Complete bullshit.
Celtic would be top 6 in the Premier League
- Thread starter Peanut Butter
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
I was thinking around a Fulham level, no idea where they are in the championship.
I am assuming that Branda meant that they would be in Top 6 in the league -- and with him as the manager, other 'great' managers, maybe not.
I'm seeing some Celtic fans still pushing this narrative despite constantly getting schooled in Europe against teams most people haven't even heard of.
"We would have much better players in PL, our budget would be much higher."
Wales are twice as good as Scotland and even they struggle to keep a team in the PL. Celtic are extremely privileged that they have their own league, that's the only thing separating them from the likes of Cardiff and Swansea. Take away that privilege and we're at best looking at a midtable Championship team.
"We would have much better players in PL, our budget would be much higher."
Wales are twice as good as Scotland and even they struggle to keep a team in the PL. Celtic are extremely privileged that they have their own league, that's the only thing separating them from the likes of Cardiff and Swansea. Take away that privilege and we're at best looking at a midtable Championship team.
Quote them please!
A few on their kerrydale forum too but those you'll have to find yourself, I've read enough Celtic shite for one night.
I've often pondered this one. I reckon if it happened in the 90s or early 2000s they could've done some damage and would be amongst the bigger names today.
However if Rangers and Celtic were introduced to the Championship this season, they would struggle for years. They both have a couple of good players but barely have a full starting 11 that could compete between them. They do have good academies though.
I reckon long term they could have similar results as Newcastle, becoming a yo yo club with designs on mid table Prem. They fill their stadiums, have amazing supporters and shift a tonne of merchandise. The one benefit the Old Firm has is international support that lower level English teams cannot get so perhaps there could be success down the line. I would like to see it if it didn't cripple Scottish football
However if Rangers and Celtic were introduced to the Championship this season, they would struggle for years. They both have a couple of good players but barely have a full starting 11 that could compete between them. They do have good academies though.
I reckon long term they could have similar results as Newcastle, becoming a yo yo club with designs on mid table Prem. They fill their stadiums, have amazing supporters and shift a tonne of merchandise. The one benefit the Old Firm has is international support that lower level English teams cannot get so perhaps there could be success down the line. I would like to see it if it didn't cripple Scottish football
Both Rangers and Celtic would be mid table. No more no less. Tricky away fixture for other teams that's for sure
They are far bigger clubs than Swansea or Cardiff. They’d be more comparable to Newcastle or West Ham. Mid table PL clubs. Which in this day and age is almost as good as you can get without billionaire owners. Who if they were in the PL they could potentially get.
I do think they'd be better suited to survive in the prem than the Welsh sides. Packed out huge stadiums and a shit ton more worldwide interest to generate more cash.
Top four in five years is dreamland though. They'd need to spend hundreds of millions AND get those transfers right.
I don't understand the "with the money from the premier league" argument... I mean, yeah, if the Uruguayan teams were in the premier league, with the money from the premier league, and could attract players from the premier league... they would also be able to have premier league level...
I think they could reach the level of something like Spurs. Occasionally threatening the big boys with shrewd management.
Obviously they'd need years to get there. And probably a huge initial investment to get them up to speed in the PL.
Yes. any club with a large stadium/fanbase in the Premier League with Premier League prize money and sponsorship levels could do well.
I will cut them a little slack though. It's a little more understandable for them to think along those lines considering they're part of the UK and wonder what if there was UK league rather than separate ones. It's less of a leap than doing it with clubs from elsewhere, but what they say does apply to clubs from anywhere too.
The irony is that a good chunk of Celtic supporters don't like being associated with the UK/England the rest of the time so it's kind of funny and they can get lost.
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What makes it all so embarrassing is that they routinely get knocked out of Europe by teams from the Hungarian and Kazakh leagues.
Their home form would be impressive and probably keep them up I'd imagine. If they survived the first year, with the PL revenue etc they would soon start to break or at least challenge strongly for the top six. It's hard for them to build a good team in the SPL, as no-one wants to play in it once they reach a certain level. In the early 00's they would have been competing for the top six from the off, as they could attract good players but the quality has massively declined to the point where they sign average Championship players and rely on their foreign signings to increase the quality, once they have proved themselves in 1-2 season, they normally move on. Being in the PL would help stop that, and allow them to build a half decent team.
They are correct though. Currently Celtic and Rangers are a championship level but like they are saying if they had the PL money both clubs would be in the top 6 in England within 10 years ..Only United and Liverpool are clubs who can match Celtic and Rangers for support levels .
But bottom line they are not and will never be back at that level again . Scottish football is dead in the sense of having any standards of competition
Support levels matter feck all, look at Newcastle, Arsenal, West Ham etc... 20 years ago it would have made a big difference and they would likely be very strong teams today. If they joined next season they'd never join the big boys ever without some kind of crazy rich foreign owner.
3 years since Celtic were in the group stage. That year they lost 5-0 at home to PSG and 7-1 away. Lost to Anderlect at home 1-0. Since then, they've gone out to AEK Athen's in the qualifiers, Cluj, Ferencvaros. Copenhagen knocked them out of the Europa League too. Surely they should be beating all those 4 teams, they must have a similar or bigger budget than those sides?
I don't even think they would finish top 6 in the championship.
I think you’re overestimating the number of fans Celtic and Rangers have. City, Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal have a far larger global fan base. Celtic and Rangers would be Everton/West Ham/Newcastle sized clubs in the PL.
Celtic’s budget is far, far higher than all the those teams.
Celtic would be top 6 in Championship
Actually Celtic and Rangers are both in the top 20 globally in terms of shirt sales so you are completely wrong on that one. Only United, Arsenal, and Liverpool are ahead (by some distance) in the Premier League.
Imagine if they do join and their 1st season in the Prem. They will struggle to get 40points.
First in, first out.
First in, first out.
You are incredibly wrong pal. They are shit in comparison to those teams on field but have much bigger global support
There’s no way that’s true.
Celtic and Rangers global support is massively overstated. The two countries they are most popular in are Ireland and Scotland and combined there’s only around 10 million people there. The SPL doesn’t even have a TV deal in much of the world and in the countries where they do TV companies are paying next to nothing for the rights
Celtic and Rangers commercial revenue is similar to that of PSV and Feyenoord. If they had an enormous fan base like you think they’re doing a terrible job at monetising it.
Lower midtable.
They spout this shite every year yet never just bite the bullet and move into the English leagues.
Yeah they would start in about 3 leagues below the conference but in 10 years it would be better than the slow death that is the SPL.
Yeah they would start in about 3 leagues below the conference but in 10 years it would be better than the slow death that is the SPL.
Romanticism I guess. A certain great man who is our greatest ever manager being Scottish.
Yes, there's some measures that just make me doubt that they're as popular as some people make them out to be. Shirt sales and social media followers to name two.
Just dug out some shirt sale lists and they don't make the top 10 in the world in any of the lists I found whereas 4 PL clubs tend to. United and Liverpool are constants then depending on what year it is it's been 2 of City, Chelsea and Arsenal. Also dug out a top 20 from 11/12 to 15/16. 6 PL clubs, no Celtic.
Then in social media clubs like Aston Villa and West Ham have more followers.
Now I'm happy to believe that if they joined the Premier League they'd have more eyes on them and then pick up new fans but that's not the claim. The claim is that as a football club who have always played in Scotland they've managed to build up an enormous fan base, and that this huge, rabid worldwide fanbase they've acquired while playing in Scotland all this time aren't buying merch or following them on social media for some unknown reason. If only they switched to playing in England then they would. All these people fell in love with Celtic while playing in Scotland but won't do anything to show it while they're there. It's illogical and it's what we'd have to believe to think they have more fans than Arsenal, City, Spurs or Chelsea across the globe. The more believable conclusion is that they don't really have as many fans as those clubs.
I recognise they and Rangers are big clubs, they're certainly not tiny but on a worldwide scale they're not really up there and there's quite a number of PL clubs ahead of them. It's at least the 'big 6', maybe a few more.
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Agreed. Celtic’s new Adidas deal is worth £6m p/a. Everton’s deal with Hummel is £9m. If Celtic sold so many shirts they’d be making far more than what they currently do. Like I said Celtic and Rangers are Everton/Newcastle/West Ham sized clubs. They have a large regional support not a global one.
Scottish teams have been wank for almost a decade know.
2010 Maribor destroyed Hibernian 6:2 on aggregate in the EL qualifiers
2011 Maribor beats Rangers 3:2 on aggregate in the EL qualifiers
2014 Maribor beats Celtic 2:1 on aggregate in UCL qualifiers
2016 Maribor beats Aberdeen 2:1 on aggregate in EL qualifiers
I'm surprised they haven't been invited to join the PL yet given the interest Celtic and Rangers would generate overnight. I guess the counterargument is fairness and not jumping over the championship queue, but the PL is so obsessed with money that they would have found a way. Remember the 39th game proposal?
Yes. They would be relegation material in the PL.
Celtic and Rangers are the big fish is a small pond. We all know the data date of Scottish football is incredibly poor, both in terms of quality and competition. Celtic are going for 10 on a row, and have they won the domestic treble 2 years in a row?
They have a big Scottish fanbase, but no presence outside of this (Ireland aside). There have no appeal, they have no quality young players, and there is no interest.
Is it the Scottish League or the Scottish Cup that can’t even get a sponsor?
Also the notion that if they moved to the PL, which they won’t, then just because they have larger revenues, they would be too 6 is beyond belief.
Clearly they would have more money, but there are a dozen clubs with bigger fanbases and commercial revenue, that they would never be able to match. So just based on money, which is their argument, they would never break into the top 10. So it’s all down to careful player selection, building a team and a style, ala Leicester or Wolves, which they may be able to do in time, but that doesn’t support their agenda, as they just want the money.
Utd vs Celtic matches in the CL have been generally ok games, but only because the matches are sporadic. There is no desire or need from the PL to want either Celtic or Rangers. 20 years ago, there was an argument that they could have added value to the league, but that argument is long gone.
It’s also a complete arrogance to suggest that they can just join at the highest level. You would be denying clubs from the championship the right to play in the PL. So clearly they would need to start further down the pyramid, where they would likely toil for years.
Sunderland have a big fanbase, and have spend a hell of a lot of money over the last 10 years on players, and they find themselves in League 1, that’s the reality of what could happen to both Celtic and Rangers.
They have a big Scottish fanbase, but no presence outside of this (Ireland aside). There have no appeal, they have no quality young players, and there is no interest.
Is it the Scottish League or the Scottish Cup that can’t even get a sponsor?
Also the notion that if they moved to the PL, which they won’t, then just because they have larger revenues, they would be too 6 is beyond belief.
Clearly they would have more money, but there are a dozen clubs with bigger fanbases and commercial revenue, that they would never be able to match. So just based on money, which is their argument, they would never break into the top 10. So it’s all down to careful player selection, building a team and a style, ala Leicester or Wolves, which they may be able to do in time, but that doesn’t support their agenda, as they just want the money.
Utd vs Celtic matches in the CL have been generally ok games, but only because the matches are sporadic. There is no desire or need from the PL to want either Celtic or Rangers. 20 years ago, there was an argument that they could have added value to the league, but that argument is long gone.
It’s also a complete arrogance to suggest that they can just join at the highest level. You would be denying clubs from the championship the right to play in the PL. So clearly they would need to start further down the pyramid, where they would likely toil for years.
Sunderland have a big fanbase, and have spend a hell of a lot of money over the last 10 years on players, and they find themselves in League 1, that’s the reality of what could happen to both Celtic and Rangers.
They'd be a Newcastle level side. Huge stadiums, big following, but ultimately an unattractive destination for most world class footballers.
Mind you, under the right ownership Celtic would have some serious growth potential due to the connection with Ireland. Every other American I meet says he's descended from a leprechaun. And there's the romance with them being the first British team to be European champions. So there is some appeal to them that could explode with an owner with deep pockets and in the PL.
Mind you, under the right ownership Celtic would have some serious growth potential due to the connection with Ireland. Every other American I meet says he's descended from a leprechaun. And there's the romance with them being the first British team to be European champions. So there is some appeal to them that could explode with an owner with deep pockets and in the PL.
Very possible that it would be true. (title I mean)
It's the ownership lottery though isn't it. Do you get a billionaire owner like Roman or one like Mike Ashley..
Many English clubs have gained a wider international following by virtue of being part of a successful league that swallows up all the attention overseas. Before the globalisation of the Premier League and the explosion in TV revenues, both clubs were 'bigger' by most metrics than the majority of teams in the English top tier. Their core fanbase in the UK and Ireland outstrips almost everybody. If they were able to access the same markets, their reach would increase in the same way it has for the existing Premier League clubs. And clearly receiving an extra £100m a year in TV money would accelerate their growth. The problem is that they would be playing catch up. Revenues have been diverging for 20 years and it is 17 years since Scottish teams were outclassing English teams so there would be a lot of ground to make up. And breaking into the upper echelons of the league would require really astute management on and off the park.
It's not just the Premier League money though, you have to have money from other sources (Matchday revenue, Sponsorships, Shirt Sales etc.) to put you over on the other PL teams.
For example, if say, St Johnstone were put into the English league system, they'd have a much harder time getting promoted/staying in the PL then Celtic or Rangers.