Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

[SirReginald]

Can Chelsea be classified biggest club in London now with 2 CLs won?

Honestly history is nice and all but there’s a lot of historic things lost to time. If we are talking about this moment in time, there’s no doubt we are the biggest club in London. If Arsenal and Chelsea both had a bid accepted for a player tomorrow who is guaranteed to start.. he isn’t going to Arsenal.

What Arsenal are right now is an antique in a shop window, collecting dust on a shelf, long past their glory days. There’s a little sentimental value for fans of football. They’ll stop for a moment glance over and remember when they peaked but then those fans will just continue walking because they live in the present. It’s like pulling out your PS2 for a day but then going back to the PS4/5.

Fact is history shouldn’t be forgotten but it also doesn’t rule the present. Liverpool finally had to understand that before they started winning again.

I am not sure if he is the best owner there is (just looking at what he is doing for/with the club, ignoring where the money comes from) but surely he is the most succesful as no other investor got that amount of titles over the years (not even the City owners, at least until now).

He is without a doubt the best. He went above and beyond last year offering the hotel free of charge to NHS workers amongst other things and this was for the same country that rejected his visa on very flimsy grounds.

Yes he has invested a lot of money into the club but it was not because it was a toy. It was because he is a football fan. He likes to see the team doing well. He doesn’t really intervene in club matters much these days, many managers have said they’ve only briefly spoken to him. Compare that to other owners who pick the team or cause all sorts of problems with FIFA and UEFA.

This guy saved the club, funded the best academy in world football and has overseen the most successful period in the clubs history. You cannot fathom what he means to the supporters and I’d gladly take him over anyone else in football.

 

[Supermonkey_Wolf]

Let's improve our first 11. Go for the league next season.

 

[roonster09]

Liverpool finally had to understand that before they started winning again.

Yeah that was the reason, them prioritizing history was the reason why they weren't winning, nothing to do with hiring a great manager.

There isn't a single club who thinks history is all that matters, that doesn't mean every club can win all the time. It works in cycles and there are lot of factors that should be aligned to win big trophies.

Liverpool tried to win for 30 years and it finally happened when they hired great manager and went to sign few great players. They didn't say "Ah feck winning, we have rich history" when they couldn't win the league for 30 years.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Loan army for this season already started with tomori for 28 mil
This added too the other loanees and squad players who will be sold I wouldn't be surprised if we recoup at least 100 mil.

Moses for 6 too

 

[Pow]

Moses for 6 too

34 mil and counting.

 

[Zaphod2319]

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[Zaphod2319]

I am not sure why you would put Ziyech in this graphic.

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[ZolaWasMagic]

34 mil and counting.

Its severely underestimated just how much we have to spend this summer. Its so easy to say "they cant spend X because they spent 200m+ last summer" So wrong.

Simon Johnson in the Athletic [and i think Matt Law may have mentioned it too, although im not 100% on the latter,] claims there is at least 200m available to Tuchel

 

[awop]

I am not sure why you would put Ziyech in this graphic.

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He only had 17 players to choose from to be fair...

 

[Dave Smith]

Its severely underestimated just how much we have to spend this summer. Its so easy to say "they cant spend X because they spent 200m+ last summer" So wrong.

Simon Johnson in the Athletic [and i think Matt Law may have mentioned it too, although im not 100% on the latter,] claims there is at least 200m available to Tuchel

Yeah, weren't the rumours Chelsea were going to go big again before their end of season run. I remember reading something in The Athletic that last Summers spend was just the first part, with this Summer being the just as big or near enough. That is also before Chelsea ranked in all the CL money.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out however, as Chelsea's biggest needs are in two areas were it is almost impossible to get hold of top quality players (CF and CM/DM.) Will need to be careful not to blow it on a dud if they can't get their 1st/2nd choice.

 

[WeePat]

Yeah, weren't the rumours Chelsea were going to go big again before their end of season run. I remember reading something in The Athletic that last Summers spend was just the first part, with this Summer being the just as big or near enough. That is also before Chelsea ranked in all the CL money.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out however, as Chelsea's biggest needs are in two areas were it is almost impossible to get hold of top quality players (CF and CM/DM.) Will need to be careful not to blow it on a dud if they can't get their 1st/2nd choice.

I'd honestly 100% prefer to run it back with the same team without any additions than take a punt on a 3rd or 4th choice target. OK we can't get Haaland, Kane or Lukaku? Cool. Let's stick with Werner and Havertz. That's how we ended up with Emerson, for example. Spent so long trying to land Alex Sandro. Didn't happen. Enquired about Alaba. Laughed out of the room. Settled for Emerson in the end, who was briefly fancied by Sarri, but otherwise been a waste of money and we're still struggling to find him a buyer.

 

[Pow]

I'd honestly 100% prefer to run it back with the same team without any additions than take a punt on a 3rd or 4th choice target. OK we can't get Haaland, Kane or Lukaku? Cool. Let's stick with Werner and Havertz. That's how we ended up with Emerson, for example. Spent so long trying to land Alex Sandro. Didn't happen. Enquired about Alaba. Laughed out of the room. Settled for Emerson in the end, who was briefly fancied by Sarri, but otherwise been a waste of money and we're still struggling to find him a buyer.

No. Get a top striker.

 

[WeePat]

No. Get a top striker.

Read the post again mate.

 

[Zehner]

I'd honestly 100% prefer to run it back with the same team without any additions than take a punt on a 3rd or 4th choice target. OK we can't get Haaland, Kane or Lukaku? Cool. Let's stick with Werner and Havertz. That's how we ended up with Emerson, for example. Spent so long trying to land Alex Sandro. Didn't happen. Enquired about Alaba. Laughed out of the room. Settled for Emerson in the end, who was briefly fancied by Sarri, but otherwise been a waste of money and we're still struggling to find him a buyer.

That would 100% my attitude as a Chelsea fan as well. You have excellent depth and first team quality. Two players up front who already proved that they are capable of very good goal records. Bringing in a striker would definitely require adjusting the attacking patterns - of course somebody of Kane's quality would be worth that but I'd have mixed feelings to fit e. g. Lukaku in there due to the risk of messing something up that's working well. Especially since Werner is actually the exact same type of player Tuchel favored at PSG and Dortmund.

It's a luxury position you're in and I'd go for luxury players. You know who I have in mind

 

[WeePat]

That would 100% my attitude as a Chelsea fan as well. You have excellent depth and first team quality. Two players up front who already proved that they are capable of very good goal records. Bringing in a striker would definitely require adjusting the attacking patterns - of course somebody of Kane's quality would be worth that but I'd have mixed feelings to fit e. g. Lukaku in there due to the risk of messing something up that's working well. Especially since Werner is actually the exact same type of player Tuchel favored at PSG and Dortmund.

It's a luxury position you're in and I'd go for luxury players. You know who I have in mind

Yeah I'm wary of messing with Havertz's development as it is, even if the possibly of landing someone like Kane or Haaland was there. We've invested a lot into him and it seems like he's going to play up front mostly for Tuchel. He's such a unique player, immensely talented and I want to facilitate that development as much as possible.

Of course I won't bemoan the arrival of the elite strikers mentioned above, but if we can't get them, I don't see any point in looking for alternative, less talented, targets.

Lukaku could be used like Werner, but again, I'm inclined to keep faith in Werner next season. Obviously another season of zero confidence in front of goal would be terrible, but this season is the clear outlier in his career, so I'd be happy to wait and see with him.

I'd love to get Sancho. Netflix could make a lot of money live streaming the reaction to that in the Sancho thread.

 

[432JuanMata]

I might get disagreed with here but we need a big summer even though we finished 2nd I feel Chelsea and Liverpool(who finished 3rd after a horror season) have better squads than us and we will struggle to stay ahead of them without serious investment. They both underperformed for the 1st half the season and still got top 4 and yet while we cruised 2nd I feel both of them are better equipped to challenge for the league than us now.

We need 200m budget plus players that leave to get a RW, CDM, CB and maybe 1 more player and they have to be high quality or I think we will go backwards

 

[Dave Smith]

I might get disagreed with here but we need a big summer even though we finished 2nd I feel Chelsea and Liverpool(who finished 3rd after a horror season) have better squads than us and we will struggle to stay ahead of them without serious investment. They both underperformed for the 1st half the season and still got top 4 and yet while we cruised 2nd I feel both of them are better equipped to challenge for the league than us now.

We need 200m budget plus players that leave to get a RW, CDM, CB and maybe 1 more player and they have to be high quality or I think we will go backwards

I think Chelsea would be an issue if they got a top CF but I just do not see where they get one from. Kane is a no go, Dortmund aren't selling Haaland, Lukaku looks like BS and is staying anyway (plus he isn't that good), Lewa is never leaving Bayern. Therefore, I think they may still have an issue scoring goals next year unless they pluck someone like Silva out of Frankfurt and he can step up (not sure he can.)

As for the Dippers I think they will get top 4 next season but not sure how much longer this team has got. Their front three are aging out, no one knows what condition VVD is in and Henderson, Tiago and Wijnaldum (if he stays) are also all over 30.

 

[432JuanMata]

I think Chelsea would be an issue if they got a top CF but I just do not see where they get one from. Kane is a no go, Dortmund aren't selling Haaland, Lukaku looks like BS and is staying anyway (plus he isn't that good), Lewa is never leaving Bayern. Therefore, I think they may still have an issue scoring goals next year unless they pluck someone like Silva out of Frankfurt and he can step up (not sure he can.)

As for the Dippers I think they will get top 4 next season but not sure how much longer this team has got. Their front three are aging out, no one knows what condition VVD is in and Henderson, Tiago and Wijnaldum (if he stays) are also all over 30.

Yeah I agree Chelsea do lack a top ST and Liverpool’s squad is getting older we have serious issues in our squad too and even when everyone is fit our bench looks average at best. Though Cavani has been successful he will be 34. We have no RW what so ever, we have no DM and seriously need another CB.

With that in mind yes Chelsea need a top ST that is only 1 player we need 3-4 starting players to fix and balance our side. I hope we have a big summer

 

[WeePat]

I might get disagreed with here but we need a big summer even though we finished 2nd I feel Chelsea and Liverpool(who finished 3rd after a horror season) have better squads than us and we will struggle to stay ahead of them without serious investment. They both underperformed for the 1st half the season and still got top 4 and yet while we cruised 2nd I feel both of them are better equipped to challenge for the league than us now.

We need 200m budget plus players that leave to get a RW, CDM, CB and maybe 1 more player and they have to be high quality or I think we will go backwards

Sancho, Rice and Pau Torres. That's roughly £200m and would likely catapult United to title contenders.

 

[Zehner]

Sancho, Rice and Pau Torres. That's roughly £200m and would likely catapult United to title contenders.

I don't believe this would be enough. United already has a very good team with some real gems in it. Before Tuchel took over, many - including some Chelsea fans - believed United's starting eleven was better than Chelsea's. Good coaching has a very real impact on the perception of individual players.

So nothing against Solskjaer but he's not going to beat Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel when they have teams on eye level or even slightly below that. Maybe one or two of them slip with their teams like Liverpool this season but not all three of the bunch.

I know that sounds a bit harsh on Solskjaer but I think he's generally doing a good job rebuilding the team. He's just unlucky that three of the world's best coaches are currently in charge of his biggest domestic competitors.

 

[Rajiztar]

I don't believe this would be enough. United already has a very good team with some real gems in it. Before Tuchel took over, many - including some Chelsea fans - believed United's starting eleven was better than Chelsea's. Good coaching has a very real impact on the perception of individual players.

So nothing against Solskjaer but he's not going to beat Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel when they have teams on eye level or even slightly below that. Maybe one or two of them slip with their teams like Liverpool this season but not all three of the bunch.

I know that sounds a bit harsh on Solskjaer but I think he's generally doing a good job rebuilding the team. He's just unlucky that three of the world's best coaches are currently in charge of his biggest domestic competitors.

I know what you are implying.But ole deserved his chance. He performed well against big teams in his tenure. The only undoing for united this season was his team s performance against poor teams.

For that he need a bigger squad in my opinion. May be next season should be the one he will be judged. He did more than enough to hold on his position as man utd manager.

 

[Pow]

Yeah I'm wary of messing with Havertz's development as it is, even if the possibly of landing someone like Kane or Haaland was there. We've invested a lot into him and it seems like he's going to play up front mostly for Tuchel. He's such a unique player, immensely talented and I want to facilitate that development as much as possible.

Of course I won't bemoan the arrival of the elite strikers mentioned above, but if we can't get them, I don't see any point in looking for alternative, less talented, targets.

Lukaku could be used like Werner, but again, I'm inclined to keep faith in Werner next season. Obviously another season of zero confidence in front of goal would be terrible, but this season is the clear outlier in his career, so I'd be happy to wait and see with him.

I'd love to get Sancho. Netflix could make a lot of money live streaming the reaction to that in the Sancho thread.

He just played his best game in a CL final off the right. A striker is a must.

 

[Rajiztar]

Yeah I agree Chelsea do lack a top ST and Liverpool’s squad is getting older we have serious issues in our squad too and even when everyone is fit our bench looks average at best. Though Cavani has been successful he will be 34. We have no RW what so ever, we have no DM and seriously need another CB.

With that in mind yes Chelsea need a top ST that is only 1 player we need 3-4 starting players to fix and balance our side. I hope we have a big summer

We need one striker one midfielder one defender and one winger. It's all about squad now except for striker. Brojo will be in squad who tuchel personally want to work with.

I know brojo is very very young but rumours to be believed tuchel vetoed two loan options already for the kid. He is strong pacy and good technique in close control. And want to include him in squad and pre season he will get the chances to impress.

Striker-werner,Giroud,havertz,brojo

A.mid/winger-mount,ziyech,pulisic,cho,one more

Central mid-kante,jorginho,kovasic,Billy,one more

Defense- azpi,rudiger,Silva,Christensen,zouma,Reece,chilwell,two more may be three.

If tuchel think brojo,livramento,Barkley,Loftus cheek and Gallagher enough for squad option then Chelsea will go all out for one super star striker. Will be an interesting summer with tuchel sit on 200mn to improve squad.

 

[UweBein]

Can Chelsea be classified biggest club in London now with 2 CLs won? I know they won most of their trophies after Abramovich took over but when you look at European trophies, they had more success than Arsenal even before 2003. Domestically though Arsenal have won much more. 29 to 19 domestic trophies won, 13 to 6 leagues and 14 to 8 FA cups.

Honestly, I am not a fan of such discussions. Like, it does not matter which club is the biggest in... (who is the best player and so on...)
For me though it seems that Spurs and Arsenal still feel like bigger clubs. Chelsea's success in the last 20 years has been kind of unreal... I would not complain if it continues that way.

 

[UweBein]

Let's improve our first 11. Go for the league next season.

Ideally 1-2 new starters, yes. But easier said than done that.
We've got the most players at Euro 2020, hence hour squad will be very tired cometh the next season.

Its severely underestimated just how much we have to spend this summer. Its so easy to say "they cant spend X because they spent 200m+ last summer" So wrong.

Simon Johnson in the Athletic [and i think Matt Law may have mentioned it too, although im not 100% on the latter,] claims there is at least 200m available to Tuchel

We might benefit spending big this summer, because prices won't be on all-time-high. But, you still have to make the right calls. It's difficult to buy players.

I might get disagreed with here but we need a big summer even though we finished 2nd I feel Chelsea and Liverpool(who finished 3rd after a horror season) have better squads than us and we will struggle to stay ahead of them without serious investment. They both underperformed for the 1st half the season and still got top 4 and yet while we cruised 2nd I feel both of them are better equipped to challenge for the league than us now.

We need 200m budget plus players that leave to get a RW, CDM, CB and maybe 1 more player and they have to be high quality or I think we will go backwards

Yes, that might be very well the case, City, United and Liverpool definitely have the potential to improve next season. We have to make sure that we can keep up with them.

 

[Rajiztar]

Well halland come into shopping window with price tag of £175 mn. With his agent fees and weekly wages it must be around minimum £350-£400mn package. Who will going to buy him? Definitely not chelsea in my honest opinion.Psg may be if they have to sell mbappe.

 

[UweBein]

The boy does have a fixed fee, doesn't he?

 

[stefan92]

The boy does have a fixed fee, doesn't he?

Apparently only next summer, not this window.

 

[Dave Smith]

If City end up with Kane I am going to stick my neck out and say it will be a bun fight between Utd v Chelsea v Bayern for Håland in 2022. Real and Barca will have to wait until 2025-27 as I can't see them having the finances next year, while I also suspect Mbappe will run his contract down and Real will snap him up next year.

 

[Pow]

If City end up with Kane I am going to stick my neck out and say it will be a bun fight between Utd v Chelsea v Bayern for Håland in 2022. Real and Barca will have to wait until 2025-27 as I can't see them having the finances next year, while I also suspect Mbappe will run his contract down and Real will snap him up next year.

No point getting in bidding war next year when we have a clear run at him now. A 100 odd mil bid or even players plus cash would turn their heads. He's worth the money.

 

[Rajiztar]

No point getting in bidding war next year when we have a clear run at him now. A 100 odd mil bid or even players plus cash would turn their heads. He's worth the money.

I am sick of signing over the odd price type players. Even halland looked like value for money type with our luck I don't see him score more than 10 in his first season if he ever signed for us.

With that comes unnecessary pressure for whole team and manager to play into his strengths. If tuchel wants him then no problem but board s signing then i hope he won't become liability.

 

[WeePat]

I am sick of signing over the odd price type players. Even halland looked like value for money type with our luck I don't see him score more than 10 in his first season if he ever signed for us.

With that comes unnecessary pressure for whole team and manager to play into his strengths. If tuchel wants him then no problem but board s signing then i hope he won't become liability.

I'm inclined to agree. The figures involved are eyewatering, and as much people might proclaim that you're paying for the sure thing with Haaland, nothing is ever certain. Spending £150m or more on one player doesn't seem like a good use of resources to me. We've invested a lot into Havertz and Werner, and it's only been one season. The more I think about it the more I just want to stay away from buying a new striker and just run it back with those two next season.

 

[Pow]

I'm inclined to agree. The figures involved are eyewatering, and as much people might proclaim that you're paying for the sure thing with Haaland, nothing is ever certain. Spending £150m or more on one player doesn't seem like a good use of resources to me. We've invested a lot into Havertz and Werner, and it's only been one season. The more I think about it the more I just want to stay away from buying a new striker and just run it back with those two next season.

No thanks. Go watch their seasons again. A new cf is a must.

 

[WeePat]

No thanks. Go watch their seasons again. A new cf is a must.

It really isn't a must, but we've already established that we don't agree on this.

 

[Gringo]

No thanks. Go watch their seasons again. A new cf is a must.

Sensible options are out there. Patrick Bamford amongst others that won't break the bank. But with Giroud signing an extension. Looks like it's going to be Werner, Havertz and Giroud as the three CF.

 

[Pow]

It really isn't a must, but we've already established that we don't agree on this.

It absolutely is a must. With tammy likely to go (and even giroud who can still leave despite the new deal)
Neither of them have shown anywhere near enough to just persist and hope they will suddenly score a bucket loads. Would be shooting ourselves in the foot to not go and get a top 9.

Sensible options are out there. Patrick Bamford amongst others that won't break the bank. But with Giroud signing an extension. Looks like it's going to be Werner, Havertz and Giroud as the three CF.

Giroud can still go.
Both havertz and werner cover wide positions we still need a 9.
And we need to aim higher than Bamford.

 

[Dancfc]

I am sick of signing over the odd price type players. Even halland looked like value for money type with our luck I don't see him score more than 10 in his first season if he ever signed for us.

With that comes unnecessary pressure for whole team and manager to play into his strengths. If tuchel wants him then no problem but board s signing then i hope he won't become liability.

I'm inclined to agree. The figures involved are eyewatering, and as much people might proclaim that you're paying for the sure thing with Haaland, nothing is ever certain. Spending £150m or more on one player doesn't seem like a good use of resources to me. We've invested a lot into Havertz and Werner, and it's only been one season. The more I think about it the more I just want to stay away from buying a new striker and just run it back with those two next season.

Yep my big worry is we lose the fluidity we've slowly been building up and become a worse team for it. For example Bayern improved ten fold when they dropped Mario Gomez despite him offering one goal a game. Lukaku especially would put us back to square one on that score, even with Haaland I can't help but worry about the fact BVB are a worse overall team with him despite his unreal personal records.

Theoretically we need Werner, Mount, Pulisic, Havertz and Ziyech (possibly add CHO to that aswell) to average a 5 goal improvement each and we effectively have numbers of a new striker, for me that's easily doable.

If anything my preference is getting someone like Sancho (with Ziyech making way) as opposed to going down the out and out striker route, that type is dying out.

 

[Mb194dc]

Ronaldo might be available. It sounds ridiculous but for a season it could make sense. Then looking at longer term option next summer. Can't believe we won't at least enquire with Mendes..., we have a pretty decent relationship with him.

CR main motivation is winning the CL and of course the individual awards that go with it. Aren't many better options for him I can see? London would suit his lifestyle too, if not locked down of course.

 

[Rajiztar]

Yep my big worry is we lose the fluidity we've slowly been building up and become a worse team for it. For example Bayern improved ten fold when they dropped Mario Gomez despite him offering one goal a game. Lukaku especially would put us back to square one on that score, even with Haaland I can't help but worry about the fact BVB are a worse overall team with him despite his unresl personal records.

Theoretically we need Werner, Mount, Pulisic, Havertz and Ziyech (possibly add CHO to that aswell) to average a 5 goal improvement each and we effectively have numbers of a new striker, for me that's easily doable.

If anything my preference is getting someone like Sancho (with Ziyech making way) as opposed to going down the out and out striker route, that type is dying out.

Rumour is Chelsea board will not approve any signing to harm the development of havertz. If the rumour is true then chelsea won't sign big striker with huge amount.

Tuchel will get midfielder and winger in my opinion. If Tammy goes one striker who can play second fiddle to havertz/Werner combo.

 

[Dave Smith]

Rumour is Chelsea board will not approve any signing to harm the development of havertz. If the rumour is true then chelsea won't sign big striker with huge amount.

Tuchel will get midfielder and winger in my opinion. If Tammy goes one striker who can play second fiddle to havertz/Werner combo.

Andre Silva?