[DWelbz19]

I don't disagree in principle as he appears to be a good professional to have around, however we pay him way too much to be just a squad player.

Mitigated when Eriksen and Linda leave on frees.

The central midfield should be:
Fernandes / Casemiro / New CM / Mainoo / Ugarte / Youth guy

I'd sell/loan Collyer, let Eriksen walk, and sign a new CM. Ugarte stays by default for another season as almost impossible that we will let him go this summer.

 

[sullydnl]

If we get to the champions league, I believe that we should keep him around for his experience. Our squad is young

Realisitcally if he could be sold then I don't think there's any chance INEOS turn down that opportunity to get a fee and get his £300k a week wages off the books. It's just too much money.

But I doubt that opportunity arises, so it's definitely a big positive that he's shown his value in these big European games.

 

[AjaxCunian]

IF (Still a big IF I know) we win this competition, will his transfer be seen as a net positive? I don't think we'd be in this competition still without him, and if we win it we'll make over £100m from CL football...

100%.

His first season was great, second season he was hung out to dry by ten Hag.

This season Amorim initially criminally underused him, that match vs Newcastle was horrendous but he's our best ball playing midfielder apart from Bruno and has the bonus of his defensive contributions and set piece/aerial strength.

I don't regret his signing at all. Might have preferred Frenkie but without him, the past 3 seasons would have been a lot worse.

 

[Fenômeno]

Realisitcally if he could be sold then I don't think there's any chance INEOS turn down that opportunity to get a fee and get his £300k a week wages off the books. It's just too much money.

But I doubt that opportunity arises, so it's definitely a big positive that he's shown his value in these big European games.

Unless a Saudi club come in for him I don't see any other club being able to put up the cash for him so we will have to absorb his high wages for another year.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

100%.

His first season was great, second season he was hung out to dry by ten Hag.

This season Amorim initially criminally underused him, that match vs Newcastle was horrendous but he's our best ball playing midfielder apart from Bruno and has the bonus of his defensive contributions and set piece/aerial strength.

I don't regret his signing at all. Might have preferred Frenkie but without him, the past 3 seasons would have been a lot worse.

He’s contributed.

I think he was completely the wrong player to be bought, and has cost a horrific amount of money.

I am glad he’s back playing well, but he’s never a player we should have bought.

 

[Red the Bear]

Is he really old to begin with?

Ad I've said before Ten hag did a reputational hit job on him, there's not a single player in the history of world football that could have made that work, none.

 

[Olecurls99]

Just a top notch performances (watch on mute)

Top class professional midfield performance. A joy to watch

 

[sullydnl]

 

[SmashedHombre]

Outstanding performance. If we can get a renaissance from him, he, Cunha, Amad, and Bruno have the potential to play some really wonderful, one-touch football.

 

[MrWilliams]

Net net, I think he was a solid pickup for us. The fee and wages are a tad high, but he's been immense. I hope we can bring this EL trophy home.

 

[RedC]

This season Amorim initially criminally underused him, that match vs Newcastle was horrendous but he's our best ball playing midfielder apart from Bruno and has the bonus of his defensive contributions and set piece/aerial strength.

He wasn't properly fit at all at the start of Amorim's tenure. You can see a big difference in his ability to get around the pitch lately.

 

[Cassidy]

He wasn't properly fit at all at the start of Amorim's tenure. You can see a big difference in his ability to get around the pitch lately.

He played well in the games that Ruud managed, I think Casemiro was just not part of the plans originally

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Glad Amorim is figuring out a way to use Casemiro. He had him in cold storage for a long time but with the paucity of the squad and our injuries, he had too much experience and quality to be rotting on the bench. Especially with how much he cost and the wages he's on!

He's still probably capable of throwing in stinkers in the PL, but he's been immense in the Europa League.

 

[Mercurial]

Big game player

 

[united for life]

Outstanding performance. If we can get a renaissance from him, he, Cunha, Amad, and Bruno have the potential to play some really wonderful, one-touch football.

Brilliant performances lately. At some point earlier this season, I felt he was in his 50s not 30s. His performances shifted the discussion from selling him to continue building for next season with him. It’s good that he improved, but that’s also a risk. He was really bad for a long period this season. Should we try to offload him along with his wages to help fund signings or should we stick with him to run down his contract and hopefully perform well in the process?

To be honest, i don’t know. Hope Amorim knows the right answer.

 

[AjaxCunian]

He wasn't properly fit at all at the start of Amorim's tenure. You can see a big difference in his ability to get around the pitch lately.

Not sure if it was that, can't really recall whether he played under EtH this season.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Net net, I think he was a solid pickup for us. The fee and wages are a tad high, but he's been immense. I hope we can bring this EL trophy home.

How I feel as well. Sure it wasn’t great to spend a few like that on a past his best midfielder, but my god as far as expensive mistakes go, he’s been one of our best. Has never downed tools, acted like a dickhead, rises to the occasion in big moments, and overall is just a true pro.

I’ll never not love him and am glad he got to play here as I’ve always enjoyed watching him even back into his Porto days.

 

[NZT-One]

He’s contributed.

I think he was completely the wrong player to be bought, and has cost a horrific amount of money.

I am glad he’s back playing well, but he’s never a player we should have bought.

You mean type wise or package wise (age, salary, reputation, skillset)?

I think, it was a good idea to bring in somebody who doesn't look out of place in a defensive midfield position. An experienced player made sense as well. A player on the way down age and mobility wise certainly not ideal, especially for the money involved. And the money aspect would be the main driving force for me to get him out. No doubt, he pulled his weight especially in a few decisive moments but thats just part of the book that also has pages about looking very well off the pace.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

You mean type wise or package wise (age, salary, reputation, skillset)?

I think, it was a good idea to bring in somebody who doesn't look out of place in a defensive midfield position. An experienced player made sense as well. A player on the way down age and mobility wise certainly not ideal, especially for the money involved. And the money aspect would be the main driving force for me to get him out. No doubt, he pulled his weight especially in a few decisive moments but thats just part of the book that also has pages about looking very well off the pace.

Age and salary, are one element. Also, being in such a crucial position that requires athleticism is the the other factor.we will have a payer whose games we have to manage throughout most of his time at the club, that’s just not acceptable with what he cost.

For 4 years he will cost the club £160m.

If he was a RVP type signing that’s the inspiration/ last piece in a puzzle to take us to a next level - then perhaps that could be justified. But I struggle to see a compelling argument that he was the right player.

He’s been a relative success, somewhat like Harry Maguire - but it’s relative to the appalling signings we have made.

 

[Olecurls99]

Fantastic performance. Controlled the game after the initial 20 minute madness.

 

[RedC]

Not sure if it was that, can't really recall whether he played under EtH this season.

He wasn't playing and it seemed like he had been put in the bin, I doubt he was properly match fit at all at that point, coming into when Amorim took over.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

For 4 years he will cost the club £160m.

If we win the EL though, he’ll be massively responsible for 2 CL qualifications, a League Cup and a Europa League title. None of which we win without him, just remember how fecking shite we started that season prior to his arrival, I felt he was essential then else we’d have ended ETH’s first season in mid table also.
Considering how we usually spend our money, I’m extremely doubtful we’d have gotten in anyone instead that could’ve contributed remotely that much. Most likely we’d have spunked 50m on someone in the Mount mold or Neves (average as feck) and paid him 200 k /week to make us no better.

 

[Chungy]

He wasn't playing and it seemed like he had been put in the bin, I doubt he was properly match fit at all at that point, coming into when Amorim took over.

Maybe it's due to the possibility of offloading him in January? Wasn't he picked relatively consistently since the winter transfer window ended?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Maybe it's due to the possibility of offloading him in January? Wasn't he picked relatively consistently since the winter transfer window ended?

I can only believe Amorim and the big wigs must have discussed players, wages, and those they desperately thought should be moved on.
Rashford, Antony clearly were in that conversation and Cas too, bit stupid from Amorim to agree to it imo and he and the club have lucked out that Cas simply refused and put the work in to force his way back in the side. Not a chance for me that we make the final without him.

 

[jem]

Just a top notch performances (watch on mute)

Absolutely immense. I think he should be handled worry kid gloves until the final (I’m really hoping we can see out a 3-0 lead without him.) With him playing like this, we’re very hard to beat.

 

[KD6-3.7]

I always had the opinion he still had plenty to offer but especially under Ten Hag he was being managed poorly and playing way too many games and being left exposed to often.

Wish we had him when he was a bit younger so he could have stayed with us for many more years. Both him and Varane had that proper united mentality and didn’t just come here for that last big paycheck.

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[flappyjay]

The fact that Ten Hag couldn't see this very obvious issue. Asking Casemiro to cover that much ground was ridiculous.

 

[NZT-One]

The fact that Ten Hag couldn't see this very obvious issue. Asking Casemiro to cover that much ground was ridiculous.

This point is overstated to a degree. I mean, no doubt, the way we played under ETH was often a lose-lose situation but lets not act as if thats solely down to the manager. Casemiro had so much ground in front of him because the guys in front of him were often too agressive pushing up while not being intensive enough to get back into shape. And the defenders were often slow to push up on their own which resulted in that massive space in the middle of the park. Casemiro himself doesn't seem to really enjoy being a sitter but is happy to push up as well to be involved in front of goal, the issue has always been that he is too slow to get back after doing that and that our defensive structure was never solid enough to stand much of a chance when others had to push in. This isn't Amorim finally ending a stupid error, it is him seemingly helping Casemiro realize what he can't do anymore. And the much-debated formation with the 3 central defenders helps as well.

 

[aeh1991]

He's back to his world class form. And Amorim knows how to use him efficiently. Also impressed by how leaner he has gotten. Hopefully this form continues.

 

[Buster15]

He's back to his world class form. And Amorim knows how to use him efficiently. Also impressed by how leaner he has gotten. Hopefully this form continues.

Spot on.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[DJ_21]

He could be on 500k a week next season. Just found out he gets like a 25% pay rise if we get back into the CL. No wonder he’s playing like a boss on European nights.

 

[Snow]

Nice to hear. We can always be proud of our match going fans. Imagine what they would sound like on the regular in a stadium that doesn't kill sound.

 

[Vidooq]

I put a lot of hope into his leadership for the final to drag us over the line like he did in the final v Newcastle, but I'm also aware that he doesn't fare well against PL midfield oposition, and that we won the final v City without him.

Truly hope that Amorim can set the team up where his shortcomings are not exploited.

 

[Dominos]

I feel our fans are only seeing the positives and not recognising the negative connotations in this statement.

It's good that the manager has found a short term solution to work with what he has.

But the manager should not be having to adapt and compensate for players who can't run, or don't suit his preferred setup, in the medium or long term. And yet we already have fans clamouring to keep Casemiro around even beyond his current contract.

This was a theme of Ole and ETH reigns that the squad couldn't play the way they wanted so they ended up abandoning their plans and just adapt adapt adapt, and ultimately both failed to get the team to the level we needed. This club is in a constant state of compensating - trying to compensate for players with no pace, compensate for players who are past their prime, compensate for players who can't run, compensate for centre backs who can't compete in the air. I fear until we stop purposely hamstringing ourselves with this mentality, we're going nowhere.

You may have to adapt in the very short term. But the goal surely has to be as soon as possible, get rid of the players not suited to your preferred way of playing. Amorim very clearly wants players who are in their physical prime who can run.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

.

But the manager should not be having to adapt and compensate for players who can't run, or don't suit his preferred setup, in the medium or long term. And yet we already have fans clamouring to keep Casemiro around even beyond his current contract.

That’s exactly what good managers do actually and is probably the best piece of management we have seen from Amorim at United so far.
Had he not shown flexibility and tactical nous we absolutely would not be looking at European final or Champions League football.
Good players give managers alternatives, and that is a good thing.

 

[Tallis]

He could be on 500k a week next season. Just found out he gets like a 25% pay rise if we get back into the CL. No wonder he’s playing like a boss on European nights.

I think most of our contracts have that clause.

The question is whether the rumored 350K GBP that he supposedly receives per week include the CL bonus or is the CL bonus outside that.

 

[abr]

This point is overstated to a degree. I mean, no doubt, the way we played under ETH was often a lose-lose situation but lets not act as if thats solely down to the manager. Casemiro had so much ground in front of him because the guys in front of him were often too agressive pushing up while not being intensive enough to get back into shape. And the defenders were often slow to push up on their own which resulted in that massive space in the middle of the park. Casemiro himself doesn't seem to really enjoy being a sitter but is happy to push up as well to be involved in front of goal, the issue has always been that he is too slow to get back after doing that and that our defensive structure was never solid enough to stand much of a chance when others had to push in. This isn't Amorim finally ending a stupid error, it is him seemingly helping Casemiro realize what he can't do anymore. And the much-debated formation with the 3 central defenders helps as well.

You can blame it on the players if it happened once or twice, but if same thing happened for the whole season? It can only be blamed at manager either for lack of authority to punish players or lack of tactical acument ie it was all by design, i think i knew which one was that.

 

[NZT-One]

That’s exactly what good managers do actually and is probably the best piece of management we have seen from Amorim at United so far.
Had he not shown flexibility and tactical nous we absolutely would not be looking at European final or Champions League football.
Good players give managers alternatives, and that is a good thing.

I think, you are missing a point. Pretty sure the poster wasn't against being pragmatic and somewhat flexible when it comes to prepare for individual matches here and there. Thats fine and necessary and takes into account, who is available, who is in form, who are we playing against and so on. What the other poster alluded to, I personally would totally agree with it, is us sometimes clinging onto temporary solutions like for example "find a way to get some use out of a certain player". That simply can't be the way forward. A system requires certain players to fulfill roles and while it is fine to adjust on a micro level for something like "the next 2 to 3 games", it must not be something that bleeds into longterm plans. The system is the skeleton, it is supposed to provide a possibility for as many players as possible to shine in their roles. When one player can't fulfill his role, than his role has to be adapted, often making the role of another player more difficult. Or the system has to be adjusted as a whole, which effects every other player.

You are right of course, pragmatism and adaptiveness is an important quality, potentially even one of the most important. But it shines even brighter when applied to teams who have a solid foundation to fall back on. Uniteds situation is different though, I feel. We haven't gone with the times, we missed trends, we tried to act as if we were the same team in the same league with the same financial environment as 20 years ago. From an on-field organisational level, we were left far behind - good players might be able to soften the blow here and there but if the chasm gets too big, results will show. Which is what we've seen throughout the last years.

This has to be the main objective right now. Not finding ways to make do with "good players" since "there are available". Those times will come back, I am sure about it, but first we have to close the gap.

I think most of our contracts have that clause.

The question is whether the rumored 350K GBP that he supposedly receives per week include the CL bonus or is the CL bonus outside that.

Pretty sure the 350k is with CL money.
We simply can't be that dumb.

You can blame it on the players if it happened once or twice, but if same thing happened for the whole season? It can only be blamed at manager either for lack of authority to punish players or lack of tactical acument ie it was all by design, i think i knew which one was that.

I don't want to exclude the manager completely from criticism here, thats why I said, I think it is overstated. He should have adjusted especially after more and more injuries made the whole approach less and less effective. But the approach wasn't entirely fruitless. Iirc there was a point in time, where we were the team with the highest number of high turnovers, so the aggressive pressing was doing what it was supposed to, it was just canceled out because our attackers being unable to convert those turnovers into goals.