Chido Obi

[londonredmaniac]

You are missing my point. Zlatan and Isak had plenty of technical ability and in-game intelligence; their touch was top class even at 16, 17, 18. Obi is a different player. He is a goalscorer, not a technician. You are talking about patience and giving plenty of examples, and I'm with you on that. IF the player shows ability for a top-class player, patience is extremely important, especially for a striker. In my opinion, Obi isn't showing any kind of Zlatan or Isak class potential. He is a good goalscorer at youth level, and he is even struggling a bit for the U21, that's it. He is nowhere near the potential of a Isak or Zlatan. At best, Obi can be a Lukaku player, but he wasn't good enough for United, so am I really wrong here? Trying to understand you here... so you think Etikete had a loose touch when he was 18? Isak? Zlatan? Do you think Obi will magically wake up one day and have a great first touch? What kind of player do you think he can be for United?

It's interesting, as the examples of Isak and more so Zlatan or Rooney are very representative of players that always looked like they'd make the grade whilst scoring goals etc, there was so much more to their technical ability.

Being a pure goal scorer at youth level, as demonstrated by the likes of McNeil/Brandy/Wilson/Macheda is a different metric all around and doesn't translate in the same way at senior level, let alone elite senior level.

However there is a massive middle ground between those types of examples....so we shall see how he develops.

I've not seen Obi at U21 level. I caught some of the 18's and obviously his first team outings. He looks like he has something but you'd assume he's a few years away and has a ton of development he needs before showing he has that genuine first team potential.

He was unlucky particularly in that Fulham cup game. He came on when we were struggling and created chances and was really good. If one of those goes in for him you never know what that might have done. But hopefully his time comes.

 

[Rossa]

You are missing my point. Zlatan and Isak had plenty of technical ability and in-game intelligence; their touch was top class even at 16, 17, 18. Obi is a different player. He is a goalscorer, not a technician. You are talking about patience and giving plenty of examples, and I'm with you on that. IF the player shows ability for a top-class player, patience is extremely important, especially for a striker. In my opinion, Obi isn't showing any kind of Zlatan or Isak class potential. He is a good goalscorer at youth level, and he is even struggling a bit for the U21, that's it. He is nowhere near the potential of a Isak or Zlatan. At best, Obi can be a Lukaku player, but he wasn't good enough for United, so am I really wrong here? Trying to understand you here... so you think Etikete had a loose touch when he was 18? Isak? Zlatan? Do you think Obi will magically wake up one day and have a great first touch? What kind of player do you think he can be for United?

Nowhere near anyones potential when talking about a 17 year old is hyperbole however you look at it. At 17, your body can develop in so many ways. There are very few players that are great at 17 and keep progressing at that rate. If you are gangly and have a slight body build at 17, you may very well grow into it at 23 and be a top player. Kane wasn't special at 17 - look at him, not deemed very good technically. Where was Lewandowski at 17? He was turned down by Hødd in the Norwegian league 3 system at 19 in 2007 so perhaps not all that great. He wasn't considered very good technically...

Also, I've talked to a former Swedish top level player who played against Zlatan several times and said he was good but not that special when playing in Sweden. He improved massively after. At 17 Zlatan was barely breaking into Malmö in Sweden. At 19 he was sold to Ajax where he really started to grow as a footballer.

Robin Van Persie played at youth teams in the Netherlands at 17. Drogba was an amateur player at 17 and didn't sign a professional contract before he was 21.

“Between 19 and 23 is when players develop the most — physically, tactically and mentally. Before that, they are raw materials.”
— Ralf Rangnick

Claiming you can see a gulf in talent between players aged 17 and how they will be in their prime is speculative at best.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Feels like a lot of Nigerians emigrated to Denmark a few years back. Always takes me aback for a few seconds when I see names like Chidi Obi and Chinazaekpere Dorgu being Danish players.

Weirdly enough for whatever reason, the likes of Saka and Nwaneri for England don't have the same effect.

It's definitely also pretty new for Danish footballers at the highest level. For the longest time, the Danish national team was extremely homogenous in terms of ethnic background, but there was always this talk around getting our own Zlatan. The likes of Martin Braithwaite, Yussuf Poulsen and Pione Sisto were some of the first with significant presence in the team. But it's a great development - hopefully Dorgu and Chido Obi will be role models for other young Danish footballers with immigrant background.

 

[Mickson]

What are you basing this off of? I've never noticed anything particularly off with his first touch. He's not like Lukaku where the ball repeatedly bounces off him like a trampoline.

I think his technique is good - how else is he so adept at finding the corners when finishing?

The main flaw in his "in-game intelligence" to me seems to be that he's a bit too selfish in trying to shoot, but that's not surprising for a young striker and not something that'll be set in stone (but it's also good that he has a clear hunger for goals).

The only area of his all-round game where it would be nice if it was a bit better is probably his dribbling - he doesn't seem an Isak or Ekitike in his running with the ball - but then many top class number 9s aren't eg Kane and Haaland.

What else am I missing exactly?

Watching him play. Do you think the ball would bounce of Hojlund if he played U18 football at United? Do you think he has a good first touch, good technique? I'm not saying his first touch is the worst in the world - just that I don't think he is good enough in these details. His all-around game just isn't very impressive, it's not like he is a bad player but I see him as a fantastic goalscorer, not much else. And that will be enough (as someone said earlier, for McNeill, for Macheda, etc etc.) But it wont be enough for leading the line at United.

 

[Mickson]

Nowhere near anyones potential when talking about a 17 year old is hyperbole however you look at it. At 17, your body can develop in so many ways. There are very few players that are great at 17 and keep progressing at that rate. If you are gangly and have a slight body build at 17, you may very well grow into it at 23 and be a top player. Kane wasn't special at 17 - look at him, not deemed very good technically. Where was Lewandowski at 17? He was turned down by Hødd in the Norwegian league 3 system at 19 in 2007 so perhaps not all that great. He wasn't considered very good technically...

Also, I've talked to a former Swedish top level player who played against Zlatan several times and said he was good but not that special when playing in Sweden. He improved massively after. At 17 Zlatan was barely breaking into Malmö in Sweden. At 19 he was sold to Ajax where he really started to grow as a footballer.

Robin Van Persie played at youth teams in the Netherlands at 17. Drogba was an amateur player at 17 and didn't sign a professional contract before he was 21.

“Between 19 and 23 is when players develop the most — physically, tactically and mentally. Before that, they are raw materials.”
— Ralf Rangnick

Claiming you can see a gulf in talent between players aged 17 and how they will be in their prime is speculative at best.

He is nowhere near the potential of Zlatan and Isak. I don't see what's hyperbole, is it hyperbole to say that Samuel Lusale doesn't have the same potential (nowhere near) as Garnacho. If no, why?

As I said earlier. It's DIFFERENT when you have the technical ability, the skillset, the tools. Zlatan had that, even at 17. Isak too. Obi doesent. I don't see whats so strange about it. Very few are Zlatan or Isak.

 

[Rossa]

He is nowhere near the potential of Zlatan and Isak. I don't see what's hyperbole, is it hyperbole to say that Samuel Lusale doesn't have the same potential (nowhere near) as Garnacho. If no, why?

As I said earlier. It's DIFFERENT when you have the technical ability, the skillset, the tools. Zlatan had that, even at 17. Isak too. Obi doesent. I don't see whats so strange about it. Very few are Zlatan or Isak.

You focus on two players. Zlatan just broke through at Malmö at 17! Kane, a great technical player, Lewandowski equally so were not considered top tier technical talents. One could very well argue both have been at least as good strikers as Zlatan ever was. Drogba wasn't even playing professional football at the time - very solid technically. Conveniently, you left out responding to those other players.

To claim that a 17 year old is this or that is as I said speculative at best. Odi is tall, gangly and will fill out, most likely. With that, it is not unprecedented that his technique will improve with his frame.

 

[Rossa]

It's definitely also pretty new for Danish footballers at the highest level. For the longest time, the Danish national team was extremely homogenous in terms of ethnic background, but there was always this talk around getting our own Zlatan. The likes of Martin Braithwaite, Yussuf Poulsen and Pione Sisto were some of the first with significant presence in the team. But it's a great development - hopefully Dorgu and Chido Obi will be role models for other young Danish footballers with immigrant background.

Ever seen the show Sunday? Let's not hope there will be too many of those instead

 

[Zed is not dead]

How did Isak get into the « world class potential at 17 » discussion? If anything he’s a good example of a player that showed good enough potential at youth level, then had a bumpy development before having a breakthrough season at Newcastle. Even when Newcastle bought him he was far from a sure bet and little people could have predicted he’d be a 20 goals a season striker

 

[Hammondo]

You focus on two players. Zlatan just broke through at Malmö at 17! Kane, a great technical player, Lewandowski equally so were not considered top tier technical talents. One could very well argue both have been at least as good strikers as Zlatan ever was. Drogba wasn't even playing professional football at the time - very solid technically. Conveniently, you left out responding to those other players.

To claim that a 17 year old is this or that is as I said speculative at best. Odi is tall, gangly and will fill out, most likely. With that, it is not unprecedented that his technique will improve with his frame.

I'm not sure I know anyone who improved technically when filling out. I would also say Obi is far more developed than most his age.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You are missing my point. Zlatan and Isak had plenty of technical ability and in-game intelligence; their touch was top class even at 16, 17, 18. Obi is a different player. ....

No. You rather keep missing my obvious point. Look at Harry Kane now. At 17 he had next to none of the skills he currently has as an elite creative striker. Frankly Obi right now is 3 times the player Kane was at 17 in tetms of baseline skills. Yet through the right coaching and his own hard work see what he developed into. The fact you bring up a Zlatan as an example makes my earlier point for me. You are using goldeen children as the gold standard to project development. It next to never works that way.

The idea a 17 year old can't improve their touch nor game awareness significantly is laughable in the extreme. An Obi also doesn't ever have to reach the level of technical touch a Zlatan had to become a top striker for us. Bar Zlatan, Rooney , Yorke, RVP and Cantona. Not even a Van Nistelrooy or Cole had a Zlatan level of technical finesse. They were both godly forwards for us.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I'm not sure I know anyone who improved technically when filling out. I would also say Obi is far more developed than most his age.

Obi is no where near what he will physically fill out into though. One should not conflate his current big size for his age with what he will be when filled out

 

[Hammondo]

No. You rather keep missing my obvious point. Look at Harry Kane now. At 17 he had next to none of the skills he currently has as an elite creative striker. Frankly Obi right now is 3 rimes the played Kane was at 17. The fact you bring up a Zlatan as an example makes my earlier point for me. You are using goldeen children as the gold standard to project development. It next to never works that way.

The idea a 17 year old can't improve their touch nor game awareness significantly is laughable in the extreme.

I see your point but not all aspects of the game are the same for improvement.

Most players physically develop and learn the game better with time. Technique and touch etc are usually areas that don't improve so much. They are more natural talents.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I see your point but not all aspects of the game are the same for improvement.

Most players physically develop and learn the game better with time. Technique and touch etc are usually areas that don't improve so much. They are more natural talents.

I'd argue almost all players tend to have a better touch at 23+ than they ever had as teens. Unless they are golden children who tend to start with almost the complete skill set of touch and technique. Which is what seperates those naturally gifted with those who instead have to acquire more of skills than hone pure talent.

One thing I believe that improves touch is a given player's abilty to understand their actual talent weaknesses and learning to keep it simple enough to negate it. That can enable them to reach a level of compentency in such an area negating them being a liability in that area during games.

 

[gold]

Nowhere near anyones potential when talking about a 17 year old is hyperbole however you look at it. At 17, your body can develop in so many ways. There are very few players that are great at 17 and keep progressing at that rate. If you are gangly and have a slight body build at 17, you may very well grow into it at 23 and be a top player. Kane wasn't special at 17 - look at him, not deemed very good technically. Where was Lewandowski at 17? He was turned down by Hødd in the Norwegian league 3 system at 19 in 2007 so perhaps not all that great. He wasn't considered very good technically...

Also, I've talked to a former Swedish top level player who played against Zlatan several times and said he was good but not that special when playing in Sweden. He improved massively after. At 17 Zlatan was barely breaking into Malmö in Sweden. At 19 he was sold to Ajax where he really started to grow as a footballer.

Robin Van Persie played at youth teams in the Netherlands at 17. Drogba was an amateur player at 17 and didn't sign a professional contract before he was 21.

“Between 19 and 23 is when players develop the most — physically, tactically and mentally. Before that, they are raw materials.”
— Ralf Rangnick

Claiming you can see a gulf in talent between players aged 17 and how they will be in their prime is speculative at best.

Zlatan talent was extremely obvious already at Malmö. Whoever you talked to sounds absolutely clueless if they pretend he wasn’t a special talent.

 

[Powderfinger]

No. You rather keep missing my obvious point. Look at Harry Kane now. At 17 he had next to none of the skills he currently has as an elite creative striker. Frankly Obi right now is 3 rimes the played Kane was at 17. The fact you bring up a Zlatan as an example makes my earlier point for me. You are using goldeen children as the gold standard to project development. It next to never works that way.

The idea a 17 year old can't improve their touch nor game awareness significantly is laughable in the extreme.

Harry Kane at 17 was holding his own against senior professionals in League 1. At 18 he played a big part in saving Millwall from relegation from the Championship. Of course he got a lot better over time but Chido at 17 nearly 18 isn't at the same level much less three times the player.

 

[Hammondo]

I'd argue almost all players tend to have a better touch at 23+ than they ever had as teens. Unless they are golden children who tend to start with almost the complete skill set of touch and technique. Which is what seperates those naturally gifted with those who instead have to acquire more of skills than hone pure talent.

One thing I believe that improves touch is a given player's abilty to understand their actual talent weaknesses and learning to keep it simple enough to negate it. That can enable them to reach a level of compentency in such an area negating them being a liability in that area during games.

Really, like who? To my knowledge the improvement is only small.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Harry Kane at 17 was holding his own against senior professionals in League 1. At 18 he played a big part in saving Millwall from relegation from the Championship. Of course he got a lot better over time but Chido at 17 nearly 18 isn't at the same level much less three times the player.

Yet a season later, Kane had two spells with teams at the top of the Championship that didn't exactly go well. In fact, Spurs would have probably sold him around 2014 if a decent offer had come in.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

People always think that time will automatically make someone good enough

What a load of crap. I don’t know about Obi, but that’s not what people say when they talk about giving a player or manager time. And you probably know it.

What I’m reading in this thread is different opinions about Obi and his talent. Some are saying that the fact that he’s not ready for the first team doesn’t mean he’ll never be because he still have time to improve a lot. They are basically saying that young players tend to improve with time which is, of course, a fact.

What they are NOT saying is that he’ll “automatically” improve enough with time to become a Man Utd player. Others, like yourself, make the case that he’s not showing signs of becoming good enough. Which is fair. But it’s not fair to put words in other people’s mouths.

Look at the difference between Sesko and Hojlund. People said that the latter would come good, but he just didn't have the technical ability. You can't learn that at 20 or even 18. His touch and technique just isn't good enough.

Hojlund’s two seasons were like day and night and his second obviously wasn’t indicative of his actual ability. While it was good for both parties he moved on he started quite promising in very tough circumstances, however people try to rewrite his time here. Had we progressed as a team and had he not had egocentric children around him he would probably have done fine and improved.

 

[Rossa]

Zlatan talent was extremely obvious already at Malmö. Whoever you talked to sounds absolutely clueless if they pretend he wasn’t a special talent.

Well, perhaps you watched him more extensively than someone his own age who regularly played against him? He said he was very good, but it was after Malmø that he really excelled.

 

[Rossa]

I'm not sure I know anyone who improved technically when filling out. I would also say Obi is far more developed than most his age.

Most tall, lanky players. When your body stops growing in height and you gain more muscle, you get more control. Kane improved massively, Lewandowski etc.

 

[Hammondo]

Most tall, lanky players. When your body stops growing in height and you gain more muscle, you get more control. Kane improved massively, Lewandowski etc.

Obi isn't lanky, and as others said Kane was good at a similar age. You don't suddenly become technical.

 

[Rossa]

Obi isn't lanky, and as others said Kane was good at a similar age. You don't suddenly become technical.

No, not suddenly. As Ragnick pointed out, between 18-23 do most talents turn into professional players or not. Klopp said the same. It’s more strange to think players can’t improve with age and as they get used to their bodies. If you are done growing at 16, you will more easily fit into your body than one who is still growing at 18-19. and Odi is quite lanky, but most tall 17 year olds are.

 

[gold]

Well, perhaps you watched him more extensively than someone his own age who regularly played against him? He said he was very good, but it was after Malmø that he really excelled.

I was alive back then living in Sweden and I remember very well the buzz around him yeah. It was on a different level. And you claimed he was a former Swedish top level player who played regularly against him? When Zlatan played for Malmö they were mostly playing in the second division so no idea who that is supposed to be but he clearly wasn’t paying much attention. He wasn’t offered a trial at arsenal that he himself rejected only for then go and sign for Ajax for being some nobody. He was a very special talent.

 

[Hammondo]

No, not suddenly. As Ragnick pointed out, between 18-23 do most talents turn into professional players or not. Klopp said the same. It’s more strange to think players can’t improve with age and as they get used to their bodies. If you are done growing at 16, you will more easily fit into your body than one who is still growing at 18-19. and Odi is quite lanky, but most tall 17 year olds are.

No one said that, that's a clear strawman argument.

What people are saying is that technical ability is for the most your natural ability, players improve in other areas far more than technical ability.

 

[Mickson]

No. You rather keep missing my obvious point. Look at Harry Kane now. At 17 he had next to none of the skills he currently has as an elite creative striker. Frankly Obi right now is 3 times the player Kane was at 17 in tetms of baseline skills. Yet through the right coaching and his own hard work see what he developed into. The fact you bring up a Zlatan as an example makes my earlier point for me. You are using goldeen children as the gold standard to project development. It next to never works that way.

The idea a 17 year old can't improve their touch nor game awareness significantly is laughable in the extreme. An Obi also doesn't ever have to reach the level of technical touch a Zlatan had to become a top striker for us. Bar Zlatan, Rooney , Yorke, RVP and Cantona. Not even a Van Nistelrooy or Cole had a Zlatan level of technical finesse. They were both godly forwards for us.

He won't improve his touch or technique that much, as the last poster said. It's not laughable. It's called understanding football basics. He might get stronger, a bit smarter, but he won't improve his touch or technique enough to be a United standard striker. I can't say anything about Kane at 17 since I didn't see him then, but there's a lot more Charlie McNeill or Macheda examples than Kanes...

 

[trevor newnham]

As well as ability, one must have the desire to succeed, to work hard . I'm not saying these boys don't. But I'll never forget a British Lion telling me much of the difference between 1st and 3rd team players is fitness and desire. 90 % perspiration, 10 % inspiration (Thomas Edison)

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He won't improve his touch or technique that much, as the last poster said. It's not laughable. It's called understanding football basics. He might get stronger, a bit smarter, but he won't improve his touch or technique enough to be a United standard striker. I can't say anything about Kane at 17 since I didn't see him then, but there's a lot more Charlie McNeill or Macheda examples than Kanes...

We will simply never agree on this. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

No one said that, that's a clear strawman argument.

What people are saying is that technical ability is for the most your natural ability, players improve in other areas far more than technical ability.

Don't conflate techincal ability with touch and awareness. Touch and awareness can always improve, yet that is what someone is claiming can't EVER improve, which IMO is strange. Technical ability is talent. Touch and awareness is acquired skill. That is why the likes of Rooney earlier in their career thanks to higher talent in terms of technique looked a far better player than a CR7. But a CR7s superior ability to improve his touch and awareness skill made him over take a Rooney as a matured player. Plus eventually be able to compete with a technique anormally like Messi to create a rivalry.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Harry Kane at 17 was holding his own against senior professionals in League 1. At 18 he played a big part in saving Millwall from relegation from the Championship. Of course he got a lot better over time but Chido at 17 nearly 18 isn't at the same level much less three times the player.

Former Spurs John Mcdermot said of Harry Kane as a teenager: "was not the best in any category, but the best at trying to improve in all of them' . As a teen of 17 Kane was barely known outside Spurs circles. Obi in comparison by 16 has even been listed in official lists of top 30 players his age group. Any idea Kane was "very good" as a teen let alone any where near Obi as a player at that age is just pure revisionism.

 

[Rossa]

No one said that, that's a clear strawman argument.

What people are saying is that technical ability is for the most your natural ability, players improve in other areas far more than technical ability.

I literally gave you a quote from Ragnick further up where he said those words.

You really think you are born as a technical player? Zidane said he always walked or ran with a ball. When he went to school, he would be with a ball - dribbling, running with it, shooting it into brick walls etc - that's deliberate play, also called practice. You think a technical 13 year old who stops training intensively stays a better technical player than someone who is a professional footballer.

I know there are many who actually believe that technical ability is an inherent thing that some have and some don't, but your physical development is also partly responsible for your technical ability at youth levels. Some have a gangly frame with far too long legs or arms, but when they grow into their body, they can improve immensely. But of course, very few will ever reach Messi's level. There's even academic research showing that some players can experience a decline in technical ability in a growth spurt, but then improve as they grow into their frame.

 

[Powderfinger]

Former Spurs John Mcdermot said of Harry Kane as a teenager: "was not the best in any category, but the best at trying to improve in all of them' . As a teen of 17 Kane was barely known outside Spurs circles. Obi in comparison by 16 has even been listed in official lists of top 30 players his age group. Any idea Kane was "very good" as a teen let alone any where near Obi as a player at that age is just pure revisionism.

Kane came through at a different time, you didn't have top 30 lists of 17 year old players, such lose attention to academy football, and the social media hype machine for these kinds of players. But Kane was obviously a very impressive teenage player, even if he was mainly known within Spurs. You don't play senior football on loan at 17-18, essentially skipping U21/reserve football entirely, unless you are very highly regarded. He scored something like 7 in 13 in the 2012 run in, assisting a couple as well, to play a big role in keeping Millwall up. He obviously made a huge leap in his development between 18 and 21, like almost all players, but from the little footage that exists of him at the time you can see he was already doing things like scoring from outside the box, dropping deep into pockets then turning to make progressive passes to runners, etc. All at much less efficient and decisive level of course, but you can see the skills that would make him famous when further developed.

Chido is on top 30 lists because he scored a bazillion goals for Arsenal U18s playing against a lot of kids much smaller, slower, and weaker. At least at Arsenal, he didn't show any of the skills that Kane was already showing at 17/18 in terms of shooting from distance or link up play. I haven't watched his United matches so he may have developed further.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Kane came through at a different time, you didn't have top 30 lists of 17 year old players, such lose attention to academy football, and the social media hype machine for these kinds of players...

This isn't accurate at all. By the time a Kane was 17 social media had been around at least 6 years. Even definitive list of top teenage talents on the planet were around in old media like 'world soccer magazine" as far back as 2007. Even In 2011 the likes of goal.com had definitive 'hot 100 talents to look out for" and he was no where near them rankings.

Mc Dermot's assement of Kane's talent at the time was spot on. Any attempt to retroactively put him in brackets of "the best of the best" in his age group at the time is just flat out wrong. He was a good player but not considered a top tier talent. That is why even post Milwall his loan stints were hardly eye catching.

Frankly He is one superstar player who literally debunks any claim players do not drastically improve on what their baseline was as teens. He is a player who has got better and better with age.

 

[Powderfinger]

This isn't accurate at all. By the time a Kane was 17 social media had been around at least 6 years. Even definitive list of top teenage talents on the planet were around in old media like 'world soccer magazine" as far back as 2007. Even In 2011 the likes of goal.com had definitive 'hot 100 talents to look out for" and he was no where near them rankings.

Mc Dermot's assement of Kane's talent at the time was spot on. Any attempt to retroactively put him in brackets of "the best of the best" in his age group at the time is just flat out wrong. He was a good player but not considered a top tier talent. That is why even post Milwall his loan stints were hardly eye catching.

Frankly He is one superstar player who literally debunks any claim players do not drastically improve on what their baseline was as teens. He is a player who has got better and better with age.

The social media focus on academy football and "starboys" is 100x what it was circa 2010, really not the same at all. Harry Kane scored a ton of U18 goals but those clips didn't go to Youtube and get cut together by AcademyScout or whoever on X.

I never said Kane was viewed as the best of the best or that he didn't improve massively from 18-22. I only reacted to the statement that Chido Obi is currently three times the player Harry Kane was at a similar age 17-18, which was just total nonsense. Kane was a really good player at that age - skipped U21/reserve football completely, starting striker for England U19s, playing and scoring against senior professional footballers at age 17-18. Chido hasn't done anything notable above U18 level and may not even be the best striker in his U21 side. That doesn't mean he couldn't improve hugely or have a great career.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The social media focus on academy football and "starboys" is 100x what it was circa 2010, really not the same at all. Harry Kane scored a ton of U18 goals but those clips didn't go to Youtube and get cut together by AcademyScout or whoever on X.

I never said Kane was viewed as the best of the best or that he didn't improve massively from 18-22. I only reacted to the statement that Chido Obi is currently three times the player Harry Kane was at a similar age 17-18, which was just total nonsense. Kane was a really good player at that age - skipped U21/reserve football completely, starting striker for England U19s, playing and scoring against senior professional footballers at age 17-18. Chido hasn't done anything notable above U18 level and may not even be the best striker in his U21 side. That doesn't mean he couldn't improve hugely or have a great career.

Revisionism. Kane at 17 wasn't rated in the best 100 teenagers on the planet. Let alone in Europe. Nothing to do with him not being good. He just wasn't . He also skipped reserve football because he was at a mere Spurs. If he was as special as you claim his loan record after Millwall after skipping the level would have reflected it. It never did. Which goes to my initial point. Most players who make it to star dom outside "the golden child' bracket tend to end up far better than they were ever originally thought to be.

As for Obi. Research it properly. He is very highly rated in his age bracket in a way a Kane never was. He also has a crazy good under 18s repetoir. (Yet again so did a McNeil. )

A seperate matter to if he will ever fulfill that potential. Let alone get to a Kane level. I only feel he has hope of emulating a Kane because most of those who handle his coaching have said he has a similar professional attitude and appetite for improvement. Thus far IMO he I'd progressing as expected. He is already better all round than he was when he crossed from Arsenal. Yet even though he has miles to go, I believe there is good reason to think he has a chance to make it with us.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Revisionism. Kane at 17 wasn't rated in the best 100 teenagers on the planet. Let alone in Europe. Nothing to do with him not being good. He just wasn't . He also skipped reserve football because he was at a mere Spurs. If he was as special as you claim his loan record after Millwall after skipping the level would have reflected it. It never did. Which goes to my initial point. Most players who make it to star dom outside "the golden child' bracket tend to end up far better than they were ever originally thought to be.

As for Obi. Research it properly. He is very highly rated in his age bracket in a way a Kane never was. He also has a crazy good under 18s repetoir. (Yet again so did a McNeil. )

A seperate matter to if he will ever fulfill that potential. Let alone get to a Kane level. I only feel he has hope of emulating a Kane because most of those who handle his coaching have said he has a similar professional attitude and appetite for improvement. Thus far IMO he I'd progressing as expected. He is already better all round than he was when he crossed from Arsenal. Yet even though he has miles to go, I believe there is good reason to think he has a chance to make it with us.

The only revisionism is yourself.

Harry Kane was averaging nearly a goal a game in u18s at 16 years old. He played above his age group for England, something very few do. And was pushed to senior football at just 17. He was one of the most widely talked about youth players in the country. His early loan spells were good, he wasn’t rated less until later when managers didn’t actually know how to use him. Trying to deploy him as a target man.

Claiming someone was never good because of one poor loan is absolute nonsense too. Serge Gnabry sat on the bench for Tony Pulis, are you going to try claim he wasn’t a top youth player?

If you’re looking for random internet lists here he is listed as an English wonderkid in FM.

https://www.fmscout.com/i-966-English-Wonderkids-in-FM-2011.html

Kane and Obi were very similar at youth level in away. Incredible goalscorers who were physical early developers which often led to people claiming everything they do good is just because they are big. They were pushing into senior football early and when they didn’t take it by absolute storm they were claimed to be not that good despite actually doing well.

 

[lysglimt]

You list two midfielders in your comparison and a RW. Not a single tall athletic striker who is comparable to chido. If you can make a judgement on him when he is 17 like this, you probably would have written off most of CO92 and anyone who wasnt breaking through at 17-18.
Here is a list of compareable strikers-
Zlatan -19 malmo, took another 2 years at ajax for him to get going and get his juve move
isak- gave first decent goalscoring season at sociadad at 21-22, before having a poor season and getting a move to castle at a price everyone else was not willing to pay.
ekitike was at reims, scored a few goals, psg gobbled him up and spat him out in 2 years, before getting a breakout season at 22.
Lewa had his first big season at 22 for dortmund, before that he was at polish league club playing regularly.
lukaku, needed 2 years at anderlecht, was too raw for chelsea, still went on wba on loan, then sold to everton and eventual move to united.

How you can pass judgement so quickly on a 17 year old i do not know. Even if he doesnt become a united level player, he still deserves a chance . I also consider people who brought him in good enough judges of talent to not waste time and spcae at united by keeping him. Also if he ends up just becoming a "good goalscorer" he will have agreat career, here or elsewhere and repay our investment many times over. I think if halaand moved here at 15-16 like we tried to, similar could be said about his game that he was a good goalscorer but dint have the package (many would argue still doesnt), but sometimes all you need to be is a good goalscorer, specially if the game is about you know, scoring goals.

Or Ruud van Nistelrooy who scored 2 goals in 21 matches for den Bosch at 21 years of age

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The only revisionism is yourself.

> , You wish.

..... He was one of the most widely talked about youth players in the country.

Pure lies. At 16-17 was known for being unspectacular. He was often described as " technically sound without pace nor stand out flair and a consistent eye for goal". He always had a good goal rate at under 18 level but NEVER the kind to put him in golden child category. Many expected him to make it to epl never but to NEVER be elite.

Mc Dermot's assemement of him, as head of Spurs youth development at the time 100% lines up with this. To claim he "was one of the most talked about youth' in his age catergory that had the likes of Wilshere and Sterling making folks lose their minds (to name just two) is laughable. The likes of even Will Keane were miles ahead of him at the time. Pretending it's a crime to admit Harry Kane wasn't considered a elite tier talent at that age is just strange behaviour.

Claiming someone was never good because of one poor loan is absolute nonsense too. ....

Rather I'm responsible for. what I state. Never what nonsense YOU imagine of it. I said rather your claims he was "so good at 17/18 he skipped under 21 ball" and ' because he was so ready for the men's game" (Im paraphrasing heee) runs into serious doubt as to it's validity given how unspectacular his loan spells before he broke out at Spurs were. How that registered in your head as "Harry Kane was shit' is YOUR problem alone. Not mine.

My stance from the start has been Harry Kane was NEVER considered elite
tier as a youth prospect. He was just a good solid prospect, able to hold his own in the men's game physically whose obsessive propensity for self improvement and professional attitude later ensured by the time he hit 21 he was ready to explode as player. Because he turned most of his none stand out attributes into 7/10s. I never EVER implied 'he was shit". At most I said unlike an Obi, he hadn't been rated in the elite talent tier of his age group. But am convinced Obi could likely tread a similar trajectory of development (injury freedom permitting). Because most reports I've heard from his youth coaches and academy heads in charge of him have implied he has the similar professional attitude and obessive propensity for learning and self improvement Kane has.

Things that made Kane overtake so many golden boys from his age group as senior pros.

 

[Maradona10]

> , You wish.
Pure lies. At 16-17 was known for being unspectacular. He was often described as " technically sound without pace nor stand out flair and a consistent eye for goal". He always had a good goal rate at under 18 level but NEVER the kind to put him in golden child category. Many expected him to make it to epl never but to NEVER be elite.

Mc Dermot's assemement of him, as head of Spurs youth development at the time 100% lines up with this. To claim he "was one of the most talked about youth' in his age catergory that had the likes of Wilshere and Sterling making folks lose their minds (to name just two) is laughable. The likes of even Will Keane were miles ahead of him at the time. Pretending it's a crime to admit Harry Kane wasn't considered a elite tier talent at that age is just strange behaviour.

Rather I'm responsible for. what I state. Never what nonsense YOU imagine of it. I said rather your claims he was "so good at 17/18 he skipped under 21 ball" and ' because he was so ready for the men's game" (Im paraphrasing heee) runs into serious doubt as to it's validity given how unspectacular his loan spells before he broke out at Spurs were. How that registered in your head as "Harry Kane was shit' is YOUR problem alone. Not mine.

My stance from the start has been Harry Kane was NEVER considered elite
tier as a youth prospect. He was just a good solid prospect, able to hold his own in the men's game physically whose obsessive propensity for self improvement and professional attitude later ensured by the time he hit 21 he was ready to explode as player. Because he turned most of his none stand out attributes into 7/10s. I never EVER implied 'he was shit". At most I said unlike an Obi, he hadn't been rated in the elite talent tier of his age group. But am convinced Obi could likely tread a similar trajectory of development (injury freedom permitting). Because most reports I've heard from his youth coaches and academy heads in charge of him have implied he has the similar professional attitude and obessive propensity for learning and self improvement Kane has.

Things that made Kane overtake so many golden boys from his age group as senior pros.

"Franco Baldini was sporting director and he wrote off Harry, saying he wasn't good enough for the Premier League. Tottenham wanted me to get rid of him" - Tim sherwood (Spurs manager)
He went out on loan and dint impress much, levy wanted sherwood to play soldado. It was finally in 2013-14 season when sherwood gave him a chance in last 6-7 games, he scored a few goals and never looked back . People can tell lies, but its there for everyone to see .

 

[Champ]

Is this the Harry Kane thread?

 

[TwoSheds]

At least it's not the usual lazy Drogba comparisons I suppose. Bit of a stretch though.