Chelsea 2017/18 thread - FA Cup Champs, League chumps

Kentonio

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The only good player we seem to be in for is Sandro. Which in all likelihood will not happen.

And this signing of willy caballero is so underwhelming. He is pretty much a pub team level player.
He's a backup goalkeeper, were you expecting David de Gea?
 

duffer

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He's a backup goalkeeper, were you expecting David de Gea?
Indeed. Seems a decent replacement for Begovic (who never looked anything above bog-standard for Chelsea if we're being honest) and we won't be stuck with him for years.

Usually I always would prefer one of the academy players to step up but none of the young goalies look that good.
 

Kentonio

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Indeed. Seems a decent replacement for Begovic (who never looked anything above bog-standard for Chelsea if we're being honest) and we won't be stuck with him for years.

Usually I always would prefer one of the academy players to step up but none of the young goalies look that good.
Did we sell Jamal in the end, or is he on loan?
 

AshfordLad

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He's a backup goalkeeper, were you expecting David de Gea?
No. I would be happy with someone like Bravo or Ospina or Romero and Begovic was better than all three of them. As it is, if Courtois gets injured we could end up dropping valuable points in the top-4 race if we are still in it come next march.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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No. I would be happy with someone like Bravo or Ospina or Romero and Begovic was better than all three of them. As it is, if Courtois gets injured we could end up dropping valuable points in the top-4 race if we are still in it come next march.
For me Caballero is comfortably better than Begovic. Even if you disagree and rate the latter a bit more highly I don't think you can honestly argue that Chelsea haven't done a great bit of business turning a backup goalkeeper into £10m and signing a replacement that is comparable for free.
 

AshfordLad

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For me Caballero is comfortably better than Begovic. Even if you disagree and rate the latter a bit more highly I don't think you can honestly argue that Chelsea haven't done a great bit of business turning a backup goalkeeper into £10m and signing a replacement that is comparable for free.
Yes I rate Begovic. That said, saving £10m to what end. We cant get another player for that money.

Its like donning a great suit and then cheap out on the tie. It will ruin the whole fecking lot.

Worst thing is that we could have got Valdez for very little money or Diego Lopez even for free.
 
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D2Z

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Yes I rate Begovic. That said, saving £10m to what end. We cant get another player for that money.

Its like donning a great suit and then cheap out on the tie. It will ruin the whole fecking lot.
Begovic is awful lol
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Yes I rate Begovic. That said, saving £10m to what end. We cant get another player for that money.

Its like donning a great suit and then cheap out on the tie. It will ruin the whole fecking lot.

Worst thing is that we could have got Valdez for very little money or Diego Lopez even for free.
Every bit helps; obviously £10m doesn't go far on its own in today's market but it all adds up.

I'm frankly boggled that you rate the likes of Diego Lopez and Begovic ahead of Caballero. Caballero is a very decent player still if you ask me-yes his distribution can be inconsistent but I think he's still an excellent shot stopper. For me Chelsea have upgraded considerably at the position and turned a tidy profit.
 

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And yet infinitely better than caballero.
I fully disagree. Caballero is a lot better. To be honest, every single game that Begovic played for Chelsea, he was abysmal. I don't recall him having a great game. Maybe a couple if that? Thats about it?
 

AshfordLad

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Every bit helps; obviously £10m doesn't go far on its own in today's market but it all adds up.

I'm frankly boggled that you rate the likes of Diego Lopez and Begovic ahead of Caballero. Caballero is a very decent player still if you ask me-yes his distribution can be inconsistent but I think he's still an excellent shot stopper. For me Chelsea have upgraded considerably at the position and turned a tidy profit.
I dont agree at all. Begovic was good enough to keep Butland out of stoke first team for a while.

Either way, lets just pray that Courtois doesnt go for any dunks this season.
 

AshfordLad

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I fully disagree. Caballero is a lot better. To be honest, every single game that Begovic played for Chelsea, he was abysmal. I don't recall him having a great game. Maybe a couple if that? Thats about it?
Most of the times Begovic played behind a shit defense in 2015-16 season. If it wasn't for him Chelsea would have regularly lost games by 3 or 4 goals. He was heroic in some of those games. There is a reason a club was willing to pay £10m for him while caballero was jobless. You can only deny logic so far.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I dont agree at all. Begovic was good enough to keep Butland out of stoke first team for a while.

Either way, lets just pray that Courtois doesnt go for any dunks this season.
They overlapped for one season, in 2014-15, when Butland was 22. He was bought by Stoke in 2013 and was sent on loan immediately until then; saying that Begovic kept him out of the first team for a while is nonsense.

The only reason why someone was willing to pay for Begovic but not Caballero was the contract/age situation, given that Begovic is 5 years younger. As a backup that barely matters. I really am astonished that anyone could possibly be this bitter about this move-even were I to make the most pessimistic of assumptions about Caballero at the very worst this is a lateral move in talent yet the team has turned a tidy profit. Obviously circumstances are a bit odd and whatnot but let's have some perspective-we've just signed the starting goalkeeper of the team that finished 3rd last season to be our backup on a free transfer, made a profit on our prior backup goalkeeper, and (in my opinion at least) upgraded in talent at the position. What is not to like?
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Also I feel like I'm taking crazy pills but am I the only Chelsea fan who is genuinely excited at the prospect of getting Bakayoko next season? He has all the physical talents to be among the best central midfielders in the world; learning under Conte and alongside Kante will do wonders for his game. Yes he is raw but at the moment I can't think of a single thing that Matic does significantly better aside from shoot with his left foot. If Chelsea can turn Matic into Bakayoko for an equivalent transfer fee whilst signing the latter to a cheaper contract that is highway robbery, considering the fact that Bakayoko is 6 years younger.
 

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Most of the times Begovic played behind a shit defense in 2015-16 season. If it wasn't for him Chelsea would have regularly lost games by 3 or 4 goals. He was heroic in some of those games. There is a reason a club was willing to pay £10m for him while caballero was jobless. You can only deny logic so far.
Not at all. Begovic was abysmal.
 

KM

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Also I feel like I'm taking crazy pills but am I the only Chelsea fan who is genuinely excited at the prospect of getting Bakayoko next season? He has all the physical talents to be among the best central midfielders in the world; learning under Conte and alongside Kante will do wonders for his game. Yes he is raw but at the moment I can't think of a single thing that Matic does significantly better aside from shoot with his left foot. If Chelsea can turn Matic into Bakayoko for an equivalent transfer fee whilst signing the latter to a cheaper contract that is highway robbery, considering the fact that Bakayoko is 6 years younger.
Think you'd be pretty disappointed then. Half of the Caf thought the same but changed their opinions when they saw him in CL. Was pretty average in all of their CL matches.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Think you'd be pretty disappointed then. Half of the Caf thought the same but changed their opinions when they saw him in CL. Was pretty average in all of their CL matches.
Think that's very very harsh. For me his issue was one of consistency-when he was good he brought Monaco to another level; it will be up to Conte to get him performing minute by minute. It was very noticeable to me that Monaco would go through stretches within matches where they'd look dominant and stretches where they'd look very vulnerable, and I thought a lot of that was down to Bakayoko. When he was involved and able to impose himself Monaco tended to do well, when opponents were able to bypass him or he was a spectator they struggled.

The first half of the first leg against Man City is a prime example of this IMO-Bakayoko was brilliant I thought and Monaco were all over City.

Regardless, it seems silly to me to judge a 22 year old on a handful of CL matches anyhow. He was brilliant in Ligue 1 all season and by all accounts is the player Conte wanted above anyone alongside Kante in his midfield.
 

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Think that's very very harsh. For me his issue was one of consistency-when he was good he brought Monaco to another level; it will be up to Conte to get him performing minute by minute. It was very noticeable to me that Monaco would go through stretches within matches where they'd look dominant and stretches where they'd look very vulnerable, and I thought a lot of that was down to Bakayoko. When he was involved and able to impose himself Monaco tended to do well, when opponents were able to bypass him or he was a spectator they struggled.

The first half of the first leg against Man City is a prime example of this IMO-Bakayoko was brilliant I thought and Monaco were all over City.

Regardless, it seems silly to me to judge a 22 year old on a handful of CL matches anyhow. He was brilliant in Ligue 1 all season and by all accounts is the player Conte wanted above anyone alongside Kante in his midfield.
You are overrating Bakayoko very much and it's not surprising. It's the usual drill when Player is about to be signed.
 
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Synco

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Also I feel like I'm taking crazy pills but am I the only Chelsea fan who is genuinely excited at the prospect of getting Bakayoko next season? He has all the physical talents to be among the best central midfielders in the world; learning under Conte and alongside Kante will do wonders for his game. Yes he is raw but at the moment I can't think of a single thing that Matic does significantly better aside from shoot with his left foot. If Chelsea can turn Matic into Bakayoko for an equivalent transfer fee whilst signing the latter to a cheaper contract that is highway robbery, considering the fact that Bakayoko is 6 years younger.
How do you rate his passing game, is it better than Matic's (who is a decent playmaker, imo)? Statistically, Matic has been better in that department last season, but that's not conclusive of course. I also remember not being too excited about Bakayoko's playmaking capabilities when I watched him, but it was still a small sample size.

I'm asking, because I think that improving the buildup from midfield will be necessary for next season. It was a big problem when some teams outpressed Chelsea while man-marking Hazard late in the season. I'm still sceptical about Bakayoko being the right man for solving that problem, but I also guess Conte and Chelsea will know what they're looking for.
 

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Regardless, it seems silly to me to judge a 22 year old on a handful of CL matches anyhow. He was brilliant in Ligue 1 all season and by all accounts is the player Conte wanted above anyone alongside Kante in his midfield.
This is a rather strange conclusion to reach. He disappoints when faced with genuine competition and you want to discount judging him on those matches, yet you'd rate him on matches against generally weak opposition in the weakest of the major leagues. Still Conte has seen something so maybe we will be surprised .. or not.
 

duffer

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You are overeating Bakayoko very much and it's not surprising. It's the usual drill when Player is about to be signed.
That is true. Matic for example seems to be rated higher on here by the day! A few months ago he was an older and less mobile Fellaini. Give it a few days and he'll be Roy Keane reborn.
 

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That is true. Matic for example seems to be rated higher on here by the day! A few months ago he was an older and less mobile Fellaini. Give it a few days and he'll be Roy Keane reborn.
And exact opposite thing is happening with Chelsea fans, he is worse than Gibson now.
 

KM

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That is true. Matic for example seems to be rated higher on here by the day! A few months ago he was an older and less mobile Fellaini. Give it a few days and he'll be Roy Keane reborn.
You're kidding me right. The majority are losing their shit over him in the transfer forum.
 

Kentonio

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And exact opposite thing is happening with Chelsea fans, he is worse than Gibson now.
Matic is an odd one. On a good day he's immense, but he can disappear too often. We thought he was totally done after the 15/16 debacle, but last year he was much improved. Not up to his 14/15 standards where he was basically the best midfield destroyer on the planet, but he seemed to have his confidence back and even started making some of the forward runs again that used to be a noticeable part of his play.

Despite the improvements though, it didn't happen so often that I'll be gutted to see him go. He could well get back to his best and turn into an absolute monster for you guys, but I don't think it's likely enough to worry me that he's going. Even without a substantial improvement in form though, he's still a very good player, and will provide you with a very solid option.
 

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Prediction: This season David Luiz will be exposed for the player that he is, and the forums will gradually turn against him.

Quite looking forward to it myself, I must say.
 

Kentonio

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Prediction: This season David Luiz will be exposed for the player that he is, and the forums will gradually turn against him.

Quite looking forward to it myself, I must say.
Why would the forums turn against him when he's revealed to be a sumptuously talented CB who has finally gotten the silliness out of his game? ;)
 

AndersB

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Why would the forums turn against him when he's revealed to be a sumptuously talented CB who has finally gotten the silliness out of his game? ;)
He's had one season at Chelsea where he's markedly -reduced- his sillliness and rashness, I'll give him that. But it's written into his DNA, and once the Chelsea tide starts turning, it will come to the fore again, believe you me
 

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How do you rate his passing game, is it better than Matic's (who is a decent playmaker, imo)? Statistically, Matic has been better in that department last season, but that's not conclusive of course. I also remember not being too excited about Bakayoko's playmaking capabilities when I watched him, but it was still a small sample size.

I'm asking, because I think that improving the buildup from midfield will be necessary for next season. It was a big problem when some teams outpressed Chelsea while man-marking Hazard late in the season. I'm still sceptical about Bakayoko being the right man for solving that problem, but I also guess Conte and Chelsea will know what they're looking for.
This is a very valid point which everybody seems to be overlooking. Bakayoko and Kante is too much of the same thing. Unless Conte is going to have Fabregas in front of them, there is no creativity, which Chelsea will surely need this season.
 

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He's had one season at Chelsea where he's markedly -reduced- his sillliness and rashness, I'll give him that. But it's written into his DNA, and once the Chelsea tide starts turning, it will come to the fore again, believe you me
It just depends on the system. He is great in a back 3/5 and shit in a back4.
 

Kentonio

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He's had one season at Chelsea where he's markedly -reduced- his sillliness and rashness, I'll give him that. But it's written into his DNA, and once the Chelsea tide starts turning, it will come to the fore again, believe you me
Written into his DNA? What does that even mean? I was still an irresponsible feckwit until my late 20's, some people just take longer to calm down and focus, especially given the insanely high pressure and money footballers live with..
 

Pete Dahh Sneak

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Are Chelsea fans disappointed that Ake has left?
I am. I think he's a sure tackler and a better proactive defender than Cahill. However, you can't have to 2 CBs under 6ft so I get it.

I've got the same feeling too. We never seem to do well in rebuilding after winning the league.
I really am skeptical about this season, which is a shame because we should be flying high theoretically.

This is a rather strange conclusion to reach. He disappoints when faced with genuine competition and you want to discount judging him on those matches, yet you'd rate him on matches against generally weak opposition in the weakest of the major leagues. Still Conte has seen something so maybe we will be surprised .. or not.
Ligue 1 players seem to have the easiest transition to England and we won the league beating the stuffing out of the small clubs.

Prediction: This season David Luiz will be exposed for the player that he is, and the forums will gradually turn against him.

Quite looking forward to it myself, I must say.
He only had a 2 month period where he sorta showed flashes kinda. So it's possible.

This is a very valid point which everybody seems to be overlooking. Bakayoko and Kante is too much of the same thing. Unless Conte is going to have Fabregas in front of them, there is no creativity, which Chelsea will surely need this season.
We didn't have creativity from Matic either though. Bakayoko actually looks comfortable with the ball at his feet and can beat a man consistently. It's the only reason why I'm a little optimistic about the transfer.
 

Cassidy

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We didn't have creativity from Matic either though. Bakayoko actually looks comfortable with the ball at his feet and can beat a man consistently. It's the only reason why I'm a little optimistic about the transfer.
Bakayoko seems a bit clumsy to me, but maybe its just me
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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This is a rather strange conclusion to reach. He disappoints when faced with genuine competition and you want to discount judging him on those matches, yet you'd rate him on matches against generally weak opposition in the weakest of the major leagues. Still Conte has seen something so maybe we will be surprised .. or not.
But for me he hardly disappointed in the CL-his issue was one of consistency, not being outperformed if that makes sense. He didn't look out of his depth, when he was involved he ran the midfield, the problem was he was too easily bypassed. I genuinely thought he was dominant for large phases of the tie against City and Dortmund, for instance-yes he was anonymous against Juventus but a lot of that was down to Allegri outfoxing Jardim and playing down the wings, largely nullifying the midfield altogether.

I guess I'm just befuddled as to where this reputation for poor performances in the CL came from in the first place. I watched Monaco a ton this season and it's just strange to me.
 

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Bakayoko only stood out for me in the CL as looking like a terribly overrated player.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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How do you rate his passing game, is it better than Matic's (who is a decent playmaker, imo)? Statistically, Matic has been better in that department last season, but that's not conclusive of course. I also remember not being too excited about Bakayoko's playmaking capabilities when I watched him, but it was still a small sample size.

I'm asking, because I think that improving the buildup from midfield will be necessary for next season. It was a big problem when some teams outpressed Chelsea while man-marking Hazard late in the season. I'm still sceptical about Bakayoko being the right man for solving that problem, but I also guess Conte and Chelsea will know what they're looking for.
He moves the ball more quickly than Matic does and is more comfortable with either foot from what I've seen. In addition, he will also dribble with the ball (like Matic used to do when he first came back) to break pressure, which will be key I think-we don't really have anyone who does that from central midfield at the moment.