Chelsea 2021/22 - Tommy Tuchel's Title Test?

DWelbz19

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Of all the big teams, Chelsea have the most players this summer they can potentially let go to rake in some big money. Abraham, Tomori, Emerson, Giroud, Ziyech, and Hudson-Odoi (from most to least likely) is a list of players I can easily see Chelsea getting £100m+ for.
 

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Chelsea seem to be the one club with the unique ability to change manager frequently and at any point and still be successful that same season/next season. Suppose they're used to it now but seems like everyone else (us especially) needs 3 year 'rebuilding' periods.
 

duffer

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Of all the big teams, Chelsea have the most players this summer they can potentially let go to rake in some big money. Abraham, Tomori, Emerson, Giroud, Ziyech, and Hudson-Odoi (from most to least likely) is a list of players I can easily see Chelsea getting £100m+ for.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see any (or all) of them go.


We've also go a ton of the "loan army" to come back and get sorted. Barkley, Batshuayi, RLC, Guehi, Gallagher and Ampadu are notable ones who we couold get money for.
 

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A bit too early, and you never know with transfers, but as things stand, I expect them to be the United of next season. Comfortably the second best behind City.

Having said that, it wouldn’t be a huge shock if they actually win the title. Mean defence and a lot of creative players in the team means they can go on long runs of narrow wins. They would still be reliant on City wobbling (like early in 2020/2021).
 

jetlee

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There is no chance that this guy wins PL with Chelsea even if they spend another 300 million. In the cups however they will remain huge performers I think.
I'm more worried about Liverpool than them.
 

stefan92

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Chelsea seem to be the one club with the unique ability to change manager frequently and at any point and still be successful that same season/next season. Suppose they're used to it now but seems like everyone else (us especially) needs 3 year 'rebuilding' periods.
That's what happens when you are quite good at building a squad and than just sign coaches that can (and have to) work with this squad. Chelsea don't build squads for managers and therefore never need to "rebuild" as a manager likes to play his preferred playing style. Definitely difficult to stay there for a long time as a coach, but it pays off when you don't let your club's playing style dictated by a particular manager. That works well if you have a world class manager like SAF, Wenger (for a long time) or Pep, but it isn't worth it for most managers on the market.
 

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They need some attacking star players IMO. Hakimi would be fit in perfectly for them but they definitely need a striker, and figure out what they want to do behind him. They have decent attacking options but apart from Mount, none of them consistently starring every game or locked in. Jorginho and Kante as a pair probably set with Kovacic a 3rd guy and Mount also capable there, and the back 5 is pretty sorted I'd guess.

If they actually managed to sign Haaland along with Hakimi then I'd say they would be up there with City as favourites for the league.
 

DWelbz19

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That's what happens when you are quite good at building a squad and than just sign coaches that can (and have to) work with this squad. Chelsea don't build squads for managers and therefore never need to "rebuild" as a manager likes to play his preferred playing style. Definitely difficult to stay there for a long time as a coach, but it pays off when you don't let your club's playing style dictated by a particular manager. That works well if you have a world class manager like SAF, Wenger (for a long time) or Pep, but it isn't worth it for most managers on the market.
They have a ruthlessness that other clubs just don't have too, in relation to their own players. The likes of Abraham, Tomori, Hudson Odoi et al. (and equivalents before them) are good level players. Are they good enough to be in the squad? Most certainly. Are they good enough to be in the first team to compete for titles? Ehh... And that's why they'll happily boot them for good money, whilst some other clubs are much more likely to retain those types of players for a lot longer.

Makes it easier on their revolving door managers to do their thing.
 

Powderfinger

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By xg they were neck-and-neck with City during Tuchel's time at the club. They were really really good.

I think they will challenge for the title as long as they bring in a couple important players this summer.

The biggest question for me is whether opponents are able to figure out better ways to deal with Tuchel's 3-4-2-1 setup and then whether he sticks with that or evolves into something different. IMO, Chelsea is a talented team that was also able to play a little above their talent level because they had a system that gave other squads a lot of trouble. We've seen a few times in recent years that a club will find a system that really gives opposing managers a ton of problems, but then eventually opponents are able to figure it out and neutralize some of those advantages.

Second big question is health. This is key for any team of course but they have a number of key players in their spine on the wrong side of 30 (Kante, Thiago Silva, Azpi, Jorginho in December) and so injury risk is probably a bit higher for them. Kante in particular is so important and hard to replace. Their three league losses down the stretch were all matches he didn't play.
 
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TheMagicFoolBus

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That's what happens when you are quite good at building a squad and than just sign coaches that can (and have to) work with this squad. Chelsea don't build squads for managers and therefore never need to "rebuild" as a manager likes to play his preferred playing style. Definitely difficult to stay there for a long time as a coach, but it pays off when you don't let your club's playing style dictated by a particular manager. That works well if you have a world class manager like SAF, Wenger (for a long time) or Pep, but it isn't worth it for most managers on the market.
I think one thing Chelsea have done that's perhaps ahead of the curve compared to other English clubs is they've very clearly established the power structure - especially in the wake of Mourinho's second stint which ultimately was a colossal setback in terms of talent drain. Separating the role of head coach and manager makes a lot of sense in the modern game - things are so sophisticated now that trying to do both jobs seems like a good way to half-arse both (see Arsenal FC).

Reportedly a big part of the reason Lampard was sacked was that he kept trying to do the job of manager - e.g. pestering the board over signings (especially Rice) to the point where it was compromising his position.
 

stefan92

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They have a ruthlessness that other clubs just don't have too, in relation to their own players. The likes of Abraham, Tomori, Hudson Odoi et al. (and equivalents before them) are good level players. Are they good enough to be in the squad? Most certainly. Are they good enough to be in the first team to compete for titles? Ehh... And that's why they'll happily boot them for good money, whilst some other clubs are much more likely to retain those types of players for a lot longer.

Makes it easier on their revolving door managers to do their thing.
That's a point as well, they rarely allow players to become "deadwood" without any transfer value while still getting high wages, they try to sell them early when their quality is still obvious to the buying clubs so that those are willing to pay a reasonable transfer fee for them.
 

galcianuk

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That's a point as well, they rarely allow players to become "deadwood" without any transfer value while still getting high wages, they try to sell them early when their quality is still obvious to the buying clubs so that those are willing to pay a reasonable transfer fee for them.
I mean we have loads of players we can't get rid of. Barkely, Drinkwater, Batshuayi, Emerson, Moses (just this window gone), Van Ginkel (just this window gone), Zappacosta, Bakayoko etc. List is endless.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see any (or all) of them go.


We've also go a ton of the "loan army" to come back and get sorted. Barkley, Batshuayi, RLC, Guehi, Gallagher and Ampadu are notable ones who we couold get money for.
Drinkwater should bring in a couple of quid haha, Kenedy, £34m ish already brought in via Tomori and Moses.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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If anyone can guess our starting XI for the 1st premier league game, I will be impressed.
Not a clue

But if it ended with Haaland and Hakimi coming in for example

it'd be title winning, so long as they performed
 

ZolaWasMagic

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There is no chance that this guy wins PL with Chelsea even if they spend another 300 million. In the cups however they will remain huge performers I think.
I'm more worried about Liverpool than them.
If you dont think he can win the league with us, with a clinical striker, like a Haaland or Kane [examples], you're nuts.

If you'd stuck Kane in our side last season, we'd have been right up City's backside i reckon
 

jetlee

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@ZolaWasMagic Yeah, I don't think so, Chelsea is a striker's graveyard and Tuchel is just flavor of the month.
He was nowhere near with Dortmund as well when he was coaching them and something similar to winning the league with Dortmund is needed to stop Pep and City.
In the cups however he can do good stuff. Whether it is enough for Roman we will see.
 

Crustanoid

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Plastic feckers. Nothing they ever do warrants any credibility ever. 50% responsible for the complete devaluation of English football.
 

BlueDutch

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Plastic feckers. Nothing they ever do warrants any credibility ever. 50% responsible for the complete devaluation of English football.
United have spent a lot more than Chelsea in recent years. Maybe look first at what your own club has done wrong instead of being frustrated at other clubs.
 

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Second big question is health. This is key for any team of course but they have a number of key players in their spine on the wrong side of 30 (Kante, Thiago Silva, Azpi, Jorginho in December) and so injury risk is probably a bit higher for them. Kante in particular is so important and hard to replace. Their three league losses down the stretch were all matches he didn't play.
Silva was only ever a short term injection of quality and we'll get another decent year out of him playing half the time if we're fortunate. By then it should be clear whether the younger CB lads are strong enough or whether we need a new top level guy. Azpi has been great, but I think with James coming through so strongly we can live with the loss when it comes. Jorghino I think is fairly replacable, he's good but its an area we could strength in my opinion. Kante is the really irreplaceable one, I have no idea how you'd even start trying to find someone to fill his boots. Really hoping he stays fit and sharp for at least 2 more years.
 

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Not worried about Chelsea next year much, they will be better but not sure they'll be able to jump 20-25 points to win the league. However, and I have said this a couple of times, but I am worried about them long term. I mean look at this potential line-up:

Mendy (29)

James (21) Christensen (24) Rudiger (27)

Hakimi (21) Kante (30) Kovacic (27) Chilwell (24)

Mount (22) Havertz (21)

Haaland (21)

Bench: Kepa (27), Azpilicueta (32), Jorginho (29), Gilmour (19), CHO (20), Pulisic (22), Werner (25)

Average age of squad: 24.5
Average age of outfield players: 22.5

That is a pretty insane side to only have an average age of 24.5 or 22.5 with their outfield players. Only issue they may have in the medium to long term is CM, but even then they have Gilmour coming through who is 19 sitting on the bench and that is before you also get to their loan army that includes players like Ampadu and Guehi who are both only 20.

I recognise I have left Silva out but I do not think that is too crazy of an omission since he was injured for a significant period of their run in.

For me if they get Hakimi and Haaland, the worry isn't next season but rather them pulling some dynasty sh*t.
 

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Sacked by Christmas after a monumental bust but, hey boy, what a run it was :lol:

Chelsea very clearly the best of the rest (in terms of ‘eritage, you know…), again.
 

stefan92

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@ZolaWasMagic Yeah, I don't think so, Chelsea is a striker's graveyard and Tuchel is just flavor of the month.
He was nowhere near with Dortmund as well when he was coaching them and something similar to winning the league with Dortmund is needed to stop Pep and City.
That is not doing him justice. His best season at Dortmund got them 78 points - the second highest they ever got in their history (only Klopp's second title was a better season at 81), and in several of the last seasons 78 would have been enough to beat Bayern, just not in that year. So I don't think he was miles away from winning the league. And Chelsea is much closer to City in squad quality then Dortmund was to Bayern I believe.

6 months after, it's title test

Ole 2.5 years after, next year we expect progress at least top 4 and a minor trophies
And this seems to come from a Chelsea fan. Sad to see how much the ambitions of United have gone down in comparison to them, should be the other way round looking at both clubs history, but here we are...
 

Bebestation

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What I find weird is how managers like Klopp or Tuchel got in to Cl Semi finals or Finals when managing clubs abroad - yet they came to manage a club in England and managed to win the CL almost straight away.
 

Mb194dc

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No chance at the title without a proven goal scorer coming in. We'll be in a battle for 4th.

As good as Tuchel was in the CL, we pretty much luck boxed 4th due to Leicester implosion. Shouldn't forget those shocking defeats to Arsenal, Villa and in FA cup final in the run in.

We've only scored 37 goals in Tuchel's 30 games in charge... If we can keep our defensive record similar but start scoring 2 goals+ per game on average, we have a title shot. It's a massive if though.
 

stefan92

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What I find weird is how managers like Klopp or Tuchel got in to Cl Semi finals or Finals when managing clubs abroad - yet they came to manage a club in England and managed to win the CL almost straight away.
What's weird about that? They got experience in the competition and when moving to PL clubs they got better squads (in Tuchels case quite immediately). That's quite straightforward I think. And in case of Klopp I don't think you could say he won it "straight away", he took several years to develop Liverpool to that level.
 

SATA

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No chance at the title without a proven goal scorer coming in. We'll be in a battle for 4th.

As good as Tuchel was in the CL, we pretty much luck boxed 4th due to Leicester implosion. Shouldn't forget those shocking defeats to Arsenal, Villa and in FA cup final in the run in.

We've only scored 37 goals in Tuchel's 30 games in charge... If we can keep our defensive record similar but start scoring 2 goals+ per game on average, we have a title shot. It's a massive if though.
This Chelsea fan knows
 

Zen86

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I could see Chelsea winning it next year with a decent signing or two. I don’t think City have been particularly great this year, they’re certainly not infallible. Of course it depends on how Pep spends his annual £200m
 

Dancfc

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No chance at the title without a proven goal scorer coming in. We'll be in a battle for 4th.

As good as Tuchel was in the CL, we pretty much luck boxed 4th due to Leicester implosion. Shouldn't forget those shocking defeats to Arsenal, Villa and in FA cup final in the run in.

We've only scored 37 goals in Tuchel's 30 games in charge... If we can keep our defensive record similar but start scoring 2 goals+ per game on average, we have a title shot. It's a massive if though.
We don't actually need one player to improve by 20, we need Werner, Kai, Pulisic, Mount and Ziyech to average a 5 improvement each which i think is very much doable. I know the goal figures were shocking but there was a lot of mitigating circumstances that won't hold them and us back next year.

My biggest worry is Mendy going to the ACON, if we don't find a decent number 2 and Senegal go all the way that is the thing that has the biggest potential to totally derail any title bid, especially if it requires late 90s points.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Chelsea with a Haaland (reproducing his Bundesliga form) arguably wins the league.
We are crying out for a clinical striker. Its that simple. It is a must.

Got to laugh though, some twitter user not wanting Hakimi because we have Livramento and Lawrence whose pathway will be hindered. The user chats shit on a good day, but that was fecking dreadul patter
 

alexthelion

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6 months after, it's title test

Ole 2.5 years after, next year we expect progress at least top 4 and a minor trophies
Big difference is the number of first team players each club has bought last two years, especially last year.
 

Mb194dc

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We don't actually need one player to improve by 20, we need Werner, Kai, Pulisic, Mount and Ziyech to average a 5 improvement each which i think is very much doable. I know the goal figures were shocking but there was a lot of mitigating circumstances that won't hold them and us back next year.

My biggest worry is Mendy going to the ACON, if we don't find a decent number 2 and Senegal go all the way that is the thing that has the biggest potential to totally derail any title bid, especially if it requires late 90s points.
I hope you're right about the goal scorers.

If I was in Tuchel position I would be pushing for a proven goal scorer even if it's a veteran just for a season until we can can try and get Haaland or similar. There are definitely some options in the market to that regard. Seemingly the club already tried for Kane but it's not going to happen.... Tammy and others are surely going out, we'll have squad, wage and funds to do some business and I'll be shocked if no one comes in on that front.

If Tuchel keeps the defence as tight, don't think Kepa would be a huge problem for a few months. Can't be relying on keeping a clean sheet every single match to get points.