Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
17,336
I think it’d be a mistake to drop Giroud to be honest.

If it was up to me and I was picking this Chelsea side, I’d probably drop the #10 and play Werner with Giroud.
 

Ødegaard

formerly MrEriksen
Scout
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
11,474
Location
Norway
Seems Chelsea are treating him like a backup option should we miss our other targets.

The Onana links are the most concrete out of any keeper we've been linked to, the Oblak interest is real as well but obviously far from realistic.
I'm guessing Kepa won't be easy to sell for a while?
 

TrustInJanuzaj

'Liverpool are a proper club'
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
10,712
Not much of a leapfrog though, is it mate?
Doesn’t really address my point though does it. Just signing 5/6 new players doesn’t guarantee anything and Utd will get better next season no doubt in my mind.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
6,583
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
I'm guessing Kepa won't be easy to sell for a while?
Most likely outcome looks like a multi-year loan with some sort of vesting obligation to buy should he hit appearance benchmarks or something like that.

There were rumblings for a while of a triple swap where Kepa would go to Valencia on a loan, Cillessen would go back to Ajax, and Onana would go to Chelsea. That talk seems to have cooled a bit of late, however.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,378
Supports
Chelsea
Doesn’t really address my point though does it. Just signing 5/6 new players doesn’t guarantee anything and Utd will get better next season no doubt in my mind.
I know you believe that mate, but with respect, we're two very similar teams at similar stages in transition. Chelsea finishing above United next season isn't the big achievement you think it is.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,378
Supports
Chelsea
What do Chelsea fans think or Willian's strengths and weaknesses? Also can he play in midfield or is he limited to the wing?
You've had the long detailed answers. Here's the short one.
 

Redfrog

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,858
Everyone is raving about Chelsea signings but I'm not sure Werner and Ziyech are as good as people are saying.

I don't know them very well but I've just seen Werner goals in Bundesliga and I don't think he will score a lot like that in the Prem. A lot of them were mistakes by a high and weak defensive line. He seems fast and powerfull but not a fox in the box or a holding focal point in attack so I think he is better suited to counter attacks or playing off a central striker.

Ziyech seems superb technically to be honest but also weak. He will get bullied in the Prem I think. He is already 27 and seems to me doing a lot of fancy stuff but I'm not sure he will be very effective. His numbers are not that impressive playing for Ajax in a second tier league.

Maybe they will come very good but I don't think it is as certain as people are saying. With new signings you never know anyway.

What do you think guys ?
 

Lay

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
19,998
Location
England
Ziyech isn’t a player that I’d be overly confident in.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
50,364
Location
Chelsea (the saviours of football) fan.
I'm more confident in Ziyech than i am in Werner.

My fear is that Werner more suited to a "park the bus and hit them on the break" style. I hope I'm wrong of course.
 

Redfrog

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,858
I'm more confident in Ziyech than i am in Werner.

My fear is that Werner more suited to a "park the bus and hit them on the break" style. I hope I'm wrong of course.
That what I thought too. But I won't be confident about Ziyech either. You have to ask why he is still at Ajax at his age. He seems flashy but I'm not sure he will be consistent.

The thing is everyone seems so exited about them two but they don't seem in the top top tier footballers to me.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
50,364
Location
Chelsea (the saviours of football) fan.
That what I thought too. But I won't be confident about Ziyech either. You have to ask why he is still at Ajax at his age. He seems flashy but I'm not sure he will be consistent.

The thing is everyone seems so exited about them two but they don't seem in the top top tier footballers to me.
Ziyech has been excellent in the champions League as well as domestically.

Not sure what you mean by "top, top tier". Messi? Of course not. De Bruyne? Nobody is expecting that.

If he's a decent improvement on what we have, it's a good signing. He cost less than Nathan Ake will, he does not need to set the league on fire to be a successful signing.
 

Redfrog

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,858
Ziyech has been excellent in the champions League as well as domestically.

Not sure what you mean by "top, top tier". Messi? Of course not. De Bruyne? Nobody is expecting that.

If he's a decent improvement on what we have, it's a good signing. He cost less than Nathan Ake will, he does not need to set the league on fire to be a successful signing.
You are probably right when you put his price in consideration. But I'm not sure he will be an improvement on Willian.

I just think he is not as good as Rashford, Martial, Sancho or potentially Greenwood when you put his age and end product in consideration. (I am maybe a bit biased)

Giroud was vital for you after the break and I'm not sure from where the goals will come from next season. You always seems to do well anyway, probably your players will share the burden. But I'm not sure if you have someone capable to scoring 20+ goals a season. Abraham seemed to be that guy at the start of the season but he has fallen off the cliff.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
50,364
Location
Chelsea (the saviours of football) fan.
I just think he is not as good as Rashford, Martial, Sancho or potentially Greenwood when you put his age and end product in consideration. (I am maybe a bit biased)
He's not replacing Rashford, Martial, Sancho or Greenwood so what difference does that make?

He'll be judged by how he compares to William, Pedro, Barkley and other Chelsea players in similar roles.
 

Redfrog

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,858
He's not replacing Rashford, Martial, Sancho or Greenwood so what difference does that make?

He'll be judged by how he compares to William, Pedro, Barkley and other Chelsea players in similar roles.
No, but we finished with the same number of points this year and we will be the closest competitors for third and fourth next year me think.

And both teams are such unknown quality for different reasons.

I wonder who will finish one ahead of another and I think your signings could go either way. It is really hard to judge for me.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
50,364
Location
Chelsea (the saviours of football) fan.
No, but we finished with the same number of points this year and we will be the closest competitors for third and fourth next year me think.

And both teams are such unknown quality for different reasons.

I wonder who will finish one ahead of another and I think your signings could go either way. It is really hard to judge for me.
I think Werner and Ziyech will be upgrades on Willian and Pedro.

You might not think so and that's fine, time will tell!
 

Redfrog

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,858
I think Werner and Ziyech will be upgrades on Willian and Pedro.

You might not think so and that's fine, time will tell!
On Pedro sure ! Willian was always usefull to you I think. But I don't watch Chelsea as much as you so what do I know.
As you say time will tell !
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,378
Supports
Chelsea
On Pedro sure ! Willian was always usefull to you I think. But I don't watch Chelsea as much as you so what do I know.
As you say time will tell !
Willian ia definitely useful, but that's hardly setting a high bar. If you watched Chelsea more, there's no chance you'd think Willian is anything more than an inconsistent winger who does something useful once in a while.
 
Last edited:

sammsky1

Pochettino's #1 fan
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
32,841
Location
London
How lenient will Roman be with Lampard? Will he be his normal trigger happy self and sack at a whim. Or is he in it for the long haul, and give Lampard a few more seasons to get it right?

what are the realistic and non negotiable objectives for Lampard to keep his job?
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,378
Supports
Chelsea
Everyone is raving about Chelsea signings but I'm not sure Werner and Ziyech are as good as people are saying.

I don't know them very well but I've just seen Werner goals in Bundesliga and I don't think he will score a lot like that in the Prem. A lot of them were mistakes by a high and weak defensive line. He seems fast and powerfull but not a fox in the box or a holding focal point in attack so I think he is better suited to counter attacks or playing off a central striker.

Ziyech seems superb technically to be honest but also weak. He will get bullied in the Prem I think. He is already 27 and seems to me doing a lot of fancy stuff but I'm not sure he will be very effective. His numbers are not that impressive playing for Ajax in a second tier league.

Maybe they will come very good but I don't think it is as certain as people are saying. With new signings you never know anyway.

What do you think guys ?
Nothing is certain of course, it's entirely possible Ziyech will struggle, but, does he seem weaker to you than David Silva? Juan Mata? Ozil? Mahrez? He might be slightly slimmer than someone like Ozil, but the days when frail looking foreign guys being bullied out of the league are long gone. Bruno Fernandes is hardly built like Essien himself :)
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,378
Supports
Chelsea
How lenient will Roman be with Lampard? Will he be his normal trigger happy self and sack at a whim. Or is he in it for the long haul, and give Lampard a few more seasons to get it right?

what are the realistic and non negotiable objectives for Lampard to keep his job?
I'd like to think the club has turned over a new leaf, with a long-term view, and Lampard will be given more time than usual, but my gut feeling is he's on the clock now, and he has about 2 seasons to deliver a genuine title challenge.
 

sammsky1

Pochettino's #1 fan
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
32,841
Location
London
Comfortable top 4 next season, title challenge the year after.
Basically same as ole.

So if either is successful, they will likely be directly responsible for the other getting the sack!

this could become quite a feisty rivalry
 

Noodle

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
323
Supports
Chelsea
As it stands a starting eleven of:

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Mount
Kovacic Kante
Alonso Zouma Rudiger James
Kepa

With Giroud, Abraham, Jorginho, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Emerson, Gimour, RLC, CHO, Barkley as squad players

Now i feel we have to add Havertz and at least 2 defensive improvements (combination of keeper/CB or Keeper LB etc) to really close the gap. The only way we get all three of those is if we sell the deadwood.

One thing is for sure, this will be Lampards first real test after the free pass this season.
 

Mount's Goatieson

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
545
Supports
Chelsea
I look at Vardy and I have no doubt that Werner will be successful in the PL. Might take a few months to fully adapt but will no doubt score a lot of goals. He's way better technically than Vardy, better passer, faster and on par with movement in the box. You'd say Vardy is more clinical but Werner takes more shots at diverse angles than Vardy.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,721
I look at Vardy and I have no doubt that Werner will be successful in the PL. Might take a few months to fully adapt but will no doubt score a lot of goals. He's way better technically than Vardy, better passer, faster and on par with movement in the box. You'd say Vardy is more clinical but Werner takes more shots at diverse angles than Vardy.
Vardy is one of the best finisher in the league, Werner is not, his finishing is not as good. So not every quick player will be as good as Vardy, otherwise Morata would have been playing for Chelsea as a 9.

Also not sure if Werner is quicker than Vardy.
 

Mount's Goatieson

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
545
Supports
Chelsea
I
[QUO="roonster09, post: 25858748, member: 43337"]
Vardy is one of the best finisher in the league, Werner is not, his finishing is not as good. So not every quick player will be as good as Vardy, otherwise Morata would have been playing for Chelsea as a 9.

Also not sure if Werner is quicker than Vardy.
[/QUOTE]
I did sa
Vardy is one of the best finisher in the league, Werner is not, his finishing is not as good. So not every quick player will be as good as Vardy, otherwise Morata would have been playing for Chelsea as a 9.

Also not sure if Werner is quicker than Vardy.
I did say Vardy is more clinical. Also he's been successful in the PL with basically pace and finishing, everybody knows those are his strengths yet he is still successful in scoring. Werner has a lot more in his locker than that and if we maintain our chance creation or slightly improve it next season he will get his chances to score.
Also Morata is no longer our no 9 because he was mentally weak and let a poor performance affect his game more than it should. He cared more about what the media would say after a missed chance than looking up burying the next one that will come.
Morata is also not as fast or clinical as Vardy and Werner.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,721
I did say Vardy is more clinical. Also he's been successful in the PL with basically pace and finishing, everybody knows those are his strengths yet he is still successful in scoring. Werner has a lot more in his locker than that and if we maintain our chance creation or slightly improve it next season he will get his chances to score.
Also Morata is no longer our no 9 because he was mentally weak and let a poor performance affect his game more than it should. He cared more about what the media would say after a missed chance than looking up burying the next one that will come.
Morata is also not as fast or clinical as Vardy and Werner.
Yeah, what I meant is, you came up with very simplistic logic. Like you said about Morata, Vardy is exact opposite, one of the strongest when it comes to mentality. Werner had few issues, not sure how he is now, like crowd noise was too much some sort of that.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

'Liverpool are a proper club'
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
10,712
I know you believe that mate, but with respect, we're two very similar teams at similar stages in transition. Chelsea finishing above United next season isn't the big achievement you think it is.
We will see...
 

DevilRed

Full Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
12,932
Location
Stretford End
As it stands a starting eleven of:

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Mount
Kovacic Kante
Alonso Zouma Rudiger James
Kepa

With Giroud, Abraham, Jorginho, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Emerson, Gimour, RLC, CHO, Barkley as squad players

Now i feel we have to add Havertz and at least 2 defensive improvements (combination of keeper/CB or Keeper LB etc) to really close the gap. The only way we get all three of those is if we sell the deadwood.

One thing is for sure, this will be Lampards first real test after the free pass this season.

:lol::lol::lol:
 

ZolaWasMagic

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
2,714
Supports
Chelsea
As it stands a starting eleven of:

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Mount
Kovacic Kante
Alonso Zouma Rudiger James
Kepa

With Giroud, Abraham, Jorginho, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Emerson, Gimour, RLC, CHO, Barkley as squad players

Now i feel we have to add Havertz and at least 2 defensive improvements (combination of keeper/CB or Keeper LB etc) to really close the gap. The only way we get all three of those is if we sell the deadwood.

One thing is for sure, this will be Lampards first real test after the free pass this season.
Agree on the defensive reinforcements. Suspect Havertz coming in sadly means less minutes for Mount. Kovacic a better player IMHO but lacks the goals admittedly, and Kante we should keep.

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Havertz

Kante Kovacic

Chilwell Zouma (new cb) Azpi

Onana

Is my honest prediction of next years side
 

Giggs' right foot

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
1,032
Agree on the defensive reinforcements. Suspect Havertz coming in sadly means less minutes for Mount. Kovacic a better player IMHO but lacks the goals admittedly, and Kante we should keep.

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Havertz

Kante Kovacic

Chilwell Zouma (new cb) Azpi

Onana

Is my honest prediction of next years side
You think you will get half a whole new lineup within a single summer? Has that happened, ever, at a top-4 club?
 

SwedishFish

New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Messages
1,129
Agree on the defensive reinforcements. Suspect Havertz coming in sadly means less minutes for Mount. Kovacic a better player IMHO but lacks the goals admittedly, and Kante we should keep.

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Havertz

Kante Kovacic

Chilwell Zouma (new cb) Azpi

Onana

Is my honest prediction of next years side
How on earth are you going to afford Chilwell who most likely will cost a fee way north of 60 million pounds as he's english. A new CB of good quality which likely will cost above 30 and Onana on top of what you've already bought?

Transfer outlay will be way above 200 million pounds mid pandemic? Sounds like high hopes to me. I think Havertz and one of those positions would be a fantastic summer for Chelsea and seems like a more realistic target.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
6,583
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
How on earth are you going to afford Chilwell who most likely will cost a fee way north of 60 million pounds as he's english. A new CB of good quality which likely will cost above 30 and Onana on top of what you've already bought?

Transfer outlay will be way above 200 million pounds mid pandemic? Sounds like high hopes to me. I think Havertz and one of those positions would be a fantastic summer for Chelsea and seems like a more realistic target.
Fortunately it seems like we're going for Reguilon instead - better player at 1/3 the cost.
 

Noodle

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
323
Supports
Chelsea
Fortunately it seems like we're going for Reguilon instead - better player at 1/3 the cost.
I'd be happy with a punt on Reguilon at £20m ish, Emerson will be sold for that anyway so it's a straight swap. Leaves more for a CB and GK which are the priority
 

ZolaWasMagic

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
2,714
Supports
Chelsea
How on earth are you going to afford Chilwell who most likely will cost a fee way north of 60 million pounds as he's english. A new CB of good quality which likely will cost above 30 and Onana on top of what you've already bought?

Transfer outlay will be way above 200 million pounds mid pandemic? Sounds like high hopes to me. I think Havertz and one of those positions would be a fantastic summer for Chelsea and seems like a more realistic target.
Not high hopes, I seriously think if/when Havertz joins, the window will end with a LB, CB and GK on top. GK only if Kepa goes on loan or something, admittedly. Of course thats not to say they wont be cheaper alternatives to who we see in the press linked, but i think the positions will be added to. We also have Abramovich who by all accounts is willing to put money in if needed.

I can also envisage a fair amount leaving on loan or perm, too. Morata, Pasalic have gone for roughly 60m-65m, and i think we earnt another 12 waiving our right to Boga's buyback from Sassuolo. Willian and Pedro aswell now.
 

ZolaWasMagic

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
2,714
Supports
Chelsea
You think you will get half a whole new lineup within a single summer? Has that happened, ever, at a top-4 club?
well think about it, it looks like 3 of those incoming are nearly done already, and its only now the end of the season for us. (Werner, Ziyech, Havertz maybe). Whether its a top 4 club or bottom 4 is irrelevant, signing 5-6 players in one summer window is not unheard of.

It's not crazy to think that given who may leave and what not, that by end of September a LB, CB could be signed. Gk will depend on Kepa. This is not a typical summer for Chelsea compared to recent years in the sense that due to the ban and having an apparent sizeable budget sat there, it's very opportunistic. It's why it looks like we have a clear run at Havertz. We can pay it should we wish, other clubs dont want to right now. It's also why we had no issue going in and just triggering Werner's release clause. We are in a fortunate position in some sense