god this forum loves to write people off as soon as possible doesn’t it? Amorim after barely a few months, Obi at 17 years old 
very odd
very odd
Chido Obi
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood), Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) celebrate a fantastic victory as Manchester United won 2-0 in the Derby. They celebrate the changes Carrick has made, discuss our new coaching team and find time to play a Stupid Game. Enjoy!
god this forum loves to write people off as soon as possible doesn’t it? Amorim after barely a few months, Obi at 17 years old
very odd
Yeah sit on your high horse and laugh, I wonder who will be right in the end. You need to SHOW potential. You don't automatically become a great United player or manager just because you're new or young, you know that right?
At 17, I think he’s shown a fair bit. You clearly don’t watch youth football. 32 league goals in 18 games at Arsenal is nothing?
No idea how good he’ll become or whether that’s a marker for a great future player, but your argument doesn’t fly. Not everyone is like Rooney or Owen, and probably a good thing.
I have watched every game he has played, so yes, I watch a lot of youth games. It means nothing to score at U18 level, and you would know that if you have followed youth football. It's funny that you suggest he is some kind of late bloomer, when it is the exact opposite. He scored plenty at U18 level BECAUSE he developed early.
Just got a nice assist to Lacey
I’m not claiming he’s an early developer or a late bloomer. That’s you mate. I’m merely stating he’s shown enough for his age to be considered to have high potential. You’re not really actually explaining why you think he doesn’t, or why he hasn’t shown enough.
This is just daft - he has pretty much throughout his youth career been played 2 years above his age group...
He was scoring an average of almost 2 goals per game for Arsenal's u18s as a 15 year-old.
Even if he had developed "early", such an age difference will have mitigated that fact.
In addition, even though he may have been tall for his age, he was gangly. His goals rarely relied on out-muscling opponents. If anything the defenders 2 years older than him have tended to be stronger than him. He hasn't had it plain-sailing.
I'm U18 he was way bigger than anyone else when I saw him play.
Very indeedgod this forum loves to write people off as soon as possible doesn’t it? Amorim after barely a few months, Obi at 17 years old
very odd
Poor technique and touch to set up lacey for the goal, pretty sure he was taking a first touch but ball flew and luckily landed on lacey's feet. Lucky. Am i doing this right ?
Halaand and lukaku were too, they did well enough. Hell lets assume he has a peter crouch like career, he ll still be sold for enough to justify investing in him.
I don't think you know what early development means.
I'm not saying he doesn't have potential, of course he has. But there are levels. I have explained plenty about his touch and technique not being at the required level to lead the line for a club like Manchester United. I'm sure he will be a decent player. He has scored a lot of goals at U18 level but so have many, many players. Charlie McNeill, Federico Macheda and I remember a Liverpool player who has hyped, called Adam Morgan I think. I needed to see him twice to see that his technique was inadequate but because he scored goals people couldn't see that. Obi is a great goalscorer, he is not a great footballer, and to be successful outside U18 you need to be a great footballer. His record at even U21 level, which is a very, very poor level, isn't that great either. He is clearly struggling a lot more there compared to U18.
He only got the ball because he was so big and bullied small defenders
He's 17 ffs.
This level of analysis is obscene.
This level of analysis is obscene.
But Lukaku and haaland were big for adults as well, Obi isn't.
On this forum, you've peaked technically and physically at 17. There's only some nous and tactical understanding that remains, and normally that peaks at 19. Interestingly, average age for Ballon d'Or winners seems to be about 27-28 with many past 30, which seems odd as you are at a retirement home at 30.god this forum loves to write people off as soon as possible doesn’t it? Amorim after barely a few months, Obi at 17 years old
very odd
He isn't going to physically develop much more, he's developed early, like Rooney did.
The caf paradox also called the « not good enough conundrum »
You are just speculating, and you are likely wrong. Rooney maxed out at 5'9. Chido is about 5-6 inches taller already. Rooney had adult strength as a teenager and his early development was in muscle development and strength.
Obi, in contrast, is yet to really develop strength and muscle which is in keeping with others of his age. The early development he has had really was mainly in height and a little bit of power. He will still get much stronger as he feels out his skinny frame.
A better example in the present squad of a player with Rooney-like early physical development and who has maxed out physically is Kukonki.
I didn't mention height.
Obi in U18 was more developed in terms of strength and muscle. He bullied everyone like he was an adult. When he cannot do that he's looked average.
What is the argument here?
He’s too young to be written off saying he can’t be a good/great player.
We can all agree he’s not like Yamal talent where he’s bursted through.
We need to understand this isn’t career mode on FIFA.
He’s too young to be written off saying he can’t be a good/great player.
We can all agree he’s not like Yamal talent where he’s bursted through.
We need to understand this isn’t career mode on FIFA.
We have presented our arguments. I was just wondering the same, but the other way around. I have not seen one argument for why Obi is going to succeed. Just "he's 17", "he's young", "United have bought him" and none of that is an argument for why Obi will succeed. By the way, Obi is 18 in the next few days!
People on the CAF just can't handle that someone is seeing anything different. They don't know how to react. Put the head in the sand and scream "He's 17!!!!" try giving an argument. A real one.
Mate, you're not a scout. Why pretend to be one?
You have zero insight or knowledge into who will develop into a great football player and who won't. Anything can happen, as happens with nearly all football players that play at a high level now. They are not widely regarded as big talents from a young age. Very few are.
I am very confident that I am very good at seeing prospects, predicting and analyzing. Also this is a forum where we surely are going to give our opinion on things. Yes, anything can happen and very few will succeed.
The good thing is that he is 17 and is naturally going to get stronger and add more muscle organically. So, let's be patient and see how he develops over the next couple of years.
It is a good thing he is not bullying them at U-21. This might enable him to improve on other facets of his game. My disagreement with you is your claim that he has maxed out his growth when there is still obvious room for him to grow size and strength wise.
You are probably good at seeing prospects where everyone else can see them. There is more to scouting and talent acquisition than just "he has a loose touch, he will never make it".
My point is that most football players that play at a high level now, in the Premier League, La Liga, Ligue 1, Bundesliga or whatever league you choose were not widely recognised as huge football talents when they young. In fact, it is probably likely that they were behind Chido Obi at 17, so just assuming that a player isn't going to make it because you don't see it is irrelevant. What is the point of even discussing whether a 17 year old is going to make it or not? He is developing, and has all the time in the world. Is it not better to support players in the academy?
He’s still just a kid. It’s way too early to say how good he can be in a few years. Obviously if you for some reason expected him to be the next Haaland that was always extremely unlikely to happen.
I don't even understand what you're discussing. Some make it, some don't, yes? I don't think Obi will, and I have explained why. I have followed United's academy for 20 years and only one have surprised me: McTominay. So I think you can tell with pretty certainty who will make it or not if they're 18. I find it rather ironic that no one would say a thing if I said "Biancheri won't make it" but if you're saying anything about Obi... what's the difference? Other than that Biancheri actually have scored more in less minutes played than Obi this season...
Say what? Zlatan's transfer to Ajax (when he was 19) was a Swedish record sale at the time, the buzz around him was huge. He didn't have consistently great performances, but his talent was blindingly obvious.
Exactly - talent, and then he became a great player. He wasn’t a great player at 19 - he was a talent. Very, very few players are world class that early. So he had a transfer to Ajax at 19. odi is 17!!! And he has featured for United.
I think at the very least we’ve got a player who will be able to handle the physicality of the men’s game and is a decent profile for a substitute when we need to knick a goal even if he hasn’t shown it yet. I think he’s been very poor in his cameos to be honest and was used to mock Rasmus, give him the starts etc when he looks miles off even Rasmus at his worst.
Long term who knows? I think what we’ve done is hedged our bets like we seem to be doing a lot more of recently. He has a decent reputation and will fetch a proper fee if we sell him on in the future. He’s already a cert to make it in the pro game. This is how you make money for a big club from youth football. He might very well not be good enough to play for a club like united until he’s 25/26 and he’ll be long gone by then. I don’t see him exploding here in the next few years if I was to put money on it.
Long term who knows? I think what we’ve done is hedged our bets like we seem to be doing a lot more of recently. He has a decent reputation and will fetch a proper fee if we sell him on in the future. He’s already a cert to make it in the pro game. This is how you make money for a big club from youth football. He might very well not be good enough to play for a club like united until he’s 25/26 and he’ll be long gone by then. I don’t see him exploding here in the next few years if I was to put money on it.
Comparing Zlatan to Obi haha. Zlatan was a world class talent, with a huge frame and EXCELLENT technical ability, dribbling. He was destined for success. Obi doesen't even stand out at U21 level. He is a good goalscorer, like Charlie McNeill, or Biancheri. So what makes Obi better than Biancheri or Charlie McNeill for example? Obi is also 18 in a few days, so people can soon stop saying "he's 17!!" as an argument for someone becoming good. Imagine saying that about every 17 year old academy player.
Very, very few at 17, unless they are already established players are destined for success. Ravel Morrison was as big a talent as they get. Moderate success at the best of times. Certainly not a success compared to his innate talent.
Most players don’t have an Owen, Rooney, Yamal, Messi trajectory. It’s interesting reading about it, but most players develop from a talent to a player in their twenties.
But feel free to have your own ideas on this.
Indeed!
Oh, and Zlatan was 19 years and 292 days when he signed for Ajax, so better talk about him as a 20 year old?
That is exactly what I'm saying that you can't. It is such a bizarre thing to say.
There are thousands of football players that reached top level that could have played in our academy at a young age, and you would have said they would not make it because they did not have world recognisable talent at that age. Some examples: Vardy, Drogba, van Nistelrooy, Giroud, Kanté, Mahrez, Rodri, Mbeumo, Cavani, Bruno Fernandes, Falcao, Lewandowski, Gyökeres, Watkins et cetera. You get the idea - the list goes on and on.
Very few players are stand out talents that you can easily predict will make it at the top level, but the majority of top players simply come out of "nowhere".
Need I remind everyone about a little thing called "Golden Boy" award? Let me put in some examples of why you shouldn't rush with judgments:
Winners of the Golden Boy award:
2003 Rafael van der Vaart 20 years, 304 days
2004 Wayne Rooney 19 years, 50 days
2005 Lionel Messi 18 years, 173 days
2006 Cesc Fàbregas 19 years, 212 days
2007 Sergio Agüero 19 years, 188 days
2008 Anderson 20 years, 237 days
2009 Alexandre Pato 20 years, 102 days
2010 Mario Balotelli 20 years, 13 days
2011 Mario Götze 19 years, 189 days
2012 Isco 20 years, 245 days
2013 Paul Pogba 20 years, 264 days
2014 Raheem Sterling 20 years, 12 days
2015 Anthony Martial 20 years, 14 days
2016 Renato Sanches 19 years, 67 days
2017 Kylian Mbappé 18 years, 307 days
2018 Matthijs de Ligt 19 years, 127 days
2019 João Félix 20 years, 17 days
2020 Erling Haaland 20 years, 123 days
I cut it off at 2020, because the jury is still out on the rest. But from what I can see, 12 out of the 18 winners have not managed to fulfill their "potential". I'd wait a bit before passing any judgment on Obi. He might be a Rooney, or Pato, A Haaland or a Martial.
Winners of the Golden Boy award:
2003 Rafael van der Vaart 20 years, 304 days
2004 Wayne Rooney 19 years, 50 days
2005 Lionel Messi 18 years, 173 days
2006 Cesc Fàbregas 19 years, 212 days
2007 Sergio Agüero 19 years, 188 days
2008 Anderson 20 years, 237 days
2009 Alexandre Pato 20 years, 102 days
2010 Mario Balotelli 20 years, 13 days
2011 Mario Götze 19 years, 189 days
2012 Isco 20 years, 245 days
2013 Paul Pogba 20 years, 264 days
2014 Raheem Sterling 20 years, 12 days
2015 Anthony Martial 20 years, 14 days
2016 Renato Sanches 19 years, 67 days
2017 Kylian Mbappé 18 years, 307 days
2018 Matthijs de Ligt 19 years, 127 days
2019 João Félix 20 years, 17 days
2020 Erling Haaland 20 years, 123 days
I cut it off at 2020, because the jury is still out on the rest. But from what I can see, 12 out of the 18 winners have not managed to fulfill their "potential". I'd wait a bit before passing any judgment on Obi. He might be a Rooney, or Pato, A Haaland or a Martial.
Of course you are right; Ballon d'Or has an average age of 27-28. The most common trajectory for a footballer, or most careers, sports etc, is not to peak in your late teens or early 20s. We do love a golden boy, however, and we relish in the stories of those that break through at a very young age. Who knows why, but it's quite common. Doesn't make it any more right.