Catalonia referendum| Catalonia declares independence from Spain

carvajal

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To be fair, there have been demonstrations in every city today in the morning, and that has been seen only in Madrid, and a very small part of it, which gives us bad image to the rest
 
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Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

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The same referendum took place in 2014 and no one gave a feck about it. Now Rajoy is behaving like this. Crook and cnut.
 

Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

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The winds it has something for the actual winds. When you receive winds coming from Spain, in winter are colder than usual and in summer dryer. And yes, the marriage and so, we still paying for the marriage with the castillian queen.

Spain is a Nation of nations, There is independentism big or small in many regions. Catalonia and Basque had been always the ones that went for it. Basque were more famous internationally because they had a terrorist group, but catalonia was always active. Actually we declared 2 mild independence in the 1930's for 3 days, they bomb us. Previous Civil war. SOme of the fascists blamed us for the Civil war, obviously not true, was for comunism.

Then you have Galicia, with their own language. Canary Island had their own terrorist group. Even Andalucia they have their own very small. Actually I think nobody likes to be spanish somehow :lol::lol:


Anyway, I must say I love spanish people, dated 1 for 6 years, several friends....and I am sure that speaking we could make a beautiful and diverse federation. But unfortunately, there are to many stupid people that votes the government that we have that they are still stuck in the old "glory" of Spain and the authoritarian rule of the dictatorship
Is galician language a sort of portuguese spoke with spanish accent?
 

4bars

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Is galician language a sort of portuguese spoke with spanish accent?
For what I understand, but I am no expert, though similar (and from a common origin) they are different enough to be considered different languages. Portugal, actually was at some point part of the Galician kingdom. Sometimes you don´t have to look for an explanation about languages " is catalan a mixture with french and spanish"? "Is galician a language a sort of portuguese spoke with spanish accent?". They are simply romanic languages without a state and if galicia and catalonia would have their own estate, nobody would be asking these questions. I am not saying that annoyed, I am just explaining. Is like if italian would not be and estate, they would ask: Is Italian a mixture of french and spanish?"

Nope, all that language resembles at certain degree one to each other because they come from the same ancestors, ones more than others for proximity and for the influence that one language has to another.
 

4bars

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To be fair, there have been demonstrations in every city today in the morning, and that has been seen only in Madrid, and a very small part of it, which gives us bad image to the rest
Not that small...In barcelona, a concentration of 5000 people tried to ripped a banner that said "more democracy" Just that, no colors and hanged by the mayor of barcelona that is not pro independentist even with all the pressure that she received. But probably they didn´t like democracy


In several towns, people jeering the Guardia Civil with the chant "a por ellos" ("go for them" more or less) like they were going to the front fighting a war. And I remark the word "ellos" meaning we are them, so not part of spain and someone that has to be fought.



And that just gatherings of a few hundreds or thousands. In catalonia we have been 5 years with millions, not even a glass broken (only now when the guardia civil started the recpression) not that chants.

Or like a few days ago, a person with a spanish flag in the middle of tens and hundreds of thousands demonstration and nothing happens


Meanwhile, 200 unionist people goes like that a few days ago with people with a independentist flag in barcelona


There is always stupids everywhere in every ideology. But the ones that we go out is ALL so they get diluted and our consign is clear, no violence. with the last 10 day repression had been difficult to hold with some cars from Guardia Civil. But the unionist that goes in demonstrations, most of the times they have very fascist and very violent people. Spanish people that wants catalunya to remain are perfectly fine, and the same kind as catalans, but you send the retardeds to participate in the demonstrations not our fault :lol::lol:

There had been several demonstrations in several cities in Spain in favour of Catalonia's referendum, lots of people in favour of the freedom of vote and expression and guess what, not a single incident. And that people don´t want Catalonia to leave, but they don´t want us to stay by force, and with that kind of people we would stay in Spain, because there are more things that unite us than separate us, but the spanish government is the heir of a dictatorship and unfortunately, lots of people like the way they are acting, repressing us and do what it takes not to vote
 
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4bars

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so far I want to share some images from the last days:


11 september. Catalonia national day. More thatn 1 million people signing the anthem. Too patriotic for my taste in normal circumstances but in this moments it gives me the chills:



Just a few towns 10 days ago when the Guardia Civil entered to Catalonia repression mode





3 days ago. Farmers in Barcelona to organize barricades




Firefighters shouting "I will vote"


this weekend, barricades to protect the electoral collegues everywhere in catalunya









Families spending the weekend inside the electoral collegues to avoid the precinct and protect the coming of the ballot boxes and ballots. Thousands of people, every single town and city

some outside now at 5-6 oclock in the morning under the rain








This is just tiny portion of all the pictures all around the country. Of course, some of the unionist shoot with bibi guns some of them and throw them eggs. Again, we react with no violence.


Some personalities like Chomsky in favour of the selfdetermination (not about independence)

http://www.cataloniavotes.eu/en/40-...ties-support-the-let-catalans-vote-manifesto/

UN manifesto against the repression in Spain

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22176&LangID=E


This is only stoppable by Spain going full force. 80% of catalan society being independentist or not wants to vote, Everybody is invested in it till the end.

I am in Canada, I will not sleep. I think we deserve a chance to have that vote, we did it peacufully, against all odds we arrived till here and the government of spain only offered their smirks, disdain, and finally repression.

Wish us luck even if it is only for nobody to get hurt, not civilian not the police.

Last news is that all the police went out of the ports. They are coming
 
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4bars

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At this moment, the catalan police (Mossos), are going to the college, they speak with them and they leave. They are in our side but they can't go against the orders of the government till a certain point. They will not charge or take people ou, but they will not side with us as well, difficult position.

Let's see what the Guardia Civil is going to do. The doors opens in 1 hour and 40 minutes
 

4bars

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Just think a bit, XXI century in europe, normal people defending and organizing against military police, the place where to vote.
 

Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

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For what I understand, but I am no expert, though similar (and from a common origin) they are different enough to be considered different languages. Portugal, actually was at some point part of the Galician kingdom. Sometimes you don´t have to look for an explanation about languages " is catalan a mixture with french and spanish"? "Is galician a language a sort of portuguese spoke with spanish accent?". They are simply romanic languages without a state and if galicia and catalonia would have their own estate, nobody would be asking these questions. I am not saying that annoyed, I am just explaining. Is like if italian would not be and estate, they would ask: Is Italian a mixture of french and spanish?"

Nope, all that language resembles at certain degree one to each other because they come from the same ancestors, ones more than others for proximity and for the influence that one language has to another.
Thanks for this very good explanation. I asked this because listening to galician it sounds very similar to portuguese.
 

Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

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At this moment, the catalan police (Mossos), are going to the college, they speak with them and they leave. They are in our side but they can't go against the orders of the government till a certain point. They will not charge or take people ou, but they will not side with us as well, difficult position.

Let's see what the Guardia Civil is going to do. The doors opens in 1 hour and 40 minutes
Mossos d'Esquadra behaving very well.
 

4bars

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Guardia Civil starts to charge where the president of catalonia has to vote. People on the ground and crying. Other places too. It started
 

4bars

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Thanks for this very good explanation. I asked this because listening to galician it sounds very similar to portuguese.
No worries, It is similar, they are, after all neigbours and they shared kingdom after all
 

4bars

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breaking doors to enter. Madness!!
 

carvajal

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My cousin is in one of the ships with Policía Nacional. He has already been some months in Cataluña. Some days ago some kids, encouraged by teachers were insulting them. He told me that was the worst thing of all this.
After talking with some mates from Catalan police (Mossos) told me that there is a lot of internal pressure. They didn´t receive direct orders. Besides they are afraid of being against independentist colleagues.
CUP has already announced some instructions for street guerrillas. It will be a long day
 

4bars

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My cousin is in one of the ships with Policía Nacional. He has already been some months in Cataluña. Some days ago some kids, encouraged by teachers were insulting them. He told me that was the worst thing of all this.
After talking with some mates from Catalan police (Mossos) told me that there is a lot of internal pressure. They didn´t receive direct orders. Besides they are afraid of being against independentist colleagues.
CUP has already announced some instructions for street guerrillas. It will be a long day

CUP didnt instruct shit. CUP said over and over act peacful and no violence. That's utter BS from spanish media.

I do not doubt that happened to youor cousin. They tried to made me shut up in spain for speaking in catalan with my friend. And that is what it is, stupidity.

But trying to justify this police action for a referendum when they didn´t do anything like that for corruption or with ETA in basque country is shameful. Spanish government is Shameful.

I repeat, XXI century a government avoiding voting and know what the population want.
 

rcoobc

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It's hard to see how anyone but the Spainish government are the bad guys in this.







 

carvajal

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CUP didnt instruct shit. CUP said over and over act peacful and no violence. That's utter BS from spanish media.

I do not doubt that happened to youor cousin. They tried to made me shut up in spain for speaking in catalan with my friend. And that is what it is, stupidity.

But trying to justify this police action for a referendum when they didn´t do anything like that for corruption or with ETA in basque country is shameful. Spanish government is Shameful.

I repeat, XXI century a government avoiding voting and know what the population want.
https://www.dolcacatalunya.com/2017/09/la-cup-difunde-manual-terrorismo-callejero-1/
and you will will say that "democracy" justifies everything. It doesn´t matter if it´s against the laws. ETA didn´t organize a referendum.Not the best example.
The base of every country is the integrity and defend it. Luckily they are showing some presence.
 

4bars

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https://www.dolcacatalunya.com/2017/09/la-cup-difunde-manual-terrorismo-callejero-1/
and you will will say that "democracy" justifies everything. It doesn´t matter if it´s against the laws. ETA didn´t organize a referendum.Not the best example.
The base of every country is the integrity and defend it. Luckily they are showing some presence.

Dolça catalunya is well known webpage to give false information against independentists. Makes reference to a "newspaper" that is a panflet of the spanish alt-right. There is not even a picture of that document. Utter lies. CUP is too smart to do that. Is just to descredit the independentism

Our dictatorship had laws, had judges and had trials. Law it does not equal justice
 

4bars

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Guardia Civil entering to the electoral colleges, people singing "we are peaceful people" hands up....That´s our guerrilla
 

carvajal

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Dolça catalunya is well known webpage to give false information against independentists. Makes reference to a "newspaper" that is a panflet of the spanish alt-right. There is not even a picture of that document. Utter lies. CUP is too smart to do that. Is just to descredit the independentism

Our dictatorship had laws, had judges and had trials. Law it does not equel justice
Come on...false information? CUP is in their perfect environment. The independentism discredit themselves saying that Serrat is a facha.He and all the traitors who don´t buy the idea.
Right now parents using their kids as a shield against the police. The rest are too busy doing videos, trying to get something juicy for twitter
 

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I love stuff like this...particularly the arguments from those who want to hold on to regions that want to breakaway.

You want a divorce? How dare you want a divorce? I'm going to prevent you from getting a divorce and you'll have to live with me...even if you hate me :lol:

*This doesn't just apply to Catalunya, but also the Kurds and their desire to be independent
 

4bars

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Come on...false information? CUP is in their perfect environment. The independentism discredit themselves saying that Serrat is a facha.He and all the traitors who don´t buy the idea.
Right now parents using their kids as a shield against the police. The rest are too busy doing videos, trying to get something juicy for twitter

CUP are the group with more educated people and young. CUP is antisystem but is not known to do anything agressive beside desobiedience. The only want that is well known for violence is the Spanish government.

Maybe because you are not from the independentism world but the rule, the BIG RULE is no violence, no violent reaction and the CUP are saying that over an over.

The kids thing is again, utter bullshit, maybe some minors around 14. But what it means human shields? are we at war? didn't know that! we just want to vote, the ones that attack are others

Juicy twiter? videos? what do you expect? this madnees!! I am sure that many people are happy that the spanish government had FORBID, HELICOPTERS AND ANY FLIGHT UNDER 3.000 FEET. Precisely to censor any image that what they are going to do
 

4bars

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I love stuff like this...particularly the arguments from those who want to hold on to regions that want to breakaway.

You want a divorce? How dare you want a divorce? I'm going to prevent you from getting a divorce and you'll have to live with me...even if you hate me :lol:

*This doesn't just apply to Catalunya, but also the Kurds and their desire to be independent
Precisely, no argument, just force. and its THE LAW. The law said it was forbidden for the women to vote, the law said that it was legal slavery, the law said it was forbidden to divorce, the law said that homosexuality was forbidden.

The law? fck the law, I want justice
 

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It's hard to see how anyone but the Spainish government are the bad guys in this.
The Spanish government is full of its share of prize cnuts, that's true enough. That said, I've never liked many of the comparisons with Scotland. An officially sanctioned referendum is obviously going to pass relatively peacefully, and it's misleading for Brits to look at a very different country and ask "why can't it be like when we did it?"
 

carvajal

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CUP are the group with more educated people and young. CUP is antisystem but is not known to do anything agressive beside desobiedience. The only want that is well known for violence is the Spanish government.

Maybe because you are not from the independentism world but the rule, the BIG RULE is no violence, no violent reaction and the CUP are saying that over an over.

The kids thing is again, utter bullshit, maybe some minors around 14. But what it means human shields? are we at war? didn't know that! we just want to vote, the ones that attack are others

Juicy twiter? videos? what do you expect? this madnees!! I am sure that many people are happy that the spanish government had FORBID, HELICOPTERS AND ANY FLIGHT UNDER 3.000 FEET. Precisely to censor any image that what they are going to do
I don´t know why you are so surprised. There is a coup(the mossos are the best example)and the country is reacting.
 

rcoobc

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The Spanish government is full of its share of prize cnuts, that's true enough. That said, I've never liked many of the comparisons with Scotland. An officially sanctioned referendum is obviously going to pass relatively peacefully, and it's misleading for Brits to look at a very different country and ask "why can't it be like when we did it?"
Why can't it be like we did it?
 

Fener1907

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*This doesn't just apply to Catalunya, but also the Kurds and their desire to be independent
When it comes to many Kurds in Turkey, it's more like, "we want a divorce and to keep all of the good things that we already have today from the Turkish state - like free utilities, education, etc. - to stay as they are."

They know how to dream, I'll give them that.
 

4bars

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I don´t know why you are so surprised. There is a coup(the mossos are the best example)and the country is reacting.
Shame on that parent, I am telling you that my sister and my friends don´t precisely for that reason. Obviously minimal. But I repeat, human shields? is a votation, and the military goes to avoid it.


Definition of coup d'état
plural coups d'état or coups d'etat play \ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä, ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌtä, -də-\
:a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially :the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
  • a military coup d'état of the dictator
Militar? small group is a few millions?