We should not be deceived. Our only hope of replacing Casemiro properly come the summer is by signing 2 players who combined offer what he does as a singular player. We are unlikely to find in a singular player one who offers the aerial dominance, duel winning dominance and progressive passing excellence he has as a dedicated DM.
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- Thread starter luke511
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I genuinely think the only one who could really offer it to the standard Casemiro is bringing, is Rice. After that you're trading off certain aspects, which is fine.
Petar Sucic really caught my eye against Arsenal and I watched him a couple of times since. I actually think he'd be a fantastic option. He passes well from deep off both feet, gets up and down the pitch and has great positional awareness to make tackles and intercept.
The thing is, although they had defined roles on the pitch, these guys also had a very high technical floor, meaning they were able to specialize in a role for the sake of the team.
It’s very different to hiring a specialist that can only do one thing and expect his teammates to make up for his shortcomings
I agree. We missed the boat on that sadly. I've been saying since his West Ham days he is the exact same template of player Casemiro when he was younger.
As for Sucic. He remains me a lot of Kovacic. His is a similar all rounder. A midfielder like him and one other would really help us replace a lot of what we will lose from Casemiro in our overall selection. A reason I hope we do not miss out on Anderson at Forrest as one of the 2 players I believe we will buy.
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Who I also would have loved as well, if we could get a younger version of Kovacic, I'd be over the moon. I see a lot of Bruno in Sucic.
Agreed, I think Anderson has to be the top priority. Semenyo was our top target last summer and ended up with Mbuemo, so I hope even if it doesn't work out, there's a great second option.
Your first sentence makes little sense - United can't play with 12 players on the pitch... In order for United to even stand still, or to progress, they need to find players who are the most elite and the most possible key things for their positions. Arsenal have Rice, Chelsea have Caicedo, City did have Rodri, United are losing Casemiro. Two limited midfielders will not win the midfield against opposing teams with two elite midfielders with few weaknesses. Losing Casemiro and "replacing" him with two limited players won't cut it.
On your second sentence though - there is one "singular player" who might be obtainable who offers at least 2.5 of those things as a dedicated DM: Locatelli. The main thing he lacks is not being elite in the air, but he's still very good there.
Chema Andres also could get there in a few years - he's already incredibly strong at ball winning and in the air, and his progressive passing shows promise. He would make a good under-study.
Locatelli.
Indeed, obviously while your midfielders will eachstill have different roles, ultimately you still want them all to be as complete as players in their own right.
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I’m often convinced the Gardain and the athletic publish chatgtp summaries of caf threads.
Another example, with this thread, here
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...manchester-united-replace-him-michael-carrick
Another example, with this thread, here
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...manchester-united-replace-him-michael-carrick
Its your fault alone it makes no sense. Its YOU imagining we need 12 players on pitch to do what I'm talking of. I didn't post in Greek. I said we are unlikely to find in one player what we are losing in Casemiro.Just like we never found in one player what we lost in Roy Keane in the past, for example. Nothing about that implies operating with "12 players". Let alone that the 2 recruits have to be " limited players'. I'm referring to having a selection of midfielders that collectively give us those attributes
You citing to me Rice at Arsenal or let alone limted midfielders is stagerringly irrelevant to my point. Caicedo for example is a top DM. Despite his top quality he does not have in him the singular attributes Casemiro offers on the role even if we were to buy a player identical to him as Case's replacement. Heck Rice himself who is the closest thing out there to a young Casemiro STILL doesn't have the line breaking passing that is a Hallmark of the current Casemiro.
You have literally made my point for me .....I want two players who offer what Casemiro does. I'd gladly bag a Locatelli type and another player who is elite in the air and decent at the other attributes too. Giving us the kind of midfield on a match day (with subs) that is like having "a full Casemiro" around.
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Chill bro, not that deep...
I am chill. Just naturally too wordy
But you are not solely replacing the attributes of one player on the pitch when you try and replace one Casemiro with two other players.
You are having to replace Casemiro's attributes, plus the attributes of the other midfielder (i.e. Mainoo) who has to be taken out for the two coming in.
That is in part why I pointed out that you can't have 12 players on the pitch...
I haven't though - because in the other thread you were rather talking about you ideally wanting Tonali + Anderson as two players to somehow replace Casemiro.
Let's just look at one set of metrics for now for simplicity's sake: 'Pass-Adjusted Tackles + Interceptions'.
Casemiro manages 11.74 PAdj T + I per 90 minutes
Tonali manages 5.64 (48% of Case)
Anderson manages 5.68 *48% of Case)
So with Tonali + Anderson combined you get 11.32 (96% of Case). So almost, but even then not fully, Casemiro's numbers alone... err, great?!
Now wait a minute, to bring those two players on the pitch, you have to take out not just Casemiro, but also eg Mainoo, who has 4.8.
So the "two players to replace Casemiro" are really replacing 11.74 + 4.8 = 16.54
So you haven't fully replaced Casemiro at all, you're at only 68% of the tackles+interceptions which you had in midfield before.
You could replicate the same exercise for most of Casemiro's midfield stats, because he's great at most of them. That is an example of why you should aim for one player as close as possible to replace Casemiro, rather than hoping that somehow adding two players to a squad with mixed abilities will combine to reach the same amount of what you already had on the pitch (because they won't).
Looks a player
I'd sign him as a +1 to whoever we want to sign as the real Casemiro replacement in the summer. Only 20 and playing in a relatively weak league, but its clear from the clips hes a talented young CM and would be a maybe to adjust to the premier league
Playing in more competitions next season we could use him in cup games and get him ready more for the season after to compete for a starting spot in the league
25m for this lad would be a hell of a purchase as he’s been linked with Brighton
Not surprised. He looks like the type of player they sign as they probably sell off a first team midfielder - maybe Ayari since hes doing better than Baleba this season, to one of the bigger clubs. Then they sign him and he plays just as good or better than the player they sold and we all ask how they keep doing it
i would say that definite targets should be anderson, fernandes, baleba and this lad Yirenkyi
need at least two of them and if ugarte leaves then maybe bring in a younger player to develop who's already shown some promise
need at least two of them and if ugarte leaves then maybe bring in a younger player to develop who's already shown some promise
Yeah maybe.
It's a shame Ineos don't seem to be using Nice as a feeder club, even though they in theory should be able to now. Signing Siltanen and loaning him to Nice for a season or two would be ideal. I don't think the Swiss league is really much of a step up from the Swedish one.
If we need two new CMs on the pitch to replace Casemiro, who gets dropped? Mainoo I assume.
If Anderson decides to move elsewhere, should we try our luck at Vitinha? Bruno could help us to convince him. The transfer fee shouldn't be much different from Anderson.
It’s interesting reading the Baleba and Anderson threads.
In the Baleba thread, people seem fully aware that we dodged a bullet, mainly because he’s only had one really good season. Yet when it comes to Anderson, nobody even questions the price — even though Anderson is basically what Baleba was last year: one proper season at a top level.
I’ve got nothing against signing players with big potential. But you don’t pay a premium fee for potential. You pay premium money for players who have delivered multiple top-level seasons and for whom you know exactly what you’re getting.
£80m+ for players like Anderson, Wharton or Baleba is just nonsense.
In the Baleba thread, people seem fully aware that we dodged a bullet, mainly because he’s only had one really good season. Yet when it comes to Anderson, nobody even questions the price — even though Anderson is basically what Baleba was last year: one proper season at a top level.
I’ve got nothing against signing players with big potential. But you don’t pay a premium fee for potential. You pay premium money for players who have delivered multiple top-level seasons and for whom you know exactly what you’re getting.
£80m+ for players like Anderson, Wharton or Baleba is just nonsense.
I dont think that is accurate. Baleba was not that good last year. I said that last summer too. In fact, Anderson was better and one of the reasons Forest did great last year.
In my opinion, this is the second year Anderson has been really good. And he has been good both in a team that does well and in a team that struggle. Anderson is a whole different story from the hype we saw relating to Baleba.
The weird thing is that there was so much fuzz around Baleba and so little around Anderson last summer.
kinda agree. Internationally, no club would pay that amount for one of the three players. Only top teams in the EPL would. For £80m+ we could buy Vitinha, Joao Neves or Tchouameni.
That being said, if our board thinks that we need a EPL proven midfielder, I can live with overspending.
Wrong again. "Two midfielders for our selection" That means a partner for Mainoo and the other as our first off the bench.
I think in terms of the 3 midfielders collective characteristics. Casemiro has found his legs and really finished off his time with us in style.
I think we have to keep Bruno as the attacking option in a midfield triangle (tho defensively he sprints forward and tracks back), and my hope is that the organization and new coach goes all in on Mainoo. So Anderson or Scotty McTominay would be my choice to replace Casemiro and neither are carbon copies but both can contribute to new DNA of our midfield 3.
We'll need further reinforcements as well if we secure Champions league.
I think we have to keep Bruno as the attacking option in a midfield triangle (tho defensively he sprints forward and tracks back), and my hope is that the organization and new coach goes all in on Mainoo. So Anderson or Scotty McTominay would be my choice to replace Casemiro and neither are carbon copies but both can contribute to new DNA of our midfield 3.
We'll need further reinforcements as well if we secure Champions league.
As a first off the bench for both Mainoo and the new DM then? That player would need to be a really good all rounder to cover both of what Mainoo and the new DM do, and realistically wouldn't do either of their roles as well as them or as well as a dedicated backup. And we'd still need a fourth midfielder on top of that who would have to be.. another all rounder.
It would make more sense to me to have a DM backup and a CM backup who have similar profiles to the first teamers they'd be replacing, for continuity when they need resting or are injured.
That's all assuming we stick with two in the middle. And of course the "backup" can become the starter if they're playing better.
Realistically We are unlikely to find in one midfielder what Casemiro offers. Thus IMHO we need two players who combined offer it. A starter 6 or all rounder who compliments Mainoo. Then another competition player who offers the other half that the starter and Mainoo can't that was a Casemiro trait. The 4th player can be a young 6/all rounder to replace an Ugarte.
The Mctominay ship has sailed. He won't be moving any where to be back up again.
Don't talk like that Chief! He's my favorite player and he belongs here. In the starting 11 btw...
Unless we switch to two 10s. He ain't never comming back.
Maybe. Mainoo has talent but he's yet to fully develop in a definitive role. He's got strengths and weaknesses as a 6, as an 8 and even a 10. Irrespective of that I am a firm believer of having quality competition across the board. It keeps players on their toes. If Mainoo is good enough then he'll win a first team place irrespective of competition
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Yeah we definitely need some competition in CM
Should try to get Goretzka, experience quality midfielder and he is free this summer.
Good point, but if as we hope, get CL football next season, there will be plenty of games to go around. I was looking back recently at the amount of games Nicky Butt played for us each season. We always think of Keane and Scholes as our main two, but Butt was basically give or take 40 games a season for 10 years. Remember we've had no cup runs this season either, ideally next season we get a run in both tournament's, factor in injuries etc also. I think it's basically nailed on, rightly or wrongly depending on your personal view on him, is that one of the mids we get is Baleba. He's still young enough that I doubt he's demanding during transfer talks that he has to start every game. Same with Mainoo, if he's still playing a good amount of games I'd say he'd be happy enough.
Absolutely not.
First if all Goretzka is what, a slightly lesser version of Rabiot. At 31yo (or thereabouts) his legs will be getting more and more weary by the month.
Main issue for me though is that he seems to be way too sure of his social/political views and thus felt very comfortable surrounded by people with the exact same thoughts like him in Bayern/NT. He likes feeling like one of the good guys in a familiar environment although some of his colleagues are not comfortable but feel pressured by Goretzka + gang to follow suit.
Would that be the case in say Manchester? Could it be an opportunity to learn too not simply on the pitch but besides it too?
Also, I don't see a hunger in him like Granit Xhaka at Sunderland or Miroslav Klose at Lazio. Those guys went to lesser teams and made them better. Does Goretzka have the balls to go to a "Udinese" or "St Etienne" and leave a mark? Either way I don't feel United should be it.
Not good enough
I would be seriously worried if we don't sign someone proven to partner Baleba like a Tonali, on the other hand don't have the same concerns if we can somehow lure Anderson out of City grasps
I love the guy but he's not that good a passer or ball carrier man, come on. If we had a fit Onana playing in his place for example, I don't think we'd notice Case has moved on.
To cite his politics as the main issue and completely ignoring his horrible performances the last few years is a wild take. Especially since his politics are very positive, as he’s speaking out against racism, antisemitism and other ills of society.
I don’t understand were this „injury prone“ thing comes from. It’s simply not true. He hasn’t missed a single game due to injuries all season. And last season he missed a handful of games at best. He isn’t injury prone at all.
I agree with the other parts, though. He’s just not that good.
Who would you like to see as experienced option?
He was quite injury prone in seasons prior though, ironically when he used to be very good. He's missed 64 games in 8 seasons at Bayern but only 9 of which have come in the last 3.
I don't agree that he was never good though, he was very good when he first moved to Bayern but he's lost his legs and energy, which were one of his best features before.