China bullies Hong Kong

Cal?

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mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/opinion/china-bullies-hong-kong.html

Not that many of you will care much about it, but just another part of the dreadful 2016.
 

Pexbo

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mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/opinion/china-bullies-hong-kong.html

Not that many of you will care much about it, but just another part of the dreadful 2016.
Such a shit thing to say.
 

whatwha

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Why the feck have you not posted a clickable link? Very phone-unfriendly.
 

11101

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The general impression is that Britain are more interested in China's money than holding up their end of the joint declaration.
What can they do about it? Threaten China? China doesn't give a shit about the UK.

I don't know what people expected. HK is part of China whether they like it or not and baiting the government was only ever going to end one way.
 

adexkola

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On Tuesday, more than 1,000 lawyers marched silently through Hong Kong to condemn China and support the pro-independence lawmakers. Britain and the United States, which 20 years ago promised to hold Beijing to account, must do better than issuing mild statements urging China not to undermine confidence in the city’s autonomy.
Like what? Provoke a conflict in China's literal backyard?
 

Cal?

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What can they do about it? Threaten China? China doesn't give a shit about the UK.

I don't know what people expected. HK is part of China whether they like it or not and baiting the government was only ever going to end one way.
Condemn China's action? Put some international pressure on China to act according to a deal they signed? Help to get the EU & US (in these last few months before Trumpaggedon) to apply pressure?
 

JustAFan

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Agreement or no agreement didn't we all expect eventually Hong Kong to be folded into China with no special rules for them?

Not much anyone can really do about it, China don't give a shit.
 

Nighteyes

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China don't give a shit what anyone thinks. Good luck trying to pressure them into doing anything.
 

11101

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Condemn China's action? Put some international pressure on China to act according to a deal they signed? Help to get the EU & US (in these last few months before Trumpaggedon) to apply pressure?
They said a few words on it once, but it falls on deaf ears and no-one really wants to pick a fight over such a minor thing.
 

Cal?

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Agreement or no agreement didn't we all expect eventually Hong Kong to be folded into China with no special rules for them?

Not much anyone can really do about it, China don't give a shit.
This is exactly the issue, China backs out of their joint declaration after 19 years out of a guaranteed 50 and yet, most Brits don't give a shit.
 

Cal?

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They said a few words on it once, but it falls on deaf ears and no-one really wants to pick a fight over such a minor thing.
The minor thing Hong Kong has a bigger population than the likes of Denmark, Finland, etc and home to the 6th largest stock exchange in the world. :rolleyes:
 

11101

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The minor thing Hong Kong has a bigger population than the likes of Denmark, Finland, etc and home to the 6th largest stock exchange in the world. :rolleyes:
What does China not allowing two elected officials to take office who refused to take the prescribed oath have to do with any of that?
 

Cal?

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What does China not allowing two elected officials to take office who refused to take the prescribed oath have to do with any of that?
The fact is that China have completely ripper up the one country two system thing to do that.

It's not about refusing to let those 2 take office, it's about what they did to stop them.
 

11101

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The fact is that China have completely ripper up the one country two system thing to do that.

It's not about refusing to let those 2 take office, it's about what they did to stop them.
They would have been able to take office if they had taken the oath like everyone else does. They decided to try and make a statement by refusing to take the oath and it backfired.
 

17Larsson

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Minor thing?

I feel for Hong Kongers. Their identity and culture is slowly eroding away and there seems to be very little they can do about it
 

Revan

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I had a conversation about how Hong Kong is going with a couple of Hong Kong-ish professors a month back, and needless to say they were very sad and angered with how the things are going there. Unfortunately, it seems that it is an unstoppable process and no-one can do anything about it.
 

Cal?

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They would have been able to take office if they had taken the oath like everyone else does. They decided to try and make a statement by refusing to take the oath and it backfired.
Again, I'm not condoning the action of those 2, but arguing against what China are doing to stop them.

It's almost like China decides it was okay to use a machine gun to retaliate against people throwing stones.
 

ThierryHenry

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Most of the replies on this page has proven my point.
They have really. It's incredibly sad what's happening (and going to happen) to the people of Hong Kong, and their culture and leadership. Will the protests start up again Cal? I don't know how significant (or familiar) the current issue is.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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There are many on the Caf who think that China is preoccupied with economic matters and this is just saber rattling. Be it Hongkong, Tibet, Senkaku, South China Sea (Phillipines, Vietnam)

Well, their saber rattling is directly connected to their economic interests, and everyone who live or have family in the region will tell you so. This is another coming of the Heavenly Court.
 

11101

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They have really. It's incredibly sad what's happening (and going to happen) to the people of Hong Kong, and their culture and leadership. Will the protests start up again Cal? I don't know how significant (or familiar) the current issue is.
The protests have started again. I doubt they will ever get close to 2014 again, the people are not as interested this time around.
 

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This is another coming of the Heavenly Court.
Is there anyone who thought otherwise? China used to believe and they still believe that they're the centre of human civilisation, economic sanctions isn't going to change that nor is a military expedition going to change that, in fact I can't think of any tools (physical or diplomatic) that will stop China from pursuing agendas inline with their national interests.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Is there anyone who thought otherwise? China used to believe and they still believe that they're the centre of human civilisation, economic sanctions isn't going to change that nor is a military expedition going to change that, in fact I can't think of any tools (physical or diplomatic) that will stop China from pursuing agendas inline with their national interests.
I've debated with plenty of people in the old US Election thread or elsewhere about this point. Without understanding the mentality that permeates the Chinese, it's very easy to dismiss their militaristic expansion and hardline stance towards neighbors. The fact is the common plebs there regularly refer to Koreans, Japaneses or Vietnameses by derogatory terms, in their social media, popular culture, etc... Making scapegoat out of 'unruly subjects' is an age old tactic of the Central Kingdom.
 

Cal?

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They have really. It's incredibly sad what's happening (and going to happen) to the people of Hong Kong, and their culture and leadership. Will the protests start up again Cal? I don't know how significant (or familiar) the current issue is.
The protests have started again. I doubt they will ever get close to 2014 again, the people are not as interested this time around.
Probably not over this particular issue, a lot of people are unhappy with the actions of those 2 and believe China to be justified in doing what they're doing. They don't see the dangers of once China start acting this way, there's no stopping them the next time and the time after. Very soon, direct intervention will become the norm.

Is there anyone who thought otherwise? China used to believe and they still believe that they're the centre of human civilisation, economic sanctions isn't going to change that nor is a military expedition going to change that, in fact I can't think of any tools (physical or diplomatic) that will stop China from pursuing agendas inline with their national interests.
They'll still pursue those agendas, but they'll not want to be in direct conflict with the US any time soon. But if Trump decides to pivot away from Asia, we'll see how much Xi is actually like Putin, I expect annexation of neighboring territory sooner rather than later.

I've debated with plenty of people in the old US Election thread or elsewhere about this point. Without understanding the mentality that permeates the Chinese, it's very easy to dismiss their militaristic expansion and hardline stance towards neighbors. The fact is the common plebs there regularly refer to Koreans, Japaneses or Vietnameses by derogatory terms, in their social media, popular culture, etc... Making scapegoat out of 'unruly subjects' is an age old tactic of the Central Kingdom.
There's no doubt about that. The ruling party likes to deflect attention onto Japan whenever people are unhappy, and most of the mainland Chinese think they're entitled to play the Japan WWII aggressor card forever and ever. But if you've lived in Asia, you'd see it has very little to do with what happened over 70 years ago (in fact Mao thanked the Japanese for helping him get into power), they treat all neighboring countries the same way. Korea (who's never ever tried to invade China but have been invaded by China multiple times down the years) are treated the same way, especially with the THAAD installation planned. Mongolia are seen as the one which got away and there are plenty in the far right in China who want them brought back into the country.
 

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I think it's inevitable, we care more about the economy than democracy, so China will play it cool and do it little by little. No one will cause a fuss.
 

11101

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Inevitable really. It's been obvious for 10+ years they had no intention of sticking to the 50 year agreement. imo the only reason they don't do it sooner is they want all the pro-democracy supporters in one place.

The protesters are stuck in the middle. They're too peaceful and not causing enough disruption to make anybody in Beijing take any notice, but if they did, its China, who knows how disproportionate the response might be.
 

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Things are really kicking off here. This might get nasty.
I really hope that the police stops escalating things soon.
 

Rooney24

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Yeah. Following it on the bbc live text. Doesnt sound or look good.

But really what will happen here at the end ? Not much right?. I mean eventually the police will disperse these people one way or the other and the bill will still pass at the end.

China slowly and piece by piece swallowing up HK is inevitable.
 

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I am dealing with a firm of auditors in Hong Kong, who have sent their staff home early today because of the civil unrest.

They are not certain that there will be any public transport tomorrow either, and if there isn't the staff don't have to come in.