I wasn't being uptight about it (just pointing it out), no need for the formalities
Celtic would be top 6 in the Premier League
- Thread starter Peanut Butter
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
I wasn't being uptight about it (just pointing it out), no need for the formalities
There are only two big airports in Scotland, and it’s a place to buy Scottish kit, pretty embarrassing if you have to close down a football shop on one of those airports. You are right the league is dead.
I wasn't being uptight about it (just pointing it out), no need for the formalities
Haha, I want trying to be funny, just to give you credit for pulling me up on it!
ok, I got the arguments about stadium and attendance... but some people are using the conclusion as an argument to reach the conclusion... "if they were in the premier league, they would be in the premier league" basically...
Also, a team with fan clubs in the major cities of USA and Canada is far from being worldwide... all decently big clubs have fan clubs in major cities because the amount of immigrants those cities have, the world is bigger than that.
Manchester United is worldwide... I don't have the slightest drop of english blood, yet I am supporting United from a country far from UK, I can get an official shirt without walking more than 3 blocks. I bet Celtic/Rangers supporters in USA are mostly descendants of Scotish. Would they be more worldwide if they were in the premier league? for sure... so would Uruguayan teams, which by the way often have fan clubs in major cities.
The way I see it, they should say "we have the stadium and attendance of a top 6 club of the PL". No shame in them that their league is crap or whatever.
Also, a team with fan clubs in the major cities of USA and Canada is far from being worldwide... all decently big clubs have fan clubs in major cities because the amount of immigrants those cities have, the world is bigger than that.
Manchester United is worldwide... I don't have the slightest drop of english blood, yet I am supporting United from a country far from UK, I can get an official shirt without walking more than 3 blocks. I bet Celtic/Rangers supporters in USA are mostly descendants of Scotish. Would they be more worldwide if they were in the premier league? for sure... so would Uruguayan teams, which by the way often have fan clubs in major cities.
The way I see it, they should say "we have the stadium and attendance of a top 6 club of the PL". No shame in them that their league is crap or whatever.
Didn’t we lose to Cluj under fergie?
When we were already through and played a weakened team. We had Wooten starting at centre back with Buttner and Powell also starting
agreed and it would be fun to watch
what does that prove though, that they can't compete with Pl in regards to money, that's hardly earth shattering news is it. Celtic try to operate on buy low sell high. Their recruitment policy in recent seasons has been very good. Players like Wanyama paid 900k then sold for 12.5m. Forster bought for 2m sold for 10m .VVD bought for 2.6m sold for 13m. Demebele, not even a fee but a compensation figure to fulham and sold for 20 m, and in answer to your question, Spurs were heavily linked with him at that time. Similar with Tierney, he was home grown and then sold for 25m.Right now they have Edouard who they bought for 9m, and will get 20-30 if they sell him. All these transfers have sell on clauses as well as we saw with VVD when he moved to liverpool, Dembele right now is sought after and if/when he goes they will get a fee as well. The argument is that if they have extra funds to go for the finished article, on top of their very good recruitment policy, they could be a competitive side. Nothing is a given in life, but if you play percentages there is a very good possibility.
As a avid watcher of Celtic not a chance now, maybe back in there hey day Rangers & Celtic should have pushed to start at the bottom tier of English football and make there way up.
they would have reaped the awards of TV money etc from the English game.
Celtic need to get back to basics cherry pick the best of Scottish Talent before they head over the border, and make a far better attempt at reaching the Group Stages of the Champions League
they would have reaped the awards of TV money etc from the English game.
Celtic need to get back to basics cherry pick the best of Scottish Talent before they head over the border, and make a far better attempt at reaching the Group Stages of the Champions League
being doing that for years, and leaving most on the bench.
Celtic are shite like the rest of Scottish football. They have the benefit of failing twice in Europe every year earning bucks along the way.
The game has been fecked for many years now since TV took over.
They’d be the equivalent of Swansea and Cardiff if they were in the English leagues. Occasional playoff push from the Championship but nothing more. Their fans seem to forget that they’re able to attract players solely because of guaranteed European football every season. They’d have far less resources and largely be irrelevant in England.
While it’s nonsense to suggest they would be top 6, they’d also probably have more money if they played in the English League, even just by being a yo-yo team. They’d be top 6 by average attendance so I’m not sure they’d be irrelevant.
Thrash in a bag
They average 50k and 58k respectively in terms of their attendance. Yes, their resources take a hit if they move down because they wouldn't have European football but it's not like they're plucky teams without huge stadiums and large following.
The highest average in the Championship this season is 40k and the lowest 11.5k. Even in the PL they would be in the top 8 of average attendances.
Their resources would be much better off unless I’m completely misreading the prize money table.
For some context, Soton received ~£100m for finishing 20th in the PL in 22/23 from what I can see. In 23/24 Celtic won £4.2m for winning the SPFL… that’s not including any UEFA money but you can see it wouldn’t make up the difference (£15m for CL qualification + then you get a small amount for a draw and £1.8m for a win the groups. Given Celtic won’t get out the group, they’ll do well to win one or two games.
Every year, PL teams get a guaranteed £80m odd, then the bigger clubs who get more games and have bigger stadiums get a bit extra, then you get more or less on where you finish. Even if you go down you get the parachute payments.
If Celtic or Rangers joined the PL they would have so much more money available and could likely be able to push for top half/top 6 I would think.
Yeah, i just meant they'd take a hit in terms of the European resources not coming in anymore but you're right that all other resources would go up because of TV money and other things. They'd also rake in more with ticket money and stuff and as said they'd be averaging attendances way more than most other clubs in the divisions.
If you gave Celtic PL TV money for 5 years, they'd be 100% pushing for top 6. They just missed out on the Premier League TV gravy train. No they can't attract players based off Europe when they haven't spent more than £10m on a player and give them more than £15k a week when Premier League players are on 10 times that.
Celtic would absolutely thrive in the EPL, with such lucrative dough coming their way. TV Money. Sponsorships. A famous atmosphere ripe for the choosing.
Considering the size of the club's support (and I can guarantee you it's deeper than fairweather), there would be billions pumped in. Doubtlessly.
The biggest impediment is the Green Brigade. Would the EPL want the attendant trouble?
I highly doubt it.
Considering the size of the club's support (and I can guarantee you it's deeper than fairweather), there would be billions pumped in. Doubtlessly.
The biggest impediment is the Green Brigade. Would the EPL want the attendant trouble?
I highly doubt it.
They'd be above Manchester United that's for sure
Comparing them to Welsh clubs is a lazy generalisation. Celtic are one of the biggest clubs in the world in terms of loyal support.
Not sure how they'd have 'far less support' if introduced to the Premier League, especially when you consider the money they'd earn from tv and sponsorship deals. A better quality of transfer target would emerge.
Putting them into the Football League would stymy them, sure, but it'd stymy Bayern Munich, too.
The reason the EPL would be hostile to them is The Green Brigade. Kicking off about poppies, chanting about the IRA and such, opposition fans shouting 'No Surrender' at them like numpties.
It's not worth the effort.
I'm not even sure PSG would make top 6
Ban them from Europe.
I dream a UK premier league. Celtic and Rangers in PL with their big fanbase and the PL money would be top teams. And the premier league even more competitive and of a higher level.
They would definitely be bought by some loaded feckers if they got in, they would end up a solid mid-table team at a minimum I think.
I definitely agree. Give them ~5 years in the Premier League and they'd become a team similar to current Aston Villa and Newcastle. Top 6 contender with the occasional top 4 finish too. Maybe they could even achieve something bigger in the long-term.
Not a chance in hell that's happening
You can have them both and their vile fan bases. The sooner Scotland is cleansed of them the better but it's never going to happen. Apart from anything the Premier League wouldn't want tens of thousands of bigots belting out about being up the their knees in f*nian blood and their support for child murdering terrorists every week. They're trying to eliminate racism not import it. It's always good to see them get humiliated in Europe though.
I think it would be more fair to say they would have a higher ceiling were they to be in the Prem. Simply having a huge and devoted fanbase doesn't guarantee success, and Im not sure they have many more advantages than that.
I grew up in Scotland but spent a lot of time in England due to family. Dad was Scottish and supported Celtic and mum was from Englnd and supported United, so I grew up with a love for both.
Personally, I would love to see Celtic in the Prem, even Rangers, as it would make for a great Premier league with clubs from all over the UK included. I'd even go one further and throw the rest of the clubs into the Championship and other divisions.
I feel the Scottish league can't really improve on what it is now and can't get any better, doesn't really help the clubs.
Personally, I would love to see Celtic in the Prem, even Rangers, as it would make for a great Premier league with clubs from all over the UK included. I'd even go one further and throw the rest of the clubs into the Championship and other divisions.
I feel the Scottish league can't really improve on what it is now and can't get any better, doesn't really help the clubs.
Was thinking about this old chestnut last night funnily enough. Celtic's result and me randomly discovering you can get to Glasgow cheaply on the train in recent days from Manchester, thinking I might go on a little trip. Well technically the Avanti Superfares are £12 from Preston, but it's only a fiver on top to get to there. A little midweek jaunt, or weekend away, perhaps even with some football on the cards. Was actually thinking more like Partick Thistle or Queens Park than either Celtic or Rangers as I'm currently managing a smaller Scottish football team in Football Manager.
Obviously they'd have more resources than they do now, but who knows where that would put them eventually. Current playing staff for the old firm teams would be favourites for relegation. They'd be like newly promted teams buying a million players each in the quest to stay up like when Forest bought about 20 players after promotion 3 years back or so. The financial gap between Scottish and English football growing wider and wider, plus with other leagues too.
I remember as a kid Rangers being called one of the biggest teams in Britain around the time they had English internationals Terry Butcher, Gary Stevens and Chris Woods in their ranks. No way they or Celtic could hope for something similar nowadays.
In lots of ways it's a silly talking point. Obviously it's brought up because they're in the UK, but we could also transport a huge number of teams from different leagues into the PL too and they'd suddenly have more money as well. Not going to happen either.
We can say they'd have to deal with FFP if suddenly transported in, they'd have to completely change their squads, and while they do have sizeable worldwide followings compared to some other teams they'd be coming from a place where they'd have missed out on gaining popularity in a lot of markets that Premier League teams have. Suppose Celtic's current Japanese contingent might help a bit if they kept them, but in general they'd be way behind in Asia for example.
The 2 clubs could eventually get it right, but they could also be like Everton, Leeds or Sunderland for a while, or the bad versions of Villa, Newcastle or West Ham that got relegated. A big stadium and large fanbase doesn't guranteed anything in the Premier League.
Obviously they'd have more resources than they do now, but who knows where that would put them eventually. Current playing staff for the old firm teams would be favourites for relegation. They'd be like newly promted teams buying a million players each in the quest to stay up like when Forest bought about 20 players after promotion 3 years back or so. The financial gap between Scottish and English football growing wider and wider, plus with other leagues too.
I remember as a kid Rangers being called one of the biggest teams in Britain around the time they had English internationals Terry Butcher, Gary Stevens and Chris Woods in their ranks. No way they or Celtic could hope for something similar nowadays.
In lots of ways it's a silly talking point. Obviously it's brought up because they're in the UK, but we could also transport a huge number of teams from different leagues into the PL too and they'd suddenly have more money as well. Not going to happen either.
We can say they'd have to deal with FFP if suddenly transported in, they'd have to completely change their squads, and while they do have sizeable worldwide followings compared to some other teams they'd be coming from a place where they'd have missed out on gaining popularity in a lot of markets that Premier League teams have. Suppose Celtic's current Japanese contingent might help a bit if they kept them, but in general they'd be way behind in Asia for example.
The 2 clubs could eventually get it right, but they could also be like Everton, Leeds or Sunderland for a while, or the bad versions of Villa, Newcastle or West Ham that got relegated. A big stadium and large fanbase doesn't guranteed anything in the Premier League.
As a club they could be a top 6 English team. As they're rotting in the Scottish League they would make for a mediocre Championship side.
No mediocre Championship side would win a Champions League game 5-1, draw with Atletico Madrid, or beat Feyenoord as they have done in the past year.
It'd all be dependent on how well run they were and how they invested their money.
They'd have the potential to be top 6 or better. They'd also have the potential to get themselves relegated.
So it's a pointless discussion really.
They'd have the potential to be top 6 or better. They'd also have the potential to get themselves relegated.
So it's a pointless discussion really.
Could already imagine the Sky OTT promo for the Old Firm games to all finish 1-1 and Gary Neville to gaslight us into believing we saw a tactical blinder
A team from Holland could only draw with Manchester United last week so they're not really that good.
On a serious note a championship team could absolutely do all those things. Sheriff and other european minnows have caused many upsets in the CL over the years.
We’ve don’t even have a billion invested in us from owners and you think someone would buy fecking Celtic and invest billions in them?
Celtic and Rangers have huge support. If they were playing in the Premier League, they would be able to raise their ticket prices and still fill Celtic Park and Ibrox. Playing big Premier League sides twice a year would be a goldmine and bring in huge TV revenues.
I don't think Celtic and Rangers are really comparable to Swansea and Cardiff; they are much bigger and more prestigious clubs in every sense. I could see Celtic becoming really well followed in the US, for example, and building a bit of a global following is not out of the question for either club. There's something to market there.
I don't think Celtic and Rangers are really comparable to Swansea and Cardiff; they are much bigger and more prestigious clubs in every sense. I could see Celtic becoming really well followed in the US, for example, and building a bit of a global following is not out of the question for either club. There's something to market there.
Celtic and Rangers in the PL would be a serious proposition given the money they would have access to. Might take a few years but certainly comparable in stature to Villa and Newcastle if not even bigger clubs.
Given the size of the fanbase of both clubs, I'd imagine they could end up being comparable to Villa/Newcastle/Spurs. They'd be top half of the PL, but they'd never really look like they could seriously challenge for the league, that's if they were just dropped into the PL.
If they were to have to start in L2 and work their way up, it could take them years to get enough together to get above the Championship, stay up and eventually aim for a top half challenge.
If they were to have to start in L2 and work their way up, it could take them years to get enough together to get above the Championship, stay up and eventually aim for a top half challenge.