Centre Midfielder Transfer Links

I don't have the same data source for the Championship as the top 5 leagues, but I also do have the below for a more detailed breakdown.

His passing seems very good. You can also compare it to the senior top 5 leagues players' chart I made from the same data source as well if you go back to my earlier post. His 6.5 progressive passes per 90 is similar to Xhaka and Rice in the PL, though not as high as e.g. Anderson's c.8.5 this season.

He seems a strong all-rounder. Good pace, and also very good in the air for his age.

As I pointed out when doing my initial research, and something which should be clear to those who scour the leagues - the combination in CMs of clearly above average defensive work and physicality, and also clearly above average progressive passing ability (a la Casemiro), is an uncommon one right now. Hence why there are so few results.

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Sounds good. Did say last summer that he seemed like a bit of an obvious move.
Now even more so if he had a good season. That being said, if Shea Charles is one, I do hope we get two!
 
Sounds good. Did say last summer that he seemed like a bit of an obvious move.
Now even more so if he had a good season. That being said, if Shea Charles is one, I do hope we get two!

So you did. Good job.

Charles seems to be one of the possible ones for the category of less expensive, third signing who is more of a prospect.

I think Ugarte should and likely will be moved on, in which case I'd be shocked if United didn't make 3 midfield signings in the summer.
 
So you did. Good job.

Charles seems to be one of the possible ones for the category of less expensive, third signing who is more of a prospect.

I think Ugarte should and likely will be moved on, in which case I'd be shocked if United didn't make 3 midfield signings in the summer.

Yes, ment to write «two more». Shea Charles should be the third if he is signed.
 
You keep missing the point though.

If Garner wanted to move then he wouldn't have signed a new contract. If he'd only taken up the one year extension, he'd have a lot more leverage to move this summer as Everton would either have to sell now or let him leave on a free in 2027.

He's probably really settled at Everton and enjoying his football.

As somebody else pointed out, unless he's got a release clause then it makes him way more expensive to buy now.

That was me that pointed out it made him more expensive! Jeez.

Sure, he’s settled at Everton and obviously happy staying there and signing a new contract for more money. That doesn’t mean we wouldn’t be able to turn his head if we decide to put him at the centre of our midfield rebuild. A new contract doesn’t make us signing him impossible, it just makes it harder. That’s literally my only point.
 
That doesn’t mean we wouldn’t be able to turn his head if we decide to put him at the centre of our midfield rebuild.

If United wanted to put him at the centre of their midfield rebuild, and the prospect would turn his head, then one would have thought they would have done so before he signed his contract.

If United put him at the centre of their midfield rebuild, and his head was subsequently turned, he wouldn't have signed the contract to feasibly price himself out of the move. Unless he only signed a contract with a release clause a la Cunha. But he didn't do that.

That none of the above happened, I suspect United have never intended to put him at the centre of their midfield rebuild.
 
If United wanted to put him at the centre of their midfield rebuild, and the prospect would turn his head, then one would have thought they would have done so before he signed his contract.

If United put him at the centre of their midfield rebuild, and his head was subsequently turned, he wouldn't have signed the contract to feasibly price himself out of the move. Unless he only signed a contract with a release clause a la Cunha. But he didn't do that.

That none of the above happened, I suspect United have never intended to put him at the centre of their midfield rebuild.

Try reading what I wrote in my previous posts.
But it still doesn’t rule out a transfer, which was my only point. All it does is make it more expensive for us if we go after him, but given the prices being thrown around for Anderson, Tonali, Baleba and Wharton etc, plus the competition from other clubs, it may still be a more feasible option. It’s silly to assume it’s now definitely off the table.

As a reminder, the vast majority of transfer happen with players who are under contract who do not have a release clause. This is no different in that regard.

Plenty of players have signed new contracts and then still ended up moving.

I do not think Garner is our number one target, and it was evident we were going to wait until this summer to rebuild our midfield. But there’s a distinct possibility that we may lose out on the likes of Elliot or Tonali, either to other clubs ir due to being priced out, in which case we may pivot to other options. And garner is one of those other options. And him having signed a contract does categorically rule out a move.
 
I think a lot of others have said the same as me in that Dorgu will cover either Shaw as a left back or Cunha as the left sided attacker, I personally think Dorgu would be better further forward as he’s a completely different type of left sided forward to Cunha is.

If we brought in 3 midfielders and a left back as our summer business I’d be happy as Sesko and Mbeumo can compete for the striker role with Chido coming through then Amad and Mbeumo can compete for the role on the right along with Lacey, Cunha would then compete with Dorgu on the left.


You’re right as if we went with Fernandes from West Ham, Gomes from Wolves and a cheap punt youngster to replace Ugarte then it shows Ineos aren’t serious as with Arsenal simply being more consistent instead of actually better, City very much in decline and lots behind the scenes going on and Liverpool struggling there’s a chance for us to really push on IF we’re ambitious this summer.

We NEED a midfield overhaul exactly like our forward overhaul last summer so a big money midfield leader (Anderson), a complimentary partner (Wharton) and a youngster with potential (Gomes) to come in and compete with Mainoo to give us strength in depth and genuine quality and then a left back to compete with Shaw (Hall) which leaves us with a balanced squad throughout.
How is Joao Gomes a promising youngster? He's already 25 so unlikely to get much better, his passing stats are not very good, he's undersized, and Wolves team defense has been atrocious.

He seems similar to Ugarte to me, in that he's very very obviously a poor use of resources from the get go. Selling Ugarte to buy him seems quite ironic. We should be getting a guy like that for peanuts (or just use the academy), not £30M and £100k a week.
 
How is Joao Gomes a promising youngster? He's already 25 so unlikely to get much better, his passing stats are not very good, he's undersized, and Wolves team defense has been atrocious.

He seems similar to Ugarte to me, in that he's very very obviously a poor use of resources from the get go. Selling Ugarte to buy him seems quite ironic. We should be getting a guy like that for peanuts (or just use the academy), not £30M and £100k a week.
If hes available for buttons as they get relegated i would happily take him. 4 years Prem experience, 10 caps for Brazil.

If its a hefty fee and wage then we are looking in the wrong place
 
I do not think Garner is our number one target, and it was evident we were going to wait until this summer to rebuild our midfield. But there’s a distinct possibility that we may lose out on the likes of Elliot or Tonali, either to other clubs ir due to being priced out, in which case we may pivot to other options. And garner is one of those other options. And him having signed a contract does categorically rule out a move.

United will have known a few months ago, before Garner signed his contract, that the likes of Anderson and Tonali will be expensive - in which case if they had thought about pivoting to Garner instead they would have been in his ear about delaying him signing his contract until after the summer window has opened in order to keep his price down.

As it is, with the English tax, his new contract, and Everton less needing to sell, he'd probably now be more expensive than Tonali.
 
How is Joao Gomes a promising youngster? He's already 25 so unlikely to get much better, his passing stats are not very good, he's undersized, and Wolves team defense has been atrocious.

He seems similar to Ugarte to me, in that he's very very obviously a poor use of resources from the get go. Selling Ugarte to buy him seems quite ironic. We should be getting a guy like that for peanuts (or just use the academy), not £30M and £100k a week.
I thought I was going mad or something. I see nothing special about Joao Gomes, yet many seem to talk him up as some sort of Casemiro level player.
He seems to me a typical decent player for a club like Aston Villa, Everton, Newcastle.
Would be terrible squad building going for a player like him.
 
I thought I was going mad or something. I see nothing special about Joao Gomes, yet many seem to talk him up as some sort of Casemiro level player.
He seems to me a typical decent player for a club like Aston Villa, Everton, Newcastle.
Would be terrible squad building going for a player like him.
I think it's more the limited options available, as well as the fact that we probably need 3 midfielders this summer as well as full back options and possibly another striker.

Joao Gomes isn't at Casemiro's level and probably never will be close but he's a good player available for a decent fee, if we could get him, Tonali and another younger option I would be happy as come this summer we will potentially have Mainoo plus a bunch of kids like Fletcher, Collyer and Kone who aren't ready.
 
United will have known a few months ago, before Garner signed his contract, that the likes of Anderson and Tonali will be expensive - in which case if they had thought about pivoting to Garner instead they would have been in his ear about delaying him signing his contract until after the summer window has opened in order to keep his price down.

As it is, with the English tax, his new contract, and Everton less needing to sell, he'd probably now be more expensive than Tonali.

United wouldn’t have known a few months ago whether they will be successful this summer in acquiring their main targets. That’s silly. It also seems to give far more credit than deserved with regards to the medium term planning of an organization who previously thought Ugarte was the right option at CM.

Knowing what Newcastle are like to deal with, I doubt that personally.

Again though, you see to be missing the point. I am not arguing it’s likely. I have simply said a new contract doesn’t rule out a transfer. Arguing that an unknown is a certainty is naive - far more unexpected things have happened when it comes to transfers. Back in February posters here were stating we definitely weren’t getting Cunha after he signed his contract…
 
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United wouldn’t have known a few months ago whether they will be successful this summer in acquiring their main targets. That’s silly. It also seems to give far more credit than deserved with regards to the medium term planning of an organization who previously thought Ugarte was the right option at CM.

Ugarte was an early, fairly panicked signing brought in just as Ineos had came through the door in their first transfer window, after having little time to re-organise and evaluate things.

United's new data department under Michael Sansoni has been revamped since November 2025 - so well ahead of both the January window and Garner signing his new contract.

https://thepeoplesperson.com/2025/1...ed-manchester-uniteds-data-department-301037/

United did successfully manage to basically tap-up both Cunha and Mbeumo well in advance of last summer's transfer window opening. If Garner had appeared on their radar as a serious option following their data revamp, again there's no reason to think they wouldn't have tried the same. It should have been even easier to do so with him than even for Mbeumo and Cunha given United's obvious recent relationship with the player and his agent.

Back in February posters here were stating we definitely weren’t getting Cunha after he signed his contract…

Only if they didn't know that his contract, unlike Garner's, had a reasonable release clause. It's such a wildly different situation I don't know why you keep shooting yourself in the foot by mentioning it.
 
Ugarte was an early, fairly panicked signing brought in just as Ineos had came through the door in their first transfer window, after having little time to re-organise and evaluate things.

United's new data department under Michael Sansoni has been revamped since November 2025 - so well ahead of both the January window and Garner signing his new contract.

https://thepeoplesperson.com/2025/1...ed-manchester-uniteds-data-department-301037/

United did successfully manage to basically tap-up both Cunha and Mbeumo well in advance of last summer's transfer window opening. If Garner had appeared on their radar as a serious option following their data revamp, again there's no reason to think they wouldn't have tried the same. It should have been even easier to do so with him than even for Mbeumo and Cunha given United's obvious recent relationship with the player and his agent.



Only if they didn't know that his contract, unlike Garner's, had a reasonable release clause. It's such a wildly different situation I don't know why you keep shooting yourself in the foot by mentioning it.

Again, you’re ignoring my point because you seem so desperate to argue about something, anything. I’m specifically talking about the possibility Utd pivot to back up options if they miss out on other targets.
 
In recovery running and that's about it. Either wildly misreported, or the analysts are worse than randoms on the internet. On the ball and even in anticipation/cutting off lines, they're very different players.
Yep, to the point if you could combine them, you’d get one hell of a player.
 
Being linked with Stiller again today, which is very exciting if the reports are credible. Him and Anderson/Baleba would be an incredible piece of business.
 
Any one else not really excited about any of the signings?

Obviously we need midfielders and we're going to get some which I'm happy with, but I see a host of players linked and everyone's price tag is 65-100 Million and I'm looking at the players and just thinking for that kind of money I want prime Roy Keane someone who is quite clearly head and shoulders above the rest. I look at Tonali, Anderson and Wharton, and I'm just like "meh either of those will do, we need someone in midfield".
 
Being linked with Stiller again today, which is very exciting if the reports are credible. Him and Anderson/Baleba would be an incredible piece of business.
Can you play him and Mainoo in the same pairing in the PL and not be overrun ?
 
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Someone No1 seems to be mentioning is João Palinha. I'd love it if we went and signed 3 midfielders this summer to complete the squad with Mainoo.

Palinha
Baleba
Guimaraes
Mainoo

You have two players who can play CDM well, and 3 who can play CM depending on what was required each game.

With us being in the Champions League we should have 4 midfielders of this calibre.

Sell Ugarte, release Casemiro and let Sekou Kone be the 5th and 6th midfielder option with Fletcher.
 
I'm fairly happy with this as an overarching summary of midfielders' Offensive vs Defensive output. It seems a fairly decent amalgamation of a number of different key metrics, and shows a fairly comprehensive view of players. Top 5 leagues for now.

I have been looking into a very large range of metrics and sources, and these seem near enough the most representative to me based on my observations - that is, the closest I could find without having access to the full range of data and tools professionals have.

I opted for 'Offensive Action VAEP' because I didn't have access to an xThreat value which includes goals (and VAEP gives slightly more weight to goals than xThreat anyway, which makes some sense to me). Conversely, I had some unanswered questions on how defensive VAEP works, while xThreat Prevented felt more intuitive.

Definitions (some can TLDR skip this):

- 'Offensive Action VAEP (Valuing Actions by Estimating Probabilities')' - "VAEP from offensive actions (passes, crosses, take-ons, shots, dribbles) - net impact on the team's probability of scoring from actions that progress or finish attacks. Trained with xG-based labels (socceraction framework).

Pretty self-explanatory, but here's a more detailed description:
"VAEP (Valuing Actions by Estimating Probabilities) is a framework for valuing player actions in soccer. It assigns a value to each on-the-ball action in event stream data based on its impact on the game outcome while accounting for the context in which the action happened. Intuitively, an action value reflects the action’s expected influence on the scoreline. That is, an action valued at +0.05 is expected to contribute 0.05 goals in favor of the team performing the action, whereas an action valued at -0.05 is expected to yield 0.05 goals for their opponent."

Explore it more here:
https://dtai.cs.kuleuven.be/sports/vaep/

- 'xThreat Prevented (Padj)' measures threat eliminated by defensive actions (tackles, interceptions, clearances, recoveries, shot blocks). Uses an inverted xThreat grid. If possession is recovered, credits the threat removed plus transition value; if not, credits how far the opponent was pushed back. (Padj: adjustment for team possession).

To help give a bit more of an explanation for this: defensive actions in more dangerous situations, i.e. nearer one's goal, get more weight applied to them, so for instance a shot blocked from the 6-yard box is seen as more valuable than one from 25 yards out. On its own, a tackle on the half-way line is worth less than one on the edge of your own box, but if that tackle is in an advantageous situation for a counter-attack it gains additional points for transition value. I like this measure overall, as unlike say just PAdj tackles+interceptions, this seems to give a good weight to defending the penalty box; this seems valuable type of information for United given the loss of Casemiro who is excellent in these areas.

--------------------------

For those struggling to find E. Anderson, he's at 0.26 on the X-Axis (left on Manzambi). For those struggling to find S. Tonali, he's at 0.2 on the X-Axis (just to the right of Stach).


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Further to my above chart in the quoted post, I thought it would be interesting to have a check of what the same data looked like for last season and see how some of it had changed.

One of the biggest things that jumps out is how good Baleba looks on last season's data - it's obvious why the club went for him based on this; at 21 and already above average on both defensive and offensive output. Near enough the same as Declan Rice was last season. It is something that does make me wonder if a punt on him at a cheaper price this summer can't be entirely ruled out, in case he rediscovers his form.

One of the other key things to note is where Anton Stach, Andrey Santos, Zubimendi, and Reijnders were when playing abroad - all in really strong positions - and how much of a dent moving to the PL made in their output (Santos would have been hidden behind Ampadu on this season's chart, Zubimendi under Camavinga this season, Reijnders just below Tonali).

All have still been doing well in some regards this season, but across the four they have on average lost exactly 25% of their offensive output, and exactly 25% of their defensive output. Amusingly consistent there.

- Stach lost 24% of his offensive output, and 49% of defensive output moving from Bundesliga.
- Andrey Santos lost 29% of his offensive output and 22% of his defensive output moving from Ligue 1
- Zubimendi had a 6% fall in his (low) offensive output, and a 23% drop from his more important defensive output from La Liga.
- Reijnders had a 33% drop in his key offensive output, albeit a 20% uplift in his (low) defensive output from Serie A.

It should be a warning to those looking at the e.g. good but not extraordinary Ligue 1 performance data of the likes of Sangare and Camara, when they're not that young either. Only clear statistical outliers from abroad should really be considered for United, and/or players who may still see large uplift from their development with age.

Joao Gomes' stats are still poor, even though Wolves did much better last season. As with this season, he was also out-performed by his team-mate Andre. Funnily enough, Ugarte last season would be hidden under Andre.

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Another terrible link.
Always thought Paul Hirst was meant to be very credible ? Not quite Ornstein, Whitwell or Stone but the next tier ? That said I could only see that if Dorgu is going to be a left back and Rogers was to alternate with Cunha.
 
Always thought Paul Hirst was meant to be very credible ? Not quite Ornstein, Whitwell or Stone but the next tier ? That said I could only see that if Dorgu is going to be a left back and Rogers was to alternate with Cunha.
I mean the level of player. £80m... Madrid paid a little more for Bellingham. Whatever you think of him, that's a fair bar for the kind of outlay.
 
Always thought Paul Hirst was meant to be very credible ? Not quite Ornstein, Whitwell or Stone but the next tier ? That said I could only see that if Dorgu is going to be a left back and Rogers was to alternate with Cunha.
Hes very similar to Cunha, we might be better aiming for someone who plays wider and beats on the outside but I do think hes mega talented
 
Further to my above chart in the quoted post, I thought it would be interesting to have a check of what the same data looked like for last season and see how some of it had changed.

One of the biggest things that jumps out is how good Baleba looks on last season's data - it's obvious why the club went for him based on this; at 21 and already above average on both defensive and offensive output. Near enough the same as Declan Rice was last season. It is something that does make me wonder if a punt on him at a cheaper price this summer can't be entirely ruled out, in case he rediscovers his form.

One of the other key things to note is where Anton Stach, Andrey Santos, Zubimendi, and Reijnders were when playing abroad - all in really strong positions - and how much of a dent moving to the PL made in their output (Santos would have been hidden behind Ampadu on this season's chart, Zubimendi under Camavinga this season, Reijnders just below Tonali).

All have still been doing well in some regards this season, but across the four they have on average lost exactly 25% of their offensive output, and exactly 25% of their defensive output. Amusingly consistent there.

- Stach lost 24% of his offensive output, and 49% of defensive output moving from Bundesliga.
- Andrey Santos lost 29% of his offensive output and 22% of his defensive output moving from Ligue 1
- Zubimendi had a 6% fall in his (low) offensive output, and a 23% drop from his more important defensive output from La Liga.
- Reijnders had a 33% drop in his key offensive output, albeit a 20% uplift in his (low) defensive output from Serie A.

It should be a warning to those looking at the e.g. good but not extraordinary Ligue 1 performance data of the likes of Sangare and Camara, when they're not that young either. Only clear statistical outliers from abroad should really be considered for United, and/or players who may still see large uplift from their development with age.

Joao Gomes' stats are still poor, even though Wolves did much better last season. As with this season, he was also out-performed by his team-mate Andre. Funnily enough, Ugarte last season would be hidden under Andre.

B0pP3Gt.png

Super interesting the fall in output when moving to the PL. It highlights how physical the EPL has become.

I agree that we have to go for statistical outliers when thinking about players coming from abroad. Either they are young and developing, so should improve their metrics over time or they are in the excellent category that even with the drop in output, will be good to excellent players in the EPL.

Yan Diomande was a statistical outlier at Leganes even with his limited minutes that warranted a closer look. We should start identifying these outliers early and see if they can make the move across.
 
Someone No1 seems to be mentioning is João Palinha. I'd love it if we went and signed 3 midfielders this summer to complete the squad with Mainoo.

Palinha
Baleba
Guimaraes
Mainoo

You have two players who can play CDM well, and 3 who can play CM depending on what was required each game.

With us being in the Champions League we should have 4 midfielders of this calibre.

Sell Ugarte, release Casemiro and let Sekou Kone be the 5th and 6th midfielder option with Fletcher.
Paulinha can't pass the ball well and is about to turn 31. He was a really bad signing for Spurs who analytics guys heavily warned against, has been a big part of their midfield progression problems, and would solve very little for us.

I will be fearful if Wilcox and co think that's someone we should target.
 
I’d like to see us go for Archie Gray (If Spurs are relegated 50M) and Baleba ($50M) for the defensive role and Wharton (70M) for creative side. Along with Mainoo that would give us balance upon the 4.
 
Most useless tweet ever


Maybe links to what Mitten said a while back, can hardly publish names if he doesn't know who they are. There is also the matter of wanting to keep it all under wraps so other clubs don't know our targets