Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

GenZRed

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They were dire today. I expected them to stuff Arsenal but they didn't come close.
 

rhajdu

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You're too good now. He punches down, like a scoundrel.
It seems that the main problem is that Chelsea and Lampard gets far fewer criticism than Manchester United and Solskjaer. It is a fair point, but I don't think the solution is that the former pair should be criticized more. The latter pair should be getting far less criticism if anything.

I do think that Ole is doing a fantastic job and our matches are enjoyable once again. However, I don't expect any praise from anybody since most of the posters can't appreciate what's happening here. So why would the outlets tell otherwise?

By the way, it is hilarious that from the last 10 PL matches Arsenal could only win against us and you. Hopefully, they will continue their profilic form and the next win comes against Liverpool.
 
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TheReligion

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Tbh I don't overly mind Chelsea even if the ethics of both they and City don't sit with my own when it comes to football.

The main reason I go at them a bit on here is there's a few Headhunters who needs keeping in line from time to time. They get a bit giddy you see.
 

Mr.Ridiculous__

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You're wrong.

Lampard has spent £222.48 at Chelsea.
Ole has spent £273.85 at Man United.
(both figures from Transfermarkt for consistency).
Do you understand the context and the market at which the respective amounts were spent? Or does context hold no value.

Also Chelsea are bang average. As of this moment, they are. Need some spine in that team.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You're wrong.

Lampard has spent £222.48 at Chelsea.
Ole has spent £273.85 at Man United.
(both figures from Transfermarkt for consistency).
Lampard spent that money to fix team that finished 3rd and won EL. Ole spent that money to fix team that finished 6th with no trophy. The bigger the problem, the harder to fix.
 

duffer

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Do you understand the context and the market at which the respective amounts were spent? Or does context hold no value.
Context is of course important. Correcting people spreading lies about cold hard facts is also important.
 

WeePat

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We'll be alright. Just need to ride out this period of terrible form. We'll be fine
 

Knux

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That bloke James on the RB seems rated very highly in London. I’ve watched him two last games now and looks very good going forward but a defensive disaster at times. I think he’s been at fault for two penalties in two games now?

Lampard can’t be too happy with him surely. Didn’t they sign a new RB in the summer? Or was it LB?
 

dev1l

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That bloke James on the RB seems rated very highly in London. I’ve watched him two last games now and looks very good going forward but a defensive disaster at times. I think he’s been at fault for two penalties in two games now?

Lampard can’t be too happy with him surely. Didn’t they sign a new RB in the summer? Or was it LB?
Biggest issue with Reece James, (as with a lot of young athletic defenders)is that he rashes too much. He s still learning when he should put his foot in and when not.
 

Knux

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Biggest issue with Reece James, (as with a lot of young athletic defenders)is that he rashes too much. He s still learning when he should put his foot in and when not.
Yeah he should be fine over time. But he really needs to work on that because those tackles in the penalty box can be costly in the end of the season.

He would be a monster RB If the got the defensive qualities that AWB has.
 

duffer

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That bloke James on the RB seems rated very highly in London. I’ve watched him two last games now and looks very good going forward but a defensive disaster at times. I think he’s been at fault for two penalties in two games now?

Lampard can’t be too happy with him surely. Didn’t they sign a new RB in the summer? Or was it LB?
We didn't concede a penalty in our last game and the one tonight was a bit bullshit.

He's leaning though. Always going to have a couple of moments.
 

WeePat

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Yeah he should be fine over time. But he really needs to work on that because those tackles in the penalty box can be costly in the end of the season.

He would be a monster RB If the got the defensive qualities that AWB has.
He didn't seem himself today. It could be because he was actually injured and Lampard rushed him out there rather than allowing him the time to recover. He's generally very good in 1-on-1 defending but Tierney had him on toast in the first half.

I used to say when people compared Trent, James and AWB that James was the 2nd best defender and attacker of the 3, with AWB being the best defender and Trent being the best attacker. James has improved on both fronts this season though.
 

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That bloke James on the RB seems rated very highly in London. I’ve watched him two last games now and looks very good going forward but a defensive disaster at times. I think he’s been at fault for two penalties in two games now?

Lampard can’t be too happy with him surely. Didn’t they sign a new RB in the summer? Or was it LB?
Still better than TAA apparently.
 

RyRoc

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just been comfortable beaten by the worse arsenal side in years without their three best players Aubameyang , Partey and Gabriel. Extremely worrying signs for them especially in the first half.
 

WeePat

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The last good performance we had was Leeds. That's 5 games ago.
 

Lentwood

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I feel that defeat today validated my criticism of Frank Lampard.

I don’t know what his plan is with this Chelsea side. It’s not clear how he wants to play or how he intends to use the 258 players at his disposal.

I almost think having so many options is confusing Frank. I heard they have used 27 players already this season. That’s crazy. Partnerships need to be built. A style needs to be identified. Patterns of play need to be developed.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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There were United fans on this forum who thought they were leaped a level above us after their signings.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I’m not convinced the squad is all that impressive, really.

Full of nice players like Pulisic, Mount, Kovacic and Havertz (there are others) but there’s a complete lack of cutting edge and star power. Battling for top four is about as good as it will get for this squad.

They need a Drogba and a Hazard to get any further.
I agree.

They lack star power.
 

CM10

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Apparently Chelsea have less points this season than they did at this same stage last season.

I still don't think Lampard knows his best team yet. He hasn't found a role for Havertz and Giroud hasn't had the minutes his performances have warranted.
 

cheeky_backheel

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Lampard doesnt seem to know how to setup his team. He has been fortunate to have a relatively high quality squad to hide his failings.
 

Lentwood

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It's not.

How many do you think Man United have used? How many do you think Liverpool have used?

Man United have used 26. Liverpool have used 30.
OK, fair enough, it sounded shocking the way Sky said it!

Even so, I think it’s fair to say Klopp knows his best XI. Likewise, Ole is getting there game by game and bar the odd tweak you can basically predict how we will line up.

It doesn’t seem like Frank knows his best XI. Where does Havertz fit? Where does Werner fit? Giroud vs Abraham? Kante deep or playing further forward to enable Jorginho to play? Has the GK situation been resolved or is the new bloke just a stop-gap? Does Zouma and Silva work as a partnership and/or is either player good enough to start for a team with top three ambitions? Can Reece James play as a RB in a four or is he much more effective as a RWB?

If you look at the talent available, there’s no reason why Chelsea shouldn’t be right up there. I think more problematic than the results is the performances. I’ve seen the last three games and I would describe them as “abject” on each occasion - despite somehow managing to beat West Ham 3-0.

I also don’t understand the signings. Where Havertz and Werner really what this team required to go to the next level? They might have been popular signings with the Football Manager- playing hipsters and may yet turn out to be great players, but do they really fit and was it the best use of the funds?
 

duffer

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OK, fair enough, it sounded shocking the way Sky said it!

Even so, I think it’s fair to say Klopp knows his best XI. Likewise, Ole is getting there game by game and bar the odd tweak you can basically predict how we will line up.

It doesn’t seem like Frank knows his best XI.
He knows, it's this...
Mendy.
James Zouma Silva Chilwell
Kante Mount xxx
Ziyech XXX Pulisic

Obviously a couple of doubts (which is totally expected when so many new players come in at once) and due to Puli and Ziyech missing so much with injury, Werner has been shunted out wide.

Havertz is still young, missed a bit with a serious illness and is getting used to a new league. He gets a season to show what he's capable of for me, regardless of the fee.
 

groovyalbert

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I know the table is close, but they forked out £200m+ in one window - at a time when their rivals were struggling to spend - and they're getting served this? I don't get how Lampard isn't being ripped to shreds? He's bang average at best. Must be a British manager thing.
 

Bale Bale Bale

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Most of the top clubs have been very wasteful in the market over the past few years. Only Liverpool and Leicester have gotten their money's worth.
 

Lentwood

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He knows, it's this...
Mendy.
James Zouma Silva Chilwell
Kante Mount xxx
Ziyech XXX Pulisic

Obviously a couple of doubts (which is totally expected when
The back five aren’t good enough. You’re not going to win a title with Zouma and a 36yo Thiago Silva at CB.

£120m has been spent in the Summer on players who don’t make that team you posted above, even in today’s market £120m buys you two potentially world class CBs

It just seems bizarre to me Frank splashed so much money on attacking players (who arguably aren’t better than players already at the club) when it was obvious to every man and his dog it was the defence that needed strengthening.
 

TheGame

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He knows, it's this...
Mendy.
James Zouma Silva Chilwell
Kante Mount xxx
Ziyech XXX Pulisic

Obviously a couple of doubts (which is totally expected when so many new players come in at once) and due to Puli and Ziyech missing so much with injury, Werner has been shunted out wide.

Havertz is still young, missed a bit with a serious illness and is getting used to a new league. He gets a season to show what he's capable of for me, regardless of the fee.
For me, they need a better partner for Kante and Havertz in the 10 position. Mount is a good squad player but feel they someone to stamp their authority in midfield alongside Kante.

Also surely Rudegir should be starting?
 

duffer

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The back five aren’t good enough. You’re not going to win a title with Zouma and a 36yo Thiago Silva at CB.

£120m has been spent in the Summer on players who don’t make that team you posted above, even in today’s market £120m buys you two potentially world class CBs

It just seems bizarre to me Frank splashed so much money on attacking players (who arguably aren’t better than players already at the club) when it was obvious to every man and his dog it was the defence that needed strengthening.
Zouma already has 2 prem titles so I dispute that. Silva was a very good short term option to improve the overall solidity of our defence, I think it's pretty clear he's done that.

Frank signed 6 players, 3 defensive, 3 attacking. Havertz costing what he did obviously skews the figures hugely in favour of the attacking 3 (plus defenders/goalies generally go for less).

Who are these defenders you think would be an improvement on Zouma & Silva that we could've got for £60 mil (that would've joined Chelsea)?
 

duffer

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For me, they need a better partner for Kante and Havertz in the 10 position. Mount is a good squad player but feel they someone to stamp their authority in midfield alongside Kante.

Also surely Rudegir should be starting?
Zouma and Silva have been excellent for us. Our problems this season are not those two.

I'd like to see a run of games with Ziyech, Havertz and Werner playing together but I think (due to injuries) that has happened once I think. Hard to say our new players can't gel when they have not had a chance to play together.
 

cyberman

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I know the table is close, but they forked out £200m+ in one window - at a time when their rivals were struggling to spend - and they're getting served this? I don't get how Lampard isn't being ripped to shreds? He's bang average at best. Must be a British manager thing.
They had such a huge advantage that this has to be job threatening. Our own fans were slamming Utd saying this is how its done. Chelsea fans were asking for 80 plus points and a title challenge.
Now, for some reason, Lampard underperforming and we have to pretend that these standards weren't set for him. As if Frank was buying long shots and kids who need to develop instead of monstrous purchases made during a world wide pandemic and a collapsed transfer market.
 

Lentwood

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Zouma already has 2 prem titles so I dispute that. Silva was a very good short term option to improve the overall solidity of our defence, I think it's pretty clear he's done that.

Frank signed 6 players, 3 defensive, 3 attacking. Havertz costing what he did obviously skews the figures hugely in favour of the attacking 3 (plus defenders/goalies generally go for less).

Who are these defenders you think would be an improvement on Zouma & Silva that we could've got for £60 mil (that would've joined Chelsea)?
I could give you a long, long list of players who have won PL titles that weren’t regulars in their teams at the time, so just because Zouma has two medals doesn’t convince me he is good enough as a starter week in week out.

I’m the first to admit I don’t watch much European football (especially because Utd haven’t been in the CL that often recently!) but Leipzig might have been tempted by £60m for Upemecano so there’s one. City signed Diaz for £63m from Benfica, looks a good player. There’s Kimpembe and Marquinhos at PSG - might be difficult to prise away but you never know unless you try. Likewise Varane at Madrid. We all know they need a rebuild, would £70m/£80m have tempted them?

In the PL, I’m thinking maybe Tyrone Mings might be worth a go at a top club? Left-footed as well which seems to be in demand.

It’s difficult because as I say, I’m not one of these mad football fans who “supposedly” watches Ajax, Leverkusen, Leipzig, Dortmund, Monaco, Lyon, Porto, Benfica, Schalke etc...very often. Unless they play Utd or another English club in a big European game I’m not going to have seen them play. By the time I am aware of them, they are probably already at a top club. That doesn’t really excuse Chelsea’s scouting team not knowing about them though. If the best they can come up with is Silva on a free to support Zouma and Christensen then it’s not a glowing endorsement of their abilities

Edit: By the way, I’m not just having a go at Chelsea here through some kind of tribalism. I wish you had won the last 6 titles, believe me! One thing I don’t like though is false narratives. I’ve defended Arteta (check post history) and I’ve been a staunch defender of Ole throughout (I started the “Ole in Bridgade thread 12 months ago as evidence). I also really like Klopp and admire his Liverpool side despite me desperately not wanting them to win anything! My problem with Frank and Chelsea is they get an easy ride. Even yesterday, Martin Tyler said something like “Arsenal are dismantling this very good Chelsea side”...are they very good? What’s that based on? Ole gets no credit whatsoever. If we win, it’s luck or down to individuals. If we finish third, it’s because the league was poor that season. If we get to a semi, we should have won the competition. We beat last seasons CL finalist and semi-finalist in this year’s competition, go out by virtue of a bit of naivety and playing some very good sides and we’re in crisis mode.

Frank finishes 4th and you have Paul Merson writing a Sky article about how he should be LMA Manager of the Year!
 
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duffer

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I could give you a long, long list of players who have won PL titles that weren’t regulars in their teams at the time, so just because Zouma has two medals doesn’t convince me he is good enough as a starter week in week out.

I’m the first to admit I don’t watch much European football (especially because Utd haven’t been in the CL that often recently!) but Leipzig might have been tempted by £60m for Upemecano so there’s one. City signed Diaz for £63m from Benfica, looks a good player. There’s Kimpembe and Marquinhos at PSG - might be difficult to prise away but you never know unless you try. Likewise Varane at Madrid. We all know they need a rebuild, would £70m/£80m have tempted them?

In the PL, I’m thinking maybe Tyrone Mings might be worth a go at a top club? Left-footed as well which seems to be in demand.

It’s difficult because as I say, I’m not one of these mad football fans who “supposedly” watches Ajax, Leverkusen, Leipzig, Dortmund, Monaco, Lyon, Porto, Benfica, Schalke etc...very often. Unless they play Utd or another English club in a big European game I’m not going to have seen them play. By the time I am aware of them, they are probably already at a top club. That doesn’t really excuse Chelsea’s scouting team not knowing about them though. If the best they can come up with is Silva on a free to support Zouma and Christensen then it’s not a glowing endorsement of their abilities
PSG would not sell us Kimpembe for £120 million and even if they accepted the bid, the player would not make that move. Varane is the same. Mings? Come on, he's a clogger.

Leicester won the league with Morgan and Huth. We won the league with Cahill and Luiz. Zouma & Silva are not a step down from all of those, not a chance.

As for Chelsea scouting team, of course they know about all of the young talent in european football. The club obviously don't think there was anyone available for a decent price out there that was better than Silva, Zouma, Christensen, Rudiger and Tomori. Silva is one of the greatest centre backs of the past decade, it's a fantastic signing on a free.

As for Paul Merson's articles on Sky, i'll have to take your word for that, I don't really care what Paul Merson thinks because, well, he's Paul Merson.
 

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I could give you a long, long list of players who have won PL titles that weren’t regulars in their teams at the time, so just because Zouma has two medals doesn’t convince me he is good enough as a starter week in week out.

I’m the first to admit I don’t watch much European football (especially because Utd haven’t been in the CL that often recently!) but Leipzig might have been tempted by £60m for Upemecano so there’s one. City signed Diaz for £63m from Benfica, looks a good player. There’s Kimpembe and Marquinhos at PSG - might be difficult to prise away but you never know unless you try. Likewise Varane at Madrid. We all know they need a rebuild, would £70m/£80m have tempted them?

In the PL, I’m thinking maybe Tyrone Mings might be worth a go at a top club? Left-footed as well which seems to be in demand.

It’s difficult because as I say, I’m not one of these mad football fans who “supposedly” watches Ajax, Leverkusen, Leipzig, Dortmund, Monaco, Lyon, Porto, Benfica, Schalke etc...very often. Unless they play Utd or another English club in a big European game I’m not going to have seen them play. By the time I am aware of them, they are probably already at a top club. That doesn’t really excuse Chelsea’s scouting team not knowing about them though. If the best they can come up with is Silva on a free to support Zouma and Christensen then it’s not a glowing endorsement of their abilities

Edit: By the way, I’m not just having a go at Chelsea here through some kind of tribalism. I wish you had won the last 6 titles, believe me! One thing I don’t like though is false narratives. I’ve defended Arteta (check post history) and I’ve been a staunch defender of Ole throughout (I started the “Ole in Bridgade thread 12 months ago as evidence). I also really like Klopp and admire his Liverpool side despite me desperately not wanting them to win anything! My problem with Frank and Chelsea is they get an easy ride. Even yesterday, Martin Tyler said something like “Arsenal are dismantling this very good Chelsea side”...are they very good? What’s that based on? Ole gets no credit whatsoever. If we win, it’s luck or down to individuals. If we finish third, it’s because the league was poor that season. If we get to a semi, we should have won the competition. We beat last seasons CL finalist and semi-finalist in this year’s competition, go out by virtue of a bit of naivety and playing some very good sides and we’re in crisis mode.

Frank finishes 4th and you have Paul Merson writing a Sky article about how he should be LMA Manager of the Year!
I just came here to say that Mings is absolutely terrible.