Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel

Stacks

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To defend your position about Henderson not being a good player by linking two articles eulogising the guy is a pretty bold move.
Rodgers did try to offload him, that was a few weeks into his time at Liverpool before Henderson had ever played for him, he went on to make Henderson his captain.

I was pretty critical of Henderson early on in his career, I hold my hands up and admit I was wrong, under the right manager I've now seen exactly what he brings to his side. Yes Klopp has been great for him, but he's not a magician, the player still has to suit him and what he demands on the football pitch. You don't accidentaly fumble your way into captaining a side into becoming Premier League and European champions while playing an important role without being a good player.

Also this is the Tuchel thread, I was the one who derailed it but maybe we should take this to the Henderson/Liverpool thread.
I just said he was labelled a flop which both the articles stated. Even in 2012 they came 8th, 7th in 2013, Suarez dragged them to a title challenge and they were back to 7th in 2015. They were a mediocre team, he was captain and not nearly the best player so he, like most, was average. Not as if the was in the team of the year like Scotty P or Fletcher. He was just a player in an average team and not a stand out. My assessment stands
 

Cascarino

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I just said he was labelled a flop which both the articles stated. Even in 2012 they came 8th, 7th in 2013, Suarez dragged them to a title challenge and they were back to 7th in 2015. They were a mediocre team, he was captain and not nearly the best player so he, like most, was average. Not as if the was in the team of the year like Scotty P or Fletcher. He was just a player in an average team and not a stand out. My assessment stands
I'm confused as to what your trying to say. Yes he struggled in his early days at Liverpool when he was a younger player, then he played an important role in the title challenge under Rodgers, then became club captain, then became an important part of their European and league success under Klopp. He was 21 and 22 in 2012 and 2013, players often peak at an older age. Even the two players you mentioned in Parker and Fletcher struggled in their early 20s as I'm sure you're aware of.

Yes, Klopp has played an important role, as he has with many others players. As Ferguson did with many players. It's usually how football works. And read the articles you yourself linked.
 

Dancfc

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Utter nonsense. Bruno will get in as a #10 or in an advanced role in the final third in most teams. Play him instead of Havertz/Mount in the current Chelsea team and he'd rack goals and assists for fun.
Well well, first game without Ole, Fernandes benched!
 

Hammondo

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Utter nonsense. Bruno will get in as a #10 or in an advanced role in the final third in most teams. Play him instead of Havertz/Mount in the current Chelsea team and he'd rack goals and assists for fun.
If Bruno was in Chelsea he would have to work a lot harder and drop into the actual midfield way more than he does now, its not as simple as you make it out.
 

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Well well, first game without Ole, Fernandes benched!
He's obviously rested. Unless you think someone thought dropping a player who has created the most chances in the entire competition so far is a good idea. But yeah, you can continue checking our line ups when we get the new manager and see if he gets dropped permanently. :lol:
 

Moby

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If Bruno was in Chelsea he would have to work a lot harder and drop into the actual midfield way more than he does now, its not as simple as you make it out.
It's actually pretty simple. He wouldn't need to drop any deeper than their AMs like Havertz and CHO do. The biggest difference in a team like Chelsea and a disjointed one like ours this season is that players pass and move where midfielders are able to advance much more easily. Chuckles over here above thinks Bruno would still be putting in those hopeful lobs over the top when he has players moving into space, providing much better passing options that also allows him to advance and get in dangerous positions.

That's the whole point of having a smooth transition and how any attacking player would easily fit into that in a 'proper system' which funnily was a premise to show one of the most creative players in the world right now would suffer due to.
 

Hammondo

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It's actually pretty simple. He wouldn't need to drop any deeper than their AMs like Havertz and CHO do. The biggest difference in a team like Chelsea and a disjointed one like ours this season is that players pass and move where midfielders are able to advance much more easily. Chuckles over here above thinks Bruno would still be putting in those hopeful lobs over the top when he has players moving into space, providing much better passing options that also allows him to advance and get in dangerous positions.

That's the whole point of having a smooth transition and how any attacking player would easily fit into that in a 'proper system' which funnily was a premise to show one of the most creative players in the world right now would suffer due to.
Both of them drop deeper and do a LOT more work in midfield than Bruno does.
 

Dancfc

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Maybe if you've only watched Bruno last couple of weeks.


Yeah, imagine using the squad in a tight schedule. Madness.
When was the last time a teams supposed best player was "rested" for such a crucial game?
 

Moby

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When was the last time a teams supposed best player was "rested" for such a crucial game?
We are top of the group with two games to go. It's a fairly comfortable situation. And it's not like we are playing considerably worse players or anything. Sancho and VdB should be good enough creatively to get the result here, if they can't there are bigger problems.

But are you genuinely arguing that Bruno isn't playing because he was the problem in our team? Is that the level of discussion I'm wasting my time with over here?
 

Carolina Red

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When was the last time a teams supposed best player was "rested" for such a crucial game?
We are top of the group with two games to go. It's a fairly comfortable situation. And it's not like we are playing considerably worse players or anything. Sancho and VdB should be good enough creatively to get the result here, if they can't there are bigger problems.

But are you genuinely arguing that Bruno isn't playing because he was the problem in our team? Is that the level of discussion I'm wasting my time with over here?
Y'all know this is the "Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel" thread, right?
 

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Orc

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Night soured quite a bit by injuries. To two of our most important players as well.

Becoming a pattern with Kante now, sadly. Has a run of world class games and then picks up niggling injuries. Chilwell has been incredible lately as well. Big, big misses for this weekend.
 

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Thomas Tuchel has officially broken the all time record for the fewest goals conceded in a managers first 50 games in charge of an English club… He’s conceded just 24 goals in that time, with 31 clean sheets.
 

ti vu

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Night soured quite a bit by injuries. To two of our most important players as well.

Becoming a pattern with Kante now, sadly. Has a run of world class games and then picks up niggling injuries. Chilwell has been incredible lately as well. Big, big misses for this weekend.
Alonso or CHO as lwb is still a good option?

Also I just read some post match comment that Tuchel said Chilwell felt better with his knee afterward.
 

Dominos

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Night soured quite a bit by injuries. To two of our most important players as well.

Becoming a pattern with Kante now, sadly. Has a run of world class games and then picks up niggling injuries. Chilwell has been incredible lately as well. Big, big misses for this weekend.
I still think you're in too good a form for it to matter. And we're too shit for it to matter.

Still, every little helps! :D
 

VivaRonaldo85

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Has a manager ever made such a significant impact in only 12 months in a job? Literally turned them into one of the top sides in England and Europe from a shambles under Lampard. Even klopp and pep needed a bit of time to get going.
 

ti vu

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Has a manager ever made such a significant impact in only 12 months in a job? Literally turned them into one of the top sides in England and Europe from a shambles under Lampard. Even klopp and pep needed a bit of time to get going.
Pep won it all in his first season with Barcelona... Few slip in the beginning of the season, and along the way, but overall from the position he took over, the jump was more significant IMO
 

432JuanMata

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Has a manager ever made such a significant impact in only 12 months in a job? Literally turned them into one of the top sides in England and Europe from a shambles under Lampard. Even klopp and pep needed a bit of time to get going.
In the PL i would say no. It’s been so successful it’s unbelievable, you expect a bad run but it’s not coming even when they drop points they just go back to winning
 

stefan92

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Has a manager ever made such a significant impact in only 12 months in a job? Literally turned them into one of the top sides in England and Europe from a shambles under Lampard. Even klopp and pep needed a bit of time to get going.
Klopp and Pep still needed time to improve their squads. Tuchel was signed because Lampard failed to make the squad work, not because the squad was problematic. So a better way to start for him for sure.
 

Dominos

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Klopp and Pep still needed time to improve their squads. Tuchel was signed because Lampard failed to make the squad work, not because the squad was problematic. So a better way to start for him for sure.
I think it's a factor that Tuchel seems to be more pragmatic in his approach than Klopp/Pep. He seems much more willing to adapt his formation and tactical approach to suit his current squad rather than sticking to an idealised way of playing and bringing in players to fit that vision.
 

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I think it's a factor that Tuchel seems to be more pragmatic in his approach than Klopp/Pep. He seems much more willing to adapt his formation and tactical approach to suit his current squad rather than sticking to an idealised way of playing and bringing in players to fit that vision.
This pretty much sums it up for me.
 

stefan92

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I think it's a factor that Tuchel seems to be more pragmatic in his approach than Klopp/Pep. He seems much more willing to adapt his formation and tactical approach to suit his current squad rather than sticking to an idealised way of playing and bringing in players to fit that vision.
I agree, I also think that Tuchel is the most flexible of those three managers.
 

UnofficialDevil

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Has a manager ever made such a significant impact in only 12 months in a job? Literally turned them into one of the top sides in England and Europe from a shambles under Lampard. Even klopp and pep needed a bit of time to get going.
If only Woodward knew anything about football, had sacked Ole early last year and gone for Tuchel we would be back at the top where we belong. Not rebuilding.
 

Dave Smith

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Alonso or CHO as lwb is still a good option?

Also I just read some post match comment that Tuchel said Chilwell felt better with his knee afterward.
I fancy Sancho or Rashford against Alonso if playing on the counter.
 

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I think it's a factor that Tuchel seems to be more pragmatic in his approach than Klopp/Pep. He seems much more willing to adapt his formation and tactical approach to suit his current squad rather than sticking to an idealised way of playing and bringing in players to fit that vision.
I'm beginning to think that too. As much as I love Klopp, and to date he is still a better manager than Tuchel, it's frustrating playing a high press with shit midfielders when even opposition managers know how to score three past us (Brentford, West Ham). Tuchel would have gone more pragmatic and eeked out narrow wins.

Thing is it really is too early to tell. Not quite the honeymoon period any longer but bad patches happen to all teams. How Tuchel responds to those will be telling.
 

Dumbstar

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If only Woodward knew anything about football, had sacked Ole early last year and gone for Tuchel we would be back at the top where we belong. Not rebuilding.
Hmm, there was someone on here repeatedly saying sign Tuchel in January but Utd fans were up in arms calling for him to be banned. Can't remember his name now, poor guy. :smirk:
 

adexkola

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I'm beginning to think that too. As much as I love Klopp, and to date he is still a better manager than Tuchel, it's frustrating playing a high press with shit midfielders when even opposition managers know how to score three past us (Brentford, West Ham). Tuchel would have gone more pragmatic and eeked out narrow wins.

Thing is it really is too early to tell. Not quite the honeymoon period any longer but bad patches happen to all teams. How Tuchel responds to those will be telling.
Yeah there's no guarantee of this, and it grates my gears heating Tuchel being given this level of confidence :lol:

Klopp has answered all questions posed of him regarding pragmatism. Also, his starting point at Liverpool was way behind that of Tuchel's at Chelsea.
 

Dave Smith

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I'm beginning to think that too. As much as I love Klopp, and to date he is still a better manager than Tuchel, it's frustrating playing a high press with shit midfielders when even opposition managers know how to score three past us (Brentford, West Ham). Tuchel would have gone more pragmatic and eeked out narrow wins.

Thing is it really is too early to tell. Not quite the honeymoon period any longer but bad patches happen to all teams. How Tuchel responds to those will be telling.
As ever at Chelsea, it will depend on how long that bad patch lasts for. More than six weeks and he'll be under pressure. That is just the way Chelsea roll.
 

SirReginald

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Yeah there's no guarantee of this, and it grates my gears heating Tuchel being given this level of confidence :lol:

Klopp has answered all questions posed of him regarding pragmatism. Also, his starting point at Liverpool was way behind that of Tuchel's at Chelsea.
I agree, our squad is superior to that Liverpool squad in every way but whether anyone agrees or not, Klopp insisted on his style even when it wasn’t a perfect fit at the time. This caused their results to be inconsistent right up until signing VVD and Salah really. That’s when it started to click.

Tuchel came in, accessed the squad and worked with each player to create on of the most interesting and fluid attacking systems that I’ve seen in a long time. You wouldn’t just be calling him a defensive genius if we finished all the guilt edged chances we’ve missed in the last year. It’s been A LOT.
 

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Tuchel has simply done wonders for us, this season we are 16 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses across all competitions from 20 games. We've scored 43 goals and conceded just 8! That's just ridiculous when you consider the fixtures.

Not only that but we've done it with a significant amount of injuries to Lukaku, Werner, Kovacic, Kante, Mount, Silva, Christensen etc

For what it's worth I still think we'll come up slightly short to either Liverpool or City but the exciting part is that a lot of this squad are very young and can get better under Tuchel. Hudson Odoi, Mount, Pulisic, Havertz, Reece James and Chalobah are all between 21 and 24, then you have Gilmour and Gallagher to add to that. Even Chilwell, Werner and RLC are 25 or under

The next step will come in the summer with decisions to make in midfield and defence pending contract renewals and loans ending. I think Tuchel doesn't need to go mad and a couple of tweaks will sort us for the long term.
 

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It will be interesting to see if Lukaku returning upsets the system a bit. With him in the side the average xG for Chelsea in the PL was 1.5, in the games he's missed the average xG has been 2.5. The big caveat is the level of opposition was much better in the games he played but it does feel as though he's not really a neat fit.