Chris Smalling image 12

Chris Smalling England flag

2019-20 Performances


View full 2019-20 profile

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
46,432
Location
Hope, We Lose
2 yellow cards in 28 starts. Less than his number of goals (3) and assists (2)

So no, Smalling hasnt had the slightest problem with VAR
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,316
2 yellow cards in 28 starts. Less than his number of goals (3) and assists (2)

So no, Smalling hasnt had the slightest problem with VAR
It’s not entirely true. He has conceded at least four penalties, maybe more. Three penalties for handball after VAR check. That’s actually a very high amount.

And yellow cards don’t have so much to do with VAR.
 
Last edited:

marktan

Full Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
2,990
It’s not entirely true. He has conceded at least four penalties, maybe more. Three penalties for handball after VAR check. That’s actually a very high amount.

And yellow cards don’t have so much to do with VAR.
One of them I remember, it hit his face and was given as a penalty. Where was VAR then?
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
38,241
Location
Canada
Yeah if there's no obvious transfer for us this summer, then I'm 100% for keeping him and getting rid of rojo and Jones. Smalling should be starter next to Maguire IMO, would make a much better partner to Magure than Lindelof is. Aggressive, quick, strong, tall, dominant aerially, right sided center back.

I get Ole likes Lindelof for his build up play, but I don't think its at a level where it out weighs the overall defensive quality and aerial dominance we would have with both Maguire and Smalling. Lindelof tends to just pass it off to Maguire anyway.
 

Number32

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
461
The problem is not only his technical ability to play attacking football here, but also low mentality and concentration. I agree he's a better defender than our CB, but even during his great run in Serie A he still plays like a youngster. No leadership, and still has no communication with his teamatates. Lucky for him Roma is always playing with 5 at the back and some veteran players.

Lack of ruthless strikers in Italy overshadows his common weakness, and He's still the same person there. We should let him go and move on. We only conceeded 36 goals in the league and some of them were De Gea's howler. We also conceeded only 3 penalties, while Smalling alone has 4. Our CB partnership is a masive improvement from last season.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
46,432
Location
Hope, We Lose
It’s not entirely true. He has conceded at least four penalties, maybe more. Three penalties for handball after VAR check. That’s actually a very high amount.

And yellow cards don’t have so much to do with VAR.
I distinctly remember being told it would be the end of his career. Pulling people in the box giving away a penalty is very likely a yellow card
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
31,624
Location
Egypt
If he returns, he'll end up on the bench, because he left for the same reason. Lindelof and Maguire are ahead of him and to be honest they're just both better, marginally or not they're just better. Smalling won't be returning to sit on the bench.

I'm sure he'll request being sold and we'll give him that.
 

KennyBurner

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
2,471
Location
ATL
Smalling could never work in our team. Him and AWB in the same team would be a disaster. No composure when trying to build out from the back and the odd misplaced pass due to terrible technique on the ball.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
46,432
Location
Hope, We Lose
Smalling could never work in our team. Him and AWB in the same team would be a disaster. No composure when trying to build out from the back and the odd misplaced pass due to terrible technique on the ball.
So you're suggesting that our players dont already make the odd misplaced pass?
 

Sad Chris

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,610
Yeah if there's no obvious transfer for us this summer, then I'm 100% for keeping him and getting rid of rojo and Jones. Smalling should be starter next to Maguire IMO, would make a much better partner to Magure than Lindelof is. Aggressive, quick, strong, tall, dominant aerially, right sided center back.
He would definitely help adding goals for us. I‘ve noticed recently how often Fernandes successfully targets Maguire from corners. Having a second option would increase our chances of scoring.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
46,432
Location
Hope, We Lose
Roma's last 3 matches were wins after he returned to the team. They were doing fairly well without him too after switching to 3 at the back
 

UDontMessWith24

Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
1,772
Yeah if there's no obvious transfer for us this summer, then I'm 100% for keeping him and getting rid of rojo and Jones. Smalling should be starter next to Maguire IMO, would make a much better partner to Magure than Lindelof is. Aggressive, quick, strong, tall, dominant aerially, right sided center back.

I get Ole likes Lindelof for his build up play, but I don't think its at a level where it out weighs the overall defensive quality and aerial dominance we would have with both Maguire and Smalling. Lindelof tends to just pass it off to Maguire anyway.
Imagining the two of them trying to pass through a high press is giving me anxiety.
 

roonster09

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
24,413
It’s not entirely true. He has conceded at least four penalties, maybe more. Three penalties for handball after VAR check. That’s actually a very high amount.

And yellow cards don’t have so much to do with VAR.
People came up with this ridiculous "VAR is the end of him" as he holds opponent shirt, I don't remember him conceding penalty for that. Every CB does that but for some weird reason ManUtd fans think it's only Smalling who does that.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
41,631
Location
CA
I distinctly remember being told it would be the end of his career. Pulling people in the box giving away a penalty is very likely a yellow card
He conceded more penalties than the entire United did. Of course, he wasn’t going to concede 200 penalties, but 4 penalties for a single player is really a lot.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
7,145
Location
Jamaica
He conceded more penalties than the entire United did. Of course, he wasn’t going to concede 200 penalties, but 4 penalties for a single player is really a lot.
None of them for what people were saying was a weakness though.
 

edcunited1878

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
4,459
Location
San Diego, CA
Scored today, defended well (again) as part of a 3 CB line. Looks bigger and leaner, still moving really well and made some forward passes as well.

He's a good CB and is starting for a big club who competes in a European tournament. He probably wouldn't want to come back to United if he isn't at least given a chance at a starting spot since he was firmly 4th choice at best going into the past season behind Maguire, Lindelof, and Tuanzebe, but ahead of Bailly. His availability automatically placed him above Tuanzebe and Bailly. But he's wanted and an important starting player for Roma, so can't see why he would want to return to United. He's ran his race with United and it's been a terrific ride for him. Won the league twice, both domestic trophies, and a European trophy. Capped for England over 30 times.
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,316
I distinctly remember being told it would be the end of his career. Pulling people in the box giving away a penalty is very likely a yellow card
People came up with this ridiculous "VAR is the end of him" as he holds opponent shirt, I don't remember him conceding penalty for that. Every CB does that but for some weird reason ManUtd fans think it's only Smalling who does that.
I think he, and many other CBs, have cleaned up their game and adjusted for VAR. They lose a weapon or two, and how important that is depends on the CB. I personally can’t say if he is less effective now when he has to be less physical in the box, especially not since he moved to another league.

Now he should try to clean up the handball part as well.
 

roonster09

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
24,413
I think he, and many other CBs, have cleaned up their game and adjusted for VAR. They lose a weapon or two, and how important that is depends on the CB. I personally can’t say if he is less effective now when he has to be less physical in the box, especially not since he moved to another league.

Now he should try to clean up the handball part as well.
Not really, its just that people overplay it and make it sound as if football is contactless sport. Every set piece will end up as foul (to both teams) if they give foul for those.
 

eire-red

Full Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
330
Looks like Roma are keen to hold onto him, so I'd 100% sell. If we get around the 15-20m mark for him that would be great business.

He's a good defender but just so bad with the ball its actually quite shocking. In reality, we haven't missed him this season. Sell him, Rojo and Jones and be done with it.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,888
Smalling is a good defender if you are playing Jose style football. I am not sure he is the answer with the style we are going for.

Also, a few have mentioned how well he has done in Itay, well yeh it it is a league that suits Smalling down to the ground.

Roma have conceded 50 goals this season in the league which is more than any of the top 7 clubs in Italy and they are 5th. I am not too sure Smalling is the answer to our CB issues. He will be 3/4th choice.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
25,923
We should bring him back. There's games i'd rather have him in the team over Lindelof and vice versa.

He's still a good CB and I honestly think he got way too much criticism, just like Maguire is getting now too. Roma seem to want to keep him and their fans love him.
 

roonster09

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
24,413
We should bring him back. There's games i'd rather have him in the team over Lindelof and vice versa.

He's still a good CB and I honestly think he got way too much criticism, just like Maguire is getting now too. Roma seem to want to keep him and their fans love him.
Yes, would love to see him play alongside Maguire. IMO that would be better than Lindelof + Maguire pair. We will be goal threat from set pieces and also we will clear everything, won't be bullied physically by any team.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
12,420
The problem is not only his technical ability to play attacking football here, but also low mentality and concentration. I agree he's a better defender than our CB, but even during his great run in Serie A he still plays like a youngster. No leadership, and still has no communication with his teamatates. Lucky for him Roma is always playing with 5 at the back and some veteran players.

Lack of ruthless strikers in Italy overshadows his common weakness, and He's still the same person there. We should let him go and move on. We only conceeded 36 goals in the league and some of them were De Gea's howler. We also conceeded only 3 penalties, while Smalling alone has 4. Our CB partnership is a masive improvement from last season.
This is something that gets overlooked as everybody focuses on his ball playing ability. He is an excellent 1v1 defender, arguably the best we have, but his game reading and concentration is poor vs any team with good movement. He's awful at reading diagonal runs and passing marked players along to his teammates during an attack.

Roma have conceded 40 goals in his 29 games. We have conceded 36 all season, in a significantly stronger league. He's had a good season there no doubt but let's not kid ourselves that he's in some way better than Maguire and Lindelof.
 

Havak

Pokemon master
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
6,680
Location
Salford, Manchester
We should bring him back. There's games i'd rather have him in the team over Lindelof and vice versa.

He's still a good CB and I honestly think he got way too much criticism, just like Maguire is getting now too. Roma seem to want to keep him and their fans love him.
Again, the decision basically isn't really ours in a way.

Of course the club can do what they want with a player under contract, but he wants to be starting every week at his age. Ole can't guarantee him that so he wants to leave. I think everyone would be in agreement that he is a better option for our squad than Jones, Rojo, and probably even Bailly & Tuanzebe given their injury record and inexperience respectively, but using him as a squad option is close to out of the picture.

Obviously, I'd hope that if a deal can't be reached with Roma that we would just say to Chris "unfortunately, you're just going to have to deal with it" and he'd be professional about it. I think he probably would be if push came to shove and would give his best for us, but it is clear that his wish is to leave if he isn't starting every game next to Maguire (unless he has some diabolical mistakes and has to be dropped etc). I think there is a bit of an agenda against Smalling though that has built up over time. He gets lumped together with Jones for everything, silly mistakes, injuries (absolutely wrong), awkwardness, ability on the ball and the list goes on. However, I bet if he'd come in and done exactly the same as Maguire for this season for example, he would be getting slaughtered by our fans on here.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
25,923
@Havak As you say it's down to Smalling's preference. He's too good to be benched and too old to be patient, so leaving is probably for the best if we can get a good fee.

I'm not sure whether Ole didn't fancy him or it was Smalling who said he wanted out, will be interesting to see what happens in pre season if he hasn't left by then.
 

BrilliantOrange

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
40
Supports
Ajax Amsterdam
Get some money for him...

Sell Jones, Bailly, Smalling... #Deadwood

4 CB's next year should be Magguire, <insert new class cb>, Lindelof, Tuanzabe

If you would get Smalling back it would be in stead a potential new class CB, which means our Defense still wouldn't be solid enough to win titles (Smalling had a decent season in Italy, but he is just not thát good), or he would take time from Axel, who should at least get chances and perspective for minutes...
 

devips

Full Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
825
Smalling is a better defender by a mile than either Maquire, Lindelof or Tuanzebe. This is beyond debate.
 

Number32

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
461
This is something that gets overlooked as everybody focuses on his ball playing ability. He is an excellent 1v1 defender, arguably the best we have, but his game reading and concentration is poor vs any team with good movement. He's awful at reading diagonal runs and passing marked players along to his teammates during an attack.

Roma have conceded 40 goals in his 29 games. We have conceded 36 all season, in a significantly stronger league. He's had a good season there no doubt but let's not kid ourselves that he's in some way better than Maguire and Lindelof.
None of Maguire or Lindelof had conceded Errors leading to goal record, let alone penalties. The argument of Smalling will give us more goals from set pieces by Bruno is also ludicrous. We can score anywhere from the pitch with our front 3, we're not Stoke or Burnley.

Same situation when we sold Silvestre in 2008. If he stayed he would scored assists and goals, but who needed that when you have Ronaldo, Tevez, and Rooney. The 2008 squad is magnificent though, They were on a different level.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
18,478
Location
#SmallingPlusOne
‘He had a great game, but I just can’t help feeling there’s a mistake in him’. That was the running assessment in almost every performance thread he had with us for years. Utter nonsense. Of course, when he inevitably makes one mistake at some point, it is like ‘there it is!’. He made far less than Maguire has this season.
 

roonster09

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
24,413
None of Maguire or Lindelof had conceded Errors leading to goal record, let alone penalties. The argument of Smalling will give us more goals from set pieces by Bruno is also ludicrous. We can score anywhere from the pitch with our front 3, we're not Stoke or Burnley.

Same situation when we sold Silvestre in 2008. If he stayed he would scored assists and goals, but who needed that when you have Ronaldo, Tevez, and Rooney. The 2008 squad is magnificent though, They were on a different level.
If you think none of Maguire or Lindelof made errors that lead to goals then you should stop reading stats and watch the game.

Error leading to goal is not the stat the records all defensive mistakes, it records very specific defensive mistake.
 

Sylar

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
24,919
‘He had a great game, but I just can’t help feeling there’s a mistake in him’. That was the running assessment in almost every performance thread he had with us for years. Utter nonsense. Of course, when he inevitably makes one mistake at some point, it is like ‘there it is!’. He made far less than Maguire has this season.
Id like to see the actual numbers on this. I think comparing clean sheets / and number of goals conceded like has been done on the previous page is not a great stat to look at though and not a true comparison with players.

I mean this season weve conceded a few due to DDG mistakes not defensive mistakes. Whereas a few seasons ago under Jose, we had DDG playing out of his skin.

Smalling shouldnt be starting for United in 2020. But I reckon he would have been great to bring on vs Southampton late in the game, rather him than Jones and Rojo...(but if he doesnt want that role I dont blame him either).

Things we should be looking at is:
-Defensive errors, shots conceded, and stuff like number of times dispossesed on the ball and ball given away passing forward. If Smalling is completely better than Lindelof, then I can see the argument for him being here until we get somebody better (Im not counting Maguire as we just paid so much for him, and hes not being replaced)
 

Number32

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
461
‘He had a great game, but I just can’t help feeling there’s a mistake in him’. That was the running assessment in almost every performance thread he had with us for years. Utter nonsense. Of course, when he inevitably makes one mistake at some point, it is like ‘there it is!’. He made far less than Maguire has this season.
Yeah, This season He conceded 4, Maguire has 0 errors to leading goal mistake.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
96,409
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Both Maguire and Lindelof are better defenders, better footballers and more reliable than Smalling. I don’t think there is a debate here.
I think there is certainly a debate to be had for lindelof v smalling especially if you are talking about defensive qualities
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
96,409
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Just curious if anyone can answer this.

1. Has there been any cases of penalty given for shirt pulling by VAR? If yes, how many in EPL? Shirt pulling/grabbing at set-piece is still common in PL games despite the VAR.

2. Serie A have been using VAR though many of its implementations is arguably still not at good level. How many penalties did Smalling given for shirt pulling there?
The whole VAR thing is a lazy excuse to sell a narrative and it’s clearly bollox
 

Squeaky Bumtime

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
577
In the 2nd half of the season, especially since the brake we've seen our players trying to constantly play it out of the back, no panicking with the ball in our half and trying to kick it out asap. Maguire and Lindelof have been decent if not solid in that regard. Mike would certainly struggle with that and thus our overall play and building of the attack would suffer.
Defensively he's on par with Lindelof and a bit behind Maguire but we made our bed with Smalling and shouldnt bring him back but search for a better CB than what we got if we'll even go for a CB this summer.