Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel

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No point reading anything on here that has anything to do from outside the UK. Most and by most i mean 90%, dont watch anything bar the premier league. And a large majority of them only watch united games. They know fairly little
Whereas you, on the other hand...
 

WeePat

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I’d prefer that Sülinho stays.
We don't really want Sule anyway, but feel free to take a stab at paying Rudiger what he wants. You're most likely competing with Real Madrid, and possibly PSG, on that front.
 

thescore

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Need to sort the Christiansen situation out, would love Rudi to stay but if he will only stay for the wages quoted, then im OK with him leaving. Targets seem to be Kounde and De Ligt if we do buy replacements. With Guehi and Tomori as buy back options. Colwill will most likely come through into the first team from the academy over the next 18-24 months and by all accounts is one of the most talented we have seen for a while.
 

jakko

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Need to sort the Christiansen situation out, would love Rudi to stay but if he will only stay for the wages quoted, then im OK with him leaving. Targets seem to be Kounde and De Ligt if we do buy replacements. With Guehi and Tomori as buy back options. Colwill will most likely come through into the first team from the academy over the next 18-24 months and by all accounts is one of the most talented we have seen for a while.
We dont have buybacks on Guehi or Tomori, dont know where you heard or read that too. We have a first option on Guehi like we did with Nathan Ake.
 

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What's the Chelsea fans opinion of Lampard as a manager? Would he go to Rangers, do you think that would be a good move for him? Could he get access to any of the young guys at Chelsea for loans or anything like that?
 

Dancfc

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What's the Chelsea fans opinion of Lampard as a manager? Would he go to Rangers, do you think that would be a good move for him? Could he get access to any of the young guys at Chelsea for loans or anything like that?
He's defiently got potential if it all comes together but a huge lot of rough edges right now.

He seems to perform better with lower expectations (see season 1 vs season 2 comparisons) which is kind of strange given the relentless expectations of the teams he was in.
 

GoonerBear

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He's defiently got potential if it all comes together but a huge lot of rough edges right now.

He seems to perform better with lower expectations (see season 1 vs season 2 comparisons) which is kind of strange given the relentless expectations of the teams he was in.
In terms of the support, it seems to be Gio Van Brockhurst vs Lampard as the main choices for the fans. Gio seems to be favourite so far, though I think Lampard might actually be a bit better suited to the squad as is if it was a realistic option.
 

thescore

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We dont have buybacks on Guehi or Tomori, dont know where you heard or read that too. We have a first option on Guehi like we did with Nathan Ake.
Yeah apologies I may have misread on that, Guehi is having a very underrated season and is one I can definitely see ending back at chelsea (like livramento also), I think that was who I was potentially getting him confused with. Lewi Colwill with yet another impressive performance and is looking every bit worth the hype currently.

We have some very useful players coming back next year with gallagher and gilmour in the middle also
 

P-Ro

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Yeah apologies I may have misread on that, Guehi is having a very underrated season and is one I can definitely see ending back at chelsea (like livramento also), I think that was who I was potentially getting him confused with. Lewi Colwill with yet another impressive performance and is looking every bit worth the hype currently.

We have some very useful players coming back next year with gallagher and gilmour in the middle also
Livramento won't end up back at Chelsea because he won't play. He'll probably end up at City or United and Lamptey will end up at the other.
 

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I know fans can sometimes go a bit too academy prospect happy, and I'm guilty of it too, but that Levi Colwill is special. I'd love to see what Tuchel can do with him but realistically he's probably looking at a PL loan next season, preferably not a team doomed to be relegated.
 

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Livramento won't end up back at Chelsea because he won't play. He'll probably end up at City or United and Lamptey will end up at the other.
All my Chelsea friends think James will end up as a RCB as he isn't that quick (for a RWB) is very good at defending and would be great at playing that back post ball Azpilicueta does (as well as having better opportunities at shooting from range) and Livramento will slot in at RWB.

Personally I see the logic of that if the kid (Livramento) keeps going at the rate he currently is.
 
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Dancfc

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All my Chelsea friends think James will end up as a RCB as he isn't that quick (for a RWB) is very good at defending and would be great at playing that back post ball Azpilicueta does (as well as having better opportunities at shooting from range) and Livramento will slot in at RWB.

Personally I see the logic of that if the kid (Livramento) keeps going at the rate he currently is.
It goes under the radar a bit even in our own fanbase but it was at RCB where James accelerated himself to being our top prospect (as a RB/RWB Dujon Sterling was considered the better prospect).

It was actually a James-Chalobah-Guehi back three in the youth cup for a while.
 

Brwned

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All my Chelsea friends think James will end up as a RCB as he isn't that quick (for a RWB) is very good at defending and would be great at playing that back post ball Azpilicueta does (as well as having better opportunities at shooting from range) and Livramento will slot in at RWB.

Personally I see the logic of that if the kid (Livramento) keeps going at the rate he currently is.
Agreed, James' inability to beat a man will always make him a limited wing back and a lot of the stuff he's good at he can do from that deeper position. Livramento looks good enough to give it a go at some point!
 

thescore

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I know fans can sometimes go a bit too academy prospect happy, and I'm guilty of it too, but that Levi Colwill is special. I'd love to see what Tuchel can do with him but realistically he's probably looking at a PL loan next season, preferably not a team doomed to be relegated.
Agreed that they can but the proof is in the pudding, its easy to label the most recent crop in terms of james mount etc as lucky due to lampard coming in

But look at what we have out on loan or have sold this previous summer, Livramento, gallagher, colwill, Guehi, Tomori are top top players. Cobham is a conveyor belt for talent and the best academy in England easily and I dont see that changing anytime soon.
All my Chelsea friends think James will end up as a RCB as he isn't that quick (for a RWB) is very good at defending and would be great at playing that back post ball Azpilicueta does (as well as having better opportunities at shooting from range) and Livramento will slot in at RWB.

Personally I see the logic of that if the kid (Livramento) keeps going at the rate he currently is.
This would make great sense long term and I think its realistic also
 

P-Ro

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Why would we play Reece James as a CB where he won't get into positions to cross the ball? He has the best delivery out wide out of our whole squad. Playing him at wing back allows him to get into scoring opportunities from open play and he's one of our best finishers as well. The idea that we should be shifting him to a centre back role given how good he is going forward is just stupid. He can do a job there but he won't be half the player that he is at fullback or wing back.
 

Zaphod2319

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Why would we play Reece James as a CB where he won't get into positions to cross the ball? He has the best delivery out wide out of our whole squad. Playing him at wing back allows him to get into scoring opportunities from open play and he's one of our best finishers as well. The idea that we should be shifting him to a centre back role given how good he is going forward is just stupid. He can do a job there but he won't be half the player that he is at fullback or wing back.
I think the caveat is Livramento is even better going forward. James is a rock in defense when he is already back.
 

P-Ro

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I think the caveat is Livramento is even better going forward. James is a rock in defense when he is already back.
But a proper CB would be far better than Reece James in that position. Currently Reece James is one of the best wing backs in the world and people are talking about moving him out of position to allow a player who isn't as good defensively and probably isn't as good offensively to take his place. Livramento might end up being better offensively, but he clearly isn't at the moment.

Also being a great wing back is not about being able to beat a man, it helps obviously but that's your wingers primary job. It's about having an engine to bomb forward & back, being able to cross the ball well, being ready to overlap & move into the box and having the passing range to switch play quickly to the wing back on the other side. He's got all of that in abundance. And he can defend. I really don't see the logic in this and it reminds of that time a few years ago when people used to be obsessed with the idea that a good ball playing centre back should eventually end up as a DM.
 

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Tuchel said he moved Azpiliceuta to wing back and Reece James to centre back last year because of James’ relative weakness at beating a man. Conte played Victor Moses at wing back despite him being unable to cross, pass or shoot, simply because he was good at beating a man. A fullback with a winger in front of him doesn’t need to beat a man. A wingback finds himself in that position much more often.

On the flipside, the right centre back often gets the ideal position to play crosses from deep: with the wingback pinning back the fullback, creating time and space to pick out the pass. That’s James’ best quality. Getting to the byline and pulling it back, not so much. There’s no need for him to be so high. As a fullback I’d choose James over Livramento any day of the week but as a wingback, it seems entirely plausible Livramento will be better.
 

Zaphod2319

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I just looked at several websites that rank positions and Reece James consistently is 8-10th. I rate James, I like him both as a player and as a human. He belongs on the team and playing, but he is not the end all.
 

stefan92

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Also there are the ongoing rumuors that Rüdiger might leave Chelsea. At the moment he seems to be the CB who most often steps forward. If he should be replaced by another CB who stays more at the back, than James could take on this job, just on RCB instead of LCB position.
 

P-Ro

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Tuchel said he moved Azpiliceuta to wing back and Reece James to centre back last year because of James’ relative weakness at beating a man. Conte played Victor Moses at wing back despite him being unable to cross, pass or shoot, simply because he was good at beating a man. A fullback with a winger in front of him doesn’t need to beat a man. A wingback finds himself in that position much more often.

On the flipside, the right centre back often gets the ideal position to play crosses from deep: with the wingback pinning back the fullback, creating time and space to pick out the pass. That’s James’ best quality. Getting to the byline and pulling it back, not so much. There’s no need for him to be so high. As a fullback I’d choose James over Livramento any day of the week but as a wingback, it seems entirely plausible Livramento will be better.
I'd be incredibly surprised if Tuchel said that first sentence given Azpilicueta has never beat a man. In fact please post it because I just don't believe he said it.

Moses was an average winger and he was moved to wing back because he was better suited to that position than anyone else in the team. The comparison of Moses with James just can't be made because James is already a top wing back and we've got better centre backs than him. And let's be clear, Reece James is a far better wing back now than Moses ever was, so for you to highlight the one thing that Moses excelled isn't really going to sway me on this one.

The only time centre backs get the opportunity to make those crosses is when you are playing a team who are parking the bus. And even then, the wing backs will still get many more opportunities to cross on average.

Also forgotten in all of this is the difference in aerial ability between James and Livramento. If you have Tino playing as wing back and James as CB you will have one less player who is decent at defending and attacking set pieces than if you had a proper centre back playing with James as the wing back.
 

P-Ro

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I just looked at several websites that rank positions and Reece James consistently is 8-10th. I rate James, I like him both as a player and as a human. He belongs on the team and playing, but he is not the end all.
Those same websites list Sergio Ramos as one of the top 3 CBs in the world. They are clickbait.
 

Brwned

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I'd be incredibly surprised if Tuchel said that first sentence given Azpilicueta has never beat a man. In fact please post it because I just don't believe he said it.

Moses was an average winger and he was moved to wing back because he was better suited to that position than anyone else in the team. The comparison of Moses with James just can't be made because James is already a top wing back and we've got better centre backs than him. And let's be clear, Reece James is a far better wing back now than Moses ever was, so for you to highlight the one thing that Moses excelled isn't really going to sway me on this one.

The only time centre backs get the opportunity to make those crosses is when you are playing a team who are parking the bus. And even then, the wing backs will still get many more opportunities to cross on average.

Also forgotten in all of this is the difference in aerial ability between James and Livramento. If you have Tino playing as wing back and James as CB you will have one less player who is decent at defending and attacking set pieces than if you had a proper centre back playing with James as the wing back.
Yeah Reece James is a better wingback than Moses. That wasn’t really the point. Why do you think he moved Azpilicueta out to wingback when he’s defensively better and offensively worse in every other way?
 

P-Ro

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Yeah Reece James is a better wingback than Moses. That wasn’t really the point. Why do you think he moved Azpilicueta out to wingback when he’s defensively better and offensively worse in every other way?
According to you Tuchel said it was down to him not being able to beat a man. But did he?
 

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Need to sort the Christiansen situation out, would love Rudi to stay but if he will only stay for the wages quoted, then im OK with him leaving. Targets seem to be Kounde and De Ligt if we do buy replacements. With Guehi and Tomori as buy back options. Colwill will most likely come through into the first team from the academy over the next 18-24 months and by all accounts is one of the most talented we have seen for a while.
Out of interest. Would you rather take Guehi or Tomori back? Guehi looks really good to me… Got to say, I’ve never been that into De Ligt and think you wouldn’t miss out that much by staying clear.

Also, am I right the Livramento has a very low buy-back? I’d assume, if Azpi moves on next year, Livramento and James would each get enough games to keep them both happy, especially as Tuchel is good at spreading game time out.
 

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According to you Tuchel said it was down to him not being able to beat a man. But did he?
I’m on a plane just about to take off so I won’t be searching for it now, but yeah, that’s my memory. If I’m mistaken, happy to admit that. I really don’t care much about it, you seem a little too invested in it. Happy to concede you win this debate. Fun times.
 

P-Ro

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I’m on a plane just about to take off so I won’t be searching for it now, but yeah, that’s my memory. If I’m mistaken, happy to admit that. I really don’t care much about it, you seem a little too invested in it. Happy to concede you win this debate. Fun times.
You were talking nonsense and you backed your main point up with something that wasn't true. But hey, I'm just a little too invested in it aren't I eh?
 

WeePat

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Yeah Reece James is a better wingback than Moses. That wasn’t really the point. Why do you think he moved Azpilicueta out to wingback when he’s defensively better and offensively worse in every other way?
It was really more in certain games to have James back there up against a pacy striker like Vardy, so it was more about countering Azpi's shortcomings than James'.
 

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" I'd be incredibly surprised if Tuchel said that first sentence given Azpilicueta has never beat a man. In fact please post it because I just don't believe he said it."

..
Aspi often flicks the ball past the player he tries to beat and tries to run around them... It has NEVER worked.. But he keeps trying. One day Aspi.. :0)[/QUOTE]
 
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stefan92

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It was really more in certain games to have James back there up against a pacy striker like Vardy, so it was more about countering Azpi's shortcomings than James'.
That makes sense. It's also a situation were weaker defensive heading abilities are usually not a big issue. If the opponent has more fast then big players on the pitch, you can live with that quite well.
 

Dancfc

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Why would we play Reece James as a CB where he won't get into positions to cross the ball? He has the best delivery out wide out of our whole squad. Playing him at wing back allows him to get into scoring opportunities from open play and he's one of our best finishers as well. The idea that we should be shifting him to a centre back role given how good he is going forward is just stupid. He can do a job there but he won't be half the player that he is at fullback or wing back.
On the contary, playing as a wide CB often gets you into that position on the half space which is a lot better angle for a cross or even a shot than out wide.

Many if not most of Azpi's best attacking contributions have been In that position, especially when Morata was here.

And that's without mentioning it's where he elevated himself to star prospect and gained promotion to the first team in the first place.
 

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You were talking nonsense and you backed your main point up with something that wasn't true. But hey, I'm just a little too invested in it aren't I eh?
Yeah, the talking nonsense thing vs. offering a different opinion tends to be a good signal you’re a bit too invested in being “right”. I don’t think you were talking nonsense, but clearly you have a different opinion to me and others - Chelsea fans included - on how suitable he is for the role and why.

If it was to compensate for his lack of pace then I wasn’t paying much attention to what he was saying. Happy to take others’ word for it. It doesn’t harm my pride in any way to admit that the substance of such a mundane point about football came from my own laziness.
 

P-Ro

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Yeah, the talking nonsense thing vs. offering a different opinion tends to be a good signal you’re a bit too invested in being “right”.
No it's about you being predictably petulant and instead of just owning your mistake, you try and make out that I'm being overly emotional.
 

thescore

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Out of interest. Would you rather take Guehi or Tomori back? Guehi looks really good to me… Got to say, I’ve never been that into De Ligt and think you wouldn’t miss out that much by staying clear.

Also, am I right the Livramento has a very low buy-back? I’d assume, if Azpi moves on next year, Livramento and James would each get enough games to keep them both happy, especially as Tuchel is good at spreading game time out.
Guehi I think but I guess thats because its more plausible, Tomori is the better defender overall but he is also further along in his development. I think he was the biggest mistake Lampard made as manager for us and never wanted to see him leave. However I dont see Tomori coming back and I feel Guehi could turn out to be just as good in the coming years. Think one of Kounde/De Light/Fofana is inevitable as I cant see us cheaping out completely across the back line.

I'd be incredibly surprised if Tuchel said that first sentence given Azpilicueta has never beat a man. In fact please post it because I just don't believe he said it.

Moses was an average winger and he was moved to wing back because he was better suited to that position than anyone else in the team. The comparison of Moses with James just can't be made because James is already a top wing back and we've got better centre backs than him. And let's be clear, Reece James is a far better wing back now than Moses ever was, so for you to highlight the one thing that Moses excelled isn't really going to sway me on this one.

The only time centre backs get the opportunity to make those crosses is when you are playing a team who are parking the bus. And even then, the wing backs will still get many more opportunities to cross on average.

Also forgotten in all of this is the difference in aerial ability between James and Livramento. If you have Tino playing as wing back and James as CB you will have one less player who is decent at defending and attacking set pieces than if you had a proper centre back playing with James as the wing back.
Out of curiosity as your so sure this wont happen....

What did you think would have happened if we secured Hakimi like we tried to over the summer? Do you think we would have sold James or that they would have just both been happy to split the gametime 50/50?

Very clearly everyone at the club is aware James can be an elite RCB as well as a RWB and with Livramento constantly impressing and the talent we know he has, it seems very l
 

P-Ro

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Out of curiosity as your so sure this wont happen....

What did you think would have happened if we secured Hakimi like we tried to over the summer? Do you think we would have sold James or that they would have just both been happy to split the gametime 50/50?

Very clearly everyone at the club is aware James can be an elite RCB as well as a RWB and with Livramento constantly impressing and the talent we know he has, it seems very l
It didn't make sense, but a lot of our business recently and throughout the years hasn't made sense either. Just like our attempts last year to sign Kounde (a RCB) for £50m and yet we are wrangling over a £5m salary increase for Rudiger and will probably lose him to a free transfer in the summer. Really bonkers logic from our club there.

The fact that we already have better players in the RCB position than Reece James just makes the whole idea of him moving to that position silly. He's been our most productive player in terms of goals and assists this year and if he was moved to RCB he wouldn't have scored any of the goals he did as he wouldn't have been in the positions he found himself in. There's got to be a really good reason to move a player out of the position he's excelling at and unless Livramento turns into an attacking force like Trent then I just don't see the need for it.