[Mainoonited]

The camera panned to his face just before the second half started. He looked like a guy who had given up. He didn't look focused.

He wasn't bad defensively, but that's mainly because spurs offered no threat. Offensively he just played the same option.

You'd think a 5 times CL winner would raise his game in a European final and help motivate those around him.

 

[bosnian_red]

I think with a half decent striker, then replaying the game 10 times we'd win it 10 times. Unfortunately they're a clinical team and we're the opposite, that's always going to matter in tight games like finals.

Oh without a doubt. Even Zirkzee who is not an out and out striker. Even Maguire up top I honestly think we'd do better. Hard to overstate how bad Hojlund is. Your CF is supposed to be a difference maker, make something out of nothing... Best we can hope is that he can control a pass and lay it off without losing it

 

[criticalanalysis]

He should have received and passed the ball better then. Get the basics right. That's any players platform.

It's not like we haven't seen that performance from him before. We've seen it plenty. He's fun to watch at times but it's how he is now.

He only has himself to blame tonight, he was a passenger and was just too slow. His passing was sloppy and he probably only stayed on as he is a threat at set pieces.

We can’t make excuses for these players who just aren’t up to the job, you can’t carry someone week in week out who is so immobile.

"Player bad mmkay'".

I don't disagree fundamentally with what both of what you're saying except it could apply to almost everyone else, who started on the pitch tonight (bar Yoro). My point is that Amorim hamstrung his two biggest players with nothing to show for it.

I agree

---
No hard feelings towards Casemiro. Without him, we probably wouldn't even in the finale. Lets just end that chapter at peace with each other. He isn't the future of the team, he shouldn't get minutes over players that might have one.

I'll drink to that. I said the same in Maguire's thread. If there's an opportunity, we should looking to offload or move on both.

 

[The Hilton]

I don't disagree fundamentally with what both of what you're saying except it could apply to almost everyone else, who started on the pitch tonight (bar Yoro). My point is that Amorim hamstrung his two biggest players with nothing to show for it.

Casemiro isn't one of our biggest players, he's a passenger against Premier League opposition, as his legs have gone. We desperately need to replace him for next season.

You're right about Bruno though, he shouldn't have played in midfield, it was a bad call. Somewhat understandable to start with, but should have been rectified.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Casemiro isn't one of our biggest players, he's a passenger against Premier League opposition, as his legs have gone. We desperately need to replace him for next season.

You're right about Bruno though, he shouldn't have played in midfield, it was a bad call. Somewhat understandable to start with, but should have been rectified.

Call it whatever you want, he's one of our best big game players when given a platform to succeed especially in Europe this season and as shown in the League Cup two years ago against Newcastle. It's a one off game and his experience would have counted if he wasn't playing next to a super nervous wreck Bruno.

I'm not defending his other issues and I want him gone as much as the next person.

 

[The Hilton]

Call it whatever you want, he's one of our best big game players when given a platform to succeed especially in Europe this season and as shown in the League Cup two years ago against Newcastle. It's a one off game and his experience would have counted if he wasn't playing next to a super nervous wreck Bruno.

I'm not defending his other issues and I want him gone as much as the next person.

The league cup two years ago is huge given how much his fitness has deteriorated. If we were still back then you'd have a point.

He isn't one of our best big game players at all, his best performance all season was in the home leg against Lyon, yet he was also our worst player by a country mile in the away leg of that tie. He was a passenger tonight, as he has been in almost all PL matches, because he simply doesn't have the legs to impact games against PL standard opposition anymore.

 

[criticalanalysis]

The league cup two years ago is huge given how much his fitness has deteriorated. If we were still back then you'd have a point.

He isn't one of our best big game players at all, his best performance all season was in the home leg against Lyon, yet he was also our worst player by a country mile in the away leg of that tie. He was a passenger tonight, as he has been in almost all PL matches, because he simply doesn't have the legs to impact games against PL standard opposition anymore.

You can check the thread marks here to see the general consensus of his form in Europe and again I'm not defending him being past it physically.

However, against PL opposition tonight, who for the most part weren't that physical against us (with interceptions and running power because they decided to sit back) apart from a few moments in the first half, Casemiro being slow wouldn't have mattered that much. It would have mattered though, if the system allowed him to be more on the front foot, feeding balls from the mid range and arriving at the box late, which is my entire point. He has that in his locker along with big game experience, which seems to the subjective quality people are disagreeing with me here. He played poorly partly because the platform was bad and I felt it was a shame because of that.

Out of curiosity, how many games has he played with Ugarte in the PL this season and what were the results/performances? That would perhaps illustrate my point better or worse.

 

[Swerny]

he's finished...hopefully off to Saudi with Bruno to play with CR7

 

[The Hilton]

You can check the thread marks here to see the general consensus of his form in Europe and again I'm not defending him being past it physically.

However, against PL opposition tonight, who for the most part weren't that physical against us (with interceptions and running power because they decided to sit back) apart from a few moments in the first half, Casemiro being slow wouldn't have mattered that much. It would have mattered though, if the system allowed him to be more on the front foot, feeding balls from the mid range and arriving at the box late, which is my entire point. He has that in his locker along with big game experience, which seems to the subjective quality people are disagreeing with me here. He played poorly partly because the platform was bad and I felt it was a shame because of that.

Out of curiosity, how many games has he played with Ugarte in the PL this season and what were the results/performances? That would perhaps illustrate my point better or worse.

I take the consensus of the Caf very lightly when assessing player performances, there are clear favourites and scapegoats, and rationality tends to go out of the window.

He does have big game experience. So does Roy Keane, there's a reason we aren't playing him though. Casemiro simply isn't physically up to PL standards anymore. He didn't play poorly because Bruno was next to him, he played poorly because he has nothing to offer against a parked bus other than a set piece threat, which he didn't offer tonight.

Your final question is an interesting thought, but it's too late and I'm off to bed. We can pick this up tomorrow if you'd like.

 

[Winrar]

Sorely disappointing performance, especially knowing now that his legs have finally given to the point where his experience alone couldn't save us.

 

[Dominos]

Wasnt a problem today, Spurs barely crossed the half way line. If anything we probably could've even tossed Eriksen on there and it wouldn't have changed much.

In hindsight, Eriksen on at the 60 minute mark maybe was the play. We seem to play a lot better when he gets his foot on the ball and passes the ball to team mates in dangerous areas. Spurs had so little interest in attacking us he may have been able to coast.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I take the consensus of the Caf very lightly when assessing player performances, there are clear favourites and scapegoats, and rationality tends to go out of the window.

He does have big game experience. So does Roy Keane, there's a reason we aren't playing him though. Casemiro simply isn't physically up to PL standards anymore. He didn't play poorly because Bruno was next to him, he played poorly because he has nothing to offer against a parked bus other than a set piece threat, which he didn't offer tonight.

Your final question is an interesting thought, but it's too late and I'm off to bed. We can pick this up tomorrow if you'd like.

There are narratives on the Caf but if you get a wide array of people particularly criticising or praising with nuance after a game, there is probably some common objectivity.

As for the bolded, we'll probably have to agree to disagree for this one off game. As I said before, he is capable of good mid range passing, is an aerial threat and also good at crossing himself. He played poorly but all three of those things I mentioned (even if inconsistent) was affected because he had to hold his position playing next to Bruno. By extension of having Ugarte next to him and Bruno in front, he would have had opportunities to do more of them. Casemiro should have done better himself but Amorim has set us up to fail all season and it was no different in this game.

I'm sure if you really wanted to do some digging or using data, I wonder what has Casemiro's productivity been against parked buses this season? Progressive passes, chances created, assists, goals etc? And what personnel was on the pitch at the time?

Obviously that'll be a lot of work and you may not find them but my feeling is that he's one of our best players for those things when it comes to crunch moments. I can acknowledge that and also say I don't want him here next season.

 

[simplyared]

Amorim obviously putting him in on experience. Easy choice but not the right one!

 

[Dominos]

Wasnt a problem today, Spurs barely crossed the half way line. If anything we probably could've even tossed Eriksen on there and it wouldn't have changed much.

Their goal came from our midfield handed the ball over with sloppy passing while trying to attack too fast. Playing out from the back wasn't the problem, it was our careless midfield.

I've just come to rewatch the highlights and the lead up to their goal is very telling.

Bruno gives the ball away in midfield as usual, ok, it's what he does. But we're not in trouble. Casemiro is basically right on top of Sarr who now has the ball, and we have 3 centre backs behind marking no one as Spurs have no players forward. All Casemiro has to do is go chase, harrass Sarr to force him to go backwards.

What does he do instead? He drops off and backs off 30+ yards towards our centre backs, and allows Sarr to run forward 30+ yards whilst Spurs players pour forward and start making runs. Why? Because he realises he has no pace, no legs to go chase them down and take a risk of getting dribbled past.

This is the fundamental problem with having players who do not have the minimum level of physical attributes. We have turned what should have been forcing Spurs to play backwards, into a dangerous attack for Spurs. Now, imagine these types of little incidents happening dozens of times a game across several different players, where a player abandons the optimal play because they know they don't have the physical attributes to carry out the optimal play, or they try to carry out the optimal play and fail because they're physically incapable.

Even in Casemiro's "good" games, this is always going to be the problem. You cannot hamstring yourself by having to compensate for players who cannot run. I'm genuinely confused we had people asking for the club to extend his contract over the last few months. Complete madness.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

He’s just posted on instagram him waving to the crowd and captioned it “Thank you very much Old Trafford” with a heart emoji. He’s also limited who can comment on it.

This seems a sure sign that’s he’s leaving?

 

[ThanksBoss26]

He’s just posted on instagram him waving to the crowd and captioned it “Thank you very much Old Trafford” with a heart emoji. He’s also limited who can comment on it.

This seems a sure sign that’s he’s leaving?

Not sure. He had some good games in the Europa run but I still think if the opportunity comes to move him on this summer, we should take it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He’s just posted on instagram him waving to the crowd and captioned it “Thank you very much Old Trafford” with a heart emoji. He’s also limited who can comment on it.

This seems a sure sign that’s he’s leaving?

Could mean anything really and I’d limit every post as a United player.
Been a class act for us whatever happens, such a shame we didn’t build on that great first season and strengthen that midfield alongside him, bizarrely spending €60m on Mount instead.
Would’ve been a perfect 3 years signing had we then used our position of strength in Summer 2023 to buy a top midfielder and then add another in Summer 2024.

 

[pocco]

He was fantastic today. Him and Bruno absolutely controlled the game for us.

I’m not sure if this is the end of the road for him here but these last few months he’s sort of redeemed himself, or at least reminded us of the quality he has. What’s really surprised me, as I never noticed it so much at Real, is how good he actually can be with his passing. He can play long, he can play quick, intricate passes, he can play through the lines well.

When you see him playing as well as he can it makes you wonder how he has some of the performances he did at times for us, where he could barely string a pass. Feels now like he was dragged down a bit by what’s been going on around him, because when I see him play like he has recently, you can see the quality that made him a mainstay in that Real Madrid team.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He was fantastic today. Him and Bruno absolutely controlled the game for us.

I’m not sure if this is the end of the road for him here but these last few months he’s sort of redeemed himself, or at least reminded us of the quality he has. What’s really surprised me, as I never noticed it so much at Real, is how good he actually can be with his passing. He can play long, he can play quick, intricate passes, he can play through the lines well.

When you see him playing as well as he can it makes you wonder how he has some of the performances he did at times for us, where he could barely string a pass. Feels now like he was dragged down a bit by what’s been going on around him, because when I see him play like he has recently, you can see the quality that made him a mainstay in that Real Madrid team.

Appears to be a few things really.

Madrid fans told us that he was always a slow starter to every season, and that’s pretty much been the case here also.
Then of course anyone can have a shocker, even the best players, just look at Bruno in the final for example. Casemiro this season has had 2-3 games where he’s just not been at it at all, like at Anfield, but since Ruud came, and Amorim after him, he’s been rather consistent in that midfield role, and with a few outstanding performances sprinkled in there.

Last year he really was left up shit creek, I maintain to this day that not even prime Keane, Kante or Vieira would have been able to do much in that midfield chasm EtH left.

If we’d just bought another top midfielder in July 2023, followed by another last Summer, Casemiro would’ve been the perfect example of a big money, short term solution. With Eriksen proving a smart even shorter term solution.
Instead we haven’t brought in a single player anywhere close to the quality of either Eriksen nor Casemiro, which is typical United, stupid as feck. It’s left both players at times resented by the fans.

Looking back now for all the shite ETH and his recruitment received, I think the first Summer was ok, and we’ll get back a good sum for the one big signing that didn’t work out.
Summer 2024 was ok also, but we really should’ve found a midfielder better than Eriksen and Casemiro for the money we spent on Ugarte.

Summer 2023 was where it all seriously went horrendously wrong, an absolutely terrible transfer window.
Højlund, Mount & Onana for a combined 192m and every single one made us a worse team.

 

[BorisManUtd]

He's an interesting Case. 34 next year so surely we won't extent his contract but could still stay next season as we're playing one game a week and his wages will be reduced after missing out on CL. But if there's a good offer from Saudi club you'd think we'll take it as we need money.

 

[Godfather]

He was absolutely fantastic yesterday