Yeah agree with that, I feel like teams just need to start matching them up with their own 352. Seems to be the only way to stop it.
Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel
- Thread starter RashyForPM
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From a defensive point of view, I think we (Arsenal) have the players to suit that system. Where we would struggle is going forward as I don't think we have the quality of options to make that work. It was almost evidenced by the start we had last season.
Some would say clearing out the shit that Mourinho left (including your new "star striker") and see consistent progress despite having a bare bones team for much of the first 1 and a half seasons in charge would demonstrated he's doing a decent job.
I mean, he's beat Chelsea two season in a row now in the league with lesser squads on both occasions, but hey, kind of insane I guess...
First season we had a transfer ban and lost our game changer, last season we sacked the man responsible for finishing behind you. Furthermore if merely finishing above Chelsea is Ole's benchmark then that says everything in itself.
The fact of the matter is you are the biggest club in the country so will be judged on those type of standards and the only real metric for a club your size is trophies, Ole hasn't yet shown he's got it in him to deliver the second rate one's let alone the big two.
Definitely, but we're never going to win big trophies with decent.
Nail on head.
Some common sense there from an oppo fan. Hats off.
After watching a number of teams mimic the formation (mostly as a one-off) it seems that trying to stop it is actually the best they can hope for. And that is problematic for the more ambitious sides. You go man for man in key positions but ultimately most teams don't have players of the quality of Silva, Azpi, James, Kante etc to fill those positions. And then Lukaku is brought it precisely to provide the edge in tight encounters.
Will be interesting to see how other teams will cope with this three at the back formation we have now. We have now players to seemingly switch it to 3-5-2 with Werner and Lukaku at top. And kante kovasic playing as 8s to stop over run in midfield and Werner and Lukaku at top to stretch the defence.
Tuchel really moulding a very good squad in his own imagination. He demanded work rate from all his players. So why teams struggled to cope with and found a way to alter things at half time if things not worked out.
This is actually pretty well done for that short of a documentary.
Interesting reading back the first few pages of this thread to remember quite a lot of people didn't rate him that highly.
Which says two things 1) we shouldn't go overboard on him just yet given this is his first actual title tilt in the PL and 2) whenever we speculate about managerial appointments we should remember that guys who don't seem to compare to Pep/Klopp at first glance can still come in, quickly improve things, win trophies,, get you looking like the favourites for the league, etc. You don't need someone to be a once in a generation manager to have success under them.
Which says two things 1) we shouldn't go overboard on him just yet given this is his first actual title tilt in the PL and 2) whenever we speculate about managerial appointments we should remember that guys who don't seem to compare to Pep/Klopp at first glance can still come in, quickly improve things, win trophies,, get you looking like the favourites for the league, etc. You don't need someone to be a once in a generation manager to have success under them.
When did the poster say Ole's benchmark was finishing above Chelsea? He was merely stating a fact. And there you've managed to list out all the excuses on why Chelsea finished below United and yet treat as if Ole has had this current squad and perfect conditions from the start of his tenure.
And I just hate how now oppo fans are using "oh you are the biggest club, you should always be winning these trophies. If not every season is a failure blah blah blah" to add fuel to the fire. I already hated it when our own fans use it. Its just dumb to treat these trophies as our god given right to win forgetting all the context of mismanagement, managers with different philosophies making a hodgepodge of a squad, consistently struggling in the transfer market etc etc over the last decade. If we had all the "perfect conditions" all throughout Ole's tenure and still not won anything, I would have wanted him sacked before the last season. But unfortunately, we did not. And actually, Ole has helped us get close to these "perfect conditions" now to be able to do something about winning these big trophies.. I and most "Ole-inners" would now judge him on that and not on a twitterati hypothesis of how Ole can't win anything in a season after 5 games played and we're level on points on the top.
I agree with this but I feel if we or anyone finishes ahead of yous this season they win the league.
Seriously in few months time if ole not challenge for title every oppo fan will start to sing loud we want you to stay ole we want you to stay.
I am not judging him before and but he spent half a billion after Ronaldo transfer and he will be judged at the end of the season with trophies not how you finished above X club.
If you think ole is answer then good for you and your team. Hope your patience will work out. Will see how ole cope with expectations.
Tuchel is getting plaudits because he improved the struggling team and had the biggest trophy in club competition as a proof that he indeed made chelsea into champions not just also rans.
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Personally I think the biggest issue for opposing teams is that they just don't have their wide CBs as drilled as ours are - Rudiger and Azpi / Christensen are the ones who create temporary overloads in midfield that allow us to get away with playing just 2 actual midfielders (and also this is why Zouma was sold in a nutshell).
Just watched that myself and I am shitting my pants. This guy knows more about football than all our coaches combined I am afraid. Yeah, football isn't just tactics, but this guy has already proved to be the winner. I am scared.
He’s a great manager. This isn’t a criticism of Ole or me saying he should be replaced but the 3 other teams that can challenge for the title have Pep, Klopp and Tuchel. All CL winners and all league winners. This Chelsea side are miles and I mean miles above us in midfield but looking at the 2 squads I’d say we match them well overall just Tuchel is the difference.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Because I'm losing count now of the amount of times a I and other Chelsea fans have said (paraphrasing) "I don't think Ole is good enough to get you back challenging" and it's been meet with (again paraphrasing) "haha yeah okay he's finished above you twice so what does that say about you". I mean okay yes he has but we literally fired the man mainly responsible for that.
And ofcourse, he shouldn't have come in and won every trophy but are you not worried about how you tend to freeze at the big moments under him every time? I mean for example he has good record in routine league games against Chelsea and City but whenever you've faced either of us with trophies (close to) on the line you've got beat, and the longer those business end jitters go on the harder a habit it is to break, ask Tottenham fans (that's why I think Porto was so massive for us aswell as winning the thing because we were starting to get into the habit of losing major finals).
I get it's a tricky situation because Ole hasn't exactly been a complete disaster and has built the squad well but he may become a victim of his own success in that regard because there's truly no where to hide now, if nothing else he will piss off Ronaldo who I can't imagine has returned for a long term project.
So when is this guy going to fall out with everyone and get himself sacked? Getting tired of Chelsea winning now.
Don't worry mate. With chelsea it's always around corner. If he Struggled a bit he will get sacked.
. Roman won't have time to see progress in five year time.Probably when they win the league by 10 points and then spend next summer signing likes of Theo Walcott and Aguero.
Chelsea usually have lazy transfer windows when they're in a very good place as a club and that's annoyed likes of Mourinho and Conte and then they fall back down into the pack. Summer 2010 they had a very good side but it started getting old very quickly and they didn't have enough backup in 2010-11 so that was end of Ancelotti.
When you look at it Chelsea have only actually won 3 league titles since 2006 so while 95% of clubs would take that it's not amazing given their vast resources and what Man. City have done in last decade in comparable situation.
And two Champions Leagues, and two Europa Leagues, and five FA Cups.
So since 2006 that's 12 Major trophies.
In comparison, since 2006 Man City won 5 Leagues and two FA Cups. I think they had a team holiday to Benidorm but other than that, feck all in Europe.
Chelsea have spend a feckload since 2006 but we've also won a feckload since 2006/ We've been more successful than Man City, that's for sure.
I did say 95% of clubs...yes clubs like Everton, us, Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds would all kill for even 2 FA cups but you left us all behind long ago and obviously don't bracket yourselves with us any longer.
Arsenal won about 5 FA cups in 7 years or something and everyone just called last decade of Wenger a failure.
Is it that controversial to say Chelsea should've won more than 3 league titles in 15 years e.g. back to back titles considering Man. United and Arsenal's declines and Liverpool only having the odd good season in that time frame up to last few years considering the resources?
Arsenal won about 5 FA cups in 7 years or something and everyone just called last decade of Wenger a failure.
Is it that controversial to say Chelsea should've won more than 3 league titles in 15 years e.g. back to back titles considering Man. United and Arsenal's declines and Liverpool only having the odd good season in that time frame up to last few years considering the resources?
I think the back 5 is a system mostly smaller clubs have played in this league and to good effect (apart from us under LVG!) to try and keep it as tight as possible but to keep a live threat further up the pitch instead of just sitting back and getting penned in. With top players the extra central player and a keeper who will come out and sweep up makes it a lot more difficult to find good areas in between for crosses or balls in behind. Keep the play out in front and it’s not nearly as dangerous. With really top wing backs it’s potentially the most dangerous counter attacking formation when they quickly break on you with 5 or 6 forward when you’ve committed extra men forward to try and break them down. It’s a more pragmatic approach which is defensively solid first and foremost. with the squad they have they can shut up shop and still win games. I don’t think it’s pretty but it’s effective. Arsenal and Chelsea are the newest big clubs to adopt it. Recently Wolves Brentford and Brighton have also used it to good effect to frustrate more expensive teams and get extra value out of a more limited pool of players.
100% of clubs would swap trophy hauls with Chelsea since 2006.
Could we have won more? Sure but you can say the same about every side ever.
Chelsea were really the first team to bring this back. They have essentially been playing 5atb since 2016. Only reason this hasn't been consistent is because Sarri and Lampard either wanted to play their more 'progressive' football and/or didn't know how to implement it properly.
Not at all controversial, we absolutely should have won more titles in that time. Having a couple of CL wins in there makes it a lot easier to accept though. It's still a big annoyance for me personally though that we really haven't had any periods of dominance since that 2004-2006 period.
6 months to a year, I reckon
That's true actually. I’m not majorly up on Chelsea but if a back 5 can make David Luiz look like a good defender then it’s obviously something that can be greater than the sum of its parts. I always prefer my cheap FPL defenders and GK to play in a back 5. They may still concede plenty of chances but it’s usually from a bit further out/easier to save. Clog up the middle and there’s nearly always someone there to recover and stick a foot in even when they do manage to get in behind you. I regularly use this tactic for Utd away on fm and get draws and snatch wins at the top teams. You can tire teams out while they think they are battering you and commit more and more men forward and you regroup go up the pitch and just pick them off. With top players and such a pragmatic approach I think it’s no surprise to see tuchel doing well. I think LVG wanted us to be something similar but his recruitment was absolutely disgusting
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I am pulling my hair out about this progressive football they wanted to implement. Sarri s version was boredom than what Mourinho served at man utd. Lampard say less the better. What you implied the progressive football I don't know. We are playing well created chances defending well. That's progressive football in my eye.
Personally, I hate what people call 'progressive' football. I use the term mockingly.
Missing out on the top four spot would have been meaningless though since we proceeded to win the CL and guaranteed a place in the CL for next season, anyway. People are so obsessed with top four finish they seem to forget the reason why it matters at all.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...el-at-mainz-chelsea-manager-training-sessions
Some details on his training concepts back in the Mainz days.
Some details on his training concepts back in the Mainz days.
Next Bayern manager?
He was set to become our manager in summer 2018 (in the plans of our DoF and also reportedly CEO Rummenigge) until then president Hoeness stalled, undermined and blocked the appointment and Tuchel eventually went to PSG. God, how angry I was when we ended up appointing Kovac instead
So that ship has sailed for now.
In principle a real possibility, but it will be down to the timing of both Nagelsmann and Tuchel falling out of favor at their clubsHe was set to become our manager in summer 2018 (in the plans of our DoF and also reportedly CEO Rummenigge) until then president Hoeness stalled, blocked and undermined the appointment and Tuchel went to PSG. God, how angry I was when we ended up appointing Kovac instead
So that ship has sailed for now.
Overrated.
As most new managers at that “football club” he’s been riding on a cloud since he joined and is new. Let’s see how good he is once they hit a rock and a few of the Chelsea players start to turn against him as they always do
As most new managers at that “football club” he’s been riding on a cloud since he joined and is new. Let’s see how good he is once they hit a rock and a few of the Chelsea players start to turn against him as they always do