[Suedesi]

I think he's served his purpose and has been a key player in getting us back into the champions league in his first season at the club. But I think we have to move him on because setting up to play in transitions and ceding possession is a setup he's best utilised in and that setup isn't going to bring about a big enough improvement to challenge the top teams.

He along with Ugarte should be moved on imo.

Yup!

 

[The Hilton]

I think he's served his purpose and has been a key player in getting us back into the champions league in his first season at the club. But I think we have to move him on because setting up to play in transitions and ceding possession is a setup he's best utilised in and that setup isn't going to bring about a big enough improvement to challenge the top teams.

He along with Ugarte should be moved on imo.

I agree with this for the most part, but there are some pretty big caveats. With Casemiro, if we can get him to agree a heavily reduced contract, his experience and professionalism are great to have in the dressing room. With Ugarte, we should only be moving him on if we bring in a couple of starters in midfield, as we're so light there at the moment.

 

[Lash]

I agree with this for the most part, but there are some pretty big caveats. With Casemiro, if we can get him to agree a heavily reduced contract, his experience and professionalism are great to have in the dressing room. With Ugarte, we should only be moving him on if we bring in a couple of starters in midfield, as we're so light there at the moment.

Nah, Ugarte has unfortunately well gone past his sell by date. I have a soft spot for him too, but very little use in keeping him as a body. He doesn't bring anything good enough that out weighs his poor performances.

 

[The Hilton]

Nah, Ugarte has unfortunately well gone past his sell by date. I have a soft spot for him too, but very little use in keeping him as a body. He doesn't bring anything good enough that out weighs his poor performances.

We do need bodies though, he needs to be replaced by someone. With Bruno playing further forward again, we currently have 3 senior midfielders. Casemiro doesn't have the legs for a full 90 anymore, so it basically guarantees game time for Ugarte. We can let him go in the summer, but only if we have at least one replacement, ideally two so we have some depth.

 

[NZT-One]

Nah, Ugarte has unfortunately well gone past his sell by date. I have a soft spot for him too, but very little use in keeping him as a body. He doesn't bring anything good enough that out weighs his poor performances.

I think, Ugarte is also one of the players that potentially thrives in a different environment. In the game against Villa, where we pressed, he did pretty well. For me, he is at least physically up for it pulling his own weight (if not even a bit of the weight of others) which is something we don't have in abundance. Selling him would mean realizing the loss on him - for a good price, say 25+ I'd do it though. For much less, I don't think it would hurt to keep him. The decision with him is so much connected with how we are planning to go forward. The decision whether we should go for a pressing approach or a more deep-to-midblock approach could/maybe even should be made by the DOF, not the coach. So we could decide on that. If the next one or two seasons see us moving towards a more pressing oriented style, I think, he is fine. If we don't, then sell him. With Casemiro, I probably wouldn't ask any questions. Just thank him and move on.

 

[Lash]

I think, Ugarte is also one of the players that potentially thrives in a different environment. In the game against Villa, where we pressed, he did pretty well. For me, he is at least physically up for it pulling his own weight (if not even a bit of the weight of others) which is something we don't have in abundance. Selling him would mean realizing the loss on him - for a good price, say 25+ I'd do it though. For much less, I don't think it would hurt to keep him. The decision with him is so much connected with how we are planning to go forward. The decision whether we should go for a pressing approach or a more deep-to-midblock approach could/maybe even should be made by the DOF, not the coach. So we could decide on that. If the next one or two seasons see us moving towards a more pressing oriented style, I think, he is fine. If we don't, then sell him. With Casemiro, I probably wouldn't ask any questions. Just thank him and move on.

I think he's just too chaotic to really be anything than off the bench at the moment, because he will put the rest of the team in trouble for some of the stupid things he'll do. I think his best work comes at forcing turnovers higher up and we're not set up for that. I like him, I think he could have a place in a certain system, but I just don't feel the need to compromise with Ugarte. With Casemiro, you're compromising because at least your gaining that world class mentality and experience.

 

[NZT-One]

I think he's just too chaotic to really be anything than off the bench at the moment, because he will put the rest of the team in trouble for some of the stupid things he'll do. I think his best work comes at forcing turnovers higher up and we're not set up for that. I like him, I think he could have a place in a certain system, but I just don't feel the need to compromise with Ugarte. With Casemiro, you're compromising because at least your gaining that world class mentality and experience.

Casemiros professionalism is definitely a great asset but I think the experience part is a bit overstated. I'd get it if we assume to be in tight title races or knock out stages and battling on multiple fronts but I'd say thats unlikely enough to risk ending up with a little less experience. Experience is important, but I think, we have enough of it around and what the team needs currently, is probably more an influx of new impulses than the experience of back up players. Even if we get in one of the situations I mentioned earlier, Casemiro being there or not won't move the needle since the team doesn't have too many players that are used to actually be in contention.

Might also be a case of me getting really fickle. The activities in this and the Maguire thread are the stuff of nightmares to me and I feel we are just one decent game of Shaw away from adding another thread to that infamous list...

 

[Adnan]

I agree with this for the most part, but there are some pretty big caveats. With Casemiro, if we can get him to agree a heavily reduced contract, his experience and professionalism are great to have in the dressing room. With Ugarte, we should only be moving him on if we bring in a couple of starters in midfield, as we're so light there at the moment.

That's a fair point about Casemiro.

And to be honest with you, I think at least two central midfielders have to be brought to the club.

 

[Xeque_279]

Proper professional this guy, honestly wouldn't mind having him around if we can get him to reduce his wages. Would be really good for any new young signings to learn from him.

 

[Mcking]

We should be looking to extend him by one year alongside two new central midfielders. Move on Ugarte.

 

[Bondi77]

We should be looking to extend him by one year alongside two new central midfielders. Move on Ugarte.

So let's just say we brought in two mids and they were any of : Baleba, Anderson, Kone or Wharton, what would be the point of keeping Casemiro at 200k a week?

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Don't regret his transfer at all. Sure his wages are too high but we would have been in a way darker place these last 4 seasons without him.

Would have likely been better if we got Rice or Caicedo at the time, but after failing to get De Jong (and Rice), we couldn't have done much better than this guy.

Me neither. He showed his first season what it's like to have a world class midfielder in the team. He was shocking for the next two season under EtH and EtH/Amorim, but been very good overall this season. To have won all that he has then and then dig in to have this resurgence after two seasons of being written off is very admirable.

 

[Lash]

Casemiros professionalism is definitely a great asset but I think the experience part is a bit overstated. I'd get it if we assume to be in tight title races or knock out stages and battling on multiple fronts but I'd say thats unlikely enough to risk ending up with a little less experience. Experience is important, but I think, we have enough of it around and what the team needs currently, is probably more an influx of new impulses than the experience of back up players. Even if we get in one of the situations I mentioned earlier, Casemiro being there or not won't move the needle since the team doesn't have too many players that are used to actually be in contention.

Might also be a case of me getting really fickle. The activities in this and the Maguire thread are the stuff of nightmares to me and I feel we are just one decent game of Shaw away from adding another thread to that infamous list...

That's a bit unfair, he has more final appearances than probably all our team combined. Probably played more knockout CL games too. I'm not saying he should be always starting these matches, but he can set the tone and preperation for games like this. I think that is valuable, not worth the wage he's currently getting, but it's definitely got a value.

I think Maguire is good, but he's not really got enough on his CV to warrant keeping, same with Shaw. They are good, but they get paid like they're mainstays in top teams, which they aren't unfortunately. Good just doesn't cut it any more if we're looking to propel ourselves in to contention for trophies.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Me neither. He showed his first season what it's like to have a world class midfielder in the team. He was shocking for the next two season under EtH and EtH/Amorim, but been very good overall this season. To have won all that he has then and then dig in to have this resurgence after two seasons of being written off is very admirable.

I think EtH exposed him, I'm not sure any midfielder in the world could do what EtH required of him to do. Midfield was completely unbalanced and exposed his weaknesses even further. Wouldn't blame Casemiro for that at all. Than 2nd season was poor but think he was ultimately fine in his 3rd season and he's been good this season.

 

[AjaxCunian]

His fbref; https://fbref.com/en/players/4d224fe8/Casemiro

It will be hard to improve on this.

 

[Jordan_mufc]

So let's just say we brought in two mids and they were any of : Baleba, Anderson, Kone or Wharton, what would be the point of keeping Casemiro at 200k a week?

Letting two midfielders leave and bringing in 3 new ones is a big upheaval and very risky.

Letting Ugarte leave, keeping Casemiro and buying 2 new CMs is a much better transition. Plus he still has a lot to offer when used sparingly

 

[Idxomer]

His fbref; https://fbref.com/en/players/4d224fe8/Casemiro

It will be hard to improve on this.

In certain aspects, such as defensive contributions and creativity.

Improvements on his ball carrying, pass completion, and his lack of pace should be much easier.

 

[Drainy]

People seem to have forgotten this.

You can go to City or Chelsea and maybe in recent years you win more major medals but you're forever associated with what those clubs represent.

You get maybe one chance to choose between City or United in life as a footballer and there is a pride in our history that only Liverpool or maybe Arsenal at a stretch can even compete with.

 

[mctrials23]

We keep him for another season if he dramatically reduces his wage demands. We move him on if he doesn't. Great player to have in the squad but part of that reliance currently is because we don't really have anyone else. If we buy 2 quality CMs in the summer he will be part of the rotation in all likelihood and you don't pay £300k/week for a rotation player.

 

[NZT-One]

That's a fair point about Casemiro.

And to be honest with you, I think at least two central midfielders have to be brought to the club.

I'd go as far as saying we should bring in two players that are expected to start and one player who is expected to take a rotational role. Be it a veteran or an up and coming player.

And to those that will jump up and say thats impossible to do financially - it is very possible as soon as you start picking options based on required skillsets and not just based on name and hype. Which isn't saying that reputation shouldn't be a factor. But boxing ourselves in thinking that only the 100 million options could cut it isn't a smart way forwards.

People seem to have forgotten this.

You can go to City or Chelsea and maybe in recent years you win more major medals but you're forever associated with what those clubs represent.

You get maybe one chance to choose between City or United in life as a footballer and there is a pride in our history that only Liverpool or maybe Arsenal at a stretch can even compete with.

As good as this sounds but wouldn't it imply that Casemiro choose us over other clubs? I can't remember hearing about any other clubs offering what we offered to Real Madrid and potentially also what we offered to him in terms of wages... If you pick from just one option, I'd say the "soft factors" shouldn't be overestimated.

 

[Drainy]

I'd go as far as saying we should bring in two players that are expected to start and one player who is expected to take a rotational role. Be it a veteran or an up and coming player.

And to those that will jump up and say thats impossible to do financially - it is very possible as soon as you start picking options based on required skillsets and not just based on name and hype. Which isn't saying that reputation shouldn't be a factor. But boxing ourselves in thinking that only the 100 million options could cut it isn't a smart way forwards.

As good as this sounds but wouldn't it imply that Casemiro choose us over other clubs? I can't remember hearing about any other clubs offering what we offered to Real Madrid and potentially also what we offered to him in terms of wages... If you pick from just one option, I'd say the "soft factors" shouldn't be overestimated.

Casemiro could have stayed if he wanted.

Perez was in tears the day he sold Casemiro and allowed him to choose

 

[BadNews]

If we get Europe, he should be at least asked to stay on reduced wages.
Club will sign new CMs, but they need to slot perfectly from first game but that is big task.
And not to mention that this would be first Europa experience for many players. Mbuemo, Cunha, Heaven, Lemmens ect... His experience would be valuable same as Modric's at AcMilan.
I know that people trow "world class" easily, but he was in his pomp and that is something you can't easily replace.
Just look at RM without their's CM trio.

 

[NZT-One]

Casemiro could have stayed if he wanted.

Perez was in tears the day he sold Casemiro and allowed him to choose

Yeah, nah I struggle to believe that. They just spend 120 million on two up and coming French midfielders. I am sure Perez might have loved Casemiro but tears were more likely in connection of him not being able to believe their luck that somebody actually was ready to finance two thirds of their re-juvenation project.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah, nah I struggle to believe that. They just spend 120 million on two up and coming French midfielders. I am sure Perez might have loved Casemiro but tears were more likely in connection of him not being able to believe their luck that somebody actually was ready to finance two thirds of their re-juvenation project.

I struggle to believe Perez wanted to hang a post Kroos, Modric future on a couple of “up and coming midfielders”.

But each to their own.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

I'd keep him for another season if we're able to agree a deal with him on reduced wages. We'll need the depth if we qualify for Europe next season and Casemiro is still capable as long as his minutes are managed sensibly.

Yeah. Especially as a replacement rotation option would cost us what 20-30 million?

 

[Drainy]

Yeah, nah I struggle to believe that. They just spend 120 million on two up and coming French midfielders. I am sure Perez might have loved Casemiro but tears were more likely in connection of him not being able to believe their luck that somebody actually was ready to finance two thirds of their re-juvenation project.

So was Perez lying to the world when he said he'd put the offer to Casemiro and let him decide?

He was genuinely sad about Casemiro leaving. Don't be a twat. Casemiro is a legend of football, have some respect.

Also the talk was we were in touch with Casemiro's team a long time before Real signed two young inexperienced midfielders and the thought was Perez wanted him to stay while they developed.

 

[NZT-One]

I struggle to believe Perez wanted to hang a post Kroos, Modric future on a couple of “up and coming midfielders”.

But each to their own.

Maybe "future" is a little too big for it but they did bring in Tchouameni and Camavinga for good money and with high reputations. I don't think, those two were expected to take over "everything" from Modric, Kroos and Casemiro but I don't think it is too crazy to assume that they were brought in to replace Casemiro.

 

[Drainy]

Maybe "future" is a little too big for it but they did bring in Tchouameni and Camavinga for good money and with high reputations. I don't think, those two were expected to take over "everything" from Modric, Kroos and Casemiro but I don't think it is too crazy to assume that they were brought in to replace Casemiro.

After a season or two.

There is no world where they were an immediate upgrade on Casemiro and they haven't been

 

[NZT-One]

So was Perez lying to the world when he said he'd put the offer to Casemiro and let him decide?

Don't know about lying but he certainly wouldn't be the first executive in history to present the story in a certain way that could also be presented differently.

He was genuinely sad about Casemiro leaving. Don't be a twat. Casemiro is a legend of football, have some respect.

Lets just not.

Also the talk was we were in touch with Casemiro's team a long time before Real signed two young inexperienced midfielders and the thought was Perez wanted him to stay while they developed.

Again - if you want to believe that, ok. I am not buying it. It isn't as if the prospect of playing for United was a such a hot slice that everybody would jump on at the time (hasn't changed unfortunately). Also, we just chased FDJ for almost all summer, only to end up buying a completely different type of midfielder so how likely is it, that this was a well prepared plan. And even if - if you spend a long time planning the addition of an ageing midfielder for big money, then I'd consider it a pretty bad plan. Not saying it can't be true, but to me it reeks of "making it sound good".

 

[NZT-One]

After a season or two.

There is no world where they were an immediate upgrade on Casemiro and they haven't been

Ok, even if that was the plan - a buyer coming onto the scene ready to pay a very good amount for a player you want to fade out, don't you think THATS a good business opportunity? Something that a fox like Perez would surely recognize?

 

[neverdie]

There is no world where they were an immediate upgrade on Casemiro and they haven't been

Tchouameni and Camavinga are two of my favourite players in world football. Have been for a while. I have no idea how they are getting on, now, at all, because of us being terrible for so long (especially under Ten Hag, which sort of broke me), I couldn't look into European too much. But I will say this, when I was watching them regularly each absolutely had the potential to be among the best in the world in their positions.

 

[Drainy]

Ok, even if that was the plan - a buyer coming onto the scene ready to pay a very good amount for a player you want to fade out, don't you think THATS a good business opportunity? Something that a fox like Perez would surely recognize?

Its like Bruno in the summer.

You respect the player, you put the offer to the player.

Real Madrid are a club with a win at all costs mentality. They didn't need to sell. If Casemiro wanted to stay he stays and makes them better.

He doesn't choose to leave for any old club.

 

[Drainy]

Tchouameni and Camavinga are two of my favourite players in world football. Have been for a while. I have no idea how they are getting on, now, at all, because of us being terrible for so long (especially under Ten Hag, which sort of broke me), I couldn't look into European too much. But I will say this, when I was watching them regularly each absolutely had the potential to be among the best in the world in their positions.

At 18 and 20 they aren't starting players at Real Madrid over a 31 year old Casemiro.

It was an immediate hit to the team to sell him.

 

[NZT-One]

Its like Bruno in the summer.

You respect the player, you put the offer to the player.

Real Madrid are a club with a win at all costs mentality. They didn't need to sell. If Casemiro wanted to stay he stays and makes them better.

He doesn't choose to leave for any old club.

I don't know what to tell you. Casemiro got a new contract at United. Few years running, very very good salary. Thats something he most likely wouldn't have gotten at Madrid. Madrid also got offered a fee that almost completely balanced their spending on Tchouameni. The Casemiro transfer was a win-win-win* situation with the asterisk going to United who got the player they wanted but for terrible conditions.
Both Perez and Casemiro would have been fools not to try to get this deal through. And of course Perez wouldn't have been able to force him out due to his contract.

It didn't cost them anything to come out and make themselves and each other look as good as possible -
- United with a story that this wasn't reactionary at all but well planned (it isn't well planned to pay big money to a player deemed ageing rapidly),
- Perez with a story where he said Casemiro, a well respected player, had to choose and
- Casemiro with the story that he is glad to play for the biggest clubs in the world

Thats how PR works. And thats not me saying anybody lied or someone is evil. I am just saying that this is noise we shouldn't put too much emphasis on.

 

[NZT-One]

At 18 and 20 they aren't starting players at Real Madrid over a 31 year old Casemiro.

It was an immediate hit to the team to sell him.

Tchouameni started in the World Cup final that year. Camavinga came on in the 71st minute. Lets not paint them as two cheap punts you bring in and plan to bed them in for 2-3 years.

 

[Drainy]

I don't know what to tell you. Casemiro got a new contract at United. Few years running, very very good salary. Thats something he most likely wouldn't have gotten at Madrid. Madrid also got offered a fee that almost completely balanced their spending on Tchouameni. The Casemiro transfer was a win-win-win* situation with the asterisk going to United who got the player they wanted but for terrible conditions.
Both Perez and Casemiro would have been fools not to try to get this deal through. And of course Perez wouldn't have been able to force him out due to his contract.

It didn't cost them anything to come out and make each other as good as possible - United with a story that this wasn't reactionary at all but well planned (it isn't well planned to pay big money to a player deemed ageing rapidly), Perez with a story where he said Casemiro, a well respected player, had to choose and Casemiro with the story that he is glad to play for the biggest clubs in the world. Thats how PR works. And thats not me saying anybody lied or someone is evil. I am just saying that this is noise we shouldn't put too much emphasis on.

You must live in misery. Everything is spin and PR.

Casemiro had years left in his tank for Real in the same way Kroos and Modric had.
He got a choice and was happy to join.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

After a season or two.

There is no world where they were an immediate upgrade on Casemiro and they haven't been

Precisely. The poster here is using his own confirmation bias to negate what Perez himself has said regarding Casemiro’s departure.

In the post above, he’s made up his own novel to explain the situation so that it fits in with his confirmation bias.

 

[Drainy]

Tchouameni started in the World Cup final that year. Camavinga came on in the 71st minute. Lets not paint them as two cheap punts you bring in and plan to bed them in for 2-3 years.

Not cheap punts but not slightly past prime Casemiro either. Neither have been good enough to replace him even now

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

After a season or two.

There is no world where they were an immediate upgrade on Casemiro and they haven't been

Instead of making up stories I just take it at face value, the player himself was offered an excellent salary and a great new challenge after winning everything he could multiple times at Madrid.
With the experienced players in their midfield coming to the end of their careers it’s very unlikely Perez wanted to sell Casemiro, and it wasn’t an Isak sum of money that was gonna make such a big deal to Madrid and their finances.
Perez says that he didn’t want Cas to leave at that point, I’m not surprised, they still haven’t replaced him.

 

[NZT-One]

Precisely. The poster here is using his own confirmation bias to negate what Perez himself has said regarding Casemiro’s departure.

In the post above, he’s made up his own novel to explain the situation so that it fits in with his confirmation bias.

I would appreciate to keep it to the posts, not the poster. And for what its worth, there were a lot of posters on here, who were critical of the Casemiro transfer when it happened for the reasons I layed out. You and Drainy might not have been in that group and thats fine but I think it is a bit disingenious to claim that I write fiction here.