Champions League Final 2019 | Spurs v Liverpool (1st June)

Klopper76

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I think anyone reading this will say the same about Liverpool fans. You must have noticed the massive sea of opposition to you winning it arising to unite the country?
And that's over a billionaire oil team who have "arguably" stolen their way to the top!

The 3rd biggest team in London winning a one off cup final won't register on anyone but the most bitter Arsenal fan's mind!
They won't do it anyway, even with Klopp having the worst final record of any manager ever.

It's Tottenham!
I don't think Chelsea fans want Spurs to win a CL trophy. They're still the only London club to win one currently.
 

Sandikan

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I don't think Chelsea fans want Spurs to win a CL trophy. They're still the only London club to win one currently.
It's a priority system.
Because of Glaston, no one would want Spurs to win anything.
But it's Liverpool! So it changes things.
 

Megadrive Man

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Its pretty pointless talking about next season yet. Liverpool significantly improved their team in 2018, whereas City didn't.

This summer I think it will be the other way round. I don't expect any major signings at Liverpool whereas I can see City making some big name signings.
 

AshRK

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Still think Liverpool will be starting this as favorites and may win it. However, spurs are a dangerous side and they have nothing to lose. Also, the lady luck in CL has been shining for spurs so it might be very likely this is their year.
 

duffer

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I don't think Chelsea fans want Spurs to win a CL trophy. They're still the only London club to win one currently.
I'm a red for Saturday, 100% la!
 

Klopper76

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I'm a red for Saturday, 100% la!
You'll know you've become one of us when you see Spurs get a throw in and start a petition to demand the match is replayed.
 

duffer

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You'll know you've become one of us when you see Spurs get a throw in and start a petition to demand the match is replayed.
I'm already starting to feel all poetic.


For a few hours in June
One who was blue since the womb
Will put aside the lion in favour of the liver bird
He'll go against the herd
And support the men who wear red
Because Spurs being champions would make him wish he was dead.
 

redman5

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Klopp signing a CD. "You can sign for Liverpool but VVD and Gomez are my first choice"
Klopp signing a full back. "You can come, but TAA and Robertson are my first choice"
Klopp signing a forward. " You will play only when I rest Mane, Frimino and Salah"
Klopp signing a CM "i have 6 already, so hopefully I can give you a game in the FA cup"
Not easy signing squad players!
Hang on a minute. We've got someone on here claiming that the 'underlying stats' say that we effectively over-achieved this season. Then you've copious amounts of people claiming that luck, dodgy reffing, & a lack of VAR, was the sole reason we took a rampant Man City side all the way. Now you're actually saying that there's no need for us to bring in quality players because we don't need them. Perhaps you could elucidate & bring some clarity to the conflicting opinions that are swamping the Liverpool threads.
 

CognitiveNeuro

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Something I keep reading lately. What a massive bs. Nothing has changed this season, I mean again you keep hearing one excuse after another on why Liverpool did not win, why City's season was an anomaly, what if one of those 14 wins on the trot was a draw, what if, what if blah blah.

What makes you think Liverpool's season was not an anomaly as well? Seems to me the general consensous among all my Liverpool friends and those on social media is that next year you lot are going to win it because somehow City are not going to repeat this 'abnormal' season, but you lot are. Ha ha, give me a break then.

If you think Liverpool's going to put the same numbers next season, or even improve on this season, then you lot must be delusional and it hurts to say it as I hate Spurs with a fecking passion, but Liverpool missing on yet another trophy in Madrid would be glorious. You lot say it is the journey that matters, ha fecking ha, in five years time they will all remember City winning this campaign not your 90 something points.
I agree with you.
The kind of things Liverpool pulled off this season were ridiculous. I highly doubt you're going to see things like Origi's late winner, clangers like Lloris, Rico and the Palace keeper, multiple Mane offside goals, penalty calls not being given in the last minute etc.

In fact just one of those keeper clangers were so incredibly rare to happen and you had so many of those this season. It's just common sense they won't be anywhere near the points level next season.

I honestly feel this was the season to win it and it's extremely unlikely they will compete with City again next season. I feel it will be close between Liverpool and Chelsea for 2nd place (and Spurs depending on who they get for squad depth). City will run away with it but it won't be 98+ points again because the contenders will fall away early on.

I can see Liverpool doing really well in Europe again next season. Klopp has found the right balance in winning ties in Europe. He works that Anfield advantage really well.
 

Josh 76

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Hang on a minute. We've got someone on here claiming that the 'underlying stats' say that we effectively over-achieved this season. Then you've copious amounts of people claiming that luck, dodgy reffing, & a lack of VAR, was the sole reason we took a rampant Man City side all the way. Now you're actually saying that there's no need for us to bring in quality players because we don't need them. Perhaps you could elucidate & bring some clarity to the conflicting opinions that are swamping the Liverpool threads.
I'm not saying Liverpool don't need to bring anyone in, I'm saying it won't be easy bringing in 'top quality' players in for the reason I mentioned above.

We had a similar problem back in the day. Fergie tried to add a player to the best midfield in Europe. (Becks, Keane, Scholes, Giggs). We brought Veron. Didn't work. In fact it upset the team dynamics.
 

1966

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Then maybe Liverpool improves even more. The thing is, 83 point xG season is insanely good already. No PL team other than City has even broken 80 in the past 5 seasons.

City though ... they have had 85 in 16/17, 91 in 17/18 and then 90 in 18/19. They are just unbelievably good, the best domestic team the PL has ever seen and they show no signs of slowing down. I don't know if Liverpool or anyone else can reach that level, and that's not in any way an indictment of Liverpool who have clearly built a fantastic team. It's just City is ludicrous.
When you say "x point xG season", are you talking about an upscaling of each game's xG differential converted to hypothetical points and then summed across the season? Or is it a more advanced "xP" calculation?

The former makes the most sense, even though it stretches the xG model far beyond the original intent. But you would also expect a team with Aguero, Jesus, Sterling etc. to outperform their xG on a regular basis, so I don't see how it's unlikely for them to do it again. They're Man City, potentially the best team the PL has ever seen, because they heavily outperform their xG. Liverpool is no different really. They have their own claim to being one of the best teams the Prem has seen.

Expected values, like most mathematical aspects of football, are woefully misunderstood by the vast majority of people, most of whom don't understand basic statistical principles. I don't know how your expected points values are reached though so I can't necessarily critique the methodology. Unfortunately most football analytics companies keep pretty quiet about their models for xG etc. because they're obviously advanced proprietary formulae and algorithms.
 

MysticRed

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I don't think Chelsea fans want Spurs to win a CL trophy. They're still the only London club to win one currently.
Yes it’s not the impression I’ve had so far speaking to arsenal and Chelsea fans in London. They seem to putting on Liverpool shirts already.

What’s the Gaston reference that people are talking about?
 

BobbyManc

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I'd prefer Liverpool to win it. I can see the comedy in Spurs winning but it's hard to begrudge Liverpool winning it. A group of PSG & Napoli, the better side against Bayern and Barcelona. Incredible season in the league. If anyone does deserve the CL this season it is them.
 

RobinLFC

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I'd prefer Liverpool to win it. I can see the comedy in Spurs winning but it's hard to begrudge Liverpool winning it. A group of PSG & Napoli, the better side against Bayern and Barcelona. Incredible season in the league. If anyone does deserve the CL this season it is them.
Cheers man. I'm just happy it's Tottenham and not you guys, because I wouldn't have been able to enjoy the build-up at all out of fear that we'd once again lose. Now I'm pretty confident (rightly or wrongly we'll see but it's nice to go in as favourites).

Although the Caf would've probably imploded if they had 3 weeks to choose between a City quadruple and a Liverpool CL win :lol:
 

vadimivich

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I'd prefer Liverpool to win it. I can see the comedy in Spurs winning but it's hard to begrudge Liverpool winning it. A group of PSG & Napoli, the better side against Bayern and Barcelona. Incredible season in the league. If anyone does deserve the CL this season it is them.
Spurs group was Barcelona, Inter and PSV and then had Dortmund, City and Ajax in the knockouts. Not exactly an easy path to the final either.
 

MysticRed

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True. But inter and PSV are not the teams they used to be.
 

MagicKarpet

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True. But inter and PSV are not the teams they used to be.
? PSV won their league and Inter are still Inter, they had big players in their team and they splurged £80m that summer, that group was undoubtedly the group of death.

We've done it the hard way, played a Dortmund team who were killing their domestic league, knocked out City the favs and arguably the best team in Europe and Ajax who had k.o Real and Juve, this CL run has been mental.
 

harrington

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I'd prefer Liverpool to win it. [...] If anyone does deserve the CL this season it is them.
Football doesn't operate on the basis of who's most 'deserving', luckily. Things like toil, effort and dominance are never enough to guarantee the 'fair' result. The 'injustice' of knock-out tournament football is one of its most deliciously bittersweet attributes. Long live the fact that marks for 'artistic merit' play no determining part in the equation. And Come on you Spurs!
 

Stocar

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I don't like both of these teams. They play the same brand of football, that I find too physical and hyper-aggressive. Would slightly prefer Spurs to win it, as I found the whole narrative around Liverpool this year to be quite obnoxious. Anyway, I stumbled upon a stat that Liverpool are the team with least committed fouls in the league this year. I can't make sense of this. I watched most of their matches, and they were easily the most physical and aggressive of all Top 6 teams. I remember watching their matches and thinking that they get away with too much, but thought that maybe I was biased. But this stat just doesn't make sense.
 

Irwin99

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I'll be interested to see if the Spurs players can cope with the pressure, not because of the whole 'bottlers' reputation but just simply because of a lack experience in these situations. It's the biggest club competition in football and Spurs are in the final for the first time. On the other hand, if you look at their route to the final they can point to it as being like destiny almost ...they were all but buried in the group stage, won a tie against City through a last minute VAR check, scored in virtually the last kick of the game in the semi final.

If they play with the same intensity they had against Ajax in the second half of the semi final they'll give Liverpool problems. I just hope they don't get nervous if it's a tight game or if they fall behind early.
 

Halds

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I don't like both of these teams. They play the same brand of football, that I find too physical and hyper-aggressive. Would slightly prefer Spurs to win it, as I found the whole narrative around Liverpool this year to be quite obnoxious. Anyway, I stumbled upon a stat that Liverpool are the team with least committed fouls in the league this year. I can't make sense of this. I watched most of their matches, and they were easily the most physical and aggressive of all Top 6 teams. I remember watching their matches and thinking that they get away with too much, but thought that maybe I was biased. But this stat just doesn't make sense.
We committed the least fouls, had the fewest yellow cards and no straight reds.

It's not against the laws to be physical and aggressive.
 

DavidvsGoliath

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Have anyone considered the following cases?

If Tottenham win the CL they can win the European super cup and club's world cup, If Liverpool do win it they also can win the european super cup, club world cup and community shield, the CL is a big trophy and the club's world cup one is an okay one to take, while the other two are honorary trophies more than anything else but surely from a club perspective which the last trophy won was a League cup they would bite your hand for it.

Jokes on us really, we ve been mocking them both hard, but this year is turning out to be worse than we all thought.
 

Speedy30

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Have anyone considered the following cases?

If Tottenham win the CL they can win the European super cup and club's world cup, If Liverpool do win it they also can win the european super cup, club world cup and community shield, the CL is a big trophy and the club's world cup one is an okay one to take, while the other two are honorary trophies more than anything else but surely from a club perspective which the last trophy won was a League cup they would bite your hand for it.

Jokes on us really, we ve been mocking them both hard, but this year is turning out to be worse than we all thought.
I'm sure I read that the Club World Cup is not being played this year as they're trying to work out a new format for it. I could be wrong but I'm sure I saw that
 

MagicKarpet

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I'm sure I read that the Club World Cup is not being played this year as they're trying to work out a new format for it. I could be wrong but I'm sure I saw that
Correct, the latest is that it's postponed until 2021 where they'll have a new format which will take place in the summer if all goes ahead.
 

BobbyManc

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Spurs group was Barcelona, Inter and PSV and then had Dortmund, City and Ajax in the knockouts. Not exactly an easy path to the final either.
Very true, but I feel Spurs have been luckier in their ties too. Lucky to get past City and Ajax, although I wouldn't call either undeserved. Hard to deny that Liverpool have been the standout team in the CL this season. I'm not overly fussed who wins really, I mainly hope it's an entertaining game to suppress my disappointment that City yet again are not playing in it.
 

Amadaeus

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Very true, but I feel Spurs have been luckier in their ties too. Lucky to get past City and Ajax, although I wouldn't call either undeserved. Hard to deny that Liverpool have been the standout team in the CL this season. I'm not overly fussed who wins really, I mainly hope it's an entertaining game to suppress my disappointment that City yet again are not playing in it.
Spurs dominated Ajax and even the fancy xgstat will show that. They also put 3 past City in their home and beat you with a clean sheet in the first leg. City seem to have even more luck than Spurs with the easy opponent they had to face. This is all without their best player and so much injuries. Spurs were not even close to being lucky, they were just good under Pochettino. They deserve they place in the finals.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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The 3rd biggest team in London winning a one off cup final won't register on anyone but the most bitter Arsenal fan's mind!
They won't do it anyway, even with Klopp having the worst final record of any manager ever.

It's Tottenham!

The idea that winning the Champions League (which only a handful of English clubs have ever managed) 'wouldn't register' is absurd. It's the biggest tournament in club football, only 3 clubs in the Premier League can boast winning it at all, and the biggest club in the country has only managed it three times in their entire history.

Us winning it would be huge and would put us on the map, 100%. New stadium gets crowned with the champions league? Absolute dream world. The money and prestige boost would be huge.

I agree with you though, I think we'll fall just short. Liverpool are better than us, there's no getting round it and they fully deserve to be in the final with us.
 

BlueHaze

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Spurs dominated Ajax and even the fancy xgstat will show that. They also put 3 past City in their home and beat you with a clean sheet in the first leg. City seem to have even more luck than Spurs with the easy opponent they had to face. This is all without their best player and so much injuries. Spurs were not even close to being lucky, they were just good under Pochettino. They deserve they place in the finals.
To be fair second leg against Ajax, 5 minutes added time and they score at 5:01. To say they were not even being close to be lucky is very debatable.
 

BlueHaze

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The idea that winning the Champions League (which only a handful of English clubs have ever managed) 'wouldn't register' is absurd. It's the biggest tournament in club football, only 3 clubs in the Premier League can boast winning it at all, and the biggest club in the country has only managed it three times in their entire history.

Us winning it would be huge and would put us on the map, 100%. New stadium gets crowned with the champions league? Absolute dream world. The money and prestige boost would be huge.

I agree with you though, I think we'll fall just short. Liverpool are better than us, there's no getting round it and they fully deserve to be in the final with us.
Can't disagree on that. Reaching the finals is already a big achievement for Tottenham. Going on and winning it would be massive and would only bring positive effects with it.
 

vadimivich

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I'll be interested to see if the Spurs players can cope with the pressure, not because of the whole 'bottlers' reputation but just simply because of a lack experience in these situations.
I mean, the club captain just lifted the World Cup less than 12 months ago, and Llorente is a WC winner as well. Alderweireld played in a CL Final, and a good chunk of the team played in the WC semis last year too.

Spurs aren't maybe experienced together as a group, but it's not like the players on the team haven't played in big matches before. Is it the same? No. Does Liverpool have an advantage having gone through this whole few weeks leading up to the final last year? Of course. But I don't think Spurs are going to suddenly wilt because of the occasion.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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To be fair second leg against Ajax, 5 minutes added time and they score at 5:01. To say they were not even being close to be lucky is very debatable.
Scoring late isn't lucky, it's irrelevant when the goals come. We scored 3 in one half and hit the bar a few minutes before that + had it cleared off the line.

Our goal wasn't lucky, it was a bit of quality from one of our players. Luck might be if it was an illegal goal (not happening with VAR) or bounced off the back of someone's head and in, but it didn't.

I don't know why people file late goals under the lucky category. Oh and it was scored at 5:01 because Ajax were using your standard shithouse timewasting tactics so another minute or two was added on to that, fairly.
 

BlueHaze

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Scoring late isn't lucky, it's irrelevant when the goals come. We scored 3 in one half and hit the bar a few minutes before that + had it cleared off the line.

Our goal wasn't lucky, it was a bit of quality from one of our players. Luck might be if it was an illegal goal (not happening with VAR) or bounced off the back of someone's head and in, but it didn't.

I don't know why people file late goals under the lucky category. Oh and it was scored at 5:01 because Ajax were using your standard shithouse timewasting tactics so another minute or two was added on to that, fairly.
The goal itself wasn't lucky, it was a quality finish by Moura but I think if he had missed that the ref would have blown the whistle shortly thereafter and you would have been out. At the end of the day you deserved to go through anyway.
 

FootballHQ

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Very true, but I feel Spurs have been luckier in their ties too. Lucky to get past City and Ajax, although I wouldn't call either undeserved. Hard to deny that Liverpool have been the standout team in the CL this season. I'm not overly fussed who wins really, I mainly hope it's an entertaining game to suppress my disappointment that City yet again are not playing in it.
The ball has rolled for Spurs in knock outs but that happen sometimes, Chelsea in 2012 would be best example, a great squad that was past its peak and had no right to win that competition given who they faced but it happened.

Can see the same happening here. Even if Spurs go behind in the game they'll keep believing due to their comebacks.

Remember they were behind at Anfield and came back very strongly second half and should've won it in the end.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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The goal itself wasn't lucky, it was a quality finish by Moura but I think if he had missed that the ref would have blown the whistle shortly thereafter and you would have been out. At the end of the day you deserved to go through anyway.
The ref played on for about a minute or so after Ajax took their kick off. Onana had been wasting time (and was booked for it) and a few other incidents meant that it was prob about 6 minutes or so instead of 5.

I don't view that as lucky, doesn't make a difference to me whether a goal is scored in the first minute or the last.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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The final is pretty much over before it began, just like the one from last year, it
is simply too much of a mismatch in intensity, only this time around Liverpool will be crowned as champions and Klopp will give a teary eyes post-match interview in which he says how proud he is of the players, Ericksen will wave his goodbyes to the Spurs crowd, people will call Poch and Spurs bottlers again and that basically it.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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The ball has rolled for Spurs in knock outs but that happen sometimes, Chelsea in 2012 would be best example, a great squad that was past its peak and had no right to win that competition given who they faced but it happened.

Can see the same happening here. Even if Spurs go behind in the game they'll keep believing due to their comebacks.

Remember they were behind at Anfield and came back very strongly second half and should've won it in the end.

We're nothing like similar to Chelsea 2012. That was a genuine fluke of a campaign where they were played off the pitch by both Barcelona and Bayern but somehow escaped with wins, Barca in particular hit the post multiple times, I believe Chelsea equalised with their only shot on target vs Bayern. They did basically nothing for the entirety of that game then won it on penalties.

We've had our moments for sure but our games vs Ajax/City were both pretty even, we weren't completely dominated and then sucker punched them.

Bayern in that final had 20 corners with 0 goals, whereas Chelsea scored from their only corner of the game :lol:. It was honestly the most flukey and undeserved win I can remember as a football fan, no way should Bayern not have won that trophy.
 

BlueHaze

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The final is pretty much over before it began, just like the one from last year, only this time around Liverpool will be crowned as champions and Klopp will give a teary eyes post-match interview in which he says how proud he is of the players, Ericksen will wave his goodbyes to the Spurs crowd, people will call Poch and Spurs bottlers again and that basically it.
Liverpool are definitely favorites to win but you never know man. If Tottenham has a good day and everything goes their way you never know. But I think they will fall short in the end sadly..
 

1966

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The idea that winning the Champions League (which only a handful of English clubs have ever managed) 'wouldn't register' is absurd. It's the biggest tournament in club football, only 3 clubs in the Premier League can boast winning it at all, and the biggest club in the country has only managed it three times in their entire history.

Us winning it would be huge and would put us on the map, 100%. New stadium gets crowned with the champions league? Absolute dream world. The money and prestige boost would be huge.

I agree with you though, I think we'll fall just short. Liverpool are better than us, there's no getting round it and they fully deserve to be in the final with us.
Another big thing is that CL trophies were the kind of award that even Spurs fans expected the likes of Kane would have to leave to win. If he can win one at Spurs playing a role in the final, his loyalty may well be secured indefinitely.

A win would be massive in so many ways. With the transfer window coming up, this final really feels like a fork in the road between a continued upward trajectory and a slow ride to the end of an era for Spurs. (And I say this as someone who, despite not supporting a club, is easily most fond of Spurs in the PL)