Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

WeePat

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That is what we want to see.

A lot of the goals we have conceded have tended to be individual errors this season IIRC, which I think would keep our xG down. We've looked much better and much less open in recent games.
We have barely coughed up any clear cut chances in in the last 4-5 weeks - one in the United game, and one in the Sevilla game, that's it - over a period of 6 games..
 

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Goes without saying

But has Lampard demonstrated some sort of naivety or cluelessness?
Not at the moment. Its really looking like it was a personal problem all along.
Last season we were one of the best teams in terms of shots conceded yet conceded a shit load of goals.
A personal change at the back has shown an immediate stark contrast.
 

WeePat

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He was oddly reluctant to go back to the 4-3-3 that worked so well after project restart with Kante sitting deeper - it's not a coincidence that we've improved dramatically since going away from the 4-2-3-1. Instead of having to shoehorn Mount in on the left, he's back playing as an 8 which looks his best position by a distance. Havertz seems to work equally well as an 8 or a 10. Kante obviously has to curb some of his forward pressing instincts, but the team as a whole is more balanced with him being more disciplined in his positioning.

Beyond that, I think most Chelsea fans would like to see more minutes for some of our younger players - particularly CHO and Tomori - but this is small potatoes and I'm happy we've found a settled and effective first XI.
I wonder how much having Thiago Silva in there helps rein Kante in a little, because his natural tendency to press high up the pitch seem to have been curbed slightly, and he's doing a phenomenal job at screening the back 4 as well as pressing aggressively at anything that comes anywhere near the halfway line.

He's also under less pressure to play in tight spaces in the area of the pitch he operates in now, hence his ball retention and distribution has improved leaps and bounds.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I wonder how much having Thiago Silva in there helps rein Kante in a little, because his natural tendency to press high up the pitch seem to have been curbed slightly, and he's doing a phenomenal job at screening the back 4 as well as pressing aggressively at anything that comes anywhere near the halfway line.

He's also under less pressure to play in tight spaces in the area of the pitch he operates in now, hence his ball retention and distribution has improved leaps and bounds.
Yeah and the presence of Thiago Silva allows for Jorginho to be omitted - Silva is an elite elite distributor from deep, and last season our 4-3-3 struggled occasionally when teams sat off us and dared Kante / Rudiger / Zouma to try to spray long passes into space. Silva is such a brilliant reader of the game and he's always talking - this has to be a help to Kante.

I also think having Mount in central areas just ahead of Kante has helped too, given his pressing ability. Ziyech as well helps in this regard.
 

Dancfc

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I wonder how much having Thiago Silva in there helps rein Kante in a little, because his natural tendency to press high up the pitch seem to have been curbed slightly, and he's doing a phenomenal job at screening the back 4 as well as pressing aggressively at anything that comes anywhere near the halfway line.

He's also under less pressure to play in tight spaces in the area of the pitch he operates in now, hence his ball retention and distribution has improved leaps and bounds.
My biggest complaint about Kante being a sitting DM is it totally buggered our first phase build up play, i remember seeing a highlights reel of the Villa game after the restart (of the positions he was taking up while our defense had the ball) and i wanted to cry, even more so given the previous 2 games before that all be it 3 months prior was Gilmour producing a masterclass on how to play that position.

However this season it doesn't seem to be anywhere near a problem, has he learned that role (with us in possession) better or has Lamps found a way round it?
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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My biggest complaint about Kante being a sitting DM is it totally buggered our first phase build up play, i remember seeing a highlights reel of the Villa game after the restart (of the positions he was taking up while our defense had the ball) and i wanted to cry, even more so given the previous 2 games before that all be it 3 months prior was Gilmour producing a masterclass on how to play that position.

However this season it doesn't seem to be anywhere near a problem, has he learned that role (with us in possession) better or has Lamps found a way round it?
I think the problem was neither he nor any of our CBs at the time were technically good enough on the ball to present a genuine threat, so teams could more or less stand off them and be unbothered. Silva obviously helps remedy this, and I think the other key is that Kante looks more comfortable in these sorts of deep positions and is happy to either take on the first defender or play diagonals.
 

WeePat

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Yeah and the presence of Thiago Silva allows for Jorginho to be omitted - Silva is an elite elite distributor from deep, and last season our 4-3-3 struggled occasionally when teams sat off us and dared Kante / Rudiger / Zouma to try to spray long passes into space. Silva is such a brilliant reader of the game and he's always talking - this has to be a help to Kante.

I also think having Mount in central areas just ahead of Kante has helped too, given his pressing ability. Ziyech as well helps in this regard.
Silva's presence has really tied up so many loose ends with this team. I don't think we could reasonably expect any other hotshot CB who costs £60m+ to have this kind of impact. It's pretty astonishing to think Silva just fell into our lap on a free transfer.
 

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Silva's presence has really tied up so many loose ends with this team. I don't think we could reasonably expect any other hotshot CB who costs £60m+ to have this kind of impact. It's pretty astonishing to think Silva just fell into our lap on a free transfer.
Only one that fits a similar profile in terms of ball progression, box defending, and stature is Upamecano. Certainly he's hugely inconsistent still though, but going forward he might make sense next to Zouma (and if he could be bought next summer to learn under Silva for a season).
 

Dave Smith

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Only one that fits a similar profile in terms of ball progression, box defending, and stature is Upamecano. Certainly he's hugely inconsistent still though, but going forward he might make sense next to Zouma (and if he could be bought next summer to learn under Silva for a season).
Upcameno and Zouma together spells absolute disaster in my book. Both are great athletes and strong boys but they leave a bit to be desired in regards to reading the game and positioning. Zouma has looked all over the place except for when he has been next to Terry and Silva. Upamecano plays in a three and is still getting caught out a lot in a similar way that Zouma was last season. In my opinion, Zouma and Upcameno would have a similar dynamic to Rudiger and Zouma but with better aerial ability.

If/when Chelsea go for another CB they should be looking at a KK or a Ginter i.e. someone that can control the line and keep Zouma from roaming.
 

Dancfc

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Worth remembering Thiago himself was found from the Brazilian league at the age of 25.

Surely there's a similar profile of player lurking about somewhere that we could find for his long term replacement?
 

RooneyLegend

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Silva's presence has really tied up so many loose ends with this team. I don't think we could reasonably expect any other hotshot CB who costs £60m+ to have this kind of impact. It's pretty astonishing to think Silva just fell into our lap on a free transfer.
Signing an all time great should have that sort of impact. You can literally see him organize the defence on the pitch both in the build up and defending. Pretty sure even Lampard is learning from him.
 

RooneyLegend

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Worth remembering Thiago himself was found from the Brazilian league at the age of 25.

Surely there's a similar profile of player lurking about somewhere that we could find for his long term replacement?
Tomori
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Upcameno and Zouma together spells absolute disaster in my book. Both are great athletes and strong boys but they leave a bit to be desired in regards to reading the game and positioning. Zouma has looked all over the place except for when he has been next to Terry and Silva. Upamecano plays in a three and is still getting caught out a lot in a similar way that Zouma was last season. In my opinion, Zouma and Upcameno would have a similar dynamic to Rudiger and Zouma but with better aerial ability.

If/when Chelsea go for another CB they should be looking at a KK or a Ginter i.e. someone that can control the line and keep Zouma from roaming.
I don't necessarily disagree with you entirely but I think your characterization of Zouma as a roamer is off-base - he'll step up to contest aerial duels but isn't liable to go on walkabouts. Of the two, Upamecano is better suited to the label given his propensity to carry the ball forward.

I suppose part of my hope is that Zouma could continue to learn from Silva - on paper, Zouma looks a top class sweeper CB.
 

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sign up, they said. it's a fun draft, they said.
Worth remembering Thiago himself was found from the Brazilian league at the age of 25.

Surely there's a similar profile of player lurking about somewhere that we could find for his long term replacement?
Think that was pretty much a one-off. If he hadn't had that absolute nightmare spell in Europe in his early 20s, he'd have gone the normal career route for a Brazilian talent.
 

duffer

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Drawing with West Brom, throwing a 2 goal lead away to draw with Southampton & getting outclassed by Liverpool.
All pre-Mendy.

It's amazing what having a semi-competent goalkeeper can do. Stick Kepa or Willy in goal for Man United in the late 90s under Fergie and your trophy cabinet would be a lot more sparse!
 

Dancfc

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Drawing with West Brom, throwing a 2 goal lead away to draw with Southampton & getting outclassed by Liverpool.
We lost 3-0 to West Brom when he won one title, lost 3-0 to Middlesbrough for another and threw away a 2 goal lead at home to Bolton when we won another.

That said I don't disagree the jury is still out on whether he can make the final push to a title challenge but bringing up a few select games as "proof" he can't is wrong at the best of times, let alone given they were games where we had at best 1 of the 3 new back 5 recruits playing.
 
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All pre-Mendy.

It's amazing what having a semi-competent goalkeeper can do. Stick Kepa or Willy in goal for Man United in the late 90s under Fergie and your trophy cabinet would be a lot more sparse!
If you & Everton swapped managers you would win the league & they would finish bottom half.

Lampard just ain’t it.
 

duffer

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If you had a top manager in charge I’d make you joint favourites with City & Liverpool but Lampard ain’t it.
Don't put this on your application to work at William Hill, they'd throw you out the building.

Favourites after finishing a feckton of points behind top and then half a new team? Never in a million years would we be joint favourites, not even with a Fergie or Jose in their prime.
 

Dancfc

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If you & Everton swapped managers you would win the league & they would finish bottom half.

Lampard just ain’t it.
Would this be the same manager that has only won 4 titles in over 2 decades of management despite the fact he always had a top 2 in the league team up until last year?
 

WeePat

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Kurt Zouma's excellent form is being noticed and rewarded.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/11/didi...and-aymeric-laporte-in-france-squad-13575805/

The Manchester City defender is yet to even make his debut for the national side. ‘There’s competition everywhere,’ the France head coach explained at his pre-match press conference on Tuesday. ‘Kurt has been with us for a while, he’s been called up many times but hasn’t played that much. ‘If I pick him it’s because I think he’s better than the other people because of what he’s doing at Chelsea. ‘He had a few injuries in a row but now he’s been very fit for a while, he’s very calm, so he’s here.’

Deschamps added: ‘If you’re asking why I picked those four central defenders, I have to choose. ‘We have three games in nine days so obviously everybody will play, including Kurt.’

Deschamps insisted the ‘door is not closed’ on Upamecano ahead of next summer’s delayed European Championships. ‘He was with us before. He’s going through a more difficult moment,’ he continued. ‘He knows he can do better. He was quite emotional during his first call-up in September, and in October as well. ‘He’s a young player and he has the potential. He’s playing many games.


‘Of course, if it’s not him, it’s another, it’s about the competition. Kurt Zouma in that case, who’s doing very well, he’s a starter at Chelsea and he knows the French team as well. ‘The door is not closed. I make that choice today because it’s logical to me. ‘Will it be the same in March and June? It’s the same thing for all of the players who were not called but can hope to be in the national team.’
 

Rajiztar

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If you & Everton swapped managers you would win the league & they would finish bottom half.

Lampard just ain’t it.
It's pretty early to judge teams and manager. Especially this season is certainly not a normal one for many reasons.

Having no preseason, games come thick and fast and manager have little to no time to spend time with players.

Lampard done a good job last season without a transfer window and have to deal with no hazard in the team.

This season too had early hiccups but now looking like he steadied the boat and most of the new recruits settled well. Team almost find the balance between attack and defence.
 

SirReginald

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If you & Everton swapped managers you would win the league & they would finish bottom half.

Lampard just ain’t it.
I love Carlo but his insistence on a diamond has always been his undoing. Now everyone has got to grips with it you can see that they are struggling and yet again everyone tipped them as ‘the dark horse’. They will finish 9th and show little to no progress as usual.

Frank has tweaked with the team slightly at every turn. Even last season. He will get it right but it’ll take time for everything to click. Right now we are seeing what I’d describe as a false click, I don’t think the team has completely stabilized yet but their are positive signs.

In the ups and downs over the last couple of seasons, for me, the most refreshing thing is that Frank hasn’t hidden in the tough moments or blamed everyone else. He has admitted mistakes, is prepared to answer the tough questions articulately and gone on to learn from his mistakes as well.
 

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So Silva out and Chilwell doubtful against Newcastle.

So inevitably this means we'll probably concede a couple of goals and the "Lampard can't coach defending" crew will return with a vengeance come 2.45 Saturday!
 

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So Silva out and Chilwell doubtful against Newcastle.

So inevitably this means we'll probably concede a couple of goals and the "Lampard can't coach defending" crew will return with a vengeance come 2.45 Saturday!
So what you’re saying is that Chelsea are reliant on a couple of individuals and are liable to concede goals without them. Sounds like the manager cannot coach the wider unit to me.
 

cyberman

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So Silva out and Chilwell doubtful against Newcastle.

So inevitably this means we'll probably concede a couple of goals and the "Lampard can't coach defending" crew will return with a vengeance come 2.45 Saturday!
Almost as if fans saying you cant rely on Silva to cover you this season could be correct....?
 

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Even without Silva and Chiwell, you shouldn’t be conceding a couple against Newcastle. If they do, questions will rightly be asked about the A-Level PE teacher.
 

VP89

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Even without Silva and Chiwell, you shouldn’t be conceding a couple against Newcastle. If they do, questions will rightly be asked about the A-Level PE teacher.
If they win 4-2 I don't think anyone will give a shit.
 

duffer

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Even without Silva and Chiwell, you shouldn’t be conceding a couple against Newcastle. If they do, questions will rightly be asked about the A-Level PE teacher.
There you are! I was beginning to worry.

All it took from your month long break from posting in this thread was something negative happening to Chelsea.

A load of Chelsea wins and clean sheets and you were like Glaston after a Spurs loss.
 

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There you are! I was beginning to worry.

All it took from your month long break from posting in this thread was something negative happening to Chelsea.

A load of Chelsea wins and clean sheets and you were like Glaston after a Spurs loss.
I was actually banned from the Caf for disparaging remarks about Mark Ogden and that random Twitter-famous ‘lady’ who were saying horrible things about Harry Kane’s speech.

Prior to that, I was also banned for a disparaging remark in the General Forum about Glaston.

I generally post, when not banned, come rain or shine :)
 

CulturalAries

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The amount of attacking talent on this team is absolutely outrageous & it increasingly looks like Frank has somehow find a way to fit them all in while maintaining a semblance of balance.

A potential front 5 of Mount, Havertz, Ziyech & Tammy/Werner/Pulisic/CHO with Reece/Chilly as supporting casts looks tantalizing.

We now have the potential to score from anywhere.

If the half spaces are shut down we can score from crosses.
If we're being pinned in our own box we can play it into the channels & score in transition.
Against low blocks, get into the pockets & score
And if a team is defending the right flank well we can score from the other flank & vice versa.

That said this is purely dependent on a midfield 3 of two 21 year olds & a B2B midfielder playing defensive mid working. There are still massive question marks about all 3 at this moment of time despite a string of good performances. And I don't think our manager thinks it'll work in every game hence the huge interest in Rice.
 

duffer

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I was actually banned from the Caf for disparaging remarks about Mark Ogden and that random Twitter-famous ‘lady’ who were saying horrible things about Harry Kane’s speech.

Prior to that, I was also banned for a disparaging remark in the General Forum about Glaston.

I generally post, when not banned, come rain or shine :)
Didn't know you were banned. Sorry!

Does that mean you are on your best behaviour now and I can insult you safe in the knowledge you have to be a good boy?
 

Zaphod2319

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I think with Azpi on the left and a Rudiger Zouma pairing, we will lose a little in the left attack, but be fine in defence. There is enough attack in other areas. I am never rock solid that we will beat every team with less talent right now, but I don't think we are going to give up goals just because Silva and Chilly are out. Mendy out would be a different kind of panic.
 

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Didn't know you were banned. Sorry!

Does that mean you are on your best behaviour now and I can insult you safe in the knowledge you have to be a good boy?
Ha, the most offensive bit was being compared to Glaston.

I figure I will try to be more constructive in my postings from here on in, with the odd reasonable barb lobbed in.

Annoyingly, it does seem as though Chelsea have turned the corner defensively.

I’ll lurk around though on the off chance that’s not the case!