Centre Midfielder Transfer Links

Thanks! I wonder how much La Liga inflates the passing numbers. All the Madrid / Barca players are really high; but then they're playing with great teams against (generally) much worse talent.

Just looking at the passing data, Garner seems like the one we should be going for in addition to Anderson. And then maybe Camavinga/Wharton/Fernandes. Don't really see why Tonali would be a priority given his age/price, but obvi there's also more to the position than passing.
Popped in my head reading your message some I'm wondering if any of that stats guys will know; could Garners passing stats be slightly elevated due to playing at full back for a while?

I imagine a lot of progressive passes are counted when passing from full back to winger and it's an option most of the central midfielders he'll be compared against don't ever have.

I would still really like him back, and his passing was always excellent in the youth sides, but just wondering if it's a quirk for the stats to consider.
 
So last few days from the media hasn't sounded great..

Anderson going to City, Tonali too expensive, Wharton to similar to Mainoo. The only one left that the media talks about is Baleba who have been ass all season.

Doesn't look that good since we need 3 cms this summer.
Don't worry about the shite you read in the media.
All that matters is which players are wearing a Utd shirt next season and supporting them.
 
Just saw a wise suggestion that we stop signing players that are £80m+ and focus on actually scouting talent

Are we convinced signing two of Stiller, M Fernandes and Joao Gomes wouldn’t sort out our midfield problems and cost £80m for both?

Can then address other positions if we have a say £200m kitty

I’d fecking love for us to sign that next hidden gem, and find value in the market
 
Just saw a wise suggestion that we stop signing players that are £80m+ and focus on actually scouting talent

Are we convinced signing two of Stiller, M Fernandes and Joao Gomes wouldn’t sort out our midfield problems and cost £80m for both?

Can then address other positions if we have a say £200m kitty

I’d fecking love for us to sign that next hidden gem, and find value in the market
It's a sound advise if we weren't in the desperate position that we need to overhaul the midfield and are probably in the CL next season. It doesn't help that the transfer market is obliterated and non-elite players go for 60-80m. I imagine even Lamine Camara and Sangaré from Ligue 1 will cost a heavy sum.
 
Just looking at the passing data, Garner seems like the one we should be going for in addition to Anderson.

I can't really imagine going for both - they are too similar to each other.

Can't imagine Anderson joining Utd if he doesn't have a starting role either, and Utd aren't going to pay 70-80mil for Garner to be on the bench.

Thanks! I wonder how much La Liga inflates the passing numbers. All the Madrid / Barca players are really high; but then they're playing with great teams against (generally) much worse talent.

Yeah it probably makes some difference. More time and space for them.
 
Popped in my head reading your message some I'm wondering if any of that stats guys will know; could Garners passing stats be slightly elevated due to playing at full back for a while?

I imagine a lot of progressive passes are counted when passing from full back to winger and it's an option most of the central midfielders he'll be compared against don't ever have.

It might be a bit, but more because crosses in to the box are a decent source of threat on the ball, and as a full-back you get quite a few opportunities to cross. But even as a CM he drifts wide to cross the ball a lot as well.

Playing full-back typically reduces pass completion percentage though, as you actually have fewer passing angles and options available to you when you're stuck by the touch-line. You often only have a 180* view of the pitch, relative to say CMs who have the full 360* to find a team-mate.
 
Joao Gomes
that next hidden gem

Erm. That's not Joao Gomes. Would barely move the needle from Ugarte.

Mateus Fernandes will only be inexpensive if West Ham get relegated; if they do I'd be surprised if United don't move to sign him.

Stiller is like the German Wharton; don't see him being able to partner Mainoo. Too slow and weak.

A real "hidden gem" would be pulling a rabbit out of the hat like Inter did in buying Sucic last summer from Zagreb for frickin' €14mil!... :(

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Erm. That's not Joao Gomes. Would barely move the needle from Ugarte.

Mateus Fernandes will only be inexpensive if West Ham get relegated; if they do I'd be surprised if United don't move to sign him.

Stiller is like the German Wharton; don't see him being able to partner Mainoo. Too slow and weak.

A real "hidden gem" would be pulling a rabbit out of the hat like Inter did in buying Sucic last summer from Zagreb for frickin' €14mil!... :(

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He is quality, stood out for me against Arsenal and in the CL when i've watched Inter. I think closest thing I've seen to Bruno in his actions on the ball and has that stereotypical, balkan technician, style.
Popped in my head reading your message some I'm wondering if any of that stats guys will know; could Garners passing stats be slightly elevated due to playing at full back for a while?

I imagine a lot of progressive passes are counted when passing from full back to winger and it's an option most of the central midfielders he'll be compared against don't ever have.

I would still really like him back, and his passing was always excellent in the youth sides, but just wondering if it's a quirk for the stats to consider.
I don't think so because the xT metric isn't about just progressing the ball, it's about progressing the ball into an area that gives a team a higher to lead to a goal. @goldenboy's point is right to highlight his crossing may be "inflating" it. It depends what you really care about and you'd need to dig into the individual contributors to his overall xT numbers to get a clearer picture. This highlights the saying, stats are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive or interesting, but what they conceal is vital or essential.
 
I can't really imagine going for both - they are too similar to each other.

Can't imagine Anderson joining Utd if he doesn't have a starting role either, and Utd aren't going to pay 70-80mil for Garner to be on the bench.



Yeah it probably makes some difference. More time and space for them.
I meant that getting one of Anderson or Garner should be our top priority. As opposed to say Anderson with Tonali as backup plan.
 
Erm. That's not Joao Gomes. Would barely move the needle from Ugarte.

Mateus Fernandes will only be inexpensive if West Ham get relegated; if they do I'd be surprised if United don't move to sign him.

Stiller is like the German Wharton; don't see him being able to partner Mainoo. Too slow and weak.

A real "hidden gem" would be pulling a rabbit out of the hat like Inter did in buying Sucic last summer from Zagreb for frickin' €14mil!... :(

BKOrYN4.png
Are you the same guy who kept misquoting me before? I didn’t necessarily say Joao Gomes is the next hidden gem. But I mean we should aim for players of great value, which Joao Gomes would be. Anderson to Forest for £35/40m for example, not another £80m+ flop

We need ready made talent that doesn’t cost a fortune. There’s multiple names being flung around this thread that we could get for better value than any of Anderson, Wharton and Tonali
 
Are you the same guy who kept misquoting me before? I didn’t necessarily say Joao Gomes is the next hidden gem. But I mean we should aim for players of great value, which Joao Gomes would be. Anderson to Forest for £35/40m for example, not another £80m+ flop

£35/40mil for Joao Gomes is not "great value"; it's probably about his value, it may even be a bit high considering some of the actual relative bargain CM buys in the PL in the last couple of seasons, e.g. Sander Berge from Burnley to Fulham for £20 million, Anton Stach from Hoffenheim to Leeds for £17.4mil, Mateus Fernandes from Southampton to West Ham for a similar c. £38mil fee.

Just because a player costs United c. £40mil doesn't mean they can't also be another "flop" (see Ugarte).

Btw, the signing of a then 21 year-old Anderson is not really comparable to Joao Gomes - not least because it was even more crazy good value, considering the true fee Forest paid for him was more like just £15mil, as Vlachodimos was sold to Newcastle for £20mil as part of the deal...
 
Chema Andres VFB Stuttgart links growing.
New Rhodri apparently. Statman Dave just put out a video on him, is a good watch (sorry, not allowed to post media).
Looks a very good player. Being very right footed, seems his only weakness.
 
Chema Andres VFB Stuttgart links growing.
New Rhodri apparently. Statman Dave just put out a video on him, is a good watch (sorry, not allowed to post media).
Looks a very good player. Being very right footed, seems his only weakness.
Where are the links coming from then, presume Vivell will know him due to his Bundesliga connection
 
Wharton has never really impressed me that much - I like his passing, but he is not the midfielder we need. Maybe we should try persuading Caicedo to leave Chelsea, it may not be as impossible as it sounds. There are rumours about a lot of players wanting to leave Chelsea
 
Chema Andres VFB Stuttgart links growing.
New Rhodri apparently. Statman Dave just put out a video on him, is a good watch (sorry, not allowed to post media).
Looks a very good player. Being very right footed, seems his only weakness.

Interesting talent, but would have to be as the third midfielder. He has less than 1500 min as a senior. Is he even a regular startet at Stutgart?

I could be wrong, but I think the fact that he looks like/resemble Rodri quite a bit cause alot of hype.
 
Chema Andres VFB Stuttgart links growing.
New Rhodri apparently. Statman Dave just put out a video on him, is a good watch (sorry, not allowed to post media).
Looks a very good player. Being very right footed, seems his only weakness.
But Magreed have a buy back clause and why would we do business with those cnuts again?
 
I can't really imagine going for both - they are too similar to each other.

I’m not sure I agree that they are.

They are two very complete midfielders, but in my opinion James Garner is a more natural 6 while Elliot Anderson is a 8. While Anderson was an attacker in his younger days, James Garner was a central defender at one point, and I think this difference is still reflective of their mindset as footballers.

James Garner is a much better player at protecting the area right infront of the CBs. Off the ball they offer very different things; Garner reads danger and holds his position, while Anderson hunts the ball aggressively. I do think Anderson could do more of whar Garner do, and Garner can definitely me aggressive like Anderson. But in my opinion it is not their natural game.

I also think we see the difference in mindset on the ball. While Anderson always try to move the ball forward, Garner is much more about keeping the ball. I think this also show up in their stats. Anderson is much more progressive in his passing, raking up better numbers in that perspect, while Garner has a higher completion rate. I also think that explain why Anderson makes so many passes compared to Garner; he always makes himself available. Even in advanced areas of the pitch and while under pressure. Hence, he is dispossessed quite often compared to someone like James Garner. James Garner is very rarely dispossessed, but he dont take up those advanced positions in the final third like Anderson. Not as often anyway. Garner is more restrictive in his approach. Both to be in position to protect the defence when his team lose the ball but probably also to avoid losing the ball himself.

In my opinion, Garner and Anderson could be a dynamic pivot that would complement each other extremely well. A bit like Goretzka and Kimmich. Or like the midfield duos at Man Utd in the 90s.

In that duo, James Garner is the hot commodity in my opinion. There is a huge amount of 8s that is good and has potential to be very good if we cant get Anderson (Mateus Fernandes, Scott, Wharton to name a few). But there is very few I would label a natural six. There is someone like Baleba, but I think he is a bit of a gamble and quite young for that position in a top club.
 
I’m not sure I agree that they are.

They are two very complete midfielders, but in my opinion James Garner is a more natural 6 while Elliot Anderson is a 8. While Anderson was an attacker in his younger days, James Garner was a central defender at one point, and I think this difference is still reflective of their mindset as footballers.

James Garner is a much better player at protecting the area right infront of the CBs. Off the ball they offer very different things; Garner reads danger and holds his position, while Anderson hunts the ball aggressively. I do think Anderson could do more of whar Garner do, and Garner can definitely me aggressive like Anderson. But in my opinion it is not their natural game.

I also think we see the difference in mindset on the ball. While Anderson always try to move the ball forward, Garner is much more about keeping the ball. I think this also show up in their stats. Anderson is much more progressive in his passing, raking up better numbers in that perspect, while Garner has a higher completion rate. I also think that explain why Anderson makes so many passes compared to Garner; he always makes himself available. Even in advanced areas of the pitch and while under pressure. Hence, he is dispossessed quite often compared to someone like James Garner. James Garner is very rarely dispossessed, but he dont take up those advanced positions in the final third like Anderson. Not as often anyway. Garner is more restrictive in his approach. Both to be in position to protect the defence when his team lose the ball but probably also to avoid losing the ball himself.

In my opinion, Garner and Anderson could be a dynamic pivot that would complement each other extremely well. A bit like Goretzka and Kimmich. Or like the midfield duos at Man Utd in the 90s.

In that duo, James Garner is the hot commodity in my opinion. There is a huge amount of 8s that is good and has potential to be very good if we cant get Anderson (Mateus Fernandes, Scott, Wharton to name a few). But there is very few I would label a natural six. There is someone like Baleba, but I think he is a bit of a gamble and quite young for that position in a top club.
Yep. That’s why either Garner-Anderson or Fernandes-Anderson.
 
Chema Andres VFB Stuttgart links growing.
New Rhodri apparently. Statman Dave just put out a video on him, is a good watch (sorry, not allowed to post media).
Looks a very good player. Being very right footed, seems his only weakness.
Read that he had a good first half, less good now. Stuttgart would be open to sell but Real has a 13m buy back clause
 
I’m not sure I agree that they are.

They are two very complete midfielders, but in my opinion James Garner is a more natural 6 while Elliot Anderson is a 8. While Anderson was an attacker in his younger days, James Garner was a central defender at one point, and I think this difference is still reflective of their mindset as footballers.

James Garner is a much better player at protecting the area right infront of the CBs. Off the ball they offer very different things; Garner reads danger and holds his position, while Anderson hunts the ball aggressively. I do think Anderson could do more of whar Garner do, and Garner can definitely me aggressive like Anderson. But in my opinion it is not their natural game.

I also think we see the difference in mindset on the ball. While Anderson always try to move the ball forward, Garner is much more about keeping the ball. I think this also show up in their stats. Anderson is much more progressive in his passing, raking up better numbers in that perspect, while Garner has a higher completion rate. I also think that explain why Anderson makes so many passes compared to Garner; he always makes himself available. Even in advanced areas of the pitch and while under pressure. Hence, he is dispossessed quite often compared to someone like James Garner. James Garner is very rarely dispossessed, but he dont take up those advanced positions in the final third like Anderson. Not as often anyway. Garner is more restrictive in his approach. Both to be in position to protect the defence when his team lose the ball but probably also to avoid losing the ball himself.

In my opinion, Garner and Anderson could be a dynamic pivot that would complement each other extremely well. A bit like Goretzka and Kimmich. Or like the midfield duos at Man Utd in the 90s.

In that duo, James Garner is the hot commodity in my opinion. There is a huge amount of 8s that is good and has potential to be very good if we cant get Anderson (Mateus Fernandes, Scott, Wharton to name a few). But there is very few I would label a natural six. There is someone like Baleba, but I think he is a bit of a gamble and quite young for that position in a top club.
Armed with a new contract, Everton would demand a stratospheric fee closer to their record sale. I don't think our pride would ever allow us to pay £80m for a player we sold for under £10m, very good player but the optics around the deal will make it impossible in my view.

That said, the dynamic duo that he and Anderson could instantly create in midfield would give us an edge and possibly make it the best midfield in the league on paper, considering that they would be playing behind Bruno.
 
Armed with a new contract, Everton would demand a stratospheric fee closer to their record sale. I don't think our pride would ever allow us to pay £80m for a player we sold for under £10m, very good player but the optics around the deal will make it impossible in my view.

That said, the dynamic duo that he and Anderson could instantly create in midfield would give us an edge and possibly make it the best midfield in the league on paper, considering that they would be playing behind Bruno.

If the fee was £80 mill we would have to pay approx £65 mill. I think that would be fair. Both from our perspective and theirs. I agree about the optics, but I’m not sure Wilcox and Berrada care that the old management end up looking stupid.

I guess Murtough and Arnold would look stupid if another top club signed him for a big fee anyway. It should be a bigger worry for Ineos how they will look if Garner end up a success at another big club while they end up signing someone less suited or not as good.
 
Armed with a new contract, Everton would demand a stratospheric fee closer to their record sale. I don't think our pride would ever allow us to pay £80m for a player we sold for under £10m, very good player but the optics around the deal will make it impossible in my view.

That said, the dynamic duo that he and Anderson could instantly create in midfield would give us an edge and possibly make it the best midfield in the league on paper, considering that they would be playing behind Bruno.

I honestly don't understand the obsession with Elliot Anderson when we’re looking at a £200m budget tops, even after sales. Spending nearly half of that on him, plus a massive fee for Branthwaite, just doesn't make sense for the balance of the squad.
Under Carrick, we desperately need a proper regista. Especially with Casemiro leaving, we need someone who can win the ball, control the game, and dictate the tempo from deep. For me, Manuel Locatelli is the perfect fit. His stats in Serie A and the CL are elite, and he provides that veteran leadership and tactical discipline our young players need to grow. He's exactly what Carrick was for us.

My second choice would be Samuele Ricci. There’s a reason City and Real Madrid are tracking him. He offers almost everything Locatelli does—elite ball retention and vision—just perhaps with a slightly lower ceiling for now.
Why break the bank for Anderson when we can get a world-class controller for a fraction of the price and actually fix the spine of the team? We have so many other holes to plug:
  • Striker: With Zirkzee leaving, we need a high-level replacement.
  • Goalkeeper: Both Bayindir and Onana are on their way out, so a new goalie is a priority.
  • Left-back: This is Shaw’s last season, and we can’t rely on his fitness anyway.
Blowing the entire budget on two players while the rest of the squad is paper-thin would be a massive mistake. We need a smarter, more balanced rebuild
 
Just saw a wise suggestion that we stop signing players that are £80m+ and focus on actually scouting talent

Are we convinced signing two of Stiller, M Fernandes and Joao Gomes wouldn’t sort out our midfield problems and cost £80m for both?

Can then address other positions if we have a say £200m kitty

I’d fecking love for us to sign that next hidden gem, and find value in the market
Gomes will in no way drive the bar higher

Also stiller im unsure about (not ruling it out) but he looks slow and I’m a bit cautious about imports from the German league to the PL
 
I honestly don't understand the obsession with Elliot Anderson when we’re looking at a £200m budget tops, even after sales. Spending nearly half of that on him, plus a massive fee for Branthwaite, just doesn't make sense for the balance of the squad.
Under Carrick, we desperately need a proper regista. Especially with Casemiro leaving, we need someone who can win the ball, control the game, and dictate the tempo from deep. For me, Manuel Locatelli is the perfect fit. His stats in Serie A and the CL are elite, and he provides that veteran leadership and tactical discipline our young players need to grow. He's exactly what Carrick was for us.

My second choice would be Samuele Ricci. There’s a reason City and Real Madrid are tracking him. He offers almost everything Locatelli does—elite ball retention and vision—just perhaps with a slightly lower ceiling for now.
Why break the bank for Anderson when we can get a world-class controller for a fraction of the price and actually fix the spine of the team? We have so many other holes to plug:
  • Striker: With Zirkzee leaving, we need a high-level replacement.
  • Goalkeeper: Both Bayindir and Onana are on their way out, so a new goalie is a priority.
  • Left-back: This is Shaw’s last season, and we can’t rely on his fitness anyway.
Blowing the entire budget on two players while the rest of the squad is paper-thin would be a massive mistake. We need a smarter, more balanced rebuild
Branthwaite? I haven’t seen any links to him at all this season
 
Chema Andres VFB Stuttgart links growing.

Where have there been any genuine, decent links of United looking at him?

Is he even a regular startet at Stutgart?

He is in and out of the team. I think one major part of that is he's not really Stuttgart's player, and they probably already know he will go back to Madrid next season, either to be kept or sold on - so there is no real incentive for them to keep starting him ahead of their own more ready players.

It's also his first real season of senior football, so there is a need to manage his minutes.
 
Ah, so you consider Mateus Fernandes more of a 6? Not sure I have seen much in that role.
More Garner is adept at getting forward and knowing exactly where to go and when.

I think Garner has high intelligence and reads the whole of midfield well.
 
Just saw a wise suggestion that we stop signing players that are £80m+ and focus on actually scouting talent

Branthwaite? I haven’t seen any links to him at all this season

@golden_blunder The Branthwaite links have cooled because the £80m+ price tag is absurd, but he’s still the benchmark for that overpriced PL profile. My point is exactly what @Lennon7 says: we need to stop chasing these £80m-£100m 'shiny toys' like Elliot Anderson and actually scout for value.
If we have a £200m kitty, we can't afford to blow half of it on Anderson when we have a massive rebuild under Carrick:
  • Regista: Instead of the 'English tax', Manuel Locatelli or Samuele Ricci for £30m-ish gives us the tactical discipline and tempo control we’ve lacked since Carrick himself retired.
  • Left-back: With Shaw's career winding down, David Raum (£34m) is a no-brainer. I know the Bundesliga-to-PL transition is a concern, but his 35km/h+ speed and elite crossing stats make him the perfect engine for the left side.
  • Striker/LW: With Zirkzee leaving, we need a high-level replacement who is dominant on set-pieces and corners, or a top-class LW. Bringing in a winger would allow our other forwards to rotate up top more effectively and give us a completely different dynamic.
We still need to replace both Onana and Bayindir this summer. If we spend £100m on Anderson, how do we fill the other 4-5 holes in the squad? This balanced approach actually builds a team with a spine, not just a highlight reel.
 
Armed with a new contract, Everton would demand a stratospheric fee closer to their record sale. I don't think our pride would ever allow us to pay £80m for a player we sold for under £10m, very good player but the optics around the deal will make it impossible in my view.

That said, the dynamic duo that he and Anderson could instantly create in midfield would give us an edge and possibly make it the best midfield in the league on paper, considering that they would be playing behind Bruno.
We let Pogba go on a free then paid £89 million to bring him back after he did well at Juve then let him go on a free again, at least with Garner he’s proving to be exactly what we need rather than a luxury like Pogba was.

If I could choose I’d go with Garner and Anderson then bring in Chema in as back up alongsude Mainoo which I think covers almost every base needed in midfield whilst it also has potential to improve, perfect age wise for Ineos want too.
 
I am certain the Garner boat sailed when he signed a new deal at Everton, maybe we are looking at this Ricci mentioned on here but keeping it under the radar. We have been linked to Locatelli in the past but never came to anything which says we aren't convinced by him.
 
I think a lot is going to depend on who the next coach is to determine how we setup in midfield
To an extent yes, but we also just need to simply sign quality midfielders. We’ve been ran through too often this season - I think most should be able to improve us regardless of set up (but appreciate if we’re to compete for the big ones it’s something to consider)
 
We let Pogba go on a free then paid £89 million to bring him back after he did well at Juve then let him go on a free again, at least with Garner he’s proving to be exactly what we need rather than a luxury like Pogba was.

If I could choose I’d go with Garner and Anderson then bring in Chema in as back up alongsude Mainoo which I think covers almost every base needed in midfield whilst it also has potential to improve, perfect age wise for Ineos want too.
I don’t think the Pogba sample is good considering how that played out and the fact it was not under INEOS and a known penny pincher

I think anyone hoping for garner at this stage is barking up the wrong tree