaches.

 

[stevoc]

I think this is/should be an unanimous thread, one where Ole is and outs can finally agree.

I don't know what either Carrick or McKenna do but the fact they been around for so long and with Ole accepting he's not a tactical coach I think we can all agree those two should be replaced or complemented at least with competent coaches.

Does he say that?

 

[peridigm]

What does phelan do?

He’s the official destination arrival tweeter.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Does it matter if they're any good or is just being Italian and Dutch enough?

A German for discipline

A Spaniard for flair

An American for shooting

A French for style and fashion

 

[Inigo Montoya]

sometimes wears shorts

As long as he wearing them around the kids that’s ok or there’ll be some questions re safeguarding

 

[SAFMUTD]

Does he say that?

Yeah I remember it being posted around here, him saying he doesn't really do much coaching and he lets the coaches do their job.

 

[48 hours]

As long as he wearing them around the kids that’s ok or there’ll be some questions re safeguarding

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah I remember it being posted around here, him saying he doesn't really do much coaching and he lets the coaches do their job.

TBF, that’s their job. It was the same with SAF through much of the most successful seasons.

What he did posses in abundance was an ability to read players and know who was up for the challenge. Ole needs to learn that for next season

 

[SAFMUTD]

TBF, that’s their job. It was the same with SAF through much of the most successful seasons.

What he did posses in abundance was an ability to read players and know who was up for the challenge. Ole needs to learn that for next season

I disagree, it may been that way with SAF but that was 10 years ago and football has evolved. Managers now print their style on their teams, with assistants helping in specifics.

Anyway this is not about Ole, but about McKenna and Carrick which I think we can all agree are not up to the quality we need.

 

[Bastian]

I think this is/should be an unanimous thread, one where Ole is and outs can finally agree.

I don't know what either Carrick or McKenna do but the fact they been around for so long and with Ole accepting he's not a tactical coach I think we can all agree those two should be replaced or complemented at least with competent coaches.

I'm not sure he said that - I remember him saying clearly that he wasn't a coach type manager, but a leader type manager. But I took that to mean that he's not that involved on the training ground, but I still think the counter-attacking setups that have proved successful for him for 2 years now against the better (more attack minded) sides have been his doing. I doubt he leans much on his coaches for tactical setups or game plans, but who knows.

 

[stevoc]

Yeah I remember it being posted around here, him saying he doesn't really do much coaching and he lets the coaches do their job.

Well Solskjaer letting the first team coaches, coach the first team is not exactly the same thing as Solskjaer saying he's ''not a tactical coach''.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I disagree, it may been that way with SAF but that was 10 years ago and football has evolved. Managers now print their style on their teams, with assistants helping in specifics.

Anyway this is not about Ole, but about McKenna and Carrick which I think we can all agree are not up to the quality we need.

Well it is about Ole, they are his choices. The coaching clearly is a 3 way thing.
I’m not sure it’s about their quality per se. What’s Phelan there for, a conduit between Ole and the players?
It was reported a while back that they are faster in training but at times they are pedestrian in games. It’s too easy to blame the coaches

 

[SAFMUTD]

I'm not sure he said that - I remember him saying clearly that he wasn't a coach type manager, but a leader type manager. But I took that to mean that he's not that involved on the training ground, but I still think the counter-attacking setups that have proved successful for him for 2 years now against the better (more attack minded) sides have been his doing. I doubt he leans much on his coaches for tactical setups or game plans, but who knows.

Yeah I agree with you, what I got from that "leader" type of manager is that he's a man management coach, which is a nice attribute to have but I think it was strange for him to said that. Most coaches like to be recognized more from their tactics rather than their man management skills basically because tactics impact the game directly while man management is kind of a PR job to keep players happy implying that the players by themselves are the ones to get the titles which would take merit from the coach.

Anyway I wouldn't mind him being a leader manager or whatever if we had capable people taking care of the tactical side, but we don't. I mean there are some clearly specific problems with the team that are not being corrected. The most obvious is set pieces, that's clearly a coaching problem and no man management is going to solve that. Someone should be held accountable for it, weather that's Ole, McKenna, Carrick, Phelan or all of them who knows.

 

[Bastian]

Well it is about Ole, they are his choices. The coaching clearly is a 3 way thing.
I’m not sure it’s about their quality per se. What’s Phelan there for, a conduit between Ole and the players?
It was reported a while back that they are faster in training but at times they are pedestrian in games. It’s too easy to blame the coaches

It's easy to pin everything on coaches, but if you've got a manager who has dozens of times moaned about our set piece defending, surely there's a problem. And there's obviously a problem breaking down organised deep defenses. That's not merely a lack-of-world-class-players problem, it's a coaching issue (for which the manager is responsible).

But this thing about training. We hear that a bit, how amazing we are in training. Now we can take that a face value and assume that it's a problem with mentality, but are we really this special in training and what value does that have to trot out that line? I mean, unless it's to support a hapless striker on a longer barren run, saying that he's banging them in in training, I don't see how being this or that in training has any meaning. We've got a big sample size of how we are in actual matches. And it indicates that we are bereft of ideas too often, our tempo is too low, we struggle to defend set pieces, and we don't have too much of a tactical flexibility, never mind in terms of lineup.

That seems to me to be mostly a coaching issue.