Champions League Quarter Finals 2020/21 - Apr 6/7 & 13/14

Raees

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I must have watched a different game because to me Bayern didn't look scared at all when attacking. In fact, I don't think I remember any other game in the latter knockouts of CL where one of the teams was so incredibly berserk.
I don't see how their defenders shitting it off Mbappe has anything to do with their attackers wanting to take the game to PSG? unless you're going to say their defenders looked very comfortable and at ease against Mbappe and Neymar?
 

giorno

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Completely disagree.

Lets take the previous years final into account. They had more control than tonight, a more even game from a possession perspective but they did not look as dangerous. They looked less vulnerable, but on the balance of things, tonight was a better night not just because of the result but because Bayern looked scared of PSG on the counter.

You would much rather risk the run of a bloody nose, knowing you may be able to knock the opponent out by virtue of superior knockout power than fight cagily knowing when it comes to the end of it, you are much more likely to lose on points.

It wasn't pretty, it was not dominating, but this was a classic counter attack and smash and grab performance which was the gameplan from the off. They knew they would be outplayed but trusted that they would do enough damage on the counter to make it worthwhile. So tactically it worked.

It would be different if they went into it all guns blazing and then found themselves pinned back - which clearly was not the case. For example, PSG refused to press Bayern in their build up (completely going against Poch usual methods - clear indication of a gameplan) and they also adopted a low block 4-4-2 out of possession, again a clear sign, it was a plan to absorb pressure and snatch it on the counter.
You're putting the cart before the horse. They got incredibly lucky tonight. Setting up to defend and counter quickly is fine, but usually the "defend" needs to be executed well. They didn't do that. Not even close. Bayern could have scored 6 tonight. Most xG models i've seen had them at over 4xG. That is not a working plan, that's praying very hard for lady luck to come through for you. It's the equivalent of someone getting hit by an avalanche and coming out unscathed

In the final they looked dangerous enough, and even more so after Verratti came on, while also not getting played off the park and needing keylor navas to make 10 saves and bayern to miss a million chances

But this was about that Verratti take. Again, the only way that take remotely makes any sort of sense is if you start from the position that bayern are so much better than psg that this - a couple dangerous counter attacks and praying very hard for bayern to shoot their dicks off - was their only chance to compete
 

SER19

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Looking like 3 oil clubs in the semi finals. Dress it up any way you like, but it's pretty telling about how success is achieved now
 

Oly Francis

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Agreed but it forced PSG to go straight into Neymar rather than play it through the midfield thus bypassing the Bayern press - although admittedly, also meant they're more prone to change over in possession. So whilst it is a possibility that Verratti also would have assisted in them winning (I absolutely adore Verratti and he is no sideways passer), the build up is more likely to go through him before going to Neymar which slightly takes away from the verticality of their possession. So it did work for them and the proof is in the potency of their counter.
That's only half of the analysis. Nothing prevents PSG from going straight to Neymar if he's open with Verratti on the pitch, but PSG would have had far more counter attacks with Marco because he would have been able to diffuse Bayern's press on several occasions when Gueye/Herrera couldn't.
 

Oly Francis

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Looking like 3 oil clubs in the semi finals. Dress it up any way you like, but it's pretty telling about how success is achieved now
Oh come on, PSG ended up playing with :
- Danilo
- Dagba
- Bakker
- Gueye
- Herrera

It's hardly los galacticos.
 

GatoLoco

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I don't see how their defenders shitting it off Mbappe has anything to do with their attackers wanting to take the game to PSG? unless you're going to say their defenders looked very comfortable and at ease against Mbappe and Neymar?
I am not speaking about the defenders in specific actions, but about the team as a whole. For most of the game they were attacking as if they just had 15 minutes left to overcome the result. Had Bayern been scared they wouldn't have played such an advanced defensive line for 90 minutes to start with.
 

giorno

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That's only half of the analysis. Nothing prevents PSG from going straight to Neymar if he's open with Verratti on the pitch, but PSG would have had far more counter attacks with Marco because he would have been able to diffuse Bayern's press on several occasions when Gueye/Herrera couldn't.
This one gets it
 

Jim Beam

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Luck is a big factor you need in your favour in these type of set ups. Who can remember United v Barca in 2008? Messi played us off the park and we were on the edge all night apart from that Scholes goal, but it was a gameplan by us, it did rely on some luck but we did the job in the end and no one talks about how we got outplayed because we set up to ride that storm and eventually nick it.
Sorry, that was not a similar game at all and Barcelona were quite toothless despite having more initiative. In fact, we closed them down brilliantly.

Manchester United
Team Statistics​
Barcelona​
1
Goals​
0​
1
1st Half Goals​
0​
2
Shots on Target​
3​
5
Shots off Target​
4​
1
Blocked Shots​
7​
5
Corners​
4​
 

SER19

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Oh come on, PSG ended up playing with :
- Danilo
- Dagba
- Bakker
- Gueye
- Herrera

It's hardly los galacticos.
:lol: what a reach on a night the most expensive players of all time starred for a club that were barely also rans until middle Eastern money poured in. PSG are an oil club. You can disagree on whether that's good bad or indifferent, but not with the fact itself
 

SER19

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Sorry, that was not a similar game at all and Barcelona were quite toothless despite having more initiative. In fact, we closed them down brilliantly.
Yeah, complete revisionism. It was a tight tense game and Messi was poor
 

giorno

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Yeah, complete revisionism. It was a tight tense game and Messi was poor
I remember old trafford being absolutely petrified every time he was on the ball

But the game itself was more even and cagey, yes. Nothing like tonight's
 

SER19

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I remember old trafford being absolutely petrified every time he was on the ball

But the game itself was more even and cagey, yes. Nothing like tonight's
I remember being petrified every time he got the ball too. But thankfully he didn't do much with it that night and was managed as well as any team ever did
 

Oly Francis

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:lol: what a reach on a night the most expensive players of all time starred for a club that were barely also rans until middle Eastern money poured in. PSG are an oil club. You can disagree on whether that's good bad or indifferent, but not with the fact itself
We do have lots of money from our owner (it's gas, not oil but whatever) but it's not as if we had 2 full teams with top players like City, i'm objecting to the " it's pretty telling about how success is achieved now ". No, a more balanced team has far more chances of winning the CL.
 

copen1945

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We do have lots of money from our owner (it's gas, not oil but whatever) but it's not as if we had 2 full teams with top players like City, i'm objecting to the " it's pretty telling about how success is achieved now ". No, a more balanced team has far more chances of winning the CL.
It ia actually gas for all of Russia, Uae, and Qatar.
 

Raees

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That's only half of the analysis. Nothing prevents PSG from going straight to Neymar if he's open with Verratti on the pitch, but PSG would have had far more counter attacks with Marco because he would have been able to diffuse Bayern's press on several occasions when Gueye/Herrera couldn't.
Which may have paradoxically forced Bayern to be less gung ho in attack. The scarcity of the counter attack gave Bayern confidence to keep throwing the kitchen sink, thus exposing themselves at the back.

@giorno

Last year PSG lose 2-1 v Dortmund with Marco, they dominate possession marginally. He’s absent second leg they win 2-0, with less passes and possession.

Against Atalanta, they win 2-1 away without Marco.

They beat Leipzig without Marco 0-3.

In the final, they didn’t start Marco and they did look better with him there but philosophy wise they weren’t as committed to sheer counter - they were trying to play their football and it was an even game but you never quite felt that their front two was as dangerous as they looked tonight. Tonight they had much more space to work with.

Verratti playing may have enabled them to still counter and produce more counters but to say it’s laughable that his absence may make them more effective on counter or in CL is hardly a joke when you consider last years run with him barely featuring at all during the knockout stages.

Feel free to disagree on a point but your initial hysterical reaction and that of others in response to the post is unwarranted and not really built on any solid foundations.
 

Oly Francis

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Which may have paradoxically forced Bayern to be less gung ho in attack. The scarcity of the counter attack gave Bayern confidence to keep throwing the kitchen sink, thus exposing themselves at the back.

@giorno

Last year PSG lose 2-1 v Dortmund with Marco, they dominate possession marginally. He’s absent second leg they win 2-0, with less passes and possession.

Against Atalanta, they win 2-1 away without Marco.

They beat Leipzig without Marco 0-3.

In the final, they didn’t start Marco and they did look better with him there but philosophy wise they weren’t as committed to sheer counter - they were trying to play their football and it was an even game but you never quite felt that their front two was as dangerous as they looked tonight. Tonight they had much more space to work with.

Verratti playing may have enabled them to still counter and produce more counters but to say it’s laughable that his absence may make them more effective on counter or in CL is hardly a joke when you consider last years run with him barely featuring at all during the knockout stages.

Feel free to disagree on a point but your hysterical reactions and that of others in response to the post is unwarranted and not really built on any solid foundations.
Bayern often plays like that, it's just their gameplan, that's why they score a lot but also concede far more goals this year than they did in the past couple of years. Verratti is perfectly capable of getting the ball low on the pitch and finding Neymar with a single touch. It's impossible to rewrite history and guess how PSG would have played with Verratti in the final 8 last year.
 

Dumbstar

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Looking like 3 oil clubs in the semi finals. Dress it up any way you like, but it's pretty telling about how success is achieved now
Before oil there was tax payers money. No surprise Real have 14 of these trophies already. There's no 'now' about it.
 

Raees

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Bayern often plays like that, it's just their gameplan, that's why they score a lot but also concede far more goals this year than they did in the past couple of years. Verratti is perfectly capable of getting the ball low on the pitch and finding Neymar with a single touch. It's impossible to rewrite history and guess how PSG would have played with Verratti in the final 8 last year.
If Verratti is perfectly capable etc then why did they lose to Dortmund - a far inferior side to Bayern?

The point being, no guarantee that Verratti in the side is going to make them any more effective against Bayern tonight so therefore to say that PSG may have gained some tactical benefit from his absence is not that outlandish is it? let alone laughable.

People need to learn how to debate and disagree without sneering, when there is a valid point to be made.
 

Sayros

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Which may have paradoxically forced Bayern to be less gung ho in attack. The scarcity of the counter attack gave Bayern confidence to keep throwing the kitchen sink, thus exposing themselves at the back.

@giorno

Last year PSG lose 2-1 v Dortmund with Marco, they dominate possession marginally. He’s absent second leg they win 2-0, with less passes and possession.

Against Atalanta, they win 2-1 away without Marco.

They beat Leipzig without Marco 0-3.

In the final, they didn’t start Marco and they did look better with him there but philosophy wise they weren’t as committed to sheer counter - they were trying to play their football and it was an even game but you never quite felt that their front two was as dangerous as they looked tonight. Tonight they had much more space to work with.

Verratti playing may have enabled them to still counter and produce more counters but to say it’s laughable that his absence may make them more effective on counter or in CL is hardly a joke when you consider last years run with him barely featuring at all during the knockout stages.

Feel free to disagree on a point but your initial hysterical reaction and that of others in response to the post is unwarranted and not really built on any solid foundations.
This isn't a trend, it's a set of circumstances. You're assuming those results wouldn't have happened with Veratti, and it's a major leap of faith without any real evidence.

You speak to anybody who follows PSG regularly, outside of the odd moments of madness which have bit PSG with Veratti, they are far better with him than without. Instead of Guey getting the responsibility most of the time to make a quick decision to transition defense to offense, it would have been Veratti, and I think far more counter-attacks would have happened with that, but I'm not complaining as Lewandowski wasn't on the end of all those Bayern chances.
 

UnofficialDevil

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Looking like 3 oil clubs in the semi finals. Dress it up any way you like, but it's pretty telling about how success is achieved now
Like I said before, yes 3 oil clubs in the semi final of the champions league, but the wealthiest club on the planet is playing Granada in the Europa League, so something has to change.
 

SER19

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Like I said before, yes 3 oil clubs in the semi final of the champions league, but the wealthiest club on the planet is playing Granada in the Europa League, so something has to change.
I can't ever quite grasp how a discussion about the oil clubs can't be held without United being brought up. Totally separate points depending on the context. United have absolutely, utterly failed in their terrible pursuit of city after Ferguson left. That caveat might need to be added to threads if any discussion about city and psg is to occur
 

teteus

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It does not matter how many attacks you have but the quality of them and PSG looked dangerous as feck on those counters - they did not look like lucky sucker punches, it was genuinely effective counter play. Verratti may have enabled them to have more attacks, but no guarantee that they would have executed those attacks any better with him in the side as the likelihood is that he would have got on the ball, before passing it to Neymar - adding an extra step to the process and giving Bayern an extra phase of possession in which to get back thus slightly slowing the game. It is all hypothetical - they may have won with him there, but the fact is, despite Bayern's dominance, PSG's ability to get on the attack very quickly stunned that Bayern defence on enough occasions to secure the win.
The final last year was very a very equal game overall, PSG never battered Bayern in that final like Bayern did to PSG today, there is no comparison.

Today:

Bayern: 31 shots in total, 12 on target. 2 goals.

PSG: 6 shots in total, 5 on target. 3 goals.

Over a week ago, I said:

"Despite the loss of Lewandowski in the quarter-finals against PSG being obviously a big blow, I still favor Bayern to go through. They have amazing midfield, they are a great collective and well oiled unit. And Lewa will probably be back in the semis."

Bayern's midfield was far superior and, as I expected, they dominated and created more than enough chances to comfortably win today. But Lewandowski out was really too big of a loss.
 

RooneyLegend

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Bayern is so far ahead of the other clubs it would be comical if they get knocked out. Btw their squad depth is pretty poor, wonder why.
 

RooneyLegend

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The final last year was very a very equal game overall, PSG never battered Bayern in that final like Bayern did to PSG today, there is no comparison.

Today:

Bayern: 31 shots in total, 12 on target. 2 goals.

PSG: 6 shots in total, 5 on target. 3 goals.

Over a week ago, I said:

"Despite the loss of Lewandowski in the quarter-finals against PSG being obviously a big blow, I still favor Bayern to go through. They have amazing midfield, they are a great collective and well oiled unit. And Lewa will probably be back in the semis."

Bayern's midfield was far superior and, as I expected, they dominated and created more than enough chances to comfortably win today. But Lewandowski out was really too big of a loss.
It's the collective that's amazing, not really their midfield. They are easily the best coached team on the ball. It's not like it's a side with amazing players all over the place.
 

dbs235

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It's the collective that's amazing, not really their midfield. They are easily the best coached team on the ball. It's not like it's a side with amazing players all over the place.
That's how I always feel about Bayern. The front 3 definitely scares me. But the defense and midfield never seems anything special or worrying on paper. And yet they absolutely batter you :lol:
 

RooneyLegend

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That's how I always feel about Bayern. The front 3 definitely scares me. But the defense and midfield never seems anything special or worrying on paper. And yet they absolutely batter you :lol:
I feel like I need to watch them more to understand why they batter teams like that.
 

BayernFan87

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That's how I always feel about Bayern. The front 3 definitely scares me. But the defense and midfield never seems anything special or worrying on paper. And yet they absolutely batter you :lol:
I wonder how people can still underrate Kimmich, Goretzka and Müller.
One is arguably the best number 6 on the planet, one is a powerful box to box player with many goals that wins many balls and one is, well, Müller.

These 3 are definitely more important than our front 3 if Lewy is out.
Coman, Sané and Gnabry are very good on their day, but they are no world class wingers in my opinion. At least not consistently.
 

Cast5

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I wonder how people can still underrate Kimmich, Goretzka and Müller.
One is arguably the best number 6 on the planet, one is a powerful box to box player with many goals that wins many balls and one is, well, Müller.

These 3 are definitely more important than our front 3 if Lewy is out.
Coman, Sané and Gnabry are very good on their day, but they are no world class wingers in my opinion. At least not consistently.
You’re right what a midfield 3 that is, it has everything, Goals, assists, control, power, experience, technical ability etc. easily one of the best 3’s in Europe.
 

teteus

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That's how I always feel about Bayern. The front 3 definitely scares me. But the defense and midfield never seems anything special or worrying on paper. And yet they absolutely batter you :lol:
Kimmich is absolute class in midfield though, he is a Top 3 midfielder in the world and perhaps the best CM now. Kimmich and Müller were Bayern's best players today also.

It's the collective that's amazing, not really their midfield. They are easily the best coached team on the ball. It's not like it's a side with amazing players all over the place.
Great comment

I wonder how people can still underrate Kimmich, Goretzka and Müller.
One is arguably the best number 6 on the planet, one is a powerful box to box player with many goals that wins many balls and one is, well, Müller.

These 3 are definitely more important than our front 3 if Lewy is out.
Coman, Sané and Gnabry are very good on their day, but they are no world class wingers in my opinion. At least not consistently.
Also great comment
 

Suedesi

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Yeah in knockout football anything can happen, look at how bad Chelsea are this season they just lost 5-2 and probably won’t make top 4 yet are in a CL semi final.

PSG are wide open city will rip them to pieces, Bayern are a top team but until Lewa comes back they‘ll struggle.
City will eat a dick, they're the most overrated team, ever.
 

Suedesi

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The final last year was very a very equal game overall, PSG never battered Bayern in that final like Bayern did to PSG today, there is no comparison.

Today:

Bayern: 31 shots in total, 12 on target. 2 goals.

PSG: 6 shots in total, 5 on target. 3 goals.

Over a week ago, I said:

"Despite the loss of Lewandowski in the quarter-finals against PSG being obviously a big blow, I still favor Bayern to go through. They have amazing midfield, they are a great collective and well oiled unit. And Lewa will probably be back in the semis."

Bayern's midfield was far superior and, as I expected, they dominated and created more than enough chances to comfortably win today. But Lewandowski out was really too big of a loss.
Good analysis - and Bayern's defense shat the bed, starting with Neuer in the 3rd minute, followed by Sule and then Boateng also. Really bad game from them, Neymar and Mbappe were a threat anytime they got on the ball, which to be foar wasn't a lot but they still did the damage.

I could see why Bayern went for Upamecano, their CB options aren't great currently.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Chelsea have fluked their way deep into the CL a few times. I suppose they were screwed over so many times when they genuinely were one of the best teams in Europe.
2009. Ovrebo. Never been a more obvious case of a match fixing, IMO
 

amolbhatia50k

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Well that was a strange game. Bayern were clearly the better side carving out openings for fun but if you defend that high against a pacey attack you have to get it spot on, and they didn't. Neuer will a bad mistake and everyone forgot about Marquinos on the second.

I actually thought the final was a much more even game. Difference being that Neymar and Mbappe had moments when they turned it on. I think Bayern could have been a bit more cautious with their defensive line.

Chelsea's win was expected.

I really don't know who I want to win the CL this year. Liverpool need to feck off. City could make the final. PSG are absolutely pointless. Chelsea are Chelsea. And Madrid have won too many already.
 

Dancfc

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2009. Ovrebo. Never been a more obvious case of a match fixing, IMO
Unpopular opinion, I felt some of the decisions against Inter the following year were just as bad, if not worse.

I guess it was easier to accept that time because unlike with Barca they were the better team despite that but Jose then going on to say beating Barca was "for my Chelsea boys" was galling.