China infiltrated USA's top companies.

[PedroMendez]

No country is going to become as dominant as the US has been in the past WWII era. China isn't going to replace the US as global super power. They'll erode the dominance of the US.

In the past the US (+Europe) have been setting the rules for international economic interaction. WTO, Gatt, IMF or the WB are all institutions of Western creation to universalize their ideas of an international economic system (~liberal rules based system). TPP & TTIP would have been two big corner stones to “lock in” these values.

The Chinese had to go along with all of this in the past, but their own vision of an international economic system looks different to the vision of western policy makers. The stronger the Chinese economy gets, the more they'll be able to change existing institutions, disregard them or create alternative ones. We see examples for all three developments.

It is legitimate and understandable that the Chinese want to have their voice heard. The problem is, that they don't really seem to fancy the “rules based” approach. That can create quite significant problems.

 

[SwansonsTache]

No country is going to become as dominant as the US has been in the past WWII era. China isn't going to replace the US as global super power. They'll erode the dominance of the US.

In the past the US (+Europe) have been setting the rules for international economic interaction. WTO, Gatt, IMF or the WB are all institutions of Western creation to universalize their ideas of an international economic system (~liberal rules based system). TPP & TTIP would have been two big corner stones to “lock in” these values.

The Chinese had to go along with all of this in the past, but their own vision of an international economic system looks different to the vision of western policy makers. The stronger the Chinese economy gets, the more they'll be able to change existing institutions, disregard them or create alternative ones. We see examples for all three developments.

It is legitimate and understandable that the Chinese want to have their voice heard. The problem is, that they don't really seem to fancy the “rules based” approach. That can create quite significant problems.

The US had an unique opening post WW2, the industrial hubs of Europe and essentially all their competition were bombed to rubble, while they were untouched. The Marshall help also was great for continuous business with parts and maintenance etc.

 

[Rams]

One child policy -> heavily aging population in the next few decades -> reduced workforce, shit social safety net -> higher mortality rate, failed population distribution (ghost cities) -> waste of money and continual drain to maintain.

Add to that the competing, cheaper labour markets in SEA, India, their internal unrest with territories like Tibet, Xinjiang, potential dissatisfaction from the younger generations regarding the resurgence of Confucianism/traditional hierarchy vs liberal order/interaction with outside world (the West).

It’s not as rosy as it looks. In fact, if India sorts their shit out, they have more of a chance to be dominant economically.

Nothing is ever black & white. I can also go picking in to the items you rightly highlight. There has never been a Superpower in the World that hasn’t had its weaknesses & threats.
China is already close to being the Worlds economic Superpower. I think China will soon take over from the States as the next Economic Superpower one main reason: they have the largest & most educated workforce in the World.

India first needs to sort out its massive social economic problems before they can even think of challenging the likes of the US & China. The poverty in India is frightening. And then they need to sort out the dramatic state of their infrastructure. They are still a long way behind.

 

[predator]

I work in telecoms around the uk and pretty much all the new equipment used by the main providers (Vodafone, O2, EE) is Huawei. It used to be predominantly Nokia equipment.

 

[Dan]

UK cyber security agency backs Apple, Amazon China hack denials

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...apple-amazon-china-hack-denials-idUSKCN1MF1DN

 

[ThierryHenry]

One child policy -> heavily aging population in the next few decades -> reduced workforce, shit social safety net -> higher mortality rate, failed population distribution (ghost cities) -> waste of money and continual drain to maintain.

Add to that the competing, cheaper labour markets in SEA, India, their internal unrest with territories like Tibet, Xinjiang, potential dissatisfaction from the younger generations regarding the resurgence of Confucianism/traditional hierarchy vs liberal order/interaction with outside world (the West).

It’s not as rosy as it looks. In fact, if India sorts their shit out, they have more of a chance to be dominant economically.

In time, China will become a democracy as well. No-one can say when but as long as they continue to develop, a rich, educated population will ultimately demand it.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I work in telecoms around the uk and pretty much all the new equipment used by the main providers (Vodafone, O2, EE) is Huawei. It used to be predominantly Nokia equipment.

Think nearly all telco provided home broadband modems all over the world are Huawei these days. Imagine the possibilities!

 

[Isotope]

Such a shame, their language is so fecking hard to learn. Otherwise it might be useful to learn it for the future business.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Not some random CFO either, it's a daughter of one of the founders

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Huawei faces catastrophe in the technology cold war

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...e-in-the-technology-cold-war?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[Cal?]

In time, China will become a democracy as well. No-one can say when but as long as they continue to develop, a rich, educated population will ultimately demand it.

The rich, educated Chinese will just leave. The CCP will not move towards democracy, in fact, Xi has moved the party further away since he’s been in charge and all but declared himself Emperor for life.

 

[Charles Miller]

Why exactly does it matter who made chess?

China-India rivaltry. Any youtube video about those countries i saw them fight.

 

[Nucks]

China becoming the number 1 super power isn't a question of if, it's a question of when. Suggesting China will not surpass the USA is the height of arrogance. Their economy is already the same size, or bigger, I think it reached parity 2 years ago, and is on schedule to be 50% larger within another decade.

China not surpassing the USA, is like the USA not surpassing the UK in the 20th century. I'm sure there were hardline British folks who refused to admit the possibility that the USA would surpass them as the pre-eminent global power. It's really just math. Demographically, China is to the USA what the USA was to the UK.

Luckily for the rest of the world, China is historically isolationist and introspective. Just ask all their neighbors that for most of the last 3,000 years China could have conquered in an afternoon (not literally). So far they've continued this largely isolationist introverted foreign policy since their return to power. The only thing to really worry about, are the territories China considers to be historically Chinese.

This could be derailed, but something catastrophic would need to happen. War, natural disaster, something you can't predict.

 

[Silva]

China becoming the number 1 super power isn't a question of if, it's a question of when. Suggesting China will not surpass the USA is the height of arrogance. Their economy is already the same size, or bigger, I think it reached parity 2 years ago, and is on schedule to be 50% larger within another decade.

China not surpassing the USA, is like the USA not surpassing the UK in the 20th century. I'm sure there were hardline British folks who refused to admit the possibility that the USA would surpass them as the pre-eminent global power. It's really just math. Demographically, China is to the USA what the USA was to the UK.

Luckily for the rest of the world, China is historically isolationist and introspective. Just ask all their neighbors that for most of the last 3,000 years China could have conquered in an afternoon (not literally). So far they've continued this largely isolationist introverted foreign policy since their return to power. The only thing to really worry about, are the territories China considers to be historically Chinese.

This could be derailed, but something catastrophic would need to happen. War, natural disaster, something you can't predict.

Good news, I asked China's neighbours. Bad news is Taiwan and Tibet were unavailable for comment. Mongolia, Russia and a dozen other countries told me to feck off.

 

[Cal?]

China becoming the number 1 super power isn't a question of if, it's a question of when. Suggesting China will not surpass the USA is the height of arrogance. Their economy is already the same size, or bigger, I think it reached parity 2 years ago, and is on schedule to be 50% larger within another decade.

China not surpassing the USA, is like the USA not surpassing the UK in the 20th century. I'm sure there were hardline British folks who refused to admit the possibility that the USA would surpass them as the pre-eminent global power. It's really just math. Demographically, China is to the USA what the USA was to the UK.

Luckily for the rest of the world, China is historically isolationist and introspective. Just ask all their neighbors that for most of the last 3,000 years China could have conquered in an afternoon (not literally). So far they've continued this largely isolationist introverted foreign policy since their return to power. The only thing to really worry about, are the territories China considers to be historically Chinese.

This could be derailed, but something catastrophic would need to happen. War, natural disaster, something you can't predict.

Err... don’t know where you get your data from. The US GDP is still roughly 60% more than China’s.

Population isn’t everything. Otherwise India will be much higher up the list.

As for China not being expansionist, you got to be joking, just ask all the countries they have annexed down the years. Even now they’re still eyeing a lot of their neighbors.

 

[Raoul]

Err... don’t know where you get your data from. The US GDP is still roughly 60% more than China’s.

Population isn’t everything. Otherwise India will be much higher up the list.

As for China not being expansionist, you got to be joking, just ask all the countries they have annexed down the years. Even now they’re still eyeing a lot of their neighbors.

Not to mention the fact that China is far behind in terms of military power.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Not to mention the fact that China is far behind in terms of military power.

But that's exactly because of their isolationist policy as @Nucks said. Besides they haven't been in events like the Cold War, Gulf Wars etc which would give them an excuse to ramp up their military to levels anywhere close to the USA.

Interesting thing is, the big difference in GDP between the 2 is actually thanks to the higher spending and domestic production of USA. If China decided to compete on that front, they'll probably be even in ten years.

 

[crappycraperson]

China is also expanding it's influence by trapping third world countries in a debt trap. Sri Lanka for example has already handed over control of a port or two to Chinese companies .

 

[MDFC Manager]

China is also expanding it's influence by trapping third world countries in a debt trap. Sri Lanka for example has already handed over control of a port or two to Chinese companies .

Maldives and some African countries too, no? Things not too Rosy with the Pakistan project too.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Maldives and some African countries too, no? Things not too Rosy with the Pakistan project too.

China will soon "own" half of Africa. They build infrastructure for some Countries as a "trade" for ownership of rights to mining operations or oil.

 

[Cal?]

But that's exactly because of their isolationist policy as @Nucks said. Besides they haven't been in events like the Cold War, Gulf Wars etc which would give them an excuse to ramp up their military to levels anywhere close to the USA.

Interesting thing is, the big difference in GDP between the 2 is actually thanks to the higher spending and domestic production of USA. If China decided to compete on that front, they'll probably be even in ten years.

The higher spending and domestic production of the US also means they rely much less on foreign demand. China has a big issue with over production and it’ll only get worse, whilst their domestic market cannot sustain their economy.

 

[Cal?]

Not to mention the fact that China is far behind in terms of military power.

The gap is still very significant. China won’t even be able to take on Japan without resorting to nukes, never mind the US

 

[Sky1981]

Err... don’t know where you get your data from. The US GDP is still roughly 60% more than China’s.

Population isn’t everything. Otherwise India will be much higher up the list.

As for China not being expansionist, you got to be joking, just ask all the countries they have annexed down the years. Even now they’re still eyeing a lot of their neighbors.

Which country they annexed? Genuine question.

Taiwan?
Tibet?

 

[Don Alfredo]

The gap is still very significant. China won’t even be able to take on Japan without resorting to nukes, never mind the US

Seriously? How do we know that?

I have zero knowledge about that, but the occupation of those contested islands leads me to think that the countries in the region are scared of China‘s military power.

 

[Cal?]

Which country they annexed? Genuine question.

Taiwan?
Tibet?

A quick look at the size of China down the years, it's grown A LOT!

Also, the fact that the northern part of Vietnam was under Chinese rule for big portions of the last 2 millennia, yet China makes no claim to it; yet, Taiwan are somehow historically an inseparable part of China despite they didn't even land there till about 200 years ago. It was under Dutch, Japanese etc rule for far longer.

 

[Cal?]

Seriously? How do we know that?

I have zero knowledge about that, but the occupation of those contested islands leads me to think that the countries in the region are scared of China‘s military power.

Whilst not even the US are capable of invading China (and occupying), China's naval forces are far far behind even Japan.

Japan still have control over the Senkaku Islands. The contested islands that China are controlling are in the South China Sea, against the likes of Vietnam, Philippines.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

China becoming the number 1 super power isn't a question of if, it's a question of when. Suggesting China will not surpass the USA is the height of arrogance. Their economy is already the same size, or bigger, I think it reached parity 2 years ago, and is on schedule to be 50% larger within another decade.

China not surpassing the USA, is like the USA not surpassing the UK in the 20th century. I'm sure there were hardline British folks who refused to admit the possibility that the USA would surpass them as the pre-eminent global power. It's really just math. Demographically, China is to the USA what the USA was to the UK.

Luckily for the rest of the world, China is historically isolationist and introspective. Just ask all their neighbors that for most of the last 3,000 years China could have conquered in an afternoon (not literally). So far they've continued this largely isolationist introverted foreign policy since their return to power. The only thing to really worry about, are the territories China considers to be historically Chinese.

This could be derailed, but something catastrophic would need to happen. War, natural disaster, something you can't predict.

A quick glance at the territory of the Han Dynasty vs Modern Day China shows that this is simply untrue.

China's inability to conquer additional land for the most part of its history was due to the natural disadvantage of an agricultural population against the highly aggressive and mobile nomadic steppes tribes that constantly threatened its northern border. As a result, they for the most part expanded southward. The relative 'isolationist and introspective' foreign policy only really started under the Ming Dynasty since Vietnam proved too diffcult to annex and govern, their last attempt at colonial rule lasted for 20 years. Province of Xianjiang and Tibet (former territories of Tibetan Empire) were annexed under the Qing Dynasty, as late as the 18th century.

 

[Sky1981]

A quick look at the size of China down the years, it's grown A LOT!

Also, the fact that the northern part of Vietnam was under Chinese rule for big portions of the last 2 millennia, yet China makes no claim to it; yet, Taiwan are somehow historically an inseparable part of China despite they didn't even land there till about 200 years ago. It was under Dutch, Japanese etc rule for far longer.

Forget the last 2 millenia. 200 years ago American still lives in britain.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

A quick look at the size of China down the years, it's grown A LOT!

Also, the fact that the northern part of Vietnam was under Chinese rule for big portions of the last 2 millennia, yet China makes no claim to it; yet, Taiwan are somehow historically an inseparable part of China despite they didn't even land there till about 200 years ago. It was under Dutch, Japanese etc rule for far longer.

Not for a lack of trying. The last invasion (with the intent to colonise) was in 1787, last open war in 1979, last military conflict in 1988.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

China becoming the number 1 super power isn't a question of if, it's a question of when. Suggesting China will not surpass the USA is the height of arrogance. Their economy is already the same size, or bigger, I think it reached parity 2 years ago, and is on schedule to be 50% larger within another decade.

China not surpassing the USA, is like the USA not surpassing the UK in the 20th century. I'm sure there were hardline British folks who refused to admit the possibility that the USA would surpass them as the pre-eminent global power. It's really just math. Demographically, China is to the USA what the USA was to the UK.

Luckily for the rest of the world, China is historically isolationist and introspective. Just ask all their neighbors that for most of the last 3,000 years China could have conquered in an afternoon (not literally). So far they've continued this largely isolationist introverted foreign policy since their return to power. The only thing to really worry about, are the territories China considers to be historically Chinese.

This could be derailed, but something catastrophic would need to happen. War, natural disaster, something you can't predict.

Depends how you judge a super power. China is so far behind the US in military terms it's laughable, so in terms of that power they are nothing. Right now that doesn't seem so relevant, but who knows if this could be important in the next 50 years or so, and if it does turn on that way then the US has a huge advantage.

 

[Sky1981]

Not for a lack of trying. The last invasion (with the intent to colonise) was in 1787, last open war in 1979, last military conflict in 1988.

1940s most of the worlds then 3rd country was under british, portugal, france, spain under colonialism. Half the asia are under japan. China herself was invaded by 8 european countries. Remind me again how the commonwealth exist, and how in earth does the phillipines (which is china direct neighbour) still speaks Spanish, and the african speaks french in some parts of it.

The last open war of the world is done by usa and her allies including britain in iraq.

But yeah, china is the evil of the world.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

1940s most of the worlds then 3rd country was under british, portugal, france, spain under colonialism. Half the asia are under japan. China herself was invaded by 8 european countries. Remind me again how the commonwealth exist, and how in earth does the phillipines (which is china direct neighbour) still speaks Spanish, and the african speaks french in some parts of it.

The last open war of the world is done by usa and her allies including britain in iraq.

But yeah, china is the evil of the world.

Your point being?

No great power ever thought of itself as being the aggressor/oppresor. The pretext of war was and is defense of sovereignty and interest, be it the Roman Gallic Wars or the Tang Dynasty's War against Goturk. Britain has her Battle of Britain and US Pearl Harbour/ 911.

China is not the exception to the rule. They never had any compunction about territorial expansion, at the expense of the weaker neighbors.

 

[Manchie]

I'm wondering how Chinese respond to this, particularly against Canada.

 

[Adisa]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Cal?]

Forget the last 2 millenia. 200 years ago American still lives in britain.

The point I was making is that China defines their so called "historical territory" completely arbitrarily based on the needs of the CCP with no regards of historical facts.

Whilst that's what happens in most of the world - might is right - it's simply ridiculous to try to take the moral high ground at the same time as threatening all the neighbors.

 

[Sky1981]

The point I was making is that China defines their so called "historical territory" completely arbitrarily based on the needs of the CCP with no regards of historical facts.

Whilst that's what happens in most of the world - might is right - it's simply ridiculous to try to take the moral high ground at the same time as threatening all the neighbors.

How do you define your country then? How do you define England? Portugal? Spain? Where do you draw the line? Arbitrarily? Does the USA consults the Indian when they declare their nation.

Moral high ground? What moral High Ground. They didn't do anything militarily, they never bleat about being the "champion of democary" while bombing the shit out of another country, nor supplying arms right left center, and let's not forget how the CIA has their hands on half the world's election result. Name one country that has severed their relations with China because of being threatened? Name countries that the US embargoes one sidedly?

 

[Cal?]

How do you define your country then? How do you define England? Portugal? Spain? Where do you draw the line? Arbitrarily? Does the USA consults the Indian when they declare their nation.

Moral high ground? What moral High Ground. They didn't do anything militarily, they never bleat about being the "champion of democary" while bombing the shit out of another country, nor supplying arms right left center, and let's not forget how the CIA has their hands on half the world's election result. Name one country that has severed their relations with China because of being threatened? Name countries that the US embargoes one sidedly?

How many countries in the world has border disputes with basically every neighboring country? If their plan to take control of the South China Sea islands and the Senkakus is simply might is right, I’d actually respect their honesty. However their claim to either of those areas are strenuous at best, if not outright baseless.

Let’s not forget the Senkakus were clearly defined in the post WWII settlement treaties that neither the CCP or KMT voiced any concerns over. The only reason it’s become a dispute is that the United Nations discovered gas reserves under the islands.

They didn’t do anything militarily? Have you forgotten the naval bases propping up all over S China Sea?

How about the countries China has embargoed, go read up on what happened to Korea for daring to install some missile system INSIDE their country.

 

[Sky1981]

How many countries in the world has border disputes with basically every neighboring country? If their plan to take control of the South China Sea islands and the Senkakus is simply might is right, I’d actually respect their honesty. However their claim to either of those areas are strenuous at best, if not outright baseless.

Let’s not forget the Senkakus were clearly defined in the post WWII settlement treaties that neither the CCP or KMT voiced any concerns over. The only reason it’s become a dispute is that the United Nations discovered gas reserves under the islands.

They didn’t do anything militarily? Have you forgotten the naval bases propping up all over S China Sea?

How about the countries China has embargoed, go read up on what happened to Korea for daring to install some missile system INSIDE their country.

Whatever they did, is still incomparable to what the USA and her cronies does. Unless you believe everything they say about China in the west propaganda.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Whatever they did, is still incomparable to what the USA and her cronies does. Unless you believe everything they say about China in the west propaganda.

Your view of the world is as black & white/oversimplified as all those who believe 'Western propaganda'.

China has plenty of its own black marks throughout history (including some brutal treatment of its own people, let alone foreigners) but in modern history simply hasn't been able to project power in the way that the US or other Western powers have, so obviously it has less acts of foreign aggression. It hasn't been capable of it. If China had possessed a military as powerful as the US currently does, you really think they wouldn't have been braver or more aggressive in their foreign policy?

China has been plenty aggressive, and as a growing super power this will only increase alongside its influence. The more confident it gets (as we're seeing now) the more you'll see bold moves, and the setting up of naval bases etc is preparation for this. Of course it's more wary of making power moves than the United States, which is arguably the greatest military power in all of history and has all of NATO behind it.

 

[Zlatattack]

their neighbours might have a different opinion about that.

As a Pakistani (and therefore neighbour of China), i can say I that China has no interest in destabilising other countries.

 

[Sky1981]

Your view of the world is as black & white/oversimplified as all those who believe 'Western propaganda'.

China has plenty of its own black marks throughout history (including some brutal treatment of its own people, let alone foreigners) but in modern history simply hasn't been able to project power in the way that the US or other Western powers have, so obviously it has less acts of foreign aggression. It hasn't been capable of it. If China had possessed a military as powerful as the US currently does, you really think they wouldn't have been braver or more aggressive in their foreign policy?

China has been plenty aggressive, and as a growing super power this will only increase alongside its influence. The more confident it gets (as we're seeing now) the more you'll see bold moves, and the setting up of naval bases etc is preparation for this. Of course it's more wary of making power moves than the United States, which is arguably the greatest military power in all of history and has all of NATO behind it.

Half the world's mess is created by the US intervention in the past. Afghanistan, War or terror, Iran, Saudi Arabia indirectly backing terrorism, Korean War, Vietnam war, Iraq, and that's only the one that got exposed. China is building her own projection of power, but she never hides behind democracy and bullshits like the west used to.

We'll give you road, you give us your gas.

Plain simple.