A big, strong fecker that can head the ball. In essence, a Chris Smalling that looks comfortable on the left and can pass the ball a bit better. Smalling being great back up.
Centre Back... Who do we go for?
- Thread starter Macern
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Wow, we need three now ? even I would'nt go that far !
OK back to two now which I agree with.
De Ligt could certainly be the 'other', his potential is enormous.
Same as above, de Ligt could well be a great signing but if we go for Koulibaly it could be too expensive for both, I still like the look of Milenkovic who would cost a lot less.
A squad with Koulibaly, Milenkovic/ de Ligt, Linderlöf, Bailly and Tuanzebe would be very strong.
Koulibaly the experienced leader. Zagadou the aerial left-footed monster to grow with De Ligt on the right who is the same age. Zagadou can deputise as back-up LB as well for Shaw when Young is gone until he becomes first-choice.
Just get De Ligt. Absolute quality player and quite experienced for his age. Already 90 appearances for Ajax and 13 appearances for the Dutch national team. When you think about it, our most successful players were all wonderkids showing at a young age. De Gea, Rashford, Martial, and Pogba.
De Ligt, Lindelof, Bailly, Smalling, and Tuanzebe is a good core of CBs.
De Ligt, Lindelof, Bailly, Smalling, and Tuanzebe is a good core of CBs.
Ndidi is an incrediblly hard working player but he's not good enough in possession to play for us. Closer to Mctominay or Schneiderlin (before he went off the boil) than even a Herrera in terms of play on the ball, never mind a Matic.
He'd help us in big games but against teams that sit deep or press high I don't think he's good enough. Same for Gueye at Everton. Ndidi is young enough to improve and become a quality 6 who dominates via athleticism (like Casemiro) or improve enough going forward to turn his pace and desire into attacking productivity (Kante this year I guess the model?) but I wouldn't spend 40M to bet on it. I think he's good where he is for now. Conversely, I think Doucoure isn't quite the ball winner but links play better, covers a ton of ground vertically and can finish well enough that he'd be a decent Pogba backup with others taking on the creativity but him a real threat on late runs into the box.
Richarlison would have been a nice signing, very good movement and can play as an LW or 9, another who would have made sense over Sanchez. Martial, Rashford and Richarlison for the LW and 9 spots for the next 5 years, each getting 35-40 starts a year and healthy bench time would have been good. I could see him going to Chelsea when Hazard finally goes, seems like a good fit for Sarri ball in that he's a real threat in behind and on crosses and that system needs that sort of penetrative front 3.
Zaha is intriguing. We should really have made that a buyback. Tough to handle 1 on 1, could start on the right for us while backing up Martial at LW and has a better eye for goal now. Movement in behind isn't great though, and he's nothing special defensively. Probably get a better player for the same price if we bought outside England.
Names I like, in addition to Doucoure:
Wan-Bissaka is impressive. Looks like a really solid all-around fullback. Signing a right back makes sense to me, with Dalot apparently able to cover both sides and Shaw at LB.
Nathan Ake, as he's 23, we're perpetually in need of a left-sided center half and he moves well and doesn't hoof it. If we got Alderweild for his release clause and Ake and sold everyone but Lindelof and Tuanzebe I'd be happy. If Ake would cost 30 and we could sell Jones for 20 (and I think a 26 year old CB with 27 caps would fetch that from a mid-table side like West Ham or Palace), I think that's worth it.
Both Leicester fullbacks, Pereira and Chillwell, and Digne seem like high floor, low ceiling type buys. Don't think any will be quite world class but they're all good going forward. If we finally give up the Shaw dream and buy a RB with the idea that Dalot will get games on both sides and we need an LB to play 40 times next year, I'd probably go with Chillwell as he's 22 and has been unlucky to not get more assists this year.
Have to see more of them, but Gibbs-White and Lookman both look impressive. If Gibbs-White does have the quickness to play as a 10 and the overall game to be a more attacking option in a 4-3-3 than Herrera/Fred while also giving us someone who can fill in for Pogba, that's intriguing.
Would be happy if we Ndidi could develop into a Casemiro type player. One concern I have about him is that for his position he has quite low passing statistics (76.5%) and I have read that one thing that lets him down is his distribution, which is something I am hoping he can work on as he has age on his side. I really hope Ndidi doesn't turn into another Schneiderlin, who I had high hopes for initially.
My mate who supports City suggested we should sign Wan-Bissaka, he knows quite a bit about football, sometimes he tells me about decent players then other times is on a windup and completely taking the p!ss, but providing Dalot shows he can competently cover both sides on a regular basis I would be up for taking Wan-Bissaka, I shall be keeping a closer eye on him until the end of the season.
Don't know much about other players you have mentioned but thanks for the insight. Good post mate.
Thanks. I do think Casemiro is a bit better at linking play in tight spaces, though he also better teammates. I feel like Ndidi is a little more cautious on the ball, so a low passing completion percentage is a worry.
I have the same idea. But because Alderweireld would "only" cost 25 million pounds, we should get him as well as De Ligt, and sell all three of Rojo, Jones and Smalling (all injury prone and just not good enough tbh). That way in the unlikely case that De Ligt isn't ready we have Alderweireld as insurance. We would then have Lindelof, Bailly, Tuanzebe, De Ligt, and Alderweireld as our CBs, a group good enough to compete for any title.
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Very similar to my idea. But I would buy Koulibaly instead of Alderweireld if we get him for around 80mio £. And maybe sell one of Bailly or Lindelöf instead of Smalling or Jones if we get a good offer.
Sell Bailly and Rojo, get De Ligt and promote Tuanzebe. That should do it. At least keep one of Jones/Smalling for the quota for English players.
If we stick to within the league, I'd be quite interested in Ake. I think he stands out in a very poor Bournemouth defence, aerially and on the ball. Looks like he's got stronger in the past few season as well and I think he plays on the left hand side?
You're seriously suggesting selling Lindelof ahead of Jones/Smalling when he's just starting to come good for us? He's been one of our best players since December.
I think the signings we make now, have to be the type of players that are at the very best in their position, we don't need squad players. That's why at CB I'd like to see us by Koulibaly, or someone of a similar calibre. We need someone who'll have the impact on our defence that Pogba has/is expected to have on our midfield.
Sanchez was supposed to be that guy for our attack and unfortunately hasn't been.
Sanchez was supposed to be that guy for our attack and unfortunately hasn't been.
Smalling isn't particularly injury-prone, and he's our best defender at actually defending. Bailly really hasn't shown anything in the last two years to deserve to be kept ahead of him.
The problem you have there is that we have a bunch of very young players who are completely inconsistent (which is normal for younger players). Buying another youngster will not improve us, but merely add another body to our roster.
Do you remember what we did to an Ajax side, made up from a bunch of kids, in the EL final? It really was like taking candy from a bunch of kids. They stood no chance.
We could've played for another 180 minutes and they still would not have a scored a goal or been able to stop us scoring more goals.
With all this in mind, I believe we should go for an experienced CB, who can lead our young CBs. Strictly speaking, Smalling should be doing that, but he is not a leader. And Phil Jones can't stop making errors for long enough, to cover for any young defenders who may be coming through the ranks (who will make mistakes during a match).
Correct.
Baily did have a good first 3 months. He then went to AFCON, returned injured and since then he didn't really show much. That was 2 years back.
Smalling has been our most consistent defender over the last few years. Not great, but decent.
Phil Jones is the guy who I want out. Having him on our roster, encourages the manager to pick him.
Skriniar please
Get Koulibaly now, use Bailly as a bait. I still think Bailly can come good for us, but if we can somehow convince Napoli in these 10 days to take Bailly plus cash for Koulibaly that will be amazing.
In summers we need to go all out for De Ligt. Koulibaly, De Ligt, Lindelof, Smalling, Jones and Tuanzebe are a solid group of defenders to have. We can use Lindelof at right back as well in those crunch European games where solid defending is required.
In summers we need to go all out for De Ligt. Koulibaly, De Ligt, Lindelof, Smalling, Jones and Tuanzebe are a solid group of defenders to have. We can use Lindelof at right back as well in those crunch European games where solid defending is required.
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Bit of a curve ball this one, but I have been watching Ethan Ampadu play since he was around 15 y.o and he has always struck me as being a typical Manchester United type of player. I'm at a loss why he chose Chelsea, apparently he was a fan, but I'm not sure if it was the wisest of choices. I also heard SAF was impressed with him when he saw him play as a 13 y.o, but he was on his way out of the club at the time and there was no follow up.
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I am quite sure Alderweireld will be our first choice for CB next summer. He is less expensive and he open us space for another one. The other should come this month but i dont see this happen in next days.
If someone offers us 60mio or something like that I would do it to finance Koulibaly. It has nothing to do with his class. It would be a financial decision. And maybe we get no offer for our other defenders.
From the sport perspective for sure I would carry on with Lindelöf.
The financial perspective? Are you a wum? We'd be left with the same shite situation but potentially a bit less shite than it is now IF Koulibaly can adjust to the PL. We'd still have 1 good CB and several shite CB's. We need Koulibaly to partner Lindelof, not replace him.
I know what you mean, but if you see Koulibaly playing he is one of the best CBs at the moment. And Lindelöf is just a good CB. I think you can't compare that.
I would also sell Sanchez if he would finance Messi and just one of these are Premiere League proofed.
Are we actually chasing any CB's ? Apart from gossip and speculation I have'nt seen or heard anything to suggest we are in the market for one, I've gone on record to say that although the squad needs an overhaul, one quality CB signing this window could be the difference between a top 4 spot.
Koulibaly is the one for me and IF the deal needed funding, there are a number of players we could offload now.
Koulibaly is the one for me and IF the deal needed funding, there are a number of players we could offload now.
I'm limited in my number of posts per day, so I might as well make them count --
Comparing Ndidi's passing to McTominay is a serious insult to Ndidi. I agree that he might not be as good as Herrera on the ball, but I think he is better than Herrera defensively. Basically, I am a big fan of Ndidi and would love for us to sign him. He could give some rest to Matic if we are at home against a "lesser" team, or he could compliment Herrera and Matic in the middle if we are on the road or against tougher opposition. A three-man midfield of Matic - Herrerra - Ndidi, with Pogba in a free-role could be salty. I think he would make us much harder to beat.
Richarlison would have been a great signing in the summer, but we might as well forget it now. Everton paid 50M and would be well within their rights to demand 100M for him now. He is good, but I don't think he is 100M good.
Zaha I think should be avoided, even if he wanted to come back. He looks decent as a big fish in a small pond and would fail if he came back. But also, maybe he could fill a need on our right wing and free up some space for our other attackers. It could go either way. I just don't really like him and think he looks to draw fouls too often. He should do what he did against Pool more often -- beat the defender and pick a pass/cross. Too often he beats the defender, then cuts back, then has to beat him again as well as the other defenders who have now been drawn over.
I think Doucoure is decent, but doesn't offer much defensively. It would be like a poor man's Pogba, and we wouldn't be able to play them both at the same time. I don't think he is needed.
Wan-Bissaka is great and I would sign him tomorrow if I could.
Ake is occasionally impressive, but I don't think he is good enough in the air. I can't get our recent game away to Bournemouth out of my head. Its down to extra time and he mistimes a simple header, making a horrible mistake, and Rashford scores the winner. If that was Jones / Smalling / Lindelof.... our fans would not have been kind.
Chilwell, he was impressive earlier in the game at Old Trafford. I am actually a fan of Shaw and don't get all the hate on here so I don't think LB is a priority, but I am onboard with more competition for spots. Chilwell would be expensive, but it's not my money.
Digne, I am not impressed really. But Everton fans are being won over so I could be wrong.
Gibbs-White I think could be very good. He plays more of an #8 though, from what I have seen. He is very young but already looks very comfortable in possession. I think he would be a SAF-type signing.
Finally, Lookman -- I actually have liked what I saw in the few minutes he's gotten. My only concern is that he hasn't been able to fight into a starting role at Everton, so there must be something I don't see. But he looks confident at taking people on and effective at doing so when I've seen him.
Good post. The Prem has some really solid talent but seems lacking in top talent, and it's expensive. A lot of the best under 25 talent seems to already be at big clubs, like Alexander-Arnold, Rashford, Foden and Sancho. And we need to be buying players at the Pogba and De Gea level, or at least not below the Herrera/Matic level, by which I mean good enough a starting player on a title team that you aren't really looking to replace with an upgrade.
I guess Sessegnon deserves a mention for being 18 and already looking decent at basically every wide position and looking like a goalscoring threat most of the time which is pretty rare for a teenager. I'd have more confidence for him to finish a normal chance than I would a lot of mid-table wingers and at 18 that's intriguing composure, even if I have no idea if he's a left-back, left winger or right winger (basically the question Bale had to figure out).
Ndidi is miles short of the creativity you see from top midfields now. It would absolutely frustrate some good teams, but be pretty unwatchable going forward against smart managers and good enough midfields, seems like we can aim higher in big games. And I haven't seen the clever passing and ball retention of Matic (whose size and composure are really high level and have been since he came back to Chelsea) in N'Didi at all.
Great energy and he's young, but https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/118179-ndidi/?page=4 a lot alarming talk about poor ball control here, and I thought both Mikel and Etebo looked better in possession (passing, getting open, not having to be too conservative and safe) for Nigeria this summer. Ndidi is one of the best at running and hassling in Europe so he's got a mid-table base to start from, but I wouldn't spend 25M on him for United.
Agree on Richarlison. He's not the dribbler or passer to be a 100M player, but for what Everton paid I think it made sense. It's so hard to find wide players who can score and Richarlison seems to have the desire, clever movement (especially on crosses), size and athleticism to score goals. Missed a ton of chances last year but he doesn't look bad striking a ball like a teenage Sterling did for example. I
Zaha would be a toss up for sure. Would he tear apart leftbacks for us without the double teams and extra attention he faces at Palace, or would he struggle with everything a big club playing possession football demands and just be a decent dribbler off the bench?
Wan-Bissaka it's only a short time so far but he looks like he has what you need to consistently shut down a wing. Seems like a good fit with Dalot as the better attacking option on the right and also getting games on the left. If we keep playin a RW who likes to come central and help the midfield and playmake in the space created by Martial and Pogba being fairly left-sided for their positions in a 4-3-3, someone who can cover a ton of space seems like a must. I do think there's a chance Wan-Bissaka might not be consistently special going forward, but yeah, promising player.
I think that's a fair critique of Ake. He's about to turn 24 though and you'd expect him to become a stronger, more solid CB in his mid to late 20s. And I do think a more commanding player next to Lindelof makes sense as a partnership. But if we sign Alderweild to be that guy then having a backup left-footed CB like Ake would work, Barcelona signing Lenglet to backup Umtiti, in that vein.
Chillwell I think is definitely good enough going forward, the question is if he would be defensively. Presumably he'll improve on that end at his age. Seems like the next Baines/Trippier type. We should be aiming for the next Evra though, particularly if we're moving from Lukaku to Rashford as a 9, a decent but not great defensively or special as a passing fullback with great crossing seems unlikely to be worth the huge fee he'd require. Digne is similar and at 25, that's another B+ signing.
Gibbs-White too early to say but his mobility and creativity are very promising, whatever exact position he ends up in.
Is it just me or are half these players being discussed not even centre backs?
More of this are average players.
We need game changer at rw, and tempo dictator in midfield. My choices are Dybala and Pjanic.
In defence Koulibaly and Skriniar. Koulibaly is fighter like Vidic, Skriniar reminds me of Ferdinand. Pair of those two will work perfect. And when we have defence with DDG, Koulibaly and Skriniar we even can aford not to buy at full backs positions.
I know they will cost a lot of money and this is not FM, but it is just how i want United to look.
Thanks, you as well.
This.
Haha fair point
My CB opinions are pretty limited.
Basically, I don't want us to sign Maguire, and I do want us, very badly, to sign Alderweireld.
Pay the relatively small fee for Alderweireld and then spend heavily in other areas (DM and RW).
But Alderweireld is a temporary fix. He's got what, two more years at top level in him? Wouldn't your rather we pay twice as much for someone like De Ligt?
If De Jong goes for 70m+ de Ligt surely will cost 100m+? Being the better player and all...
I'm curious what Ajax is going to do with all that money. With this current inflow of cash, they are pretty stacked and there are others too who will probably leave soon (Neres, Onona, Ziyech, Tagliafico...) for a decent amount of money. They will be a rich club, unable to attract top players because of the league they play in. They'll probably continue to focus on bringing in young talented players but really competing in Europe will be difficult.
Still convinced we need to merge smaller leagues together to compete with the bigger competitions.
I don't think so. Right now there's a lot more hype around Frenkie de Jong. Also, midfielders tend to cost more than defenders. Say Frenkie goes for €80-90 million. I'd say De Ligt would cost €60-70 million. Which is a lot of money for a young CB who hasn't proved himself in any of the top leagues yet.
Really? I always thought the opposite.
De Ligt would be an excellent signing but we're probably not a better option for him than City, Barca and PSG are. Definitely a player we should be pushing to get though.
Go out make a statement buy the best young cb in the world in De Ligt
Or miss out like we did in with Varane , Laporte etc
Or miss out like we did in with Varane , Laporte etc
I would of course do that, I just don't think its a viable option for us right now.
We could match the other clubs money-wise, but if Barca / Madrid / Bayern are also in the mix I don't think we have a chance.
Once you get past Koulibaly and de Ligt it's fishing in shallow waters, minor upgrades over what we have IMO, and Alderweireld will be another Schweinsteiger buy.
Dybala is a forward. Speaking of him and Pjanic, their current Manager is my preferred choice to be the next permanent Manchester United boss.
He's the closest thing you'll find to Sir Alex Ferguson today. Thoughts?