Casemiro - Kroos - Modric

Pexbo

Online influencer who has never watched Star Wars
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
53,109
Location
Brizzle
Modric is better than Scholes ever was and Scholes actually said he modelled his game on Kroos at the end of his career, he was that big of a fan. Two all-time great midfielders.

Kroos is currently better than Modric but Modric reached a higher level overall. Kroos from 2013 until about 2016 was different class, but had a few slower years before bouncing back recently.
Is this true? Scholes retired in 2013 which is the season Kroos really started to kick on aged 23. Scholes had a partner in Carrick who was doing the same role as Kroos to a higher level up until that point.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
5,468
Great Midfield trio, play off each other very well, close to the level of Xavi, Iniesta & Bosquet, but i would say the Barca trio are better, especially Iniesta who was unbelievable.

What i like about the Madrid & Barca midfield trio beside their obvious quality is the length they played together (at least 5 full seasons together), which provides some sort of solid stability to the team (they also had stable back 4 & GK).

Good shout is City's trio of Fernandinho, KdB & D.Silva, of course not as good as the Barca or Madrid trio, but also instrumental to city's PL successes in 2018 & 2019
What did they do in Europe? Good players but levels below the setups we are commenting on here.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
5,468
Casemiro is really good and underrated at times although it would had been nice if Alonso had still been around to play alongside Modric and Kroos.
Not convinced Kroos and Madrid would work in a 3 without the combative nature of Casemiro alongside them. Alonso is an elite passer but less defensively astute and the last thing you need alongside the other pair is more passing ability.
 

KeanoMagicHat

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
358
Is this true? Scholes retired in 2013 which is the season Kroos really started to kick on aged 23. Scholes had a partner in Carrick who was doing the same role as Kroos to a higher level up until that point.

“I really like Toni Kroos. When I neared the end of my career, I followed him closely and tried to play like Kroos.

“I was a midfielder with an eye for the goal, but Kroos is one of the best midfield masterminds in the world.”

https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/archi...les-toni-kroos-manchester-united-real-madrid/

Was just at the very end of his career obviously, after he came out of retirement. Kroos played 51 games in 2011-12 as Bayern got to the CL final, so somewhat plausible. There's no doubt Scholes was a massive fan of Kroos anyway.

Scholes would never try to be like Carrick, after he played alongside Carrick for 7 or 8 years. Not a slight on Carrick's ability, but you don't try to be like your younger co-worker, it's a mentality thing.
 

KeanoMagicHat

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
358
Three all time great midfielders :D

But I do think Modric is better than Kroos. The latter has a better passing range but Modric has so much more to his game. His dribbling is special for a CM, he has a better engine, is more mobile etc
Modric's composure is amazing, he can't run like he used to but he's able to slow the game down to his level by passing from a stationary position or by walking, just because of that composure. Nobody can get the ball off him, plays the game how he wants it played. Kroos doesn't have that in his locker, Kroos has been able to be pressed. If you give Kroos freedom of the pitch to pick out passes like Liverpool did, then Kroos looks best, but Modric can do it better in the high press.
 

Amar__

Geriatric lover
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
19,452
Location
Sarajevo
Supports
MK Dons
That’s an awfully obtuse way of saying you have not really seen Casemiro play.
I have seen Cleverley play well next to Carrick too, Thiago looked like generational talent when he was next to Busquets and Iniesta, etc.

He is a good player, but nothing special.
 

Mike Smalling

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
1,422
Not quite at the level of the Xavi-Iniesta-Biscuits trio in my opinion, but it doesn't come much closer.

Modric is the stand-out of the three, and a genuine world class talent. He should go down as an all-time great. Not just for being a star player for the CL-winning Madrid side, but also for performing well in so many international tournaments. I remember him really catching the eye in the 2008 Euro's, which seems like a lifetime ago at this point.
 

simplyared

Full Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
3,674
Location
somewhere ouside the UK
Modric still cutting it at top level. 35 and putting in a performance like that. Seems like 100 yrs ago he was key player at Spurs. Amazing and great to see!
 

Lay

Incorrectly predicted the 2020 US Election
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
11,548
Location
England
Modric doing so well after being voted worst signing of the season in his first season at Madrid is a testament to his mental strength.

Brilliant footballer, right up there with Xavi and Iniesta
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
22,277
No chance, Casemiro is rated very highly across the globe.


10 goals between them in La Liga. That is over 20% of all Madrid goals. If you include assists, it's 48%. Casemiro is 2nd best goal scorer for them. Out of curiosity, what would be "big enough" goal threat in your opinion?
Well Xavi alone has almost as much goal contributions in his Barca career as Modric and Kroos have in their Spurs, Bayern and Madrid days combined.
Your stats speak more about how few goals Madrid are scoring than how prolific the midfield is. Gundogan alone destroys 10 goals spread among 3 players. Fecking McTominay alone has 7.
Again, youre talking about an elite, world class midfield and thats what it should be analysed as.
 

Kag

Full Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
16,594
Location
United Kingdom
Modric should probably be recognised as one of the greatest European midfielders of all time. I think he’s a little overlooked actually. He played like he was about 25 last night.

Kroos is also great. The two of them would have been proper United midfielders.
 

TheGame

Full Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Messages
8,080
Modric doing so well after being voted worst signing of the season in his first season at Madrid is a testament to his mental strength.

Brilliant footballer, right up there with Xavi and Iniesta
Amazing footballer, like those names you've said and Scholes, makes it look so simple when playing. A joy to watch.
 

OmarUnited4ever

Full Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
251
Location
Malaysia
What did they do in Europe? Good players but levels below the setups we are commenting on here.
Agreed, hence why i said "good shout" and "not as good"

reason i mentioned them is the similarities of the setup between the 3 trios.

Roles wise: (= is similar not equal)

Bosquet = Casmeiro = Fernandinho (DM)
Xavi = Kroos = KdB (CM)
Ineista = Modric = D.Silva (CM)

KdB & D.Silva are more AMs to be honest but there are similarities.
 

Oranges038

Full Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
1,059
The 3 of them together are excellent. Modric wad every where last night contolled the game superbly. Definitely up there as one of the best midfields of recent times.

Remember hearing about him as early as 2003/2004 being linked to clubs and touted as one of the future world class stars. I generally don't take these things seriously but he was always one of my first buys on FM. Was actually disappointed when he went to Spurs and saw how good he was for them.
 

Iker Quesadillas

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Messages
47
Supports
Real Madrid
Well Xavi alone has almost as much goal contributions in his Barca career as Modric and Kroos have in their Spurs, Bayern and Madrid days combined.
Your stats speak more about how few goals Madrid are scoring than how prolific the midfield is. Gundogan alone destroys 10 goals spread among 3 players. Fecking McTominay alone has 7.
Again, youre talking about an elite, world class midfield and thats what it should be analysed as.
They've won a lot of titles, though. They've won 3 CLs out of 5 they've competed in together. That suggests their performance is 'enough.' When you are seeing that McTominay has 7 goal contributions when these guys only have 10 that is telling you to find a better parameter to compare midfielders by.

You say that Xavi has as many goal contributions as Modric and Kroos have combined. Sure. But Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets won 2 CLs out of 6 in which they played as starters, a worse record than Modric-Kroos-Casemiro. I could just as well look at that and say "Xavi and Iniesta didn't have enough goal contributions. If they'd had, maybe they could have won more titles."

On their best day, Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets looked unstoppable. But they weren't; they lost and drew games in Europe that they should have won.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
22,277
They've won a lot of titles, though. They've won 3 CLs out of 5 they've competed in together. That suggests their performance is 'enough.' When you are seeing that McTominay has 7 goal contributions when these guys only have 10 that is telling you to find a better parameter to compare midfielders by.

You say that Xavi has as many goal contributions as Modric and Kroos have combined. Sure. But Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets won 2 CLs out of 6 in which they played as starters, a worse record than Modric-Kroos-Casemiro. I could just as well look at that and say "Xavi and Iniesta didn't have enough goal contributions. If they'd had, maybe they could have won more titles."

On their best day, Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets looked unstoppable. But they weren't; they lost and drew games in Europe that they should have won.
They won a lot because Ronaldo covered a lot of their flaws. That was my original point. Barca midfield basically won the WC and EC without Messi.
Im not saying theyre a bad midfield, quite the opposite. Im saying they arent among the best ever because they are slightly lacking going forward and the standards should be stupidly high for conversations like this. . Even defensively they havent been all that, they concede in every big game they play.
 

Synco

Lucio's #1 Fan
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
5,387
They won a lot because Ronaldo covered a lot of their flaws. That was my original point. Barca midfield basically won the WC and EC without Messi.
Im not saying theyre a bad midfield, quite the opposite. Im saying they arent among the best ever because they are slightly lacking going forward and the standards should be stupidly high for conversations like this. . Even defensively they havent been all that, they concede in every big game they play.
Just as they in turn covered for a lot of flaws which gung-ho/high impact players like Ronaldo, Marcelo, and others inevitably brought with them. Most of all the lack of control and structure. Without it, all the match winners in the world won't bring you that level of success, you need to get them into the position to succeed first.

Then there's Casemiro, who was the much needed specialist for mitigating the many defensive flaws of that team (again starting from the front), but playing him also required the playmaking ability and press resistance of Modric and Kroos. As @giorno said on the last page, it's about the mix in the team, and that mix worked very well, at least in the CL. Each part carried the other and was carried in return. Even if the whole construct was certainly a bit shaky & erratic at times.

But I also agree that the Barca trio was beyond everyone.
 
Last edited:

Iker Quesadillas

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Messages
47
Supports
Real Madrid
They won a lot because Ronaldo covered a lot of their flaws. That was my original point. Barca midfield basically won the WC and EC without Messi.
So if Real Madrid win the CL this season, you will have to concede that your entire analysis was wrong. And if they reach the final, then at least half wrong. Correct?

The freewheeling, goalscoring Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets midfield scored two goals in the World Cup and zero in the 2012 Euros. At the 2008 Euros, without Busquets, they scored one goal. Some real swashbuckers, these guys.
 
Last edited:

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
17,900
Supports
Real Madrid
They won a lot because Ronaldo covered a lot of their flaws. That was my original point. Barca midfield basically won the WC and EC without Messi.
I can hear david villa clear his throat in the corner...
 

Superden

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
313
there was a moment in the second half when Casimero just casually idled over to salah (in full flight) and took the ball of him without a second thought. archetypal taking candy off a baby. magnificent.
 

Real Name

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
370
Yep, it worries me for England in the Euros.
Our, Croatian midfield is our forte and him playing like that is a blessing. On the other hand I'm worried about your forwards against our defence.
 

Real Name

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
370
I was being facetious, but I don't really see Modric heir in Kovacic. This trio is up there with elite's in history though.
Yeah. I'm glad he found his place and position at Chelsea. He's still finding himself in the national team.
 

Acheron

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
1,662
Supports
Real Madrid
Remember hearing about him as early as 2003/2004 being linked to clubs and touted as one of the future world class stars. I generally don't take these things seriously but he was always one of my first buys on FM. Was actually disappointed when he went to Spurs and saw how good he was for them.
I didn't know much about him prior to signing him, in fact was still hoping Sahin could turn good for us and have a decent spell at Liverpool but didn't mind Modric as a good young player that would give us depth and he had the right profile to play alongside Xabi Alonso. I didn't get people questioning his signing from the get go, maybe it was just a way to keep attacking Mourinho but it was until he came in playing against United and deciding the tie where he won the support from all Real Madrid fans, or at least that's when I was convinced he was the real deal.
 

Brwned

Have you ever been in love before?
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
48,975
Modric should probably be recognised as one of the greatest European midfielders of all time. I think he’s a little overlooked actually. He played like he was about 25 last night.

Kroos is also great. The two of them would have been proper United midfielders.
I think his ballon d’Or already established him as one of the all time great midfielders - it’s a rare feat. There was some criticism at the time but he was widely acknowledged as doing something exceptional for club and country. For me he’s alongside Falcão and Matthaus as one of the most complete playmakers ever. There have been some better pure midfielders but his influence in so many phases of play was immense, with that lovely mix of grit and grace.
 

RooneyLegend

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
11,295
Xavi was definitely a better player than Modric, but Modric has been supreme quality for a long time now
Don't think you can say 'definitely' after all he's achieved. I personally prefer him to Xavi but can understand it either way. Prefer him to Scholes too but wouldn't be disappointed either way. I just feel he's better defensively than the others.
 

Theo88

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
62
I don’t think there’s much in it at all. In fact in certain situations I would prefer Modric.
I actually always felt like Modric offers something defensively too whereas Xavi not so much.

Xavi Iniesta Modric and Kroos are all time greats. It's often pointless to compare them and it should go down to personal perspectives.

I'd put them at the same level skill wise but considering the 3 CL titles I'd think Modric is just a touch better.

Also, to close, when CR7 played for Real it felt like everyone was accommodating his game. No arguments against that the guy was mental as a poacher.

Messi enabled his teammates somewhat more.
 

DaGOAT

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
65
Xavi had 30 assists in a season and would have won Ballon d’Or if not for Messi winning.

Won 4 CL playing an instrumental part in them. Won the 2008 Euros being named the best player of the tournament. Won the WC and Euros again.

While both playing in Spain Xavi on 2 out of 3 league titles vs Modric’s 0 league titles in the same time span.
Since 2012 when Modric arrived in Madrid he has actually only won 2 league titles in total. Not nearly good enough.

Give me Xavi’s abilities and accomplishments over Modric. Modric is a great player, but for me Xavi is top 5 all time midfielder and greater than Modric.
 

The Corinthian

Full Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
491
Xavi had 30 assists in a season and would have won Ballon d’Or if not for Messi winning.

Won 4 CL playing an instrumental part in them. Won the 2008 Euros being named the best player of the tournament. Won the WC and Euros again.

While both playing in Spain Xavi on 2 out of 3 league titles vs Modric’s 0 league titles in the same time span.
Since 2012 when Modric arrived in Madrid he has actually only won 2 league titles in total. Not nearly good enough.

Give me Xavi’s abilities and accomplishments over Modric. Modric is a great player, but for me Xavi is top 5 all time midfielder and greater than Modric.
Xavi didn't even make it off the bench in the 2006 final.
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
2,619
Agreed, hence why i said "good shout" and "not as good"

reason i mentioned them is the similarities of the setup between the 3 trios.

Roles wise: (= is similar not equal)

Bosquet = Casmeiro = Fernandinho (DM)
Xavi = Kroos = KdB (CM)
Ineista = Modric = D.Silva (CM)

KdB & D.Silva are more AMs to be honest but there are similarities.
I would say Modric is far more like Xavi and KbB than he is like Ineista and D.Silva.