Casemiro

Sigma

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Was my MOTM tonight, thought he was brilliant. Zidane really seems to like him and his inclusion in the team suits Zidane's side.
 

VorZakone

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He's a good player. @Bob Loblaw , did you change your mind or still think he's mediocre?

My MOTM was Gabi.
 

Bob Loblaw

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He's a good player. @Bob Loblaw , did you change your mind or still think he's mediocre?

My MOTM was Gabi.
Still mediocre. Still also think he provides a much needed balance to the Madrid side and that he played well tonight, though.

They need an upgrade in the summer and I suspect they'll look for it.
 

Smashin

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Was the best change Zidane did to Real, Casemiro instead of James/Isco, they needed a stronger midfield.
 

Bob Loblaw

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Was the best change Zidane did to Real, Casemiro instead of James/Isco, they needed a stronger midfield.
Worth pointing out it wasn't a change made by Zidane - Rafa had Casemiro in his side but was hounded out of it, while Zidane had Casemiro on the bench for 9 games until he finally caved in and played him.
 

The Stain

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Was the best change Zidane did to Real, Casemiro instead of James/Isco, they needed a stronger midfield.
Ye, i was asking the Madridistas why he didn't play him more a few months back. Especially after his Makelele quotes. Maybe Perez didn't want him to, who knows.
 

Šjor Bepo

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he wasnt even that good....
Atletico players freely received the ball time and time again in the pocket he needed to protect. Madrid were "lucky" that Griezmann had a off night and that Simeone for some reason plays fecking Torres in the striker position. He is the right type of player Madrid needed so he strengthen them a bit but him individually looks pretty average.
 

worldinmotion66

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He broke up a lot of the play today, and he is very difficult to knock off the ball. He's also a lot more intelligent and technically sound than I had thought previously.

I thought Gabi was sensational, but Casemiro was comfortably Real's best player tonight.
 

Ole's_toe_poke

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He looks good because he's the only one in their midfield and forward line who can actually defend.
 

Sly

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His evolution has been very good. I remember alot of Porto fans wanted him out of the starting eleven and pundits were pressuring Lopetegui to do so. Then he bounced back and ended his Porto season in good form. Now he's playing at Real Madrid and starting (playing well) in Champions League finals. Good for him.
 

izec

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Good game yesterday. Not the best DM around, but still a good player and important currently. I didnt rate him at all when he first started at Real a few years ago, but now looks a lot better.
 

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It's a strange thing to say that I would have the Leicester city defensive midfielder than a Real Madrid champions league winner
 

fontaine

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3 games, 3 draws since he got injured
coincidence?
 

carvajal

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I think that at the end of the season he will be one of the leaders in the steals stats.In my opinion he is slightly undervalued. Without him Modric and Kroos have to sweat too much which impact his contribution in attack.
It is incomprehensible that Madrid have not signed a substitute in the last market.
 

NYC

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Why isn't Fernando or Allan getting called up for Brazil?

Not Man City Fernando, but the kid from Gremio
 
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thepolice123

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They need him back in the team so that Modric and Kroos have the license to go forward. James has been tosh everytime I watch him this season. He's fast becoming their second Kaka.
 

Synco

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3 games, 3 draws since he got injured
coincidence?
Yes and no. His presence certainly helps in many defensive situations.

But the last game in which Casemiro played the whole 90 minutes was when Real was seriously outplayed by Sporting and should have lost. And I don't think Casemiro against Dortmund's full press would have been a pretty sight; The first of Dortmund's goals had nothing to do with the DM position, the second only peripherally. So the pure results don't tell the whole story.

The actual roots of Real Madrid's defensive problems lie elsewhere, in my opinion.
 

Fenomeno9

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Why isn't Fernando or Allan getting called up for Brazil?
Allan for some reason continues to be ignored despite playing well and I don't think Fernando will ever be called since he flirted with Portugal
 

ti vu

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Yes and no. His presence certainly helps in many defensive situations.

But the last game in which Casemiro played the whole 90 minutes was when Real was seriously outplayed by Sporting and should have lost. And I don't think Casemiro against Dortmund's full press would have been a pretty sight; The first of Dortmund's goals had nothing to do with the DM position, the second only peripherally. So the pure results don't tell the whole story.

The actual roots of Real Madrid's defensive problems lie elsewhere, in my opinion.
We had our Casemiro Pogba couple months back (you was on the side of Madrid can fit Pogba in their midfield just fine with Kroos and Modrix at the base, while I said that Pogba would take either Modric or Kroos while Casemiro at the #6 role brings the balance). Remember?

While the last 3 games are just small sample, and Sporting game Madrid overall as a team was not up to it, so not sufficient evidence to draw any conclusions, still missing Casemiro IMO would unbalance Madrid's midfield, especially against tougher teams (they're still quality enough against weak teams to get away with it).

Madrid's defensive unit as a whole has not clicked yet. And Pepe who was Madrid's best defender in the run in last season again found himself in and out of team since Madrid looks to transit Varane as starter.
 
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Synco

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We had our Casemiro Pogba couple months back (you was on the side of Madrid can fit in Madrid midfield just fine with Kroos and Modrix at the base, while I said that Pogba would take either Modric or Kroos while Casemiro at the #6 role brings the balance). Remember?

While the last 3 games are just small sample, and Sporting game Madrid overall as a team was not up to it, so not sufficient evidence to draw any conclusions, still missing Casemiro IMO would unbalance Madrid's midfield, especially against tougher teams (they're still quality enough against weak teams to get away with it).

Madrid's defensive unit as a whole has not clicked yet. And Pepe who was Madrid's best defender in the run in last season again found himself in and out of team since Madrid looks to transit Varane as starter.
Yes, I remember. And despite our apparently very different views on what 'balance' means and how it can be achieved, we actually agreed on one thing in the end: Real's front three with their ultra-direct offensive approach and lax defensive discipline dictates a lot of the team's tactical shape with and without the ball. That's what my last sentence is about here again, too.

And that's why I think that this:
Madrid's defensive unit as a whole has not clicked yet.
is not going to happen on a permanent, satisfactory basis, no matter what any coach tries to 'balance out' defending with only 6-8 outfield players in most situations. It's simply not possible. That gives Casemiro his justification as a starter, who at least makes up for it in part. But it's more a cover up (that also amplifies problems elsewhere) than an actual solution.

The only exception where I can see Real having a good defensive shape would be an extremely defensive setup like in the last Clásico, where the extra motivation allowed for a defensive discipline & intensity not normally seen from the BBC trio. (Though it has to be said that Bale is generally much more involved defensively than the other two.)
 

ti vu

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Yes, I remember. And despite our apparently very different views on what 'balance' means and how it can be achieved, we actually agreed on one thing in the end: Real's front three with their ultra-direct offensive approach and lax defensive discipline dictates a lot of the team's tactical shape with and without the ball. That's what my last sentence is about here again, too.

And that's why I think that this:

is not going to happen on a permanent, satisfactory basis, no matter what any coach tries to 'balance out' defending with only 6-8 outfield players in most situations. It's simply not possible. That gives Casemiro his justification as a starter, who at least makes up for it in part. But it's more a cover up (that also amplifies problems elsewhere) than an actual solution.

The only exception where I can see Real having a good defensive shape would be an extremely defensive setup like in the last Clásico, where the extra motivation allowed for a defensive discipline & intensity not normally seen from the BBC trio. (Though it has to be said that Bale is generally much more involved defensively than the other two.)
I agree. The problem as we previously agreed in our old discussion is the freedom of the front 3. For most games, these 3 were not given leeway in defensive jobs so the burden was placed on the rest. The problem is when the rest has not hit form then the whole system gets the trouble, even in attacking.

And weaker teams can sometimes pull some great performance vs Madrid occasionally. Since Madrid is not always ready defensively for the weaker teams, Madrid was hit by surprise (talking more about game like vs sporting Lisbon). Vs Barcelona, then it's different kind of game, tactic wise and motivation wise.

Ironically, it's Mourinho, a defensive coach who would get Madrid to play more consistently in the league and against weaker teams. The lax 2 coaches shortcoming in the league, but won the CL. So I agree Madrid doesn't have a permanent stable philosophy, since the demand of the fan base, the transfer policy, the politic, the manager's style... all factor and create this kind of unsatisfactory philosophy.
 
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prarek

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They need him back in the team so that Modric and Kroos have the license to go forward. James has been tosh everytime I watch him this season. He's fast becoming their second Kaka.
I agree. Modric and Kroos, as good as they are have got dominated far too many times in big games or when teams press well. They need Casemiro in there. Here's Modric losing the ball under pressure that leads to a goal. Doesn't always happen but i wouldn't feel safe against good teams with Modric or Kroos in front of defense.
 

Enigma_87

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I agree. Modric and Kroos, as good as they are have got dominated far too many times in big games or when teams press well. They need Casemiro in there. Here's Modric losing the ball under pressure that leads to a goal. Doesn't always happen but i wouldn't feel safe against good teams with Modric or Kroos in front of defense.
It's a bit of both tbh. Against a pressing midfield that can take the game up to them Modric/Kroos is not a good pair and there are plenty of examples, apart from that Villareal game. Against teams that sit deep they are good, because they have the positional sense to cut off counters and doesn't need much protection. They do have pretty deep and quality midfield so they have options.
 

Synco

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Against a pressing midfield that can take the game up to them Modric/Kroos is not a good pair and there are plenty of examples, apart from that Villareal game.
You'll find no CM in the world better at coping with pressing than Modric & Kroos (only Barca's is probably on par). This gif is an extremely rare instance, normally it's quite futile to press this pair. They can cleanly play out of almost every tight situation or draw a foul.
Modric and Kroos, as good as they are have got dominated far too many times in big games or when teams press well. They need Casemiro in there. Against teams that sit deep they are good, because they have the positional sense to cut off counters and doesn't need much protection.
Against high pressing? He's a security risk in situations like that, his strengths lie elsewhere.

I'd say the opposite of all this is true: There are legitimate concerns when Modric and Kroos are obliged to defend the vast spaces behind BBC, but there is absolutely no concern for that CM against the opponent's pressing.
 

Isotope

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Impressive young defensive midfielder. And he's not just "limited" ala Makelele or Mascherano, but has decent ball control and passing range.


Look like Mourinho type of player and what United need.
 
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totaalvoetbal

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Impressive young defensive midfielder. And he's not just "limited" ala Makelele or Mascherano, but has decent ball control and passing range.


Look like Mourinho type of player and what United need.
Mascherano isn't limited at all. He has improved leaps and bounds. His problem for barcelona is that he cannot pass between the lines as well as Busquets but his range is as good if not better than Casemiro's.
 

Isotope

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Mascherano isn't limited at all. He has improved leaps and bounds. His problem for barcelona is that he cannot pass between the lines as well as Busquets but his range is as good if not better than Casemiro's.
He still looked limited in the last world cup. But yeh, I don't watch Barca that much, other than in CL or classico.