Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel

Nou_Camp99

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No offense but United was quite lucky to go through back then. PSG dominated your team but failed to convert it into goals, especially in the first match if I remember correctly. Also worth mentioning that Neymar was missing and the squad really wasn't that special without him, especially since Mbappe was really bad individually in those games. They still deserved to go through, IMO, and the goal that decided the tie came from a penalty after Kimpembe unintentionally blocked a shot with his hand that would've went 5 metres over the goal anyway. The team who wins is right ultimately, but the coaching duel at least from my perspective went to Tuchel.

Personally I just don't see a handwriting when watching United play and although I don't follow every United game closely, over the years I've seen quite a few games under Solskjaer by now. I think you have a terrific squad with players such as Greenwood, Fernandes, Rashford, van de Beek (although he isn't playing currently) and even Martial when he isn't so out of form, and Solskjaer deserves credit for that, but to me you come across as a team without real synergies. This typical "they are more than the sum of their parts" feeling just isn't there when watching you play. So from a "squad managerial" perspective I think Solskjaer is doing a great job since you individually look much better than before he took over but as a coach I just don't see it.
That's fair enough but Thomas Tuchel wouln't finish any higher than Ole with these players. He wouldn't have finished any higher than 3rd last season and we'd be no higher than 2nd now with him.

Man City have a better coach than either, they have less restraints on spending, they have a vision and DOF at the club.

Ole isn't the big issue at United. The board are and always have been. They understand one thing....making money. They have no grasp on football.
 

Dancfc

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I love the short memories on here. This is a manager Ole dumped out of Europe with a bunch of kids and 10 senior players injured a few yrs ago and also beat them again this season in Paris.
Arteta has toyed with Ole on head to heads.

Ole is unbeaten against Ancelotti.

Lampard handed Ancelotti his heaviest ever league defeat and became the first manager to do the double on Mourinho.

Martin O Neil never lost a league match vs Mourinho.

Pep has never beaten Di Matteo.

Fergie had a poor record against the majority of Chelsea manager's he faced.

Direct head to head records mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things (even less so a one off match), good for banter but that's about it.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Arteta has toyed with Ole on head to heads.

Ole is unbeaten against Ancelotti.

Lampard handed Ancelotti his heaviest ever league defeat and became the first manager to do the double on Mourinho.

Martin O Neil never lost a league match vs Mourinho.

Pep has never beaten Di Matteo.

Fergie had a poor record against the majority of Chelsea manager's he faced.

Direct head to head records mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things (even less so a one off match), good for banter but that's about it.
Fair enough but the question is do you think Tuchel would have this Utd squad above City? I don't.

Personally I don't see him winning the title with Chelsea either as long as Pep is around. And Klopp's Liverpool will definitely be a huge threat again next season. Tuchel, like Ole, can only do so much.
 

Dancfc

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Fair enough but the question is do you think Tuchel would have this Utd squad above City? I don't.

Personally I don't see him winning the title with Chelsea either as long as Pep is around. And Klopp's Liverpool will definitely be a huge threat again next season. Tuchel, like Ole, can only do so much.
I think he'll give us a very high peak similar to what Conte did but ofcourse with Pep around I can't be as sure it will be enough for the title as I was with Antonio (I know Pep was around that season but it was always going to take a season to build that City team in his image).
 

golden_blunder

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Fair enough but the question is do you think Tuchel would have this Utd squad above City? I don't.

Personally I don't see him winning the title with Chelsea either as long as Pep is around. And Klopp's Liverpool will definitely be a huge threat again next season. Tuchel, like Ole, can only do so much.
Agreed. It won’t really be a level playing field until pep and klopp leave. Klopp I can see walking away sooner or later. I wonder if either ego could be tempted to rebuild Barca with no money
 

Nou_Camp99

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feck me Nou Camp you're hanging on to that 2nd spot for dear life. Better get as many mentions of it in as possible before Monday I'd imagine.
I'm not celebrating the fact we're second. I'm merely pointing out the fact I honestly don't think we should expect any better. Man City have at least 5 or 6 players who don't start for them every week who walk into our best team.

Our fans think sacking Ole is going to change us into contenders but once the fanfare and bravado are over you'll start to realise this squad, whoever they put in charge of it, is still nowhere near as good as City's team or Liverpool's without a huge injury crisis.

Realism.
 

Nou_Camp99

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I think he'll give us a very high peak similar to what Conte did but ofcourse with Pep around I can't be as sure it will be enough for the title as I was with Antonio (I know Pep was around that season but it was always going to take a season to build that City team in his image).
Surely the only high peak could be a PL title or CL title though? I don't think anything else qualifies as a high peak.

Will he do that? Not convinced. Don't see anyone in the league removing City again next season bar maybe Liverpool. And that will depend on fitness of their key players. If they keep everyone healthy they could come again.

Chelsea, United, Spurs, Arsenal, Leciester etc won't be good enough.
 
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Our fans think sacking Ole is going to change us into contenders but once the fanfare and bravado are over you'll start to realise this squad, whoever they put in charge of it, is still nowhere near as good as City's team or Liverpool's without a huge injury crisis.
I'd say the past years of Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Falcao, Sanchez, Schneiderlin, AWB, Bruno, Maguire, Lukaku, Pogba etc etc have taught me that fans who think a few signings is going to change us into contenders are the ones who are furthest from the mark.
Liverpool thought the same every season for 30 years, we did for 25 years.

What is more likely to take us closer, is an exceptional manager.
 

Zehner

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Agreed. It won’t really be a level playing field until pep and klopp leave. Klopp I can see walking away sooner or later. I wonder if either ego could be tempted to rebuild Barca with no money
Klopp was also seen as quite clearly a level below Pep when he arrived. All I can say is that Tuchel at Dortmund did at least comparably well to Klopp in his later years. Not sure he can have the long term impact Klopp proved at both Dortmund and Liverpool but I can totally see Tuchel being in for the title in the future with this squad. Don't forget, we've never seen Tuchel in his current position. At the BVB he overperformed with a team clearly inferior to Bayern and at PSG he ran away with the league title with a squad superior to everyone else. Now is the first time he has a team arguably on eye level with the favourites. He already competed with Klopp and Guardiola in the Bundesliga but they always had better teams than him. Now that he's got the same resources available in the same league as those two it's his chance to either join them in the elite tier of coaches or cement his status as a very good but not elite level coach.
 

Nou_Camp99

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I'd say the past years of Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Falcao, Sanchez, Schneiderlin, AWB, Bruno, Maguire, Lukaku, Pogba etc etc have taught me that fans who think a few signings is going to change us into contenders are the ones who are furthest from the mark.
Liverpool thought the same every season for 30 years, we did for 25 years.

What is more likely to take us closer, is an exceptional manager.
Who is this exceptional manager?
 

dal

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No they have a better manager than we do. Our squad is better. However, their manager is much better than ours.
The manager that Ole has managed to beat on several occasions with a much weaker team.
 

Water Melon

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The manager that Ole has managed to beat on several occasions with a much weaker team.
Compare careers, this is objective. Who progressed in the CL, Utd or PSG? Or are we talking about isolated matches here?
 

Dancfc

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The manager that Ole has managed to beat on several occasions with a much weaker team.
And Arteta has toyed with Ole despite the former having a weaker squad.

What's the point here?
 

amolbhatia50k

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No idea.

What’s your point?
That unless you have personally scouted and approached managers and understood their availability and desire to wish the club then you have no business believing Ole should be replaced. Similarly if Martial is not good enough for the club, and you haven't been following much of other leagues these days then you should just pretend he's amazing and move on like a happy chappy.
 

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Tuchel's Chelsea have conceded 2 goals in 10 games. Yes, they haven't scored that many either, but that's a rock solid defensive record since his arrival. In fact, it's City-esque.

They don't sit back and deep, and often play with a high line and still seldom look like conceding.
 

tomaldinho1

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That's fair enough but Thomas Tuchel wouln't finish any higher than Ole with these players. He wouldn't have finished any higher than 3rd last season and we'd be no higher than 2nd now with him.

Man City have a better coach than either, they have less restraints on spending, they have a vision and DOF at the club.

Ole isn't the big issue at United. The board are and always have been. They understand one thing....making money. They have no grasp on football.
I'm probably in the minority given the caf's constant revisionism on players but I actually rate a hell of a lot of United's team.

Issue that keeps happening is these conversation becomes "but [insert manager] could do better/worse than Ole" but if we take Ole out of it (in fact forget managers completely) and just think of the players we have when they have been in form, United are really well placed to play good football. I feel a bit sorry for the players, one season Martial is scoring 20+ goals, the next season he is Sunday League.

Tuchel is a great case study for us because he's essentially come in and done what LVG did first season - I think we all agree Chelsea/United have broadly similar squads and a first XI would be pretty mixed (I don't care if you think one or the other is stronger but I think it's fair to say there's not a monumental difference). Their defence has transformed overnight and whilst I saw people criticising his possession style - he's unbeaten and moving steadily up the table. They will lose a game soon, no doubt, but this season is about setting that foundation for himself. As a United fan I am hopeful Chelsea will falter and their lack of a top CF will start to cost them too many draws but they are creating chances consistently and signs are there they will, at the very least, become a nightmare to play against.
 

Nou_Camp99

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No idea.

What’s your point?
My point is that it's easy to have a go at Ole. Especially considering that the issues at this club run much deeper than manager. If you haven't picked up on that in last 8 years then god help you all. But unless you can tell us all who you think would be best to take over then it's just moaning. Also this club will never sack a manager in 2nd place and still in 2 cups. Never. So having Ole out comments and articles every single week does nobody any good does it? Jose didn't get sacked when he was 2nd. He got sacked the following season when we were like 10 or 12th.

If Ole gets us top 4 he will get a new contract most likely. If he gets top 4 and wins a cup he definitely will. If he does are all you lot going to get behind him?
 

Nou_Camp99

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I'm probably in the minority given the caf's constant revisionism on players but I actually rate a hell of a lot of United's team.

Issue that keeps happening is these conversation becomes "but [insert manager] could do better/worse than Ole" but if we take Ole out of it (in fact forget managers completely) and just think of the players we have when they have been in form, United are really well placed to play good football. I feel a bit sorry for the players, one season Martial is scoring 20+ goals, the next season he is Sunday League.

Tuchel is a great case study for us because he's essentially come in and done what LVG did first season - I think we all agree Chelsea/United have broadly similar squads and a first XI would be pretty mixed (I don't care if you think one or the other is stronger but I think it's fair to say there's not a monumental difference). Their defence has transformed overnight and whilst I saw people criticising his possession style - he's unbeaten and moving steadily up the table. They will lose a game soon, no doubt, but this season is about setting that foundation for himself. As a United fan I am hopeful Chelsea will falter and their lack of a top CF will start to cost them too many draws but they are creating chances consistently and signs are there they will, at the very least, become a nightmare to play against.
We have some good players, some average ones and some who shouldn't really be at a club like ours. Overall this squad is a top 4 challenging one not a title chasing one.
 

tomaldinho1

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We have some good players, some average ones and some who shouldn't really be at a club like ours. Overall this squad is a top 4 challenging one not a title chasing one.
I agree with that and I don't think I've seen anyone saying we should be considered equals with City this season. The question I don't know the answer to is about our style of play - is this the plan moving forward and then add more players or is this a pragmatic approach to a weird season where top four is the aim? If it's the former I'm not keen but I do understand if it's the latter.
 

Dancfc

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My point is that it's easy to have a go at Ole. Especially considering that the issues at this club run much deeper than manager. If you haven't picked up on that in last 8 years then god help you all. But unless you can tell us all who you think would be best to take over then it's just moaning. Also this club will never sack a manager in 2nd place and still in 2 cups. Never. So having Ole out comments and articles every single week does nobody any good does it? Jose didn't get sacked when he was 2nd. He got sacked the following season when we were like 10 or 12th.

If Ole gets us top 4 he will get a new contract most likely. If he gets top 4 and wins a cup he definitely will. If he does are all you lot going to get behind him?
I could be wrong but hasn't Ole said he's got a good relationship with the owners/Woodwood and has been backed? If that's the case surely he's forefitted his "Glazers tax"?
 

ZolaWasMagic

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To be honest, I don't see which players he should bring in. This squad is almost tailored for Tuchel already. Jorginho, Kovacic, Mount, Havertz, Hudson-Odoi and to a lesser extent even Werner are brillant for him. Pulisic, too.

Maybe he needs a defender or two, especially if Silva regresses but especially attack and midfield look already on point. At least the first names on the team sheet. They could go for a world class signing (Sancho I suppose) and/or optimize the second row. Sell Abraham and Kanté, etc. and replace them with Tuchel type of players. This could become a really terrific team if they do land Sancho.
I think he will go for a top class CB. And another striker, as i think Abraham will go and Giroud.
 

Nou_Camp99

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I wasn’t having a go, simply stating that Liverpool pre Klopp and United pre SAF tell us that an exceptional manager, and not a few nice signings will more likely be the thing that takes us back to the top.

Bizarre rant, hence why I cut it down to the first line.
Find me an exceptional manager and I'm all ears.

Still think we need to take care of the bigger issue at the club. Woodward and Judge. Glazers too, however that one isn't as easy as there's not many people looking for a 4bn football club is there?

This sacking managers and allowing the shambles of Ed Woodward and Matt Judge to sort everything out will get us nowhere. It's failed 3 times already (and 4 if you believe Ole is done for)

City aren't just better than us due to the coach. They have got themselves sorted off the pitch too. We're a mess.
 

Dancfc

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The most pleasing thing so far is he is rotating Kante appropriately.

Lampard played him every game when fit for 90 minutes regardless of the opponent, twice it blunted momentum we built without him in the side, was unbearable at times.
 

Nou_Camp99

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I could be wrong but hasn't Ole said he's got a good relationship with the owners/Woodwood and has been backed? If that's the case surely he's forefitted his "Glazers tax"?
What do you want him to say? Everything is awful. Can't stand them. LVG n Jose said there were no issues whilst in the job. That soon changed once their contracts were paid up.
 

Nou_Camp99

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That’s not the point though is it?

I’m not even suggesting we replace him, just saying what scenario is more likely. You must yourself know that a few new players hasn’t worked for almost a decade of crazy spending, why would it suddenly be the solution now?
To be fair I said early doors into Ole's reign that no matter how it turns out....Ed Woodward should be gone before the next manager. He's had too many chances now. Go and check my comments if you don't believe me. And that was before I knew how Ole would get on.

We can't keep spinning the wheel and hoping we land on the jackpot.

I'd actually be okay with ole being replaced this summer as it happens if it was combined with a complete culture shift including the appointment of a DOF. At least there would be some sort of plan then. No guarantee that works either but at least you can see some thinking.

But if you're asking me do I want Ole to get sacked but nothing else to change above him then it's a categoric NO!!!! Managers can't keep taking the fall for these clowns.
 

Zaphod2319

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I know one thing living a few hours from Tampa, the Glazers are never going to sack Ole as long as Utd are playing football in the CL or EL and they are selling enough swag. They want a man in charge that is stable and the merch goes out the door.

tbf, I don't understand the Ole out cries.
 

Grinner

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This isn't a thread to discuss OGS. Take it elsewhere...it's not like you don't have enough threads for that.
 

Amerifan

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With Lampard in charge Chelsea had a soul. The first time in ages they were interesting.

Tuchel is a better manager, sure, but now it’s back to ignoring the oligarch’s mercenaries.
 

Zaphod2319

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Interesting concerning the disallowed Werner goal


The body also clarified its interpretation of the offside law, saying the definition for handball, whereby the arm ends at the bottom of the armpit, must be used when judging whether a player is offside or not.

Chelsea's Timo Werner was denied a goal against Liverpool on Thursday night when VAR ruled the position of his arm made him offside in the build-up.''
 

el3mel

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With Lampard in charge Chelsea had a soul. The first time in ages they were interesting.

Tuchel is a better manager, sure, but now it’s back to ignoring the oligarch’s mercenaries.
You must be trolling ?
 

Lukaku's first touch#

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With Lampard in charge Chelsea had a soul. The first time in ages they were interesting.

Tuchel is a better manager, sure, but now it’s back to ignoring the oligarch’s mercenaries.
What do you even mean here? "but now it's back to ignoring the oligarch's mercenaries"
So idiotic comment really
 

SAFMUTD

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Find me an exceptional manager and I'm all ears.

Still think we need to take care of the bigger issue at the club. Woodward and Judge. Glazers too, however that one isn't as easy as there's not many people looking for a 4bn football club is there?

This sacking managers and allowing the shambles of Ed Woodward and Matt Judge to sort everything out will get us nowhere. It's failed 3 times already (and 4 if you believe Ole is done for)

City aren't just better than us due to the coach. They have got themselves sorted off the pitch too. We're a mess.
Under that logic we shouldnt replace players either.