Why the hell would you replace Alonso over Moses? Alonso does it all, consistently being in the right position on both ends of the pitch, the most accurate crosser we've had in almost a decade, literally only one of his free kicks weren't on frame all season, and scored his fair share of goals. He just lacks some pace. Moses dribbles... and that's about it. He doesn't have the positional discipline Alonso does, does not have a great touch to say the least, and I'd say 3/5 crosses end up hitting the closest defender.
Chelsea 2017/18 thread - FA Cup Champs, League chumps
- Thread starter duffer
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I agree with this, but if you can acquire one of the best LB's in the world you have to take the chance. Very harsh on Alonso it must be said. Moses is definitely the wingback that most needed upgrading. Who knows, we may yet do so.
An important aspect of Alonso's game that will need replacing is his presence from goal kicks; he was a very effective outlet aerially. I'd expect Lukaku to fill this role, however, as he's far far better in the air than Costa is. Given the strong indications that Conte's top priority is to bring in Sandro and VvD, I'd expect to see a first choice wing back pairing of Azpilicueta and Sandro next season, which I think makes a lot of sense. Azpi is better going forward from the right side than he's given credit for, he puts in a decent cross with his right foot if not with his left and his shooting isn't any worse than Moses' for my money. This also fixes the main vulnerability of last season's 3-4-3, namely Alonso getting roasted for pace and crosses coming into the Moses/Azpilicueta zone at the far post.
I'd also like to see Chelsea go after someone like Bernardeschi, especially as Hazard is recovering. Plus after he's back it would be nice to have a left footed wide player as a different sort of option.
Thus, my ideal version team would look something like this:
-----------------Courtois-------------------
-----Van Dijk-----Luiz-----Christensen----
Azpilicueta(C)-Kante--Bakayoko---Sandro
------Pedro------Lukaku-----Hazard------
Bench: Caballero, Cahill, Alonso, Willian, Bernardeschi, Fabregas, Batshuayi
I personally think Christensen is already better than Cahill, though this is probably not going to happen from day one. All these moves seem pretty plausible, and would go a long way towards avoiding another post-title calamity.
I'd also like to see Chelsea go after someone like Bernardeschi, especially as Hazard is recovering. Plus after he's back it would be nice to have a left footed wide player as a different sort of option.
Thus, my ideal version team would look something like this:
-----------------Courtois-------------------
-----Van Dijk-----Luiz-----Christensen----
Azpilicueta(C)-Kante--Bakayoko---Sandro
------Pedro------Lukaku-----Hazard------
Bench: Caballero, Cahill, Alonso, Willian, Bernardeschi, Fabregas, Batshuayi
I personally think Christensen is already better than Cahill, though this is probably not going to happen from day one. All these moves seem pretty plausible, and would go a long way towards avoiding another post-title calamity.
Azpilicueta excelled in that centre back role last season, I think Conte would be taking a risk changing that. Also think you need to use Fabregas more, whether that means altering the midfield or dropping an attacker, I think it would be worth it because he's your most intelligent player and the only real creative midfield influence in the squad.
The thing about Azpilicueta is that he excels no matter where he plays. It was a common substitution while protecting a lead to put Zouma on for Moses, shifting Azpi to RWB, since Conte had identified that defensive vulnerability in the air. I would suspect it to be squashed from the off, otherwise the links to a top class CB make little sense to me personally.
I actually think Fabregas' role is pretty close to ideal and is almost unfair at times-I can't imagine how demoralising it must be for a defense that's been running for 60 minutes non stop to look over and see the best passer in the country coming on. In addition, if VVD arrives then that's another source of excellent long service over the top. Plus Lukaku's ability in the air would allow for flick ons and second balls to a much greater extent than Costa, so for me there's reasons to think Fabregas's precision becomes a little less required.
Yeah, he's a consistent machine and I'm sure he'd have another stellar season at wing back, but I think he's better off staying in the back three and providing a platform for Moses or another wing back to attack.
Fabregas does work well as a sub in the last half hour or so, I think he has more to give though. He's 30 and still world class on his day, with Kante and Bakayoko around him, it would give him even more freedom to dictate play.
Eh, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. He definitely provides a great platform, but in doing so creates a major weakness (not really through any fault of his own; he can't really control his height). I'd prefer to just have a world class CB like VVD there who is dominant in the air; I don't really think Moses is all that great anyhow and I'd argue Azpi is just as good going forward.
Re: Fabregas, I agree that he could play more, the problem is that the team would probably have to switch to 3-5-2 and I think you'd have to rely on Kante/Bakayoko to provide a lot more attacking thrust from midfield. It worked for Conte at Juve, but Vidal and Pogba had a lot more about them in an attacking sense than the pair at Chelsea do.
Oh I can't argue with that, just stating that if you had to choose between the 2, how would Alonso be first is all. It's amazing what Conte was able to do with this pair. People were calling them Sunderland and Stoke rejects in the preseason. Imagine what it'd be like with world class talents behind Hazard and Pedro.
I totally neglected Alonso's goal kicks. It's a little thing like that loves Conte. It's so simple yet so effective. Anyway, my issue with moving Azpilicueta outside is that he loses the ability to drive into midfield with the ball. He's not a good enough dribbler to be a threat hugging the line. Playing as a CB allots him the space on the pitch to make it easier for him. He's also a good enough passer and has the pace to make the defense have to respect him when he drives forward, as opposed to someone like Cahill who I'd let walk around the pitch with the ball because he's not doing a thing.
How do you feel about that XI? I'm not sold on it, which I feel like is a crazy thing to say because that means we're adding £240m worth of players to a dominant PL winning team, but there's a ton of question marks for me. The only players I'm sure of performing no matter what next season are Hazard, Kante, Courtois, and Pedro.
Would you welcome Dani Alves to replace Moses? Our right side would be Pedro, Alves and Azpilicueta. That's CL worthy if you ask me.
Not going to happen. He is no where near as creative to consistently play a wingback.
I think VVD is just as good at stepping up into midfield with the ball as Azpi, so I wouldn't be overly concerned there to be honest. We would be losing dribbling from Moses potentially, but Bakayoko would be better on the ball than Matic and could provide thrust/dribbling from midfield to make up for it if needed. I also think Azpilicueta is a more natural fit for the position and is in better shape, so he'd be better with his movement and could make better runs in behind. Plus you'd have the added weapon of VVD's passing from deep on the right flank, and he's better than Azpi.
I'd have loved Alves as a squad option but think he's nailed on for Man City.
I don't think he needs to be as creative; we'll have a centre forward who will be powerful in the air next season as opposed to Costa who couldn't score a header to save his life. Expect a lot more crosses next season, and Azpilicueta is an excellent crosser with his right foot.
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Would be a fantastic signing, but what happens to Alonso? He was really good last season.
If you don't have a wingback that can pin back the opposition fullback then you're going to end up with a back five on the back foot. That's why Conte played Moses over Azpilicueta last season rather than playing Zouma or Terry. Moses is not good enough at this level overall but his ability to drive the defence back was a really important part of how Chelsea set up. Being able to cross the ball is far less important.
Alonso was the very clear weak link in our first 11 for much of the season. He had a great finish to the season, but earlier his weaknesses were exposed on many occasions. I don't want to slate him because he did a good job overall and put in some excellent games late on, but he'd be the very first name on the team sheet I'd look to replace.
Agree about replacing Alonso, I too thought defensively he was our weak spot and worse we had no decent cover. Just hope he is willing to stay.
Me too, he'd be very decent cover for someone like Sandro.
Still think LWB is almost a bit overstacked now quality-wise compared to RWB (last season: Moses/Azpilicueta/Pedro). Are there any credible rumours about the right side (Alves seems to be City bound)?
Haven't heard anything at all. With Moses/Azpi and the young lad Ola Aina though I think we're ok at RWB. Pedro and Willian can both play RW and they're both excellent so I'm not really that worried about the right. If there was a world class option available then cool, but no-one comes to mind.
I think that's hogwash. You didn't really respond to anything I said about Alonso's attributes. This is my theory about this misconception between the two. Alonso is a defender first and foremost. Whenever something bad happens, you get angry and take note of it. No one in the world thought Victor Moses would be a season long starter for PL champions. Expectations for him are low for a reason. He's a winger, not even close to being a defender. Whenever something bad happens, "it's Moses playing out of position". Our right side has Pedro, Kante, and Azpilicueta on it. Things don't even look that bad because there's so much running and defensive prowess on one side. Our left side could be passed around by anyone. Hazard, Matic, Alonso, Cahill. Two of those players should be replaced, and a third is going to be simply because we're going to get one of, if not the best in the world at that position. The fourth is the most talented player at the club who doesn't want to put in a shift. Conte is praised for the system he's used because it frees up Hazard and let's him do what he wants. It does make it harder for his teammates an it.
Alonso's perceived blunders are always going to come off as worse. If you're directly comparing the two, who is better defensively? Alonso, easily. I'm not even sure that's debatable. How about going forward? For someone who was only a winger his entire career, the fact I can make a case that Alonso is better/more important to the team going forward is an indictment of Moses in my opinion.
Is Cesc staying? Think he only has 1 year left on his contract.
£60m for a left back
fecking hell
fecking hell
Your opinion is fine, but other people having a different one is also fine. Calling it hogwash is just rude to be honest. Although as you just listed Hazard as someone who should be replaced, I'll send that hogwash straight back atcha.
To be fair, he said Matic and Cahill should be replaced, not Hazard.Your opinion is fine, but other people having a different one is also fine. Calling it hogwash is just rude to be honest. Although as you just listed Hazard as someone who should be replaced, I'll send that hogwash straight back atcha.
Yeah, I re-read it and you're right. He was just slating him for not putting a shift in. I retract my hogwash and replace it with a piffle.
I reckon it's because Terry was past it whilst he just didn't trust Zouma; perhaps he might if given a full preseason but the rumblings of a loan move would indicate not which is a pity. I definitely agree that pinning the opposition fullback deep is of the utmost importance, but I don't think one needs to be a dangerous dribbler in order to do so. Alonso managed to do the same thing on the other flank and he can't dribble past anyone; he just positions himself aggressively and makes dangerous runs in behind. I see no reason Azpi couldn't do the same thing.
Alex Sandro?
Usual caveats of youtube highlights and whatnot, but good lord what a player this lad is.
Not much between him and Marcelo either:
Not much between him and Marcelo either:
Marcelo is by far the best LB in the world. There isn't a LB who can destroy Bayern like he did.
I think he's the best but not by far. Bayern were completely fecked over by the refs and demoralised, hard to give him a ton of credit there. If I had to slap an arbitrary number on it I'd argue Marcelo is 5% better, and is immensely aided by the fact that he basically never has to defend in the Spanish league.
He is by far. Funny you say Marcelo don't have to defend in Spanish league and Sandro plays for Juventus who are by far the best in Serie A where there isn't a decent team apart from Napoli.
There's much more quality in the bottom half of Serie A than in the bottom half of La Liga IMO-for sure Juve are the best team, but the matches week in and week out are more difficult, they aren't romping to 4-0 wins every week.
I obviously disagree with that. Juventus are shitting on Serie A for about 5 years, by far the best in the league and the bottom clubs in Serie A are piss poor with full of poor players, poor stadiums and infrastructure.
Fair enough! I suppose it's a point in your favour that Marcelo would cost well more than £60m in today's market.
Neither Azpilicueta nor Pedro have fully convinced me at RWB when Moses was out, each one for different reasons. And Moses himself isn't a very strong no.1 option either, imo. (No idea about Ola Aina.)
Conte seems to want to continue with just 3 mainly offensive players (the Bakayoko rumours suggest that), and the fullbacks have to offer a lot of offensive support. For my liking, Moses disrupted the offensive flow too often because of subpar situational reading and decisionmaking. So imo his limitations contributed to the overreliance on Hazard to break down defenses. I actually thought that Alonso was the more tidy & constructive wingback overall, despite not having Moses' agility and dribbling abilities.
But as things stand, Conte & Chelsea seem to prioritise the LWB position, so I don't have many arguments on my side. Still hoping for someone like De Sciglio.
Wonder if that's because there's a buyback included.
I'm really hoping for Nelson Semedo, my wife is a Benfiquista so I'm now one by proxy-he's absolute class and would be a dream signing as a RWB. As much as I like VVD I'd rather spend half that amount on Semedo but I haven't seen any credible links sadly.
Aina's just a kid, but he's looking impressive so far. Time will tell on that one of course.
I actually don't feel like we were that over-reliant on Hazard last year. We have been the years before, but last year saw a much stronger Pedro, Moses creating a lot of openings with his blistering pace and direct play, and Fab when he was on creating a lot and posing a decent goal threat. Obviously having a Hazard in the team is going to mean he's hugely important and noticable, but unlike in previous years where if he was out it felt like we were fecked, last year felt much more of a team effort.
But going forward he was your 4th striker. He was simply outstanding.
Expect them to struggle next year. The no champions league football and fact they had a point to prove last campaign really propelled them, along with conte's formation which was lesser known and the fact they avoided injuries to key players. Costa will be a big loss for them, but it's become kind of awkward as theres no indication where he'll end up or if he'll wai until Jan to go to Atletico. I expect them to drop back next year possibly see a major fall out happening with conte and abramovich.
I will dig this up in a few months time if/when it all unfolds.
I will dig this up in a few months time if/when it all unfolds.