Sorry, couldn’t resist. Let’s say it was a stupid decision, rather than character slandering the man.I need a slap. My bad. Not a direct red.
But he is still an idiot, most red Cards in PL since joining
18
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 10
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
Tbh at least 10 posters called it out in the match thread. 2-0 up, Chelsea already used 3 subs. Case on a yellow. Take him off ASAP. Prime Mourinho would’ve taken him off without hesitation.
Amorim hasn’t got that built into him. Yet, maybe.
Yeah - but still, it’s a lot of cards by now. Stop tackling. I guess it’s the only way he is able to catch up though.
Imagine replacing him with a younger person of himself.
Because its not a non contact sport and you can foul someone with a yellow card. When Ugarte came on he made several fouls and didnt get a yellow card. The accumulation of his fouls was worse than Casemiro's once he was on a yellow. So even if we subbed Casemiro off once he got a yellow card and the game winning goal I'd have been concerned that Ugarte would be the one getting 2 yellows. But thats the nature of the position he plays as a DM. Its his job to relieve the pressure on the defence and goalkeeper by nicking the ball off the opponents before they have to act. Whoever it was that had that job after Chelsea went a man behind was going to be the person the ref was going to even the numbers up on because thats the person who needs to disrupt Chelsea's play. Now, if we were smart and the whole team realized that and were breaking up play with little fouls maybe Ugarte would get through to the end having come on later. Some teams do that.
Casemiro was our only player to make 2 fouls and was given 2 yellows for them. Imagine how different it would be if the team was helping him break up play with little fouls when it made sense. Bruno made 1 foul no booking, Sesko 1 foul no booking and the defenders did do exactly that with 2 each from Shaw, Maguire and De Ligt. But no fouls and no booking for Mazraoui, Dorgu, Amad and Mbeumo. No fouls no bookings for Mount, Mainoo, Cunha or Yoro.
So yeah it fell on the DM to be the one trying to break up play, hopefully cleanly but when the ball gets past you, you dont let the man and its a little freekick to break up play. Its actually remarkable that he was sent off for 2 fouls especially that 2nd one but it shows what the ref's intentions were and unfortunately Casemiro fell for it not that he could have done too much about it. If he lets Santos get the ball and turn where he receives it Chelsea can be back in the game and he'd have been getting evicerated for not doing something about it. He was in a no win scenario with posters on here anyway so I suppose it doesnt matter if he did or didnt score the winning goal or did or didnt get sent off, many posters would still be criticizing him anyway
Yeah. I didnt even realize it was his 2nd foul of the game so no chance that its accumulation. He certainly wasnt given a final warning. Just the ref bottled it and evened it up
I counted 4 or 5 in the first half alone yesterday, in the 20 mins before he sent Casemiro off. Posted in the var thread.
27 mins - Cucurella drags Mbuemo down off the ball by his shirt. Foul, no yellow card.
28 mins - Shaw dragged Enzo down as Chelsea looked to break. Foul, no yellow card.
29 mins - Cucurella through the back of Mazraoui, doesn't get the ball. Foul, no yellow card.
41 mins - Bruno drags Joao Pedro down by his arm. Foul, no yellow card.
44 mins - Cucurella, studs up, 2 footed lunge. Foul, yellow Card.
49 mins - Casemiro, uses his arms to get around Santos to hook the ball away. Foul, 2nd yellow card.
Good stuff. Also 73rd minute Bruno takes the ball past Caicedo towards our right wing. Caicedo doesnt like him being goalside so he fouls him from behind with a late challenge. Another example of 'player doesnt want to do the work to get into a good position so will clearly professionally foul the player and take a booking'. No yellow card
Yeah, I saw someone else say the referee was giving out yellow cards so Casemiro should have known. There were 14 fouls and 3 yellow cards in the first half, we all know where 2 of them went.
If anything the referee didn't give out yellow cards for worse tackles, so of you're involved in that game, you see what he's letting go you'd be more inclined to be a little more aggressive even if you are already on a yellow.
Referee was just evening up the game.
In a way I think it is a difficult change to make - it’s in his reflexes as a footballer to be that way of aggressive and assertive, and now that he is a yard slower, those instincts put him a yard off the ball but close enough to clatter the player.. i imagine that when he tries to play more carefully, he almost doesn’t function as a defensive player with his speed issues.
Paul Scholes was a player who learned to play on the borderline to compensate for lack of speed and body strength to still be able to play in a pivot. He took dozens of orange yellows, but hardly ever saw red as a MF I think. Bruno had the issue for a while a year ago, pulling theee straight reds before lesrning to temper his aggression playing further back in MF.
I’m not certain Casemiro can manage the transition, as he has always played that way.. I don’t think it’s because he is a stupid person, as these decisions are made more on instinct often than as cool calculation. But it is an issue for Man Utd that he carries that risk, and still is the current best option for defensive control.
He was definitely trying to even the game up... 2 tackles 2 yellows...
It just shows lack of integrity from the ref... almost as if the red for Chelsea was a mistake...
Sure, I concur. But in the term of idiot, I don't mean him as a person, more of his idiotic way of getting sent off. If he can't manage to change his way of playing he is a hazard every game and a risk of getting the team in trouble - a team that needs everything else then just that.
Nice rhyme there.
I think the grim truth right now concerning midfield this particular season, is that we have no midfielders who don’t come with their own risks. Bruno with the risks his instinct poses to man marking, safe passing, defensive positioning, Ugarte with the risks his passing offers to opponents pressing, Mainoo with the risks of getting drawn out, bypassed, played around … Sesko, Mount and Mbeumo pressing better will shield them somewhat, an aggressive De Ligt tucking in from defence will help them out, maybe Lammens or a more confident Bayindir can snuff out abit more of the fall out as the season progresses, but they all come with risks that will lead to goals against and points lost for this season.
It’s the hole we left to fix for next summer, among several holes.
I called him shit and old a bunch of times. But without him we're even more shit that it's night and day. Ugarte was invisible against Brentford and outside of Sesko and Maguire, I don't think our players know how to score from crosses. Case did it twice in the game against Chelsea alone (one was offside) and while the red card was his own mistake, he's one of the few players we have that can score a goal to change the match... in fact his goal won us the match vs Chelsea. He didn't play vs Brentford and we lost 3-1 despite our "best" front three playing. That third goal especially was absolutely pathetic, players were lining up in a straight line as if it's supposed to be a formation, we lost the ball and conceded from a counter. Case is old and past it, but they can learn a thing or two on how to benefit from crosses.
One complaint I had against Ten Hag was how dependent we are on Case to score goals. And now it's happening again. If you need a proof of how shit the system is, it's the common ground between Ten Hag and Amorim. Praying for the midfielders (Case and Bruno) to score a goal because none of your forwards can. It's so stupid. Surely it's systemic. Likewise we become accustomed to expecting midfielders to win us points, some posters calling Bruno a cnut for missing a penalty. And calling Case a twat for getting a red card. It's absolutely insane because like it or not we're still dependent on them.
We have a forward line that costed us 230+ million... it's so wrong to be dependent on CMs for goals.
One complaint I had against Ten Hag was how dependent we are on Case to score goals. And now it's happening again. If you need a proof of how shit the system is, it's the common ground between Ten Hag and Amorim. Praying for the midfielders (Case and Bruno) to score a goal because none of your forwards can. It's so stupid. Surely it's systemic. Likewise we become accustomed to expecting midfielders to win us points, some posters calling Bruno a cnut for missing a penalty. And calling Case a twat for getting a red card. It's absolutely insane because like it or not we're still dependent on them.
We have a forward line that costed us 230+ million... it's so wrong to be dependent on CMs for goals.
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This is the biggest issue of the game for me and I am glad that you mentioned it because nowhere near enough emphasis has been placed on the biggest tactical flaw of the lot - and there’s plenty to choose from. It was criminal to see them lined up like traffic cones in a straight line time and time again.
Casemiro has know how and wherewithal he learned a long, long time ago and it’s alarming to me how few recognise his worth and contribution to the team. He’s the only midfielder we have that understands midfield in its entirety. He might make mistakes and he might be over excitable for the age and experience he has, but you can bet a good portion of that is coming about because he’s aware it’s either he does it, or it won’t get done. So he steps up to the plate and makes the attempts at whatever it is that literally none of the others can comprehend let alone get done. At Real he could well have had the same awareness, but with two experts in the craft of midfield specialisation next to him, he didn’t have to overstretch himself much or step into their realms of expertise where as here, he is the only one we have who even sees that full picture let alone knows what needs attempting at a given moment in a play.
It’s no coincidence that the last time we looked like we had a midfield worth anything was when he was paired with a fresh Eriksen who had just come to the club. He too knows what needs to be done in midfield and like Casemiro, will attempt things outside his comfort zone if nobody else steps to the plate and obviously with him diminishing over cumulative games, the outcome of attempting what he wouldn’t need to in a more competent midfield varied more wildly over time.
Midfield is a symbiosis between components that understand and see the full picture. And even if you have specialists in the 2 or 3 that it is made up of, they understand what is needed and what is happening at all times even if particular aspects are not their own field of expertise. We have one aged player in this category - the team that just swept everything last season has 3 of them covering and rotating and constantly, dynamically providing precisely what the others need in any given situation.
If Casemiro had equivalent level talent and know how in midfield to his own since he got here, we would never have seen time outside of the European positions as a minimum. Even in his diminished state. All we ever get to see in midfield is Casemiro holding the fort as best he can whilst carrying whoever the midfield partner is. No midfield of any quality is founded on such principles. Not a single one. For as godly as even Roy Keane was, the very worst regular partner he had here was Nicky Butt. If Casemiro had the Nicky Butt Keane played alongside beside him, we would be a different animal. As an exercise in itself, people should think of any top midfielder in his pomp and then the midfield unit they had around them. Midfield is never an island at any competent level and the way we have mistreated ours is a disgrace.
However you guys try to spin it and try and spin it you do.... Casemiro has been our best midfielder since he joined and despite his age still is. He is far from the problem.
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Man Utd 2:0 Sunderland
New
Agreed. He is back and we won against Sunderland. He looked slower than the rest but nobody can do what he does. Not Bruno, not Mainoo, and definitely not Ugarte... he gives our midfield a bit of control. Without him it's pure chaos.
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I thought played fairly well but he really needs to cut out these needless reckless tackles. Really doesn't help himself nor the team and as an experienced pro, he should know better.
Agreed. With him our CM is at least somewhat functional
I said in the other thread he's the most improved under Amorim, he actually knows what he's doing in there. Shame he hasn't got the legs any more.
The fact that someone with his passing ability was the water carrier in that Madrid midfield shows you why they won so much.
Another player who I thought was finished after last year but honestly would be the only midfielder I'd say is guaranteed a spot for me the rest should be fighting for the other spot, was good today.
Towards the end of the game, we conceded a corner. He was not far from the ball, he walked, then realised it’s wrong to not attempt to keep it in, ran a bit to get it, failed, conceded a corner.
He has improved, but be has not legs. You’re right. In a faster tempo game, he won’t last
He’s better than Ugarte but needs to cut out the pointless yellow cards and sloppiness with his passing.
The only decent centre mid we’ve signed in feck knows how long? Since Carrick?
We then went and fecked up by not buying another to play alongside him so we’re in the ridiculous situation of him still being our best centre mid by far at 33 with no sign of a proper partner nor a half decent replacement.
Weird weird club.
We then went and fecked up by not buying another to play alongside him so we’re in the ridiculous situation of him still being our best centre mid by far at 33 with no sign of a proper partner nor a half decent replacement.
Weird weird club.
For all his faults and aging, he's still the best midfielder we have (not really counting Bruno since I consider him more of AM). Which says more about the tragic state of our midfield than anything else.
Matic and we did the same with him!
Matic, Schweinsteiger, Pogba, were all very good to excellent players but either over the hill or not a good fit to the team. Herrera was decent. Fred was decent but was mostly played out of position. He was never a 6.
Yeah great shout, carbon copy of what we’ve done with Cas.
Matic was actually very good for us on the whole, but it was only if he got isolated he would struggle. He was extremely intelligent at using his body and positioning, despite his lack of speed. He also had fantastic technique. Herrera was a perfect foil in midfield if you wanted balance and a could follow tactical instructions well. Bit like a poor man's Park, but less versatile. Fred seems to be the mistake we constantly make, buy an 8 and try and play him as a 6 - Casemiro is the same.
He was crap, just like his midfield partner. Whatever good we played mostly came when we bypassed Cas and Bruno. Our CB get zero protection from them and they are hit and miss with their passing. Casemiro should not be starting.
He seems to get a lot of unfair criticism. Although some of it is warranted. He is erratic at times, which isn't helpful but despite being past his best he's our best CM. If he's injured or out suspended at some point, I'll really worry about any combo of our remaining CMs. Mainoo, Ugarte, Bruno are all average/poor in that position. Casemiro is the only thing holding this shocking midfield together currently.
Awful take. He's currently by far our best CM and we'd be absolutely screwed without him.
He currently reigns supreme and plays whenever he is not stupidly suspended and alongside a CAM being shoehorned into a CM. By far our best CM tells absolutely nothing how he has played because we have been crap in midfield. Zero tackles won yesterday and he is our best CDM?
What a stupid yellow card. He can be so reckless and brainless with those. Never deserved second yellow vs Chelsea but honestly think referees find him reckless and like to give him cards probably.
You don't make a lot of sense. Yes, we are crap in midfield but if he's the best of the crap midfielders, that makes him our best midfielder, which I think you are half agreeing with. Yet you say he shouldn't be starting. Who should be starting ahead of him? There's no one.
It can be 3 tackles won which is 1 less than his normal 4, which is the 99th percentile and highest across all top leagues
Fbref says he had 2, whoscored says 3 so there's a debatable 1
So its 0 times he retained possession of the ball for us with a tackle. 2 actual tackles on fbref though.
For a team playing 1 game a week and not challenging for the CL spots…he is more than good enough.
He is easily ahead of the alternatives for me, and is starting on merit.
He is easily ahead of the alternatives for me, and is starting on merit.
He isn't close to be good enough for 3/4 of the midfields in the PL as we get overrun almost every single match.
Does he get picked for the Brazil team/ squad anymore?