Very surprised we didn't go all out for this. We need a CM more than they do!
Chelsea 2021/22 - World and European Champions
- Thread starter duffer
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You can think one and not the other. See his left arm moving throughout his motion. When you try and reposition your feet and especially your knee to block the ball, your arms are going to move a bit too. He's not some superhuman who can shift his body to block the ball whilst his arms stay completely beside/behind his torso. Not intentional imo - penalty but not a red. Anyhoo it didn't matter as Liverpool could't win the game.
Even if it’s unintentional (I think he panicked after it hits his leg and instinctively moved his arm to block the ball), it’s still a red card based on the current rules.
Name one other situation where a player has blocked a certain goal with his arm/hand (intentionally or unintentionally) and has avoided a straight red card?
Yeah there's no risk to this deal. He either regains his form from a couple of years ago and we get to buy him for around £30m or he doesn't and he goes back to Atleti in 12 months. In the meantime, we have adequate cover in case Kante gets injured, which he does pretty often these days.
Aren't the rules that it should be deemed to be deliberate? If it was just a natural movement of the arm whilst moving his body then it isn't a red. I don't know about other incidents but if this is how they're giving out reds in general, it should be re-looked at.
Yeah I just don't get our reluctance. If not a holding midfielder, if he fit well, he could have replaced Matic, Mctominay or Fred as a good upgrade in a years time. I wasn't sure about Saul as a permanent signing as I think we need more of a passer than box to box, but as a loan, it was definitely worth it.
It could be the wages. He's reportedly on about £200k a week and Chelsea are covering every last penny of it. That might have been what stopped United from getting involved. If it's not that, I don't understand the reluctance either. You definitely had a bigger need for him than we did. Might have to unchain VDB and bring him out of Ole's cellar now.
His arm moves after the ball first hit it after deflecting off his thigh.
His arm is definitely by his side in a natural position at that point.
For deflected off own body handballs where arm is in a natural position, referees are instructed to not give it as handball.
After the ball hits his arm he moves it forward. At that point the ball won't go in he's not there.
You could say it's handball in the second instance as his arm moves forward. The ball is already going away from goal at that point.
It's not an easy one. The referee had a good view and didn't give it originally.
He should have at least watched the full incident on the screen a couple of times.
So to answer your question, yes there are those people.
His arm is down his side when the ball impacts his knee, his arm then flings out making contact with the ball stopping a certain goal
Straight pen
Straight red
I actually thought it was a harsh red to begin with and was actually a little shocked when the red was given, however the footage shown above proves the red card decision to be absolutely correct.
It was a blatant obstruction of a goal with his arm.
It was a panic reaction and unfortunately for him, a red card action.
Red was harsh for me but the rules are the rules.
I do think it’s a bit extreme for the rules to be no pen if the ball hits your leg and then your arm in the box now but to then go to a Pen and Red every time if it happens on the goal line. A yellow card does seem fairer in that instance but that’s more of a gripe with the rules rather than the referee decision. From no pen to a pen and a red just based on proximity to the goal line seems too big of jump for me.
I don't think ref gave penalty because it was on the goal line, James moves to arm to push the ball that's why it was a penalty. Then the "Denied obvious goal scoring opportunity" thing kicks in. If James didn't push the ball with his hand after the ball stuck his hand, it wouldn't have been a penalty.
The ball is going backwards towards the goal to me, hence the red card.
The ball very clearly starts moving away from goal when it first hits his arm after the deflection and before he moves his arm at all. 3rd repay from the side in video above.
It would have gone in if it didn't hit his arm at first point of contact, that is true. As I said, his arm was in a natural position when the ball first hits it, and the ball deflected off another body part. So by the advice the referees are given, it's not a hand ball at that point. If he can freeze like statue at that point too, the ball can't go in as moving away from goal.
If Taylor watched the replay properly, he can't give a penalty for that.
Maybe for the forward movement of his arm afterwards.
So what you are saying is that (in live speed), the ball strikes his thigh and then in the 0.05 seconds before it crosses the line, he has time to adjust and deliberately handle the ball??
There is no deliberate action at the time of the first contact with his arm and they're in a natural position. At that point, by the laws, it's not a 'handball offence' and not a red. The scoop action after is a tough one but I feel harsh to give it a red considering the initial contact was inadvertent.
Of course
In quick time its called anticipation
and he got it all wrong, his movement and body adjustments, hence a penalty and red card
it’s all in the footage
ridiculous take aside, it's not in the footage. There is no 'anticipation' or unnatural movement of his arm at the point of initial contact with the ball.I heard someone say recently on a podcast that they should change it to a goal if the ball is deemed to be definitely going in without the intervention of the offending player. No red card, maybe yellow for deliberate handball. But the other team gets a goal from it.
Chelsea and Atletico Madrid have a surprisingly high number of players who have played for both clubs in the last 20 years.
Hasselbaink
Gronkjaer
Tiago
Kezman
Torres
Courtois
Diego Costa
Felipe Luis
Falcao
Morata
Saul
Probably no more than 3 of them can say they played great for both clubs.
Hasselbaink
Gronkjaer
Tiago
Kezman
Torres
Courtois
Diego Costa
Felipe Luis
Falcao
Morata
Saul
Probably no more than 3 of them can say they played great for both clubs.
Are the three:
Courtios
Costa (if you do his first AM stint)
Hasselbaink?
Problem I see with that list is that some of those players were clearly brought by Atleti as squad players (Tiago, Kezman, Gronkjear) and I would argue Tiago and Kezman were also brought by Chelsea as squad players. You then have Falcao and Torres who were, to differing degrees, destroyed by injuries. Only flops, without excuses, I would say would be Morata and Luis for Chelsea and Costa for Atleti on the 2nd stint.
I wasn't trying to besmirch any of the players. Even Felipe Luis I'd argue just wasn't given enough of a chance by Mourinho.
But yeah, just Hasselbaink, Costa and T-bo.
Saul will make it top 4
Hope so. Apparently he's dealt with some medical issues, kidney, liver etc and I read somewhere that there was depression at some point, which could somewhat explain his drop in form the last couple of years, the need for a change of scenery.Saul will make it top 4
Just ignore it. It’s a penalty for sure but in real time it’s way to quick for him to even think about beating the ball away with his hand. He panicked and that resulted in the jerk motion of the arm. Wasn’t intentional, wasn’t pre-planned. It was purely speed and inexperience.
The fact that the incident has divided fans of all teams only tells you that it was harsh, though correct as per the rules. I would just like them to review this at some point during or after the season to at least consider clarifying the rule and make it less controversial. For most other penalty incidents they advise refs to give the penalty and avoid punishing the team further with a red unless absolutely necessary. It isn’t so much to ask the same for that incident.
Now Chelsea have mindblowing bench: Kepa, Silva, Alonso, Chalobah, Kovacic, Saul, Hudson-Odoi, Pulisic, Ziyech, Werner. Each of them can play in the starting XI. I think this factor will be decisive in the PL racing. So only MC have similar squad depth.
United have very good depth too, just light in midfield.
It was reported by several sources that there was a verbal agreement on price between the clubs and Sevilla raised it at the last minute. I don't know what to make of it?
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Seems like he took his anger out on poor Kolasinac last night.
I don't think he was ever playing the ball on that tackle.
I thought the same, it was really nasty.
Roman may be forced to sell Chelsea.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/chelsea-news-roman-abramovich-chelsea-16893460
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/chelsea-news-roman-abramovich-chelsea-16893460
That is from 3 years ago...?
It's also the daily star..
Well…….someone didn’t read the article thoroughly….
Who's gonna tell @Zaphod2319 that the Titanic sank? Poor boy's in for a shock.
I guess I am never going to get a refund now!! Still trying to get a refund on my flight from Paris to London that got Covided and then the company went out of business.
Not sure what's more worrying, that he's reading years old stuff or that he reads the Daily Star!
I blame Twitter for scraping the bottom of the barrel for Chelsea related tweets during the international break.
Daily Star. Reading years old stuff is proof he has half a brain. Daily Star is proof he has no brain at all!
(just kidding Zaphod)
Well if he lives long enough, he might just get to live through the Hoddle, Gullit years though to Mourinho 1.0. Lucky bastard.
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