Chido Obi Martin

gulli_G said:
Morrison was definitely a generational talent but he didn't have the mentality. Seen him once in Old Trafford Shrewsbury street, on a kids BMX with studs, just hanging around with some rough looking kids doing jack all. At a time when the senior team would be training. Had to do a double take as couldn't believe what I was seeing.
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Absolute waster. You can't be a "generational talent" if your career looks like this.

YearsTeamApps(Gls)
2010–2012Manchester United0(0)
2012–2015West Ham United18(3)
2012–2013→ Birmingham City (loan)27(3)
2014→ Queens Park Rangers (loan)15(6)
2014→ Cardiff City (loan)7(0)
2015–2019Lazio4(0)
2017→ Queens Park Rangers (loan)5(0)
2017–2018→ Atlas (loan)18(3)
2019Östersund6(0)
2019–2020Sheffield United1(0)
2020→ Middlesbrough (loan)3(0)
2020–2021ADO Den Haag4(0)
2021–2022Derby County36(4)
2022–2023D.C. United14(2)
2024–Precision9(3)
 
Big Andy said:
Absolute waster. You can't be a "generational talent" if your career looks like this.

YearsTeamApps(Gls)
2010–2012Manchester United0(0)
2012–2015West Ham United18(3)
2012–2013→ Birmingham City (loan)27(3)
2014→ Queens Park Rangers (loan)15(6)
2014→ Cardiff City (loan)7(0)
2015–2019Lazio4(0)
2017→ Queens Park Rangers (loan)5(0)
2017–2018→ Atlas (loan)18(3)
2019Östersund6(0)
2019–2020Sheffield United1(0)
2020→ Middlesbrough (loan)3(0)
2020–2021ADO Den Haag4(0)
2021–2022Derby County36(4)
2022–2023D.C. United14(2)
2024–Precision9(3)
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If your head has several screws loose. You definitely can....
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
If your head has several screws loose. You definitely can....
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It points to an aspect of ‘talent’ that mostly is ignored because fans and commentators have a hard time assessing it: Intelligence, drive, mentality, discipline, social IQ, loyalty to others … these aspects are as important talents in elite football as speed, technique, strength, stamina, eye for a pass. They to a huge degree determine who will develop from age 16-20 and who won’t.

Morrison had a talent for rounding a U-21 pitch, but he didn’t have a talent for getting into an adult football 11. Those around him knew about these degiciencies and tried to coach it out of him, but he didn’t have that kind of talent at all.
 
Big Andy said:
Absolute waster. You can't be a "generational talent" if your career looks like this.

YearsTeamApps(Gls)
2010–2012Manchester United0(0)
2012–2015West Ham United18(3)
2012–2013→ Birmingham City (loan)27(3)
2014→ Queens Park Rangers (loan)15(6)
2014→ Cardiff City (loan)7(0)
2015–2019Lazio4(0)
2017→ Queens Park Rangers (loan)5(0)
2017–2018→ Atlas (loan)18(3)
2019Östersund6(0)
2019–2020Sheffield United1(0)
2020→ Middlesbrough (loan)3(0)
2020–2021ADO Den Haag4(0)
2021–2022Derby County36(4)
2022–2023D.C. United14(2)
2024–Precision9(3)
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My point was he had a generational talent, skillset. But was a few nuts and raisins short of a fruit cake. I can't think of another player that wasted it away like that.
 
Grande said:
It points to an aspect of ‘talent’ that mostly is ignored because fans and commentators have a hard time assessing it: Intelligence, drive, mentality, discipline, social IQ, loyalty to others … these aspects are as important talents in elite football as speed, technique, strength, stamina, eye for a pass. They to a huge degree determine who will develop from age 16-20 and who won’t.

Morrison had a talent for rounding a U-21 pitch, but he didn’t have a talent for getting into an adult football 11. Those around him knew about these degiciencies and tried to coach it out of him, but he didn’t have that kind of talent at all.
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I don't buy ANY of this at all.
Discipline, mentality and drive have absolutely nothing to do with talent. They are instead the tools that help a person mould, nurture and fulfill talent. Ravel did not have those 3 most important tools that take an individual from merely talented to .a successful elite level performer with honed talent. That is why the phrase 'hard work trumps talent" even exists.

All these claims of "he didn't have the talent for senior football" is just attempting to re write history. Its not like Ravel did not ever play at premier league level and looked like a fish out of water. His issue was 100% indiscipline, piss poor mentality and no self drive. Never EVER lack of talent for elite level.

Frankly If he was untalented as some of you would have us believe. There is no good reason why clubs from EPL to the Serie A kept taking the gamble of signing him.
 
He should be on the bench as an option and if really desperate then given 5-10min to see how he performs.
 
The Constant Gardener said:
He's ready.

Would offer something more in attack than the paucity we have now.
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I don't think he understands the game enough to be thrown in. He needs to learn to create spaces for other places. Right now Ibra does all the running and space creation.
Needs to learn to press from the front too -- in tandem
 
He is too lightweight yet, let him grow physically a little.
 
Lots of generational talents just didn’t have the mental drive or right coaching or motivation to get to the top level or maintain it. Or things happen outside of football that you just cannot overcome.

Bojan krkic at the age of 16 broke into the Barca first team and managed to exile Ronaldinho.

Adriano looked like an R9 clone.

Both fell off a cliff
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I don't buy ANY of this at all.
Discipline, mentality and drive have absolutely nothing to do with talent. They are instead the tools that help a person mould, nurture and fulfill talent. Ravel did not have those 3 most important tools that take an individual from merely talented to .a successful elite level performer with honed talent. That is why the phrase 'hard work trumps talent" even exists.

All these claims of "he didn't have the talent for senior football" is just attempting to re write history. Its not like Ravel did not ever play at premier league level and looked like a fish out of water. His issue was 100% indiscipline, piss poor mentality and no self drive. Never EVER lack of talent for elite level.

Frankly If he was untalented as some of you would have us believe. There is no good reason why clubs from EPL to the Serie A kept taking the gamble of signing him.
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Basically you’re just saying you want to call mental capacities ‘tools’ instead of ‘talents’. But naming it differently doesn’t change how it works.

In reality, some people are more cut out for some extreme tasks based on their make up and early formation. That is what normally is referred to as talent. Anyone can pick up the same tool and use it freely, but anyone can’t just pick up C Ronaldo’s extreme single-minded motivation for training and use it. For him, it works as a talent, and for anyone weighing up wether to invest €12m for him in 2003 as well. I say if it walks like a talent and quacks like a talent, it makes more sense to call it a talent than a tool.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I don't buy ANY of this at all.
Discipline, mentality and drive have absolutely nothing to do with talent. They are instead the tools that help a person mould, nurture and fulfill talent. Ravel did not have those 3 most important tools that take an individual from merely talented to .a successful elite level performer with honed talent. That is why the phrase 'hard work trumps talent" even exists.

All these claims of "he didn't have the talent for senior football" is just attempting to re write history. Its not like Ravel did not ever play at premier league level and looked like a fish out of water. His issue was 100% indiscipline, piss poor mentality and no self drive. Never EVER lack of talent for elite level.

Frankly If he was untalented as some of you would have us believe. There is no good reason why clubs from EPL to the Serie A kept taking the gamble of signing him.
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Agreed, you are absolutely correct.

Sometimes the things that separate players is hard work, discipline and application. The difference between some championship Players and top EPL ones can be simply these qualities.

How often have we seen decent players win top honors , getting regular football in quality squads? Or even the “why does the coach keep picking him” players ? And how many of us even playing at a Lower level ourselves see absolute beasts playing at that level and wonder why they didn’t go higher.

A player with drive and hard work ethics can surpass an extremely talented player who isn’t bothered. In the modern game, where fitness is absolutely paramount , you won’t see any Matt Le Tissiers around the top of the game.

I’d suggest that part of Uniteds problems has been a culture of players lacking a lot of these mental aspects, because we see them raise their game when it suits. It’s a club wide example of a player who has talent but doesn’t work hard enough to make the most of it.
 
The only way he'd have got minutes was if it was till the early rounds of the league cup, we'll wait until next year I think.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Lots of generational talents just didn’t have the mental drive or right coaching or motivation to get to the top level or maintain it. Or things happen outside of football that you just cannot overcome.

Bojan krkic at the age of 16 broke into the Barca first team and managed to exile Ronaldinho.

Adriano looked like an R9 clone.

Both fell off a cliff
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Funny you picked the two players who didn’t lack drive or motivation but were literally crushed by pressure and suffered from depression.
A guy like Ben Arfa, whom I liked tbh, lacked all the mental qualities to be a top top player.

Bojan went on record saying it was too much too soon and didn’t feel protected at all.
Adriano lost his way after his fathers death.

Edit: sorry I didn’t see you mentioned things outside of football. Mea culpa
 
imonkmc said:
He should be on the bench as an option and if really desperate then given 5-10min to see how he performs.
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The coaches are already watching him play at a lower level and analyzing his game extensively and they have obviously decided he’s not ready for that yet. I’m not sure why everyone is so desperate for a player to be thrown in at the deep end when even his coaches don’t think he’s ready.
 
Hoof the ball said:
He's ready.

If you're young enough you're good enough if we're desperate enough.
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Every training clip I've seen of him is just scoring top bins with no goalies in net. I'd rather him come in when he's ready rather than chucking a 16 year old kid in for the sake of it. for that to happen he'd either have to be the second coming of Messi/Ronaldo or there's a massive injury crisis.
 
L1nk said:
There is leagues difference between looking good at youth and then looking good at senior level
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Yes but if you can score reams of goals to the extent that you are the highest goalscorer in the history of an U18 competition when you have just turned 17 and you are also physically gifted, the signs are very good if you avoid injuries, you will play at a high level.
 
honirelandboy said:
Not all young players have the physiques of Ronaldo or Rooney,
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It's not as if he's some will'o'the-wisp. He's a giant with a good strong frame and won't be too long before he's bouncing senior defenders the way he's doing it to teenagers.
 
Have you guys watched him play against U21 competition, and that is far away from senior level? What have you seen in his game that made you think he is ready for PL at the moment?
 
KevinJoh said:
Have you guys watched him play against U21 competition, and that is far away from senior level? What have you seen in his game that made you think he is ready for PL at the moment?
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I’d say it’s desperation at the lack of goals from our strikers. He’d be starved of service as we don’t have a team that feeds the front player as a priority.
 
KevinJoh said:
Have you guys watched him play against U21 competition, and that is far away from senior level? What have you seen in his game that made you think he is ready for PL at the moment?
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EXACTLY. I do not see the dominance I expected in the way he was reported to be.

He doesn’t dominate. I remember watching Rashy at his age. Welbz. Mason. They absolutely dominated when they were let loose. Obi Martin is good. Efficient. But no way is he some dominant force that’s deserving of the first team squad.
 
KevinJoh said:
Have you guys watched him play against U21 competition, and that is far away from senior level? What have you seen in his game that made you think he is ready for PL at the moment?
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It's literally trying something new with a very promising young striker who has lots of tools to be a great scorer. It may or may not work. Don't think anybody is advocating for him to be our starting striker. Hojlund takes the fewest shots per 90 in the top five leagues. He's taking one shot per 90 minutes. He can be clinical with these shots but no striker taking such few shots is ever going to score in a sustainable manner. He'll probably improve this over time but I'd be confident Chido could improve this. Macheda was not a good player but he scored some really important goals and Rashford obviously came in at a young age and did fantastically. If we're getting nothing from the existing strikers, what have you to lose.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Yes but if you can score reams of goals to the extent that you are the highest goalscorer in the history of an U18 competition when you have just turned 17 and you are also physically gifted, the signs are very good if you avoid injuries, you will play at a high level.
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There have been loads of players over the years who have scored really high numbers at youth level only to never make any kind of impact at the professional level in the men’s game. In terms of levels, the Premier League is on a different planet to U18s. I don’t understand how some of you don’t get this.
 
Zumbi said:
There have been loads of players over the years who have scored really high numbers at youth level only to never make any kind of impact at the professional level in the men’s game. In terms of levels, the Premier League is on a different planet to U18s. I don’t understand how some of you don’t get this.
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He was signed as a first team back up. He's not just a high scorer at youth level, he's the highest scorer ever at U18 level and he's done it in roughly 2/3 of the games of his nearest competitors. He's outscored Balogun and Greenwood among that crop. Obviously the level isn't as high as senior football but he literally can't do anymore at this level to get an opportunity. What exactly is the big risk you're afraid of in giving 20 minutes to an extremely talented kid? It's not as if any of our senior strikers are doing anything beyond the bare minimum.
 
Anyone saying he's ready for the first team hasn't watched him play or doesn't appreciate the massive gulf between u18/reserves and the PL.
 
Leftback99 said:
Anyone saying he's ready for the first team hasn't watched him play or doesn't appreciate the massive gulf between u18/reserves and the PL.
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Agree, he struggled against more physical sides in U21 since making the move up from u18's. He needs to get comfortable at that level first before playing against Premiership level defenders.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
He was signed as a first team back up. He's not just a high scorer at youth level, he's the highest scorer ever at U18 level and he's done it in roughly 2/3 of the games of his nearest competitors. He's outscored Balogun and Greenwood among that crop. Obviously the level isn't as high as senior football but he literally can't do anymore at this level to get an opportunity. What exactly is the big risk you're afraid of in giving 20 minutes to an extremely talented kid? It's not as if any of our senior strikers are doing anything beyond the bare minimum.
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Do you have a reliable source stating he was signed as first team back up?

Seems to me he was signed as a very promising youth player, and is being used exactly as a very promising youth player would be used, not as how a first team back up would be used (ie settling in and playing in the youth teams, not going straight in to the first team squad).

And so what if he’s the highest scorer ever at U18? Again, the levels and quality of the PL are on a different planet to those at U18s.

We have a whole coaching set up that analyses the players in the different age groups and decides when they are ready to join first team training. And they don’t decide that based only on goals scored at u18 level - they analyze a whole bunch of different metrics to gauge a player’s suitability to move up. Greenwood was deemed to be at the right levels so was introduced to first team training. Same with Garnacho. Same with Rashford back in the day. And all of them did well enough in first team training that they earned minutes. That’s how it works.

Professional football clubs don’t just throw in teenagers to the first team because “what’s the big risk”. They have a whole host of different players at different ages and they make calculated assessments on when each player is ready to step into the first team, and it starts with them joining first team training sessions to see how they cope.
 
Zumbi said:
Do you have a reliable source stating he was signed as first team back up?

Seems to me he was signed as a very promising youth player, and is being used exactly as a very promising youth player would be used, not as how a first team back up would be used (ie settling in and playing in the youth teams, not going straight in to the first team squad).

And so what if he’s the highest scorer ever at U18? Again, the levels and quality of the PL are on a different planet to those at U18s.

We have a whole coaching set up that analyses the players in the different age groups and decides when they are ready to join first team training. And they don’t decide that based only on goals scored at u18 level - they analyze a whole bunch of different metrics to gauge a player’s suitability to move up. Greenwood was deemed to be at the right levels so was introduced to first team training. Same with Garnacho. Same with Rashford back in the day. And all of them did well enough in first team training that they earned minutes. That’s how it works.

Professional football clubs don’t just throw in teenagers to the first team because “what’s the big risk”. They have a whole host of different players at different ages and they make calculated assessments on when each player is ready to step into the first team, and it starts with them joining first team training sessions to see how they cope.
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Charlie McNeil scored a feckload at U18 level and he’s nowhere to be seen these days.
 
For those who have watched him play recently, how is he really? Came with quite a bit of publicity but haven't really heard about him after that.
 
moodyred said:
For those who have watched him play recently, how is he really? Came with quite a bit of publicity but haven't really heard about him after that.
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Well we haven’t had academy games for a while. He’s averaging a goal every 47 minutes for the U18s. Seven goals and one assist in seven games.

He’s been good but there’s a lot of room for improvement in his overall game. As expected, he just turned 17.

We’ll learn more when he starts getting regular minutes with the U21s.
 
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