Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel

TrustInJanuzaj

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PSG aren't favourites, City are.
Yeh on the bookies. Btw city are favs each and every year without proving anything. PSG have two of the top 5 players in the world. Real Madrid have a track record like no one else: football fans are notoriously reactionary, they talk of ‘quadruple’ every single year.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Do they not count? You’ve kept clean sheets against Barnsley and Sheff Utd in the FA Cup.
Of course they do! Just think your numbers are a bit inflated. Since Tuchel came in, you've kept 6 clean sheets in the league from 12 matches - a solid record but not great.
 

Dancfc

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So did my predictions for top four. I said then Utd were better and you disagreed, whose right so far?
Yep I was wrong about the league prediction in that regard fair enough (although I did say both of us would get no where near the title and I was right).

You've been better than us domestically but i would say that offset with our CL run.
 

Mark_Barca

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Chelsea are being overrated. Not a chance they compete for the league next year.
 

padr81

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Chelsea kept clean sheets against Barnsley and Sheff U, and are Porto much stronger than AC Milan?

I really find it frustrating how Ole and United’s improvements are summarily shut down on this website.

I’m seeing people say Chelsea are a shoo in to be City’s nearest challengers next season, as though we are only second by default.

I find it funny that we’ve finished above Chelsea in the past two campaigns and they always have excuses made for them – transfer ban, Lampard being shit, etc.
I'm not shutting him down, I'm just saying Chelsea have nullified better teams.
Atletico x 2, Everton, Liverpool, City, United, Spurs and Porto (who are comfortably better than Milan in my humble opinion).

When I look through Uniteds I see
City, West Ham, Chelsea and Milan.

There is also the manner in which they did, for comparison
City had 23 shots and 6 on target vs United, City had 11 shots today and 3 on target.
Chelsea had 18 shots and 6 on target vs United, United had 11 and 4 or target vs Chelsea.

United have vastly improved and that is a credit to Ole but Chelsea defensively have been more impressive as most games look like that. United are offensively more impressive. For what its worth I think United will be closest to us next season, Chelsea look a world class goal scorer away from a real title charge (unless they sign Haaland, Mbappe or if they do take Aguero he gets some miracle muscle cure).
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Yep I was wrong about the league prediction in that regard fair enough (although I did say both of us would get no where near the title and I was right).

You've been better than us domestically but i would say that offset with our CL run.
To be fair credit to you for you champions league run. Tbf let’s be friends tonight as I’m glad you beat city!
 

Mark_Barca

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I'm not shutting him down, I'm just saying Chelsea have nullified better teams.
Atletico x 2, Everton, Liverpool, City, United, Spurs and Porto (who are comfortably better than Milan in my humble opinion).

When I look through Uniteds I see
City, West Ham, Chelsea and Milan.
The problem here is your looking at it solely on reputation.

They kept a clean sheet against a City side who made 8 changes, Uniteds clean sheet and performance in the 2 nil was superior.

Atletico Madrid are not a high scoring side and have won 3 of their last 11 games. Also were denied a clear penalty and red card to Azi in second leg. That would have knocked Cheksea out. You wont hear Chelsea fans talking about that 10 years on..

United kept a clean sheet vs Liverpool, Liverpool failed to score at home to Burnley, Brighton, Fulham and Everton. So is it something to hype up?

Porto are not comfortably better than Milan either.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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The problem here is your looking at it solely on reputation.

They kept a clean sheet against a City side who made 8 changes, Uniteds clean sheet and performance in the 2 nil was superior.

Atletico Madrid are not a high scoring side and have won 3 of their last 11 games. Also were denied a clear penalty and red card to Azi in second leg. That would have knocked Cheksea out. You wont hear Chelsea fans talking about that 10 years on..

United kept a clean sheet vs Liverpool, Liverpool failed to score at home to Burnley, Brighton, Fulham and Everton. So is it something to hype up?

Porto are not comfortably better than Milan either.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Mate just log off. Your bitterness is just comical.
 

padr81

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The problem here is your looking at it solely on reputation.

They kept a clean sheet against a City side who made 8 changes, Uniteds clean sheet and performance in the 2 nil was superior.

Atletico Madrid are not a high scoring side and have won 3 of their last 11 games. Also were denied a clear penalty and red card to Azi in second leg. That would have knocked Cheksea out. You wont hear Chelsea fans talking about that 10 years on..

United kept a clean sheet vs Liverpool, Liverpool failed to score at home to Burnley, Brighton, Fulham and Everton. So is it something to hype up?

Porto are not comfortably better than Milan either.
Dude, if you can't see the difference not only in the results but also the way in which both teams defend and how little chances Chelsea give up in comparison to United then I'll not argue, on that. Put Porto are in the Last 8 of the Champions League, Milan got knocked out of the European dustbin in the last 16. I'd put my house on them to eliminate Milan who admittedly were playing above their true level for awhile.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Are you claiming Atletico shouldn't have got a penalty? Biased much?
Do you know what, I'll hold my hands up here and admit that I thought you were talking about the incident against Porto. The one with Carrasco was a far better shout; I'd not go so far as to say it was a stonewall as Carrasco went down very easily but it could absolutely have been given. That said, Atleti were diving all over the pitch for that entire tie and at a certain point there's a boy who cried wolf karmic reckoning to be had.
 

Mark_Barca

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Put Porto are in the Last 8 of the Champions League, Milan got knocked out of the European dustbin in the last 16. I'd put my house on them to eliminate Milan who admittedly were playing above their true level for awhile.
Man United got knocked out the GS but they would still beat Porto, comparison is not valid at all.

Are Chelsea better than United then based on that formula? League table suggests otherwise.
 

padr81

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Man United got knocked out the GS but they would still beat Porto, comparison is not valid at all.

Are Chelsea better than United then based on that formula? League table suggests otherwise.
Didn't Porto just eliminate Juventus a team who are levels above Milan, win one of two legs versus Chelsea also levels above Milan and hold City (levels above Milan) to a draw in this seasons CL.

Are Chelsea better than United? Not in my eyes, defensively yes, offensively no. Are they close to United? Absolutely. Put it this way Chelsea are closer to United than Milan are to Porto, I most certainly wouldn't put my house on United beating Porto. On their day United can beat anyone, also on their day United can lose to everyone. Thats how they ended up in the Europa in the first place.
 

Mark_Barca

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Didn't Porto just eliminate Juventus a team who are levels above Milan, win one of two legs versus Chelsea also levels above Milan and hold City (levels above Milan) to a draw in this seasons CL.

Are Chelsea better than United? Not in my eyes, defensively yes, offensively no. Are they close to United? Absolutely. Put it this way Chelsea are closer to United than Milan are to Porto, I most certainly wouldn't put my house on United beating Porto. On their day United can beat anyone, also on their day United can lose to everyone. Thats how they ended up in the Europa in the first place.
AC Milan are above Juve in the league...
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Didn't Porto just eliminate Juventus a team who are levels above Milan, win one of two legs versus Chelsea also levels above Milan and hold City (levels above Milan) to a draw in this seasons CL.

Are Chelsea better than United? Not in my eyes, defensively yes, offensively no. Are they close to United? Absolutely. Put it this way Chelsea are closer to United than Milan are to Porto, I most certainly wouldn't put my house on United beating Porto. On their day United can beat anyone, also on their day United can lose to everyone. Thats how they ended up in the Europa in the first place.
We ended up in the Europa because we had the toughest group in the competition. If we had Chelsea’s run we would be there too.
 

padr81

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AC Milan are above Juve in the league...
By a point after having a huge lead in Juve's worst season since they got caught cheating and Milan's best. It eventually levelled out and Juve will finish comfortably above them, you can quote me, Milan will be lucky to make the CL.
 

padr81

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We ended up in the Europa because we had the toughest group in the competition. If we had Chelsea’s run we would be there too.
Nonsense, you ended up in the Europa because you lost your balls in Turkey after a brilliant start, which pretty much sums you up, capable of hammering the best and capable of losing to the worst (which is why I wouldn't back you over Porto). Your group was tough but you lost your nerve, after 2 games you had 2 points, keep your nerve and you'd have 12 after 4 and it was job done.

If you can lose to Bashekshir or however its spelled, you can lose to Sevilla, Rennes or Krasnador.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Nonsense, you ended up in the Europa because you lost your balls in Turkey after a brilliant start, which pretty much sums you up, capable of hammering the best and capable of losing to the worst (which is why I wouldn't back you over Porto). Your group was tough but you lost your nerve, after 2 games you had 2 points, keep your nerve and you'd have 12 after 4 and it was job done.
I don’t disagree about our inconsistency but that only really matters in the toughest games of the competition where the opposition have quality to punish you. I guarantee in any other group we go through. Bear in mind we also outplayed PSG over two games who are now in the semi.
 

Mark_Barca

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By a point after having a huge lead in Juve's worst season since they got caught cheating and Milan's best. It eventually levelled out and Juve will finish comfortably above them, you can quote me, Milan will be lucky to make the CL.
If Juventus are 'levels above' they wouldn't be behind this shit Milan side you're portraying.

I don't know if your hyping Chelsea solely because they stopped the quad, but no offence your points are well off.

Rangers took 4 points from Porto last season, arguably a stronger Porto. Won the league, lost Telles and Silva in the summer. Well behind Sporting this season in the league.

My point still stands that Porto are not 'comfortably' better than Milan.
 

Oly Francis

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I don’t disagree about our inconsistency but that only really matters in the toughest games of the competition where the opposition have quality to punish you. I guarantee in any other group we go through. Bear in mind we also outplayed PSG over two games who are now in the semi.
You outplayed a PSG with exhausted players who had to play every 3 day since the final 8 bar a 5 days break after the final.
 

padr81

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I don’t disagree about our inconsistency but that only really matters in the toughest games of the competition where the opposition have quality to punish you. I guarantee in any other group we go through. Bear in mind we also outplayed PSG over two games who are now in the semi.
But not because it mattered in Turkey, you did your job vs PSG and Red Bull, it was the easy team you fecked up against which saw you load pressure on yourselves and implode. I highly rate this United team for what its worth and think you are moving in the right direction, at the minute you remind me of City under Pellegrini in that when the pressure is on you wobble and drop one where you shouldn't. Getting off topic now dude, we've scared all the Chelsea fans away when they should be celebrating.
 

Dave Smith

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Chelsea are being overrated. Not a chance they compete for the league next year.
I don't know. They are currently defending like 80's/90's Milan (bar the WBA game; however, they did go down to 10 men) and they don't have a CF. If they buy a CF/goalscorer and they can keep up their defensive efforts, I find it hard to see a more efficient side in England.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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But not because it mattered in Turkey, you did your job vs PSG and Red Bull, it was the easy team you fecked up against which saw you load pressure on yourselves and implode. I highly rate this United team for what its worth and think you are moving in the right direction, at the minute you remind me of City under Pellegrini in that when the pressure is on you wobble and drop one where you shouldn't. Getting off topic now dude, we've scared all the Chelsea fans away when they should be celebrating.
I don’t fully disagree with you but I just do think we would have gone through in the other groups. Getting to this stage is anyone’s guess to be honest but what I can see if we have the quality to be there. I haven’t been able to say that for a long time so that’s a minor victory.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I don’t disagree about our inconsistency but that only really matters in the toughest games of the competition where the opposition have quality to punish you. I guarantee in any other group we go through. Bear in mind we also outplayed PSG over two games who are now in the semi.
Eh I'd slightly push back here mate - if anything inconsistency matters far more against poorer sides because going from what was more or less a secure 3 points to 1 or none is usually more devastating than dropping points against the top sides.

I certainly don't disagree that you had a tough draw all things considered, but I'm also not convinced that this United is an efficient minnow-beater, if that makes sense! For me generally you've struggled more against sides sitting very deep who concede possession and try to play on the counter.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Eh I'd slightly push back here mate - if anything inconsistency matters far more against poorer sides because going from what was more or less a secure 3 points to 1 or none is usually more devastating than dropping points against the top sides.

I certainly don't disagree that you had a tough draw all things considered, but I'm also not convinced that this United is an efficient minnow-beater, if that makes sense! For me generally you've struggled more against sides sitting very deep who concede possession and try to play on the counter.
Yeh I do get you and it’s a valid point. But we clearly aren’t bad minnow beaters considering we are second in the league and through to the Europa semi final. As I say the inconsistencies can beat you in any competition but because we had two quality teams in our group it really came home to roost. In other groups while we may not have won them, but all the opposition teams would also have been weaker contributing to their own inconsistencies and in that circumstance I’m pretty sure we would have got through.

It’s kind of a similar story in the prem. Utd aren’t entirely consistent but we are better than the rest in that department which is why are sit in second. Most of that is down to increased quality.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Yeh I do get you and it’s a valid point. But we clearly aren’t bad minnow beaters considering we are second in the league and through to the Europa semi final. As I say the inconsistencies can beat you in any competition but because we had two quality teams in our group it really came home to roost. In other groups while we may not have won them, but all the opposition teams would also have been weaker contributing to their own inconsistencies and in that circumstance I’m pretty sure we would have got through.

It’s kind of a similar story in the prem. Utd aren’t entirely consistent but we are better than the rest in that department which is why are sit in second. Most of that is down to increased quality.
Yeah I think that's a completely fair assessment. I also think you're in a much better place overall than you were last fall, and credit should be given to Ole for that as well.
 

charlenefan

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Nonsense, you ended up in the Europa because you lost your balls in Turkey after a brilliant start, which pretty much sums you up, capable of hammering the best and capable of losing to the worst (which is why I wouldn't back you over Porto). Your group was tough but you lost your nerve, after 2 games you had 2 points, keep your nerve and you'd have 12 after 4 and it was job done.

If you can lose to Bashekshir or however its spelled, you can lose to Sevilla, Rennes or Krasnador.
it was complacency which caused us to loose in Turkey nothing about losing our balls or our nerve, if you're want to WUM you'd have a better argument saying that's why we lost to Leipzig in the final game
 

Oly Francis

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Glad you recognise we outplayed you.
Yes you did, the scoreboard of the 2nd game was very flatering for us. But again, our players were exhausted and more than half of our team had COVID from september to november.

You realise we also had no pre season too?
Didn't you get a 1 month break between the end of Europa League and the beginning of PL? How is it even remotely comparable to 6 days??
 

TheReligion

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I'm not going to derail this thread any further, have fun convincing yourself that united outplayed us that night if it makes you feel better, we're way past it now.
You're the one bothered enough to keep making excuses as to why United keep beating your team. Couldn't be possibly because we deserved it. Must be because you were tired, or ill, or made a mistake.

Pathetic.
 

caid

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I'm kind of skeptical about chelsea's defensive quality tbh. Their set up is pretty defensive, i kind of suspect if they dropped a defender for an attacker as most teams around this end of the table play it wouldn't be that good.
If they stick with it i kind of presume they wont beat enough teams to really challenge for the league. Maybe if they bring in Mbappe they'll manage despite it but it would require that tier of player to really work imo. It'll probably serve them well in cups i guess.
 

Oly Francis

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You're the one bothered enough to keep making excuses as to why United keep beating your team. Couldn't be possibly because we deserved it. Must be because you were tired, or ill, or made a mistake.

Pathetic.
You do realize we won the last game 3 to 1 right? That's part of the reason why we're in the semi finals of the champions league and united plays europa league.
 

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I'm not shutting him down, I'm just saying Chelsea have nullified better teams.
Atletico x 2, Everton, Liverpool, City, United, Spurs and Porto (who are comfortably better than Milan in my humble opinion).

When I look through Uniteds I see
City, West Ham, Chelsea and Milan.

There is also the manner in which they did, for comparison
City had 23 shots and 6 on target vs United, City had 11 shots today and 3 on target.
Chelsea had 18 shots and 6 on target vs United, United had 11 and 4 or target vs Chelsea.

United have vastly improved and that is a credit to Ole but Chelsea defensively have been more impressive as most games look like that. United are offensively more impressive. For what its worth I think United will be closest to us next season, Chelsea look a world class goal scorer away from a real title charge (unless they sign Haaland, Mbappe or if they do take Aguero he gets some miracle muscle cure).
All fair points.

I thought Chelsea were mightily impressive yesterday but were also fortunate to have caught a slightly weary looking City. I believe when United defeated you lot 2-0, we defeated the momentum of an absolute juggernaut and while it was a more counter attacking style, we were very much good value.

I do think United will be closest to City next season, and also believe we are only a world class centre forward away from being at the very top table – the draw column in the league table certainly seems to suggest so.