Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel

do.ob

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Nah, domination is real now. Broadly speaking football tactics have been evolving in germany for the last half decade, their best coaches are naturally ahead of the competition, and it's also why they have more good to great coaches than anyone else...
I mean there were obviously people who influenced things before them, Rangnick is often credited, but it really was Klopp with his success at Dortmund that fundamentally changed how people approached the game in Germany, pressing and transitions became a baseline requirement and then when Pep took over Bayern he hammered home the principles of positional football (Tuchel especially, was his biggest disciple, which probably makes last night's victory all the sweeter for him), so now the young coaches, e.g. Nagelsmann, are trying to combine the best out of Klopp's and Pep's philosophies.
 
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Synco

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I mean there were obviously people who influenced things before them, Rangnick is often credited, but it really was Klopp with his success at Dortmund that fundamentally changed how people approached the game, pressing and transitions became a baseline requirement and then when Pep took over Bayern he hammered home the principles of positional football (Tuchel especially, was his biggest disciple, which probably makes last night's victory all the sweeter for him), so now the young coaches, e.g. Nagelsmann, are trying to combine the best out of Klopp's and Pep's philosophies.
Van Gaal is often overlooked there in my eyes. He implemented the core principles of Ajax/Spanish-style possession football at Bayern, even though he didn't manage to build a stable long-term construct & was a mess in many ways. But the impact of Bayern's 09/10 season on perceptions in Germany was massive back then, and Heynckes and Pep could build on the modernizations he brought to Bayern.
 
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stefan92

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Van Gaal is often overlooked there in my eyes. He implemented the core principles of Ajax/Spanish-style possession football at Bayern, even though he didn't manage to build a stable long-term construct & was a mess in many ways. But the impact of Bayern's 09/10 season on perceptions in Germany were massive back then, and Heynckes and Pep could build on the modernizations he brought to Bayern.
I fully agree here. A lot of the development and especially the broader perception of tactical features came from the contrast between van Gaal's/Heynckes' possession-based style versus Klopp's pressing style. Both clubs raced each other to heights never before seen in the league (breaking point records year after year) while emphasizing their tactical setups more than I remember to be the case in the years before.
 

Zehner

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Van Gaal is often overlooked there in my eyes. He implemented the core principles of Ajax/Spanish-style possession football at Bayern, even though he didn't manage to build a stable long-term construct & was a mess in many ways. But the impact of Bayern's 09/10 season on perceptions in Germany was massive back then, and Heynckes and Pep could build on the modernizations he brought to Bayern.
Yes, it all started with van Gaal. Before him, Felix Magath was the benchmark in Germany - a guy who understood himself more as the traditional British manager not as a coach. After van Gaal, the whole obsession with the 'Konzepttrainern' began.
 

hasanejaz88

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Van Gaal is often overlooked there in my eyes. He implemented the core principles of Ajax/Spanish-style possession football at Bayern, even though he didn't manage to build a stable long-term construct & was a mess in many ways. But the impact of Bayern's 09/10 season on perceptions in Germany was massive back then, and Heynckes and Pep could build on the modernizations he brought to Bayern.
100% agree on this. Before Van Gaal Bayern were an absolute mess with no fixed identity on how to play, some turbulent up and down seasons with Magath, Hitzfeld and Klinsmann meant that there was no continuinty. Van Gaal was really the first person to stamp his identity successfully into the team and you can see that it worked well with some of the players in the team, while not going well with some others.

However badly it ended for Van Gaal, those couple of seasons changed the way Bayern played and moved them to adopt the modern style of possession based football that was being pioneered by Pep at the same time. Of course Heynckes improved on that by adding defensive solidity, Van Gaal's refusal to play a pure defensive midfield was the biggest reason for his downfall, and some counter-attacking speed, but the core of Bayern's style of play was still from how Van Gaal played. That continued into Pep's reign and further on.

That being said, I don't disgaree with what @do.ob said regarding Klopp's influence on other teams. Bayern's play under Van Gaal is not easily adapted for smaller teams who lack the technical players to retain possession, but Klopp's fast paced counter-pressing football, often reliant of non-technical but hard-working players like Grosscheutz, Schmelzer, Piszceck and Kuba, was something that could be adopted as a measure against better teams. That I think was adapted more and lead to some of the crazy goals we see with the defense half-way up the pitch trying to madly press the opposition but being caught out, also some of the ugly football we see with teams chasing each other and neither being able to effectively hold possession.
 
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Judas

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I expected it to go well, maybe not this quickly so fair play, and I still expect it'll turn sour. But I can't see a single Chelsea fan caring, CL won, should be right up there for the league next season. Whats another sacked manager if you can win the biggest trophies?

He's a very talented bloke.
 

Synco

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I fully agree here. A lot of the development and especially the broader perception of tactical features came from the contrast between van Gaal's/Heynckes' possession-based style versus Klopp's pressing style. Both clubs raced each other to heights never before seen in the league (breaking point records year after year) while emphasizing their tactical setups more than I remember to be the case in the years before.
Yes, that was the general theme of the first half of the 2010s in the BL. This narrative probably made too much of a contrast out of it, as it often happens. Today, the discourse is more about how both principles can be combined, finding the right balance between possession and transition elements for a team.
 

PoTMS

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This is what a winner looks like. I think some of us forgot what that looks like. Really depressing to watch especially with the Ole apologists constantly chiming in that we're somehow spoilt or moaning for the sake of moaning for wanting to win trophies.
 

Rektsanwalt

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Van Gaal is often overlooked there in my eyes. He implemented the core principles of Ajax/Spanish-style possession football at Bayern, even though he didn't manage to build a stable long-term construct & was a mess in many ways. But the impact of Bayern's 09/10 season on perceptions in Germany was massive back then, and Heynckes and Pep could build on the modernizations he brought to Bayern.
I also 100% agree with this, van Gaal had big impact on german football in general. His impact was earlier seen because of Bayern, while Klopp was still more or less doing his work and having impact as well, but it showed later. I'd still say van Gaal had bigger impact all things considered.
 

Rektsanwalt

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Yes, that was the general theme of the first half of the 2010s in the BL. This narrative probably made too much of a contrast out of it, as it often happens. Today, the discourse is more about how both principles can be combined, finding the right balance between possession and transition elements for a team.
Heynckes achieved the perfect balance in Bayern's triple year imo. That side was nowhere near the van Gaal side in terms of possession ideology. I personally rate that side as a top3 ever because of said balance.

Edit:

Sorry, wanted to quote this post:

I fully agree here. A lot of the development and especially the broader perception of tactical features came from the contrast between van Gaal's/Heynckes' possession-based style versus Klopp's pressing style. Both clubs raced each other to heights never before seen in the league (breaking point records year after year) while emphasizing their tactical setups more than I remember to be the case in the years before.
 

JPRouve

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Heynckes achieved the perfect balance in Bayern's triple year imo. That side was nowhere near the van Gaal side in terms of possession ideology. I personally rate that side as a top3 ever because of said balance.
While the side was balanced like all great sides, I would put them around the top because they were versatile. They were definitely near Van Gaal side in terms of possession but it wasn't their only ideology and not how they were setup for all games, they were perfectly happy to play a more direct game or even use gegenpress philosophies.
 

hasanejaz88

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With all the praise being given, I am here to give my prediction that Tuchel will be sacked during next season while struggling to get top 4.
 

stefan92

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Heynckes achieved the perfect balance in Bayern's triple year imo. That side was nowhere near the van Gaal side in terms of possession ideology. I personally rate that side as a top3 ever because of said balance.

Edit:

Sorry, wanted to quote this post:
Heynckes' Bayern side had to be extremely comfortable in possession to be able to break the point record in the Bundesliga. That was not due to ideology but due to necessity because everyone is happy to sit back and try to get Bayern on the counter. Against top teams, especially in the CL, Bayern were able and happy to play a more defensive style. That team could do everything due to this balance and therefore it surely is one of the greatest ever. But their domination of the BL depended on their ability in possession, so I still think it is justified to call them a possession-based team.
 

JPRouve

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With all the praise being given, I am here to give my prediction that Tuchel will be sacked during next season while struggling to get top 4.
He hasn't really tinkered with the team yet and hasn't openly criticized his hierarchy. I like him so I hope that he learned from his past mistakes but if he hasn't then you are probably right, I would say within 18 months though.
 

AaronRedDevil

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Kinda hilarious from PSG perspective. Sacked him because he couldn't hack it with the world class player's at his disposal. Fine then I'll win it with this lot. Fecking Werner and Rudiger :lol:
 

JPRouve

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Kinda hilarious from PSG perspective. Sacked him because he couldn't hack it with the world class player's at his disposal. Fine then I'll win it with this lot. Fecking Werner and Rudiger :lol:
He wasn't sacked because he couldn't hack it, he was sacked because he was in open conflict with Leonardo. And he was in open conflict with Leonardo because he thought that the players at his disposal weren't good enough.
 

Hugh Jass

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He hasn't really tinkered with the team yet and hasn't openly criticized his hierarchy. I like him so I hope that he learned from his past mistakes but if he hasn't then you are probably right, I would say within 18 months though.
Even if he is, which could happen, he will still go down as a Chelsea legend already. Same with Havertz, he could be sold tomorrow and still be a chelsea legend for his goal.

Just delighted pep did not win it.
 

Wilt

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This is what a winner looks like. I think some of us forgot what that looks like. Really depressing to watch especially with the Ole apologists constantly chiming in that we're somehow spoilt or moaning for the sake of moaning for wanting to win trophies.
Wish that was a Utd badge on his shirt
 

padzilla

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He wasn't sacked because he couldn't hack it, he was sacked because he was in open conflict with Leonardo. And he was in open conflict with Leonardo because he thought that the players at his disposal weren't good enough.
I always thought there was a massive lack of balance in the PSG squad in terms of quality. It's like they went all in on a few superstar names but didn't apply much forward planning to the overall strength of the squad.
 

JPRouve

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I always thought there was a massive lack of balance in the PSG squad in terms of quality. It's like they went all in on a few superstar names but didn't apply much forward planning to the overall strength of the squad.
It's exactly what happened and many people seem to not realize it. When they bought Neymar and Mbappé it was the first question that I asked myself, how are they supposed to build a team around these two with FFP, the response was that they brought bang average players that no top teams would want as their starters. They didn't even had the intelligence to target young upcoming players on the cheap and in order to balance their FFP books they also sold many youth players that would have been very useful.
Tuchel was right to complain about his squad but he needed to be a bit more political and not make himself an easy target.
 

Mb194dc

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With all the praise being given, I am here to give my prediction that Tuchel will be sacked during next season while struggling to get top 4.
Need a proven striker or two or in or we'll struggle to score goals again.

Villa and Arsenal defeats laid the problem bare.

Wondering if we might play 4 3 3 or other more attacking formation in some games next season.

Busy window coming up I think as Tuchel can shape the squad more in what he wants.
 

JDoe

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He has always been arguably our tactically most capable coach in Germany (Nagelsmann could prove to overtake him mind), being able to play extremely versatile football. Still I could see him getting sacked in a couple of years, especially at Chelsea. There has been this reoccuring pattern throughout his career with him falling out with people at the club. And while he is an exceptional coach, some of the players he was insisting on buying at his older clubs (Schürrle, Kehrer especially came to mind) have been really horrible buys.
 

Zaphod2319

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A lot of different people saying a contract until 2024 is being done right now. That is not to say that Roman will not fire him and pay him a fat check if Chelsea goes into a slump.

 

Zaphod2319

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It really come across he is a real fan of the game. And sometimes a big goofy kid.

 

R77

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This is what a winner looks like. I think some of us forgot what that looks like. Really depressing to watch especially with the Ole apologists constantly chiming in that we're somehow spoilt or moaning for the sake of moaning for wanting to win trophies.
The reality is that Tuchel walked into an organisation that's very well run from top to bottom, didn't have to repair or instil an entire footballing infrastructure, and could just get on with what happens on the pitch.

The reality is that this was a thread page that was an oasis of interesting, intelligent insight and football chat, but it was mainly fans of other teams. No mud slinging or bottom lips stuck out quivering because another team that they aren't even rivals with won something.

Anyway...

I like this guy. My opinion of him has come a long way from that Adam's Family extra looking bloke with his leg in a cast being all grumpy on the sideline. Smart, funny, and obviously knows what he's doing. If anyone should be feeling aggrieved with his achievement it should be PSG. Fair play to him.
 

Redlyn

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He huffed and puffed with psg to try to get the CL with a bunch of primadonnas and strolled to it within 6 months with Chelsea. What a year for him.
 

IncyWincySpider

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We were top of the league when Chelsea sacked Frank and appointed him, which seems a century ago now. I'm glad he won, especially considering he was playing City, because I like him, but I'm going to be gutted if he wins Chelsea the league next season. Much as I love Ole, it will be a hard one to take if that happens.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Not so sure now that we’ve won the CL. That’ll buy him at least the whole of next season. Had we failed to finish in the top 4 and lost today he’d be on sack watch by Christmas next season.

Anyway, I’m extremely curious what we’ll do in the window. Giroud will go and Tuchel clearly doesn’t fancy Tammy at all. So a striker WILL be brought in. If we can somehow dump a truck full of money on Dortmund’s doorstep and get Haaland we could be some team. Excited to see what Tuchel’s ideas are once he gets a couple of “his” players in.
if we got Haaland and he reproduced in the prem, we'd be very close to winning it. He wont leave this summer anyway, but TT will be heavily backed. Thats without question.
 

That_Bloke

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I’m surprised his winning all three games v Pep with city hasn’t been mentioned more.
He go into Pep's head to the point where the latter threw out his DM in an attempt to win the final. He's an excellent, versatile coach and his only problem is his recurrent falling-outs with a club's higher-ups.
 

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Secured a great pay day surely before hes sacked
Good on him
 

stefan92

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And they still claim we havent beaten their "best 11". The excuses are pathetic from them lot now
To be honest I agree with that claim. Tuchel has beaten Pep into submission, so that he did not field his best eleven, but felt the need to outsmart Tuchel - and failed.

But I should add that I see why Pep does that, no matter what he tried so far City did always look toothless against Tuchel's Chelsea.
 

SirReginald

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To be honest I agree with that claim. Tuchel has beaten Pep into submission, so that he did not field his best eleven, but felt the need to outsmart Tuchel - and failed.

But I should add that I see why Pep does that, no matter what he tried so far City did always look toothless against Tuchel's Chelsea.
Im going to say - so far - how many teams besides *cough*WBA*cough* have actually looked threatening against us?

I can say with confidence, I am back at Mourinho mark 1 for defensive assurance. He really has done an incredibly job with our defense, along with Anthony Barry.
 

Zaphod2319

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Anthony Barry came in and the defending set plays looked completely different, while Lampard was still the manager. Credit to Frank for getting him.