I agree. I think Anderson would be our Declan Rice signing. In a couple of seasons would make the midfield his own and be one of the team’s captains whether he has the armband or not. There’s other good midfielders, but I’d pretty much pay whatever it took to get him, then work out what’s left in the budget for anyone else. Looks like he has the character as well as the ability.
Centre Midfielder Transfer Links
- Thread starter luke511
- Start date
Forgot about Tonali
Is Alex Scott meant to be? Alex Ferguson, he’s a Scot
Maybe the mind is playing tricks on me. Always liked Scott for some reason I did not quite get.
It’s written in the stars
I suggested Valentin Barco in another post when he played as a LB, but now he is playing as a midfielder and doing pretty good:
https://www.sofascore.com/es/football/player/valentin-barco/1127057
https://www.sofascore.com/es/football/player/valentin-barco/1127057
If we can dream, can we get Anderson, Zaire-Emery and Chema Andres. We'd be set for a while with that trio
Wasn't aware Brighton had sold him. Have a feeling that's one they'll regret
He's part of BlueCo, he'll be at Chelsea soon enough.
Fair play. Was a bit confused. But that makes sense.
Still say Anderson is the one, though.
I suspect INEOS would want premier league proven players. So there’s more chance of one or two of Anderson/Wharton/Baleba and maybe someone like Alex Scott
Anderson is a must. Scott would also be very interesting, how much would he cost?
Great post!! Exactly the knowledge I've been looking for, thanks!I had an initial look for potentially good DM replacements in the following link, but TLDR there weren't many:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/centre-midfielder-transfer-links.488776/post-33997872
I thought I'd have another go at doing a similar thing, but tweaking slightly to focus a bit more on stylistically similar players to Casemiro. I used his current season's data as a reference as it's still excellent and well beyond most other midfielders out there.
Mainly, I filtered out players based on a number of Casemiro's key stand-out, differentiating attributes; primarily: high defensive work-rate, strong progressive passing, and not being bad in the air. If restricted to more additional data-points eg only exceptional in the air, plus scoring goals, there'd be basically no one left.
I decided to add Sofascore's season player ratings for wider context, because some of the extra bits-and-pieces Casemiro does relative to other stylistically similar central midfielders (eg goals, headers etc.) will still get captured there to some degree without narrowing the field too arbitrarily. Looking at Sofascore's ratings relative to other data sources and my own observations, they seem fairly solid for assessing player performance.
Results were pretty similar overall to my previous attempt, but with a few names dropping out and a few finding their way in.
I removed basically all the older (eg >28) players from the non-PL Big 5 Leagues as they are unlikely to be signed.
I also looked at younger prospects from most of the still respected smaller leagues who could maybe make the step-up in future.
Big 5 Leagues (age, club, Sofascore Season rating):
Premier League - Elliott Anderson (23, Nottingham Forest, 7.1); Nico Gonzalez (24, Man City, 6.97); Ethan Ampadu (25, Leeds, 7.03); Declan Rice (27, Arsenal, 7.51); Vitaly Janelt (27, Brentford, 6.94); Ibrahim Sangare (28, Nottingham Forest, 7.06); Bruno Fernandes (31, Manchester United, 7.65); Casemiro (33, Manchester United, 7.15); Granit Xhaka (33, Sunderland, 7.34)
La Liga - Antonio Blanco (25, Alaves, 6.91); Unai Vencedor (25, Levante/Bilbao, 6.67); Pape Gueye (27, Villareal, 6.97); Pepelu (27, Valencia, 7.06); Kervin Arriaga (28, Levante, 6.86); Frenkie De Jong (28, Barcelona, 7.24)
Serie A - Ederson (26, Atalanta, 6.94); Manuel Locatelli (28, Juventus, 7.53)
Bundesliga - Chema Andres (20, Stuttgart/Real Madrid, 6.95); Nicolas Seiwald (24, RB Leipzig, 6.99); Tom Krauß (24, Kölln/Mainz, 6.94)
Ligue 1 - Mamadou Sangare (23, Lens, 7.06); Tanner Tessmann (24, Lyon, 6.91); Jordan Teze (26, Monaco, 6.88)
I've also plotted two of the most important attributes below which I'd used as a filter. Together with relativised Sofascore ratings as an overall player quality barometer:
A few notes:
- Casemiro is a defensive freak.
- Replacing both Bruno and Casemiro will be a nightmare.
- Can Real Madrid be persuaded to not take back Chema Andres for what Utd were willing to sign Baleba for?
- Locatelli is doing crazy things (albeit in Serie A...). Shame he's 28 and Juve captain...
- It's obvious why Anderson might be a priority target for United as the youngest PL player on here, as well as being on the Pareto Line (if you exclude the freaks); even though he doesn't have the exact same profile as Casemiro.
- Man City already have one of the top young DMs in the PL in Nico Gonzalez - them also taking Anderson would seem greedy...
Younger Prospects from Smaller (non-Big 5) Leagues (age, club, Sofascore Season rating):
Vanja Dragojevic (20, Partizan Belgrade 7.02); Mathias Siltanen (18, Djugardens, 7.15); Soumaila Diabate (21, RB Salzburg, 6.79); Aleksandr Stankovic (20, Club Bruges/Inter Milan, 7.32); Kamiel Van De Perre (21, Union St Gilloise, 6.91); Justin Janssen (19, Nordsjaelland, 6.91); Cauan Barros (21, Vasco De Gama, 7.07); Shea Charles (22, Southampton, 6.93); Stije Resink (22, Groningen, 7.23); Youri Regeer (22, Ajax, 7.09)
A few notes:
- Mathias Siltanen (who I've mentioned here before) seems a rare and exciting Casemiro-esque profile for an 18 year-old, and should follow the Bergvall route from Djugardens to the PL (hopefully to United, but Bournemouth and City have scouted him in the past).
- Stankovic is apparently being scouted by Man Utd and Spurs interestingly enough. I watched him vs St Gilloise and he seems an exciting player who strikes the ball very well indeed, albeit seems more a Rice-type box-to-box, maybe even a 10, than a 6/DM. Similar to Chema, can he tempted away from his kinda parent club?
- Dragojevic has been strongly linked to Borussia Dortmund recently.
Sounds like Tonali could be available in the summer, his agent is already sounding as if Tonali wants CL football next season.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/WFrLCkngJo
Would be a good signing for whoever gets him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/WFrLCkngJo
Would be a good signing for whoever gets him.
Ben Jacobs has suggested that Bruno Guimarães has a 'verbal pact' with Newcastle to leave for a Champions League club at a price of around £80 million. He added that City are the most likely of all PL clubs to make a move (according to his info).
For me, he's the best replacement for Casemiro. Defensively solid, technically sound, and a goal threat. All of that for around £80 million would be well worth it IMO.
For me, he's the best replacement for Casemiro. Defensively solid, technically sound, and a goal threat. All of that for around £80 million would be well worth it IMO.
Ben Jacobs knows nothing no point in wasting time on his info .
Out of all the midfielders we have been linked with I think Anderson would easily be the best signing we could make.
However, I fear we’re doomed to make a struggling Baleba our big money signing and have him join the ranks of Mount and Sancho as signings we made for huge money with next to no return.
The last time we had to overhaul our midfield we ended up with Schneiderlin and Shweinsteiger.
However, I fear we’re doomed to make a struggling Baleba our big money signing and have him join the ranks of Mount and Sancho as signings we made for huge money with next to no return.
The last time we had to overhaul our midfield we ended up with Schneiderlin and Shweinsteiger.
Unless it’s written in ink, pacts mean nothing in football sadly.
I really like Guimaraes and would love him here, but his age is concerning for such a high fee. He has everything though PL experience, passion, work rate, creativity, scores goals - you’re right he’d be the best like-for-like we could find for Casemiro.
Would Anderson + Guimaraes be too much to ask for?
It would be a safer use of £80m than on Wharton or Baleba and if we’re genuinely serious about a title challenge in 2028, that’s a serious midfield (plus Mainoo) we could do it with.
Agreed. Should go all in for him
Anyone of Anderson, Bruno G., Tonali would work.
I'd sign Bruno G and Baleba. £160m total and the midfield sorted for a few years. Keep Mainoo and Ugarte to complete the 4 midfield spots for now. If in future you can sell and replace Ugarte then so be it.
Ugarte doesn't strike me as a bad character and probably isn't on the biggest wage so he could be backup to Baleba. Bruno G and Mainoo to compete and rotate for CM behind Bruno Fernandes.
He's about to turn 29. It's a hard no for me.
We should be looking 25 and under. Giving a player a 4-5 year contract, and then you ideally want potential to extend or sell after that.
I would happily take Bruno 2, but we cant pay 80 mill for a lad turning 29.
Not sure if he will be best replacement for Casemiro IMO. He’s been playing as no 8 in midfield 3. It seems that’s his best position and he’s been getting good amount of end product due to playing in more advanced role this season.
He also turns 29 in November. Would not pay close to £80m at this point.
Everyone saying Bruno G is too old - you do realise he'll only be turning 29 in November? Case is turning 34 in two weeks... There's your 5 year contract period right there.
Following on from my analysis above, and having watched quite a lot of matches recently, I think the only player who could possibly be obtainable and can near enough replace Casemiro without United missing much of a beat is Manuel Locatelli. The stats don't lie, he's great at covering the pitch, is very disciplined defensively, is a terrier in the tackle, good in the air, and capable of making the same quick types of forward passes and Anderson.
He has just turned 28, but I still think he'd have enough in the tank for it to be worthwhile. People aren't complaining with hindsight now about signing Casemiro, even though he was already 30 when he joined Locatelli has 2 years left on his Juventus contract so might not be impossible to lure if you offered Juve enough money and him a sizeable wage boost on a 4+1 year deal. He is not Juve's highest earner. Juve are also supposedly interested in Tonali - let them have him and take Locatelli off them in turn.
Anderson would be my second choice. My main concern is that although he is good defensively, I still don't think he's quite strong enough in that area that there wouldn't be some initial problems when partnered with Mainoo. He'll likely still improve with time, but at least for a couple of seasons I think the pair of them would get beaten in the middle of the park a bit too often, plus may continue have issues with fully covering the space.
If you have the money and are capable, then adding both Locatelli and Anderson would be great, but I'd doubt either would want to join to sit on the bench behind Mainoo.
There are no Cunha or Mbeumo equivalents with Casemiro's profile in the 25-26 year age bracket who can come in and you'd expect to similarly hit the ground running at a very high level. Some people here mentioning Tonali and Guimaraes, but neither of them offer enough defensively to partner Mainoo. The likes of Baleba or Wharton would be too weak and too much of a downgrade initially.
If you are worried about spending a large amount on a 28 year-old, then bring in a couple of cheaper understudies for the future alongside him, so there's less problem with succession planning.
He has just turned 28, but I still think he'd have enough in the tank for it to be worthwhile. People aren't complaining with hindsight now about signing Casemiro, even though he was already 30 when he joined Locatelli has 2 years left on his Juventus contract so might not be impossible to lure if you offered Juve enough money and him a sizeable wage boost on a 4+1 year deal. He is not Juve's highest earner. Juve are also supposedly interested in Tonali - let them have him and take Locatelli off them in turn.
Anderson would be my second choice. My main concern is that although he is good defensively, I still don't think he's quite strong enough in that area that there wouldn't be some initial problems when partnered with Mainoo. He'll likely still improve with time, but at least for a couple of seasons I think the pair of them would get beaten in the middle of the park a bit too often, plus may continue have issues with fully covering the space.
If you have the money and are capable, then adding both Locatelli and Anderson would be great, but I'd doubt either would want to join to sit on the bench behind Mainoo.
There are no Cunha or Mbeumo equivalents with Casemiro's profile in the 25-26 year age bracket who can come in and you'd expect to similarly hit the ground running at a very high level. Some people here mentioning Tonali and Guimaraes, but neither of them offer enough defensively to partner Mainoo. The likes of Baleba or Wharton would be too weak and too much of a downgrade initially.
If you are worried about spending a large amount on a 28 year-old, then bring in a couple of cheaper understudies for the future alongside him, so there's less problem with succession planning.
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I haven't actually seen a lot of Baleba. Is he a #6 or more a #8?
I've watched him a few times this year and he's an aggressive 6, pushing forward with his press.
That said, he's looked a very avarage player this season and I have a bad feeling that we'll get him and he'll be a waste of money.
Hardly a footballer this season. Have to stay well clear. Get Guimaraes and Anderson and we are set
Which is going to join to sit on the bench behind Mainoo?
Watching the Brighton vs Palace game, Baleba just does not impose himself enough on the game. It’s like he’s happy to just let everyone else dictate the midfield and he only comes alive when he needs to make a tackle. We need more from a midfielder.
Out of those 3 Mainoo would be sitting on the bench.
Agreed. He looks lazy at times and offers very little
Blaeba has to come off at half time, he's a liability
He’s been pretty poor today, and the season in general. What has happened to him? His form has really fallen off the cliff.
Tonali could be a good option and sounds like he's not massively settled at Newcastle.
He's not really a 6. Also, if he's not settled in Newcastle, would he be that much happier in Manchester? Let him go to Juve while they sell Locatelli to United.
Trying to think of this from a data science perspective.
There's multiple ways and situations where a player has a tendency to get dispossessed.
There's dispossession through unforced errors that puts pressure on your team and leads to chances conceded (poor touch in your half, misplaced passes back to your defenders, fumbling an easy pass to set off a counter). Let's call this characteristic poor recall. That means someone with good recall will rarely make mistakes and is dependable on the ball. Players like Kimmich, Busquets, Rodri have high recall. The cost of mistakes here is chance of conceding.
Then there's dispossession while trying out through balls or taking your man on for a dribble or trying an ambitious lofted pass, mostly in the attacking half. Let's call this poor precision. Players with high volume of attempts and reasonably good performance here are chance creators, like Bruno or Cherki or Saka. The cost of mistakes here is lack of chance creation.
Ugarte has poor recall and poor precision - he makes expensive mistakes in defence, and doesn't create much.
Casemiro has variable recall but good precision - depending on form, he sometimes makes blunders at the back, but always rotates the ball well and looks for through ball.
I think with Mainoo and Bruno on the pitch, we can afford to have players with low pecision, but we cannot afford to have players with low recall. We need solid dependable ball recyclers who will connect midfield to defence, winn the ball back often and do the basics well. Allow creative players to do their thing.
I think Baleba has low recall this season, and that's cause for concern.
There's multiple ways and situations where a player has a tendency to get dispossessed.
There's dispossession through unforced errors that puts pressure on your team and leads to chances conceded (poor touch in your half, misplaced passes back to your defenders, fumbling an easy pass to set off a counter). Let's call this characteristic poor recall. That means someone with good recall will rarely make mistakes and is dependable on the ball. Players like Kimmich, Busquets, Rodri have high recall. The cost of mistakes here is chance of conceding.
Then there's dispossession while trying out through balls or taking your man on for a dribble or trying an ambitious lofted pass, mostly in the attacking half. Let's call this poor precision. Players with high volume of attempts and reasonably good performance here are chance creators, like Bruno or Cherki or Saka. The cost of mistakes here is lack of chance creation.
Ugarte has poor recall and poor precision - he makes expensive mistakes in defence, and doesn't create much.
Casemiro has variable recall but good precision - depending on form, he sometimes makes blunders at the back, but always rotates the ball well and looks for through ball.
I think with Mainoo and Bruno on the pitch, we can afford to have players with low pecision, but we cannot afford to have players with low recall. We need solid dependable ball recyclers who will connect midfield to defence, winn the ball back often and do the basics well. Allow creative players to do their thing.
I think Baleba has low recall this season, and that's cause for concern.
If Mainoo hasn't signed that contract yet, and he's getting benched in the big games for Anderson, then he's not going to sign that contract.
Agreed, he didn't impress me either. Have seen him three times this season, admittedly that isn't a lot but he really doesn't seem that impressive, certainly not a 100m player.
Wharton looked okay at times, good positioning some okay passes but I didn't really see the supposed passing range he has either today.