Would swap around Anderson and Tonali
Centre Midfielder Transfer Links
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I don’t understand why anyone would contemplate keeping Ugarte if there’s a chance to get rid. He’s had 2 seasons and he’s been absolutely dire. He’s got no part to play for us. I’m not one of those that usually calls for us to just “stick in a youth player”, but I would ahead of Ugarte.
Saw some mention of Juventus and that would probably suit him. He’d look quicker and stronger in a less physically demanding league.
Shouldn't we be worried whenever you see Real or Bayern looking to offload players though
Casemerio has been fine for the last 3 years.
Sounds like it's only Camavinga looking to leave, wish we could get him on loan like @Orange Tree suggested but no chance Real would be open to it
Absolutely not. This gets said so many times but just isn’t true. Real sold Robben and Sneijder, who both went on to play integral parts in treble winning seasons for their respective clubs. Lewa left Bayern for Barca and his been great for them.
This myth that these other big clubs always sell players who are past it needs to die.
OK I should have caveated it by saying players who have had recent injury problems a la De Ligt and Camavinga
Robben and Sneijder was nearly 20 years ago, I don't know how much longer we can use them as examples.
Lewa forced his way out, Bayern didn't even want to sell.
The issue with Camavinga is clear, he's injury prone, if Madrid aren't playing him and were willing to sell it's most likely because of his injuries and how it's affecting his performance levels - which they'd be more aware of than we would be as outsiders.
AI has him missing 20-22% of games since joining Madrid which isn't the absolute worst, but note the last couple of seasons has been worse than the first two. We also seem to have a habit of making players injury problems even worse when they join us (see Mount, Varane, De Ligt, Martinez etc.)
Having said that for a reasonable fee that factors in injury risk, as part of a summer where 3 CMs are signed total, a punt might not be the worst idea. But if Madrid can't turn him into a fit and top class midfielder I very much doubt we will with our track record.
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How about Hakimi? To a lesser extent, Theo Hernandez. Odegaard too has gone on to have a great career at Arsenal, as did Ozil. Kovacic as well. There are a ton of examples.
I think Camavinga as the third midfielder for the right price would be a great signing. When fit, he’s a terrific player and can play in multiple positions.
Absolutely a fan of bugging other high profile teams about bringing in their great players on loan. One year loan for Camavinga with a 35M buy OPTION only.
If we blow most of our budget on 2 starting quality CM's and Ugarte leaves, I can see the team going with Licha as Ugarte's replacement, assuming De Ligt is healthy and maybe a cheaper incoming CB to compete for #3/4 CB minutes. Plus there is the option to use Shaw as CB and bring in a younger LB. I'd rather bring in 2 CM's in the 80-100m market than 1 CM of that bracket plus 2CM's in the 30-60m bracket. Yeah, would be nice to get good scout work but we don't have that yet unless there are other CM's we haven't heard about yet.
What would you consider a reasonable fee?
I think there will be 2 minimum, 3 depends on outgoings. But, any MF coming in has to factor in Mainoo because there is a big chance that they will partner him when starting matches. Imagine what Mainoo and his family will react if we buy 2 big name MF and they will have to start games instead of him.
So i think the MF singning will be around like this
- main one (65-80mil)
- 2nd target (45-60mil)
-3rd possibe with outgoing (30-40mil)
So i think the MF singning will be around like this
- main one (65-80mil)
- 2nd target (45-60mil)
-3rd possibe with outgoing (30-40mil)
The only way I could see Licha as his replacement would be if he played in that role before the end of the season. Personally I feel that seems pretty unlikely as think we would have seen that experiment more already.
Not necessarily. Cunha signed a new contract with Wolves in Feb 2025 and then signed for us four months later.
A new contract usually gives a player a pay bump and protects a club’s valuation, but that doesn’t suddenly mean a sale is off the table. It just prevents a cheaper sale. There could still be a a deal to be had there if we decide to go for him.
So maybe something like
Main - Tonali
2nd target - Fernandes/Gomes
3rd possible - Camavinga (only IF that £35m fee was genuinely true)
Yea never seems to be something we pursue, only offer. Would be a good option even if we did the whole obligation to buy thing, and a £5m buyout
Dont really know who we might go for
Main - Anderson, Tonali,
2nd - Baleba, Fernandes, Gomes, Camavinga (maybe need a loan to buy option)
3rd - Maybe someone on the continents
Cunha wasn't out of contract though.
If Garner had interest from clubs that were prepared to pay him more he would have left on a free in the summer.
I saw Jude Bellingham come on and do pretty alright.
For me players at Real Madrid can just look bad. Many even look down on Tchouameni too because he is not seen as Kroos or Modric level. The high standards fans expect is incredible, not saying thats a bad thing either..
Eduardo Camavinga is injury prone sure, but he was also shunted out at left back too a lot and Real Madrid keep changing the first team squad every week doesn't help. For very good price i'd be interested in them all.
I don't see Valverde ever happening(or Madrid wanting to sell) so not even going to mention him.
Arda Guler for me is a 10 right now, but could later move to a 8, I think thats where he likes being.
For me players at Real Madrid can just look bad. Many even look down on Tchouameni too because he is not seen as Kroos or Modric level. The high standards fans expect is incredible, not saying thats a bad thing either..
Eduardo Camavinga is injury prone sure, but he was also shunted out at left back too a lot and Real Madrid keep changing the first team squad every week doesn't help. For very good price i'd be interested in them all.
I don't see Valverde ever happening(or Madrid wanting to sell) so not even going to mention him.
Arda Guler for me is a 10 right now, but could later move to a 8, I think thats where he likes being.
Neither was Garner, Everton had a one year option which they were obviously going to use.
If Ugarte's going then we need to look at 3 CMs I would have thought.
- Casemiro's replacement
- Ugarte's replacement
- An additional squad option
Ermm, the new contract which Cunha signed contained a release clause at a reasonable fee... which is what United then used to purchase him.
Unless it has been hidden from the press, Garner's contract does not seem to have a release clause.
Not comparable situations at all. Cunha's contract actually made it simpler for United to purchase him. Garner's contract extension, assuming it does not have a release clause, will have certainly made it more difficult.
Genuinely think it will be Joao Gomes and Mateus Fernandes as the main two with us maybe picking up a younger cheaper option, don't see us splashing out on a Tonali as well as one of these two.
I just don’t see a world where we don’t spend a simile amount on the midfield as we did on the forward line last summer so hypothetically £100 million on Anderson, £70 million on Wharton and £34 million on Joao Gomes with his relegation release clause which then alongsude Mainoo, Kone and the Fletcher twins would set us up strong for potentially a decade.
We also have fullback, potentially LW and maybe even back up striker with European football next season, I agree Midfield has to be the biggest spend but don't see us getting Anderson anyway, I'd potentially look at the cost of Wharton, Joao Gomes and Mateus Fernandes though as that gives us three very different type of midfielders.
This summer will tell a lot about the club's future, ambition and where it's headed(at least short term). UCL money will most likely be available. Midfield is the area that's been a problem(probably biggest one at the club) even while Fergie was still here.
I hope you're right and the club shows proper ambition.
But it still doesn’t rule out a transfer, which was my only point. All it does is make it more expensive for us if we go after him, but given the prices being thrown around for Anderson, Tonali, Baleba and Wharton etc, plus the competition from other clubs, it may still be a more feasible option. It’s silly to assume it’s now definitely off the table.
As a reminder, the vast majority of transfer happen with players who are under contract who do not have a release clause. This is no different in that regard.
Plenty of players have signed new contracts and then still ended up moving.
We definite need to sign min 2 midfielders this summer as best options all likely to be on the move.. Anderson, Wharton and Matheus Fernandes - all 3 will be perfect and fix issue for many years. But this will cost a fortune and most likely Anderson heading to City so Tonali, Baleba, Sangare could be options.
We are going to move to a midfield 3 soon .. I cant see any no.10 to replace to Bruno in world football in a season or 2 when he is 33. So natural progression will be midfield 3 initially with Bruno but we need to build enough quality and numbers to win us games when he is not available. I dont think Fletcher twins will be near desired level, same for Kone (he has more potential) to being regular squad players within 1-2yrs.
This will also bring out best of Mainoo who I think long term will be better suited to one of 3 CMs positions.
We are going to move to a midfield 3 soon .. I cant see any no.10 to replace to Bruno in world football in a season or 2 when he is 33. So natural progression will be midfield 3 initially with Bruno but we need to build enough quality and numbers to win us games when he is not available. I dont think Fletcher twins will be near desired level, same for Kone (he has more potential) to being regular squad players within 1-2yrs.
This will also bring out best of Mainoo who I think long term will be better suited to one of 3 CMs positions.
I think a lot of others have said the same as me in that Dorgu will cover either Shaw as a left back or Cunha as the left sided attacker, I personally think Dorgu would be better further forward as he’s a completely different type of left sided forward to Cunha is.
If we brought in 3 midfielders and a left back as our summer business I’d be happy as Sesko and Mbeumo can compete for the striker role with Chido coming through then Amad and Mbeumo can compete for the role on the right along with Lacey, Cunha would then compete with Dorgu on the left.
You’re right as if we went with Fernandes from West Ham, Gomes from Wolves and a cheap punt youngster to replace Ugarte then it shows Ineos aren’t serious as with Arsenal simply being more consistent instead of actually better, City very much in decline and lots behind the scenes going on and Liverpool struggling there’s a chance for us to really push on IF we’re ambitious this summer.
We NEED a midfield overhaul exactly like our forward overhaul last summer so a big money midfield leader (Anderson), a complimentary partner (Wharton) and a youngster with potential (Gomes) to come in and compete with Mainoo to give us strength in depth and genuine quality and then a left back to compete with Shaw (Hall) which leaves us with a balanced squad throughout.
Gomes is older than both Anderson and Wharton if were talking about the same Gomes, in terms of getting those three and Lewis Hall you'll be looking at around 300m surely. 100m Anderson, 70/80m for Wharton, 30/40m Gomes and around £70m for Hall.
I didn’t realise Gomes was 25 until just now but that fits with Ineos model of 25 and under and he has a relegation release clause of around £30 million so as 3rd/4th choice he’s a good buy.
In regards to the others you have to remember we’ll be moving Onana, Bayindir, Malacia, Casemiro, Sancho, Rashford, Zirkzee and Hojlund all on which is around £100 million a year in wages and probably around £125 million in transfer fees.
Even if Anderson is £100 million, Wharton £70 million, Gomes £30 million and Hall £70 million around 40% of that is recouped in transfer fees and we'd be far better off wages wise as well as those four at most would be half of the wages paid out for with the ones leaving.
If West Ham go down I would be all over Fernandes.
I think he is a far better player than Wharton, also offers physicality and is combative.
If they stay up would depend on the price.
Yeah not sure I can say exactly why but I do favour Fernandes over Wharton too, I like Gomes and feel he would give us a little bit of the defence solidity we get from Casemiro but I really am on the fence with both Wharton and Anderson, can't really give you an explanation other than gut feeling that both these guys won't work out for some reason.
We’ve taken a huge dent in our revenue this year with a record low number of games played, plus we still owe a lot on previous transfers. I hope we can spend that much but I’m less convinced than I was.
I think Anderson will be a great signing, just his price in modern football is ridiculous.
I think Wharton is good but we would need to surround him with physicality which is partnering with Mainoo we do not have.
I had an initial look for potentially good DM replacements in the following link, but TLDR there weren't many:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/centre-midfielder-transfer-links.488776/post-33997872
I thought I'd have another go at doing a similar thing, but tweaking slightly to focus a bit more on stylistically similar players to Casemiro. I used his current season's data as a reference as it's still excellent and well beyond most other midfielders out there.
Mainly, I filtered out players based on a number of Casemiro's key stand-out, differentiating attributes; primarily: high defensive work-rate, strong progressive passing, and not being bad in the air. If restricted to more additional data-points eg only exceptional in the air, plus scoring goals, there'd be basically no one left.
I decided to add Sofascore's season player ratings for wider context, because some of the extra bits-and-pieces Casemiro does relative to other stylistically similar central midfielders (eg goals, headers etc.) will still get captured there to some degree without narrowing the field too arbitrarily. Looking at Sofascore's ratings relative to other data sources and my own observations, they seem fairly solid for assessing player performance.
Younger Prospects from Smaller (non-Big 5) Leagues (age, club, Sofascore Season rating):
Vanja Dragojevic (20, Partizan Belgrade 7.02); Mathias Siltanen (18, Djugardens, 7.15); Soumaila Diabate (21, RB Salzburg, 6.79); Aleksandr Stankovic (20, Club Bruges/Inter Milan, 7.32); Kamiel Van De Perre (21, Union St Gilloise, 6.91); Justin Janssen (19, Nordsjaelland, 6.91); Cauan Barros (21, Vasco De Gama, 7.07); Shea Charles (22, Southampton, 6.93); Stije Resink (22, Groningen, 7.23); Youri Regeer (22, Ajax, 7.09)
It seems a lot of people have suddenly been talking about Shea Charles lately, following his good displays vs Italy and Arsenal. United rumoured to be scouting him now as well.
I thought it's worth noting that back at the start of February, he was one of the few results who came up in the data search I did for younger, Casemiro-esque CM prospects from outside the top 5 leagues.
Sorry. Did not see the post you quoted.
I don't have the same data source for the Championship as the top 5 leagues, but I also do have the below for a more detailed breakdown.
His passing seems very good. You can also compare it to the senior top 5 leagues players' chart I made from the same data source as well if you go back to my earlier post. His 6.5 progressive passes per 90 is similar to Xhaka and Rice in the PL, though not as high as e.g. Anderson's c.8.5 this season.
He seems a strong all-rounder. Good pace, and also very good in the air for his age.
As I pointed out when doing my initial research, and something which should be clear to those who scour the leagues - the combination in CMs of clearly above average defensive work and physicality, and also clearly above average progressive passing ability (a la Casemiro), is an uncommon one right now. Hence why there are so few results.
You keep missing the point though.
If Garner wanted to move then he wouldn't have signed a new contract. If he'd only taken up the one year extension, he'd have a lot more leverage to move this summer as Everton would either have to sell now or let him leave on a free in 2027.
He's probably really settled at Everton and enjoying his football.
As somebody else pointed out, unless he's got a release clause then it makes him way more expensive to buy now.