Shall we just ignore Phil Jones exists from them stats then?
12
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 29
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Red cards
- 1
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
You just need to watch one game to see all the mistakes he makes at the moment
According to Squawka he's the 2nd best CB in the league behind Smalling, has a better defensive rating and has also made no defensive errors along with Smalling. So, if you intend on using Squawka to prove a point, why is it valid for one player but not the other?
Because you're deliberately ignoring all the other stats, just because 1 of them doesn't cover everything it should. The defensive errors dont count everything we fans would consider a defensive error, which I already explained earlier in the thread.
You could also go watch a match and see that Jones is making mistakes and Smalling makes the least of our CBs.
I'm not ignoring anything lmao, i think Squawka is a ridiculous thing to base a players performance on, but if you're going to, you can't divide opinion just to suit your argument.
I watched the match last night and Jones made one minor mistake all game, yet apparently he was a liability and cost a goal that had nothing to do with him, so it seems fans are equally delusional whether they're presented with statistics or not.
I've heard this mentioned a bit but I am not sure it is true, at least not anymore. People seem to be really critical towards Jones this season.
If somebody tells you one thing, do you have to believe everything they ever say?
Its one stat thats a bit useless because it doesn't cover enough to call it "individual errors". Get over it
It's one of several stats displayed. Jones is rated the 2nd best CB in the league behind Smalling on that article. His rating includes nearly 8 higher than Smalling defensively. Then on the United stats he's 3% less on pass accurate, about 1% less on aerial duels and then he's averaging an interception a game more than Smalling. The article (who's written by someone equally as blind) then suggests that Smalling has been by far and away our best CB and questions how we have such a great defensive record. Well, if we apparently have the best 2 CBs in the league, whys it such a mystery? Could it be that maybe Squawka stats are complete bollocks? Or maybe they're accurate and Smalling is fantastic. In which case, so is Jones.
Which one is it?
You must've missed the backlash from the City game.
Yeah, he should have been praised for that game
Yeah, he should have been praised for that game
No he shouldn't, but after that game people were quick to write him off. He came back into the side and controlled our back-four in a certain amount of games and turned some heads. It just goes to show how fickle us fans are.
I think this is a fairer comparison?
http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...mitted/cards_for_bad_tackles/total_duels_%#90
http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...mitted/cards_for_bad_tackles/total_duels_%#90
Came back in and controlled the back four? Have you seen our defence this season, there's nothing controlled about them.
Maybe not controlled but atleast he tried to orchestrate it and i felt when he was on the pitch the other defenders wasn't as nervous than without him.
He came back with strong performances against Arsenal, Hull City and Stoke. His response was brilliant. After the City game people didn't want him in the starting lineup again
He and Rojo are rated better than Smalling on whoscored.
Again, as you're too dense to realise its because theres no good "this guy cocks it up this much" stat
You just have to use common sense and factor that in with the stats given. Do you want someone who wins the ball a bit more, but then presents the opponent with a good chance every game? LVG seems to
Too dense lol, I'm not the one that's using the stats to support my argument, infact I've mentioned several times that they're complete bollocks, and they are. You get points for clearances ffs, what a ridiculous stat to mark a defender on.
As I've already stated in the thread, a lot of these Jones mistakes are non-existent. He didn't give Swansea any chances last game, for example, yet his thread is still littered with shit. There's also been several times this season where he's been left 2v1 due to other cocking up and he's dealt with it exceptionally well, but we just forget about that. We also forget about Smalling losing his man vs Burnley and then completely fluffing a clearance in his own 6 yard line which almost resulted in a goal. I don't like being negative towards him because I like Smalling, but the caf would be in uproar had Jones been so poor in such situations, considering he was apparently at fault for a goal that had nothing to do with him at the weekend.
No one said he is. What kind of analogy is that?
A clearance is clearing the ball from the penalty area. Why wouldn't a CB get positively marked for that?
Let me guess, you really thought they meant hoofing the ball up the pitch or out of touch? Says everything
Yes Smalling has made a couple of mistakes recently, but he's clearly less error prone in his 5 years at the club than any of our other CBs have been in their time. So obviously its more rational to consider more than a couple of recent games, else we'd be under the impression that someone like Rooney is an average player.
I always thought United fans rated Smalling higher overall. However non-United fans seem to prefer Jones over Smalling, if they had to pick one, but most think both are shite.
I still hold out hope for him and Jones because the two of them are excellent in 1 on 1 situations, Jones in particular has a great burst of pace even if he gambles and loses his man to recover and make a tackle. They both do however need to get better aerially first and start sniffing out danger before having to make a tackle. I'm genuinely surprised that they spent 2-3 seasons with Rio and none of his composure has rubbed off on either one.
Smalling is dominant in the air. Thats one of his strengths.
Should/can be better though I think. With his size and athleticism, he should be Vidic-esq at both ends.
Smalling wins a few especially off corners because he is just taller, when I think of aerial dominance I think of players like Vidic, Cahill & Koscielny who attack the ball before letting it bounce between midfield and defense. I think Rojo is much better at it than any of our other center backs.
Not particularly, a defender could have the composure to play the ball out of the area despite being under pressure, yet that gets absolutely no reward when it is clearly a more skilled action to take. Someone making a fantastic last gasp clearance and someone panicking under pressure are grouped as the same thing, which is ridiculous.
I don't necessarily think Smalling has been a less error prone centre half to be honest, I think that's a bit of a myth. However that's exactly my point, because of the hype Jones has received before it seems that fans are looking for mistakes in his game where as Smallings can be swept under the carpet.
If we going to play Rojo or Jones then Smalling needs to play next to them.
We looked weak during set pieces against West Ham and Swansea with Rojo and Jones. Gomis could have got two goals from their first two corners. Smalling is a lot better in the air than both of them.
We looked weak during set pieces against West Ham and Swansea with Rojo and Jones. Gomis could have got two goals from their first two corners. Smalling is a lot better in the air than both of them.
Rojo? He is worse than Evans in this aspect.
You guys are both underrating his aerial prowess. In the game against Burnley nothing went past Smalling in the air. He won 80% of aerial duels. Thats very Vidic like. Watch the game again if you can, the second half especially.
It's just as clear as day both he, and Jones haven't 'trained on' both need to go, one this season, one the season after.
Yeah its pretty obvious for anyone who has been watching us for a couple of years that Smalling makes a lot less mistakes at CB than Jones does
None of him, Jones or Evans are good enough. Smalling perhaps the best of a bad bunch. I'd imagine Jones is who will stay in the summer due to his age, and the other two will be gone.
Why do people keep saying this? If you're not good enough it doesn't matter how old you are. Jones has had 5 years of first team football
Jones is also above Smalling current in the pecking order (as has been shown by recent team selections)
That doesn't really mean anything. Smalling was ahead of Jones at one point. The only CB who seems to be assured of a starting role is Rojo because he has a left foot
I'd bet a lot of money that both he and Jones will be here next season. I think Evans will be off.
I think Evans will be off too tbh, but I also think we may see more leave than stay when it comes to defenders.
Evans and Rafael to leave, I think, with Blackett going on loan. Rafael leaving will be hard to take, when fit he's legitimately one of the most talented full backs in the world, but I'll understand the reasons behind it.
Something about Smalling and Jones. No matter how many times I watch them play shite, I still can't bring myself to want them out of the club.
Smalling will be off along with Evans. Jones will be given a year's stay of execution, but will then be shown the door in 2016.