If you ain't world class at 17 I don’t wanna talk
Chido Obi | 2024/25 Performances
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Yup. Pele, Fabregas, Rooney and Mbappe is all I can think of. Messi and Ronaldo had the talent but were still mostly B team players at that age.
Obi should be with the U21s and also training with the first team. There’s no rush for next season either as we could loan him out then too. If he proves that he’s too good for the lower leagues and youth teams then fair enough but he shouldn’t be fast tracked until that happens imo. Let him keep learning and developing.
Getting emotional or hysterical won't make a difference. Sounds like you struggle to deal with differing opinions. That's your problem.
Handling pressure is part of being good enough. When you have all the technical fundamentals, it certainly helps your transition to a top level. Now that doesn't guarantee success either. Many top players, regardless of age, have crumbled under the pressure at Old Trafford. My point is that it shouldn't stop the club giving these players chances if they have the potential to make it.
However, if they don't progress, they should be moved on. For every Giggs, there was a Dong Fangzhou. Some will cut it, some will not. The pressure cooker at a top club should not be reduced for any player. As I have said, Obi needs more work but he also needs to improve and embrace pressure. It is part of the game.
Why are you accusing people of being emotional and hysterical? Especially when your point is that a 17 year old schoolchild (who legally cannot get changed with the rest of the senior team due to CHILD safeguarding laws) is not a child.
That has some pretty unpleasant implications, let’s be honest.
The only person making overly emotional statements in this thread is you.
I think I’m agreeing with you, but size and strength can sometimes have the effect at youth level of actually HIDING deficiencies in someone’s game. It may be that those attributes keep pushing him further and further forward in age levels, without him having all the skills that he’ll need at first team level, to really back it up. Being adult sized at 16 is not always a good thing.
Precisely. Chido was banging them in at youth level at Arsenal, but he wasn’t being fast-tracked for the first team. Whereas Nwaneri, Lewis-Skelly and next season Dowman are being accelerated. That may be because they are bigger talents, but it may also be because players develop at different rates.
My username should tell you I am not English and had not that romantic upbringing.
Good for you. Off you go. Find someone who cares. He is 17, on the cusp of 18 and conventional adulthood. Again, getting hysterical wll not change my position. School child? Even within the English nanny state, he would be a graduate of a secondary school by now. He is a year from being 18. A legal adult. Not the pacifier juggling toddler that you are trying to paint him out to be.
Regardless, I spoke about Obi within the context of football. He is at Manchester United, he has been involved in a huge transfer from Arsenal to Manchester United. Standards are expected of him and the pressure comes with it. If he is good enough, he will rise to the occasion. If he isn't, he will fade away. That is my actual point.
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Sure, but people are not binary like that. Just like their technical abilities you can help them become more resilient and withstand the pressure. But some of it also comes with age and the question is when to make the decision that they will not cut it. If for example you have a 17 yo with world class potential who isn’t mentally ready to play for the first team you’ll be mad to just throw him in there knowing it’ll probably break him. Instead, you’ll try to ease him in training with them and maybe give him a cameo once in a while.
These young players have different personalities and needs to be handled accordingly. If you treat them with a one size fits all approach you’ll miss out on a lot of potential.
Edit: It’s perhaps worth noting that the male brain isn’t fully developed until the age of 25.
Some interesting takes in here... Was quite a few bumps so was hoping for new international highlights!
Seems to have the physical tools at an early age which give him the advantage of being able to compete with men a little earlier. Hopefully it's his footballing ability and not there tools that have allowed him to succeed so much at youth level. Definitely seems to have that strikers ability to carve himself out a chance which comes with confidence is in his own ability.
Be interesting to see what role if any he can play in the coming season as we've been less than fruitful up top and wouldn't be surprised to see him featuring if we don't bring in another centre forward.
Seems to have the physical tools at an early age which give him the advantage of being able to compete with men a little earlier. Hopefully it's his footballing ability and not there tools that have allowed him to succeed so much at youth level. Definitely seems to have that strikers ability to carve himself out a chance which comes with confidence is in his own ability.
Be interesting to see what role if any he can play in the coming season as we've been less than fruitful up top and wouldn't be surprised to see him featuring if we don't bring in another centre forward.
It's funny that it's the keyboard warrior who accuses others of being overly emotional.
Got it. If only English had a word for a person who is not yet an adult. Oh wait, we do - "child".
No one's is "getting hysterical" regardless of how many times you try to project that onto others.
I'm a former teacher. I routinely set 17 year olds homework. Up to the age of 18, children must be in education or training and they are not allowed to work full-time. Because... they're children.
Great, we've both established that:
- You can count from 17 to 18
- You understand that a 17 year old is not a legal adult
- You've been reduced to juvenile, weak, straw-man arguments
This is the context in which everyone is speaking about him within this thread. This isn't unique to you. It just everyone else seems capable of discussing it with a sense of nuance while avoiding the overly emotional reactions that you are hypocritically exhibiting.
And no one is disputing that. They've just suggested that a player not being ready to play as the lone striker in the PL at United aged 17 is not necessarily indicative of his long term prospects. And that throwing him into an already dysfunctional team before he's even finished his A Levels is likely to have a detrimental effect on his development.
Back to the actual point of the thread, I can see him really developing with a loan. He needs to play regularly in an environment where he doesn't have a physical advantage over his opponents, as @TallReed highlighted. I think another season of youth football might actually see him regress in some areas.
You are being rude and abrasive. If you are intending to post in this thread again, please don’t do so with this tone.
Where's that principal skinner meme?
The vast majority of the very best, top players didn’t even start getting regular first team football until they were 20 or so and many didn’t make an impact at a top club until they were 21, 22 or 23. I often use the example of Scholes, who wasn’t a regular in the United line up until he was 22, and even then was in and out of the team, as well as Modric who didn’t even play for a decent size club - in Spurs - until the 08-09 season on the cusp of his 23rd birthday. He initially struggled and was played as a 10 and LW, seen by many as too lightweight. He was properly established as he went from 23 to 24 and didn’t move to Real until he was 27.
People talking about handling pressure etc at 17, in the case of Obi, or not being good enough, like Mainoo, at 20; just have opinions with little value or tethering to reality. And I can’t take them seriously. The amount of players who were truly first team ready in their teens is incredibly small and is by far the glaring exception, rather than the rule.
People talking about handling pressure etc at 17, in the case of Obi, or not being good enough, like Mainoo, at 20; just have opinions with little value or tethering to reality. And I can’t take them seriously. The amount of players who were truly first team ready in their teens is incredibly small and is by far the glaring exception, rather than the rule.
This is just factually incorrect.
He joined Arsenal Youth (Under-16) at 14yrs+8 months of age and 15 months later, before his 16th birthday he had already made his Under-21 debut. This is rapid fast-tracking when one considers the settling in period he would have had to have coming from another country.
Lewis-Skelly's Under-21 debut was after he turned 16 for instance.
Not to take anything away from the Arsenal boys who are 3 great talents (especially Dowman), however i think Chido did okay in terms of fast-tracking for a boy who was new to the club and to the country.
Which part factually incorrect?
It’s impressive that Chido made his U21 debut before his 16 birthday. But Nwaneri made his first team debut before his 16th birthday.
Lewis-Shelly and Nwaneri made 40 and 37 appearances respectively this season. Chido was never on course for anything like that.
I’m not even sure we’re disagreeing. You bring the useful context about Chido moving to England aged 14 and I agree that this may have been an extra workload that local boys didn’t have to contend with.
My point is that not only do young players develop at different rates to each other, but they also develop at different rates at different stages within their own progression. So Chido dominated youth football in a way that Lewis-Skelly and Nwaneri didn’t. But this doesn’t necessarily directly correlate with how well they will each take to senior football.
I find it hard to get excited about any young players in our U18/U21 teams these days because of our history since the big breakthrough of kids in the good days.
The anomalies like Mbappe starting and scoring for Monaco at 17, and Yamal currently with Barcelona skews everything now. It's almost as if they aren't on that kinda level at all then they aren't THAT good and gonna make it here.
Is MG the last academy player that was hyped and actually looked exceptional before his personal life came to light? I know Mainoo is a baller and from academy but the hype and his game time seem to of just levelled off. Even rumours we were cashing in on him for months now.
Not gonna lie I didn't hear much about Rashford before he was thrown in those games at the time.
Off the top of my head I can recall big hype for these
Ravel Morrison
James Wilson ( he's 29 now wtf?)
Angel Gomes
CBJ
Tyler Blackett
Saidy Janko
Fosu-Mensah
Adnan
Elanga (amazing for Forrest this season and some big numbers thrown around)
Nick Powell
Angelo Henriquez
John Cofie
Davide Petrucci
Andreas Pereira
etc.
I also see it mentioned alot especially with premier league youngsters
1. They aren't physically ready
2. We need to manage their game time
3. Loan them out
Mbappe was a 17/18 year old scrawny kid and scored 26 goals in 44 appearances and they won the league.
If you're a good enough baller, you should be playing and not mollycoddled.
Big blame probably lies with some of the managerial appointments and the biggest what the feck moment was Mazraoui as a number 10 against Fenerbache while Amad was on the bench, well done ETH.
The anomalies like Mbappe starting and scoring for Monaco at 17, and Yamal currently with Barcelona skews everything now. It's almost as if they aren't on that kinda level at all then they aren't THAT good and gonna make it here.
Is MG the last academy player that was hyped and actually looked exceptional before his personal life came to light? I know Mainoo is a baller and from academy but the hype and his game time seem to of just levelled off. Even rumours we were cashing in on him for months now.
Not gonna lie I didn't hear much about Rashford before he was thrown in those games at the time.
Off the top of my head I can recall big hype for these
Ravel Morrison
James Wilson ( he's 29 now wtf?)
Angel Gomes
CBJ
Tyler Blackett
Saidy Janko
Fosu-Mensah
Adnan
Elanga (amazing for Forrest this season and some big numbers thrown around)
Nick Powell
Angelo Henriquez
John Cofie
Davide Petrucci
Andreas Pereira
etc.
I also see it mentioned alot especially with premier league youngsters
1. They aren't physically ready
2. We need to manage their game time
3. Loan them out
Mbappe was a 17/18 year old scrawny kid and scored 26 goals in 44 appearances and they won the league.
If you're a good enough baller, you should be playing and not mollycoddled.
Big blame probably lies with some of the managerial appointments and the biggest what the feck moment was Mazraoui as a number 10 against Fenerbache while Amad was on the bench, well done ETH.
Chido Obi is not Yamal yet. Or Rooney. Pele won the WC at 17. He is not going to make it, is he? Loan or sell immediately. Just throw him in. If he is good enough, he will grow into superstardom within weeks.
A lot of people are simply not getting it. He is already being fast tracked beyond what is normal for a 17 year old player..
I think that Obi has what it takes to be an absolute world class striker, but he is not going to get there without time and space to develop. He should play U21 to gain experience and get minutes in the PL/Cups as the third striker this season and second striker the next year. He will still only be 19 then.
If he really goes through the ceiling when given minutes, we can still let him loose. It should neither be the plan nor the expectation this soon though.
A lot of people are simply not getting it. He is already being fast tracked beyond what is normal for a 17 year old player..
I think that Obi has what it takes to be an absolute world class striker, but he is not going to get there without time and space to develop. He should play U21 to gain experience and get minutes in the PL/Cups as the third striker this season and second striker the next year. He will still only be 19 then.
If he really goes through the ceiling when given minutes, we can still let him loose. It should neither be the plan nor the expectation this soon though.
Yeah, i had a look at your previous posts. I don't think we are really in disagreement apart from the bit about fast-tracking. He was also being fast-tracked at Arsenal but maybe not as fast as Nwaneri who was well established in the club from early childhood.
He made his Under-18 debut as a 14yr old and his Under-21 debut as a 15yr old. I think that is good enough fast-tracking for a boy adjusting to new environments.
Chido left Arsenal at the age of 16yrs+6 months. Skelly made his Arsenal debut 4 days before his 18th birthday. No one can predict what progress Chido would have made had he stayed at Arsenal for 17-18 more months to get to Skelly's age but i suspect he would have made his debut even earlier than Skelly still. What we do know though is that Chido was being fast-tracked as much as Lewis-Skelly if one considers his age when he left Arsenal.
Overall, i agree with your main point. Players develop at different rates, and the development is not even linear. Nwaneri was on a clearly faster track than Lewis-Skelly until recently. Now they are both 18 and it looks like Lewis-Skelly has adjusted to senior football even better, at least for now.
The reasonable thing with Chido is to give him time away from the limelight to develop and fine tune his abilities rather than place the Old Trafford burden on his shoulders. Additionally, comparing every teenage player to standalone and unique talents like Yamal, Pele, R9, Rooney is myopic indeed.
Finally, that saying "if they are good enough, they are old enough", has led to much of this silliness. It is not actually backed by data, but people keep repeating it.
I would like people to do a little exercise to research what the following CFs were doing at age 17yrs+6 months: Isak, Gyokeres, Osimhen, Lewandowski, Kane. Alvarez, Haaland.
Then next find out how old those players were when they started playing consistently at a big club in a top league.
Yeah agreed. The clearest example of this from Hale End in recent years is the fact that Reiss Nelson was considered the brightest prospect in a generation that included Bakayo Saka. Nelson had decent loans abroad and was viewed as a real threat going forward, whereas Saka was seen as a dependable, adaptable and tactically astute player who could fill in at LB / LWB.
The trajectory of a prospect from youth football through to senior football is rarely linear.
Gyokeres and Isak are world class but actually they still haven´t. Isak was´nt playing regularly at Dortmund and Newcastle is more of a sub top club right now. Lewandowski was 24 at Dortmund when he became first striker. Kane was 21 at. Spurs and Haaland was 20 going to Dortmund. Time is on Obi´s side.
This is a wild thread and it really has no need to be.
One, Pele. No other player has been a key player for a team who have won/made deep runs in major tournaments and won a major national league at the age of 16-17.
Excellent. I , too, thought Keane and Wilson were nailed on to be first team superstars. Doesn't help when every headline in the Manchester Evening News is "wonderkid Joe Bloggs". Three months later, they've been released
Obi seems exceptional. There are no guarantees, but I would keep him with the first team and not loan him out. Let him find his feet with sub appearances and cup games, and chances are he will become a starter within a year. Similar to how other big talents have developed.
Of course he won’t be loaned out.
Absurd suggestion from posters who think this is a good idea.
Absurd suggestion from posters who think this is a good idea.
Exactly. The idea that if he is not ready to start for one of the biggest clubs in the world at 17yrs it means he is not good enough, is bonkers.
They live in 2003
The 2025/2026 United cannot afford to loan Chido out, even if the benefits of doing so can be debatable
Of course you can afford to loan out a 17 yr old! That’s an unbelievable take:
That's a great achievement. Well done to him. We'll see a lot of him in pre-season. Obi is an obvious talent.
No we cannot. We need him as a backup striker, because we have nothing
So if he gets injured on 1st September that's it? You're screwed?
If he's our backup striker, we're screwed regardless
Even IF we sign a decent striker in this window, when Chido gets injured our choices for a backup become:
1. Hojlund who we are actively trying to sell and may not be around next season, and has been unbelievable shit all last season
2. Zirkzee, who himslef admits he is not an out-and-out #9 and everybody with eyes can see he is not
So, do you want me to actually answer your question or was it rhetorical?
I'm not sure I do at this point, partly because I've forgotten what my question was!
I think I'll just say I respectfully disagree, and back out of the conversation!
It must be a nightmare for young forwards working their way into a first team for a major club these days. Unless you are instantly brilliant, your not good enough. The best thing we've done recently is sending Amad out on loan. He would have been written off years ago if he was making first team appearances.
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