Chris Smalling image 12

Chris Smalling England flag

2019-20 Performances


View full 2019-20 profile

Status
Not open for further replies.

gajender

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
977
Agree. Be surprised if a mid-lower table side couldnt benefit from taking Smalling.
But the thing is would Smalling after spending his entire career with us would agree for such move.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
46,871
Location
Hope, We Lose
So I just mentioned it, but I really should go a little deeper into why Roma who played a 3 at the back had no problem whatsoever with Smalling keeping his passing simple and yet the team won 5 matches out of 7, drawing 1 and losing 1.

The first thing is... Shock, horror, you dont need your CB being a creative hub. Roma had no problem whatsoever creating from their midfield and attacking players. Kolarov did come forward from LCB and he has some quality on the ball so that helped. But for the most part their midfield and attack worked together, had most of the ball when playing at home, including 70% against Fiorentina for example and it was absolutely fine.

I dont think Diawara, Veretout, Miki, Pelegrini and Dzeko are better than our midfield and attack. Maybe they were organized better than our midfield and attack last season however.
 

Icemav

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
1,413
Yeah this isnt true at all either.

He had no problems whatsoever fitting back into Roma's 3 man defense in the middle, he kept it simple passing the ball to Kolarov to his left and Mancini to his right. Roma had most of the ball and won 5 of the 7 matches he played since returning to the team, with 1 draw and 1 loss.

Edit - Which by the way is the 3rd best run of results in Serie A. In that same run till the end of the season only Milan and Inter won more points with 5 wins and 2 draws.
He has a low error rate and has worked very hard to cover his limitations. But he is undoubtedly very bad on the ball. Playing 5 yard passes and putting a premium on not messing up does not make you competent especially in the context of a possession based team. He is very very limited. Bizaarely limited for a professional footballer. But that does not mean I don't rate him as a player especially his defensive play and I would welcome him back to the club to give us more depth.
 

Icemav

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
1,413
But the thing is would Smalling after spending his entire career with us would agree for such move.
I don't mind keeping him, nor selling for an ok fee considering his worth. Roma don't want to pay. Smalling has 2 options at the moment, come back into the squad or go back on loan. Right now there is no top club in for him.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
46,871
Location
Hope, We Lose
He has a low error rate and has worked very hard to cover his limitations. But he is undoubtedly very bad on the ball. Playing 5 yard passes and putting a premium on not messing up does not make you competent especially in the context of a possession based team. He is very very limited. Bizaarely limited for a professional footballer. But that does not mean I don't rate him as a player especially his defensive play and I would welcome him back to the club to give us more depth.
Again I'm not denying that he kept it simple. He made high percentage passes to Kolarov and Mancini 15 yards wider than him and 6 yards in front.

Roma scored 26 goals in the 12 games Roma played since the corona restart.

That was starting with a back 4 and then turned into a back 3 with wingbacks/wide midfielders. Only 3 of those matches Roma failed to score 2 or more goals.

So having a CB keeping it simple clearly doesn't determine whether your team can play attacking football, keep the ball and score goals. You might not like it, it might personally annoy you, but it doesn't translate to real life results. Sorry
 

RedPed

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
9,767
Talk about underrating a player...
I was actually being unkind to Bournemouth.

.


Clear he never rated Fred but situations change your thinking. Still may not rate him but currently we have very little cover. Not walk back in but I recon he'd have played a lot of games last season.
I don't think anything has changed to make Solskjaer rate Smalling any higher than before. Young and Lukaku have had just as big an impact in Italy as Smalling but there would be no clamour to have them back. Time for Smalling to move on. I wouldn't pay £20m for him but hopefully we find a buyer.

Perhaps he could go back to Fulham if they go up. That would be perfect for all parties concerned.
 

Icemav

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
1,413
Again I'm not denying that he kept it simple. He made high percentage passes to Kolarov and Mancini 15 yards wider than him and 6 yards in front.

Roma scored 26 goals in the 12 games Roma played since the corona restart.

That was starting with a back 4 and then turned into a back 3 with wingbacks/wide midfielders. Only 3 of those matches Roma failed to score 2 or more goals.

So having a CB keeping it simple clearly doesn't determine whether your team can play attacking football, keep the ball and score goals. You might not like it, it might personally annoy you, but it doesn't translate to real life results. Sorry
It doesn't annoy me nor do I mind one way or another. Just happens to be a fact that individually he is poor on the ball. Whether or not it is material to the style of play or results of a team is a matter for debate far beyond this. Pep ditched Hart primarily for this reason. Ole ditched Smalling. Was it unnecessary? Perhaps, perhaps not. This stuff is above my pay grade. But as I have said before Smalling is very limited on the ball and this is a fact and some managers don't want him in the team because of it. Can Smalling play in a possession based side? Yes because he did so with LVG. But I suppose there is more to it than that.
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,452
Again I'm not denying that he kept it simple. He made high percentage passes to Kolarov and Mancini 15 yards wider than him and 6 yards in front.

Roma scored 26 goals in the 12 games Roma played since the corona restart.

That was starting with a back 4 and then turned into a back 3 with wingbacks/wide midfielders. Only 3 of those matches Roma failed to score 2 or more goals.

So having a CB keeping it simple clearly doesn't determine whether your team can play attacking football, keep the ball and score goals. You might not like it, it might personally annoy you, but it doesn't translate to real life results. Sorry
It is not the only factor that decides if you can score goals, but it helps. I believe it is much more important in the PL than in Serie A because there is so intense press in PL.

In general Roma has not had problem to score goals this season. It is more the high amount of conceded goals that has been the problem.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
46,871
Location
Hope, We Lose
It doesn't annoy me nor do I mind one way or another. Just happens to be a fact that individually he is poor on the ball. Whether or not it is material to the style of play or results of a team is a matter for debate far beyond this. Pep ditched Hart primarily for this reason. Ole ditched Smalling. Was it unnecessary? Perhaps, perhaps not. This stuff is above my pay grade. But as I have said before Smalling is very limited on the ball and this is a fact and some managers don't want him in the team because of it. Can Smalling play in a possession based side? Yes because he did so with LVG. But I suppose there is more to it than that.
Pep had a blank cheque and do we really think he has achieved as much as he could have with all the money spent? Especially on defenders and the keeper. I would say certainly not. In fact if you had a poll on Pep's biggest blunders with City transfers, Defends/Keeper would be right up there.

Yes Smalling is simple with the ball. Its fine, it could be improved on when we're ready to win the league like City were and everything else is rock solid. We arent at that stage yet, still several things to improve on before hyper optimisation beyond having a team that wins enough points, scores enough goals and doesnt conceed too many.
 

georgipep

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
333
Location
Not far enough
Pep had a blank cheque and do we really think he has achieved as much as he could have with all the money spent? Especially on defenders and the keeper. I would say certainly not. In fact if you had a poll on Pep's biggest blunders with City transfers, Defends/Keeper would be right up there.

Yes Smalling is simple with the ball. Its fine, it could be improved on when we're ready to win the league like City were and everything else is rock solid. We arent at that stage yet, still several things to improve on before hyper optimisation beyond having a team that wins enough points, scores enough goals and doesnt conceed too many.
Questioning Pep's decision to ditch Hart is unwise, considering Burnley just released him and no PL team wants him. What does that tell you? And he's not very old too.
 

Icemav

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
1,413
Pep had a blank cheque and do we really think he has achieved as much as he could have with all the money spent? Especially on defenders and the keeper. I would say certainly not. In fact if you had a poll on Pep's biggest blunders with City transfers, Defends/Keeper would be right up there.

Yes Smalling is simple with the ball. Its fine, it could be improved on when we're ready to win the league like City were and everything else is rock solid. We arent at that stage yet, still several things to improve on before hyper optimisation beyond having a team that wins enough points, scores enough goals and doesnt conceed too many.
Ah well now we are talking. Yes I agree its about optimization and there is a element of timing here. For that reason I would welcome Smalling back in the interim with our lack of CB cover, and personally I have been a fan in the past and have some trust in him.

Ole may have put the cart before the horse but the guy is ambitious. I have no issue with that and ultimately that is the type of boldness we need. You think a player like Smalling would not prevent a team from winning the league. Ole felt differently and is looking to improve many areas and change the culture of the team hence jettisoning Sanches, Lukaku, Young and Smalling. I personally would have kept Smalling but I don't criticise Ole at all for taking these decisions. All 4 of these players have performed well in Serie A. Doesn't change the merit of the decision in the same way that Depay now playing well for Lyon doesn't change that it was most likely the right decision.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
46,871
Location
Hope, We Lose
Questioning Pep's decision to ditch Hart is unwise, considering Burnley just released him and no PL team wants him. What does that tell you? And he's not very old too.
That his form suffered after leaving City. While he was there he was well thought of and pushed as the first choice keeper, with Kasper sold on even though he had his run in the team first. He was a good keeper once
 

ghagua

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
5,635
So I just mentioned it, but I really should go a little deeper into why Roma who played a 3 at the back had no problem whatsoever with Smalling keeping his passing simple and yet the team won 5 matches out of 7, drawing 1 and losing 1.

The first thing is... Shock, horror, you dont need your CB being a creative hub. Roma had no problem whatsoever creating from their midfield and attacking players. Kolarov did come forward from LCB and he has some quality on the ball so that helped. But for the most part their midfield and attack worked together, had most of the ball when playing at home, including 70% against Fiorentina for example and it was absolutely fine.

I dont think Diawara, Veretout, Miki, Pelegrini and Dzeko are better than our midfield and attack. Maybe they were organized better than our midfield and attack last season however.
Exactly. I would like to see them score a few goals at corners. I would like to see the fullbacks attack when they have a chance to do so. I would want the midfielder at the base of the midfield to be the start of building an attack, I'm fine with center backs doing their job which is to defend.
 

elmo

Can never have too many Eevees
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
7,996
Location
AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla
He's not that bad at passing that he's going to mess up passing to Matic / De Gea / Macguire who'll be 10 feet away from him max.

That's 95% of all the passing Lindelof does anyway.
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
12,970
Seems Roma signed Vertonghen on a free rather than pay for Smalling.

Should try to use Smalling as make weight in a Grealish deal.
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
3,449
Seems Roma signed Vertonghen on a free rather than pay for Smalling.

Should try to use Smalling as make weight in a Grealish deal.
It's not that simple, would Smalling agree to join relegation struggers?
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
12,970
It's not that simple, would Smalling agree to join relegation struggers?
He’s not wanted here. Why not? He’ll be 31 in November, if Villa gave him a 3 year deal he’d surely consider it.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
25,132
He’s not wanted here. Why not? He’ll be 31 in November, if Villa gave him a 3 year deal he’d surely consider it.
Doubt it. There will be plenty of mid table clubs who will be interested to sign him, doubt he would sign for villa.
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
3,449
He’s not wanted here. Why not? He’ll be 31 in November, if Villa gave him a 3 year deal he’d surely consider it.
No he wouldn't, there will be midtable teams after him if we made him available and who knows Arsenal could still be interested in him.
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
12,970
No he wouldn't, there will be midtable teams after him if we made him available and who knows Arsenal could still be interested in him.
Arteta won’t go near him. They are trying to build a ball playing defence too.
 

Nou_Camp99

Full Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
4,284
Hes still one of our best centre backs. Don't get the hate.

I trust Smalling more than Jones, Rojo, Tuanzebe n even Bailly who seems to be massively overrated on here. I don't actually think he's any worse than Lindelof either.
 

RedPed

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
9,767
Hes still one of our best centre backs. Don't get the hate.

I trust Smalling more than Jones, Rojo, Tuanzebe n even Bailly who seems to be massively overrated on here. I don't actually think he's any worse than Lindelof either.
If I had a £1 for every time that line has come up in any Smalling thread...
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
3,449

Weird. Returning to us then ?
We are going to have lot of games compressed into a short period of time, rather we had him. We got away with Maguire playing almost every game this season, we won't get away with that next season.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
5,130
Seems Roma signed Vertonghen on a free rather than pay for Smalling.

Should try to use Smalling as make weight in a Grealish deal.
I think Roma might still try to sign him this summer.

We are playing the hard ball because Roma is in Europa League with us. After Europa League end, we might not play the hard ball and accept their initial offer.
 

Kostov

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
5,934
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
He's not that bad at passing that he's going to mess up passing to Matic / De Gea / Macguire who'll be 10 feet away from him max.

That's 95% of all the passing Lindelof does anyway.
That's mainly true :lol:, but Lindelof is much more comfortable on the ball me thinks so not all straightforward. If he is willing to stay and fight for a place, I'd rather we keep him that give him for peanuts.
 

diawl_coch

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 18, 2014
Messages
67
Location
North Wales
Having him back will strengthen our squad, and I don't see that many experienced alternatives out there. We'll be in the intensive Champions League and Premier League race next season, and he is a solid player.

As opposed to Jones or Rojo who will either make stupid mistakes or have a good game and then be injured for 3 months!

No brainer.
 

Beachryan

More helpful with spreadsheets than Phurry
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
8,755
Smalling's one of those that served us long enough that I feel we could help him out. Not my favourite player by any stretch and I'm kind of glad to see him go, but he's clearly happy there.

Given the idiocy and cost to us of Jones' contract, Sanchez, Di Maria etc, like 5m Euros or whatever feels like we could have done right by him imo.

Aren't Roma in huge financial trouble?
 

Oldyella

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
3,151
Smalling's one of those that served us long enough that I feel we could help him out. Not my favourite player by any stretch and I'm kind of glad to see him go, but he's clearly happy there.

Given the idiocy and cost to us of Jones' contract, Sanchez, Di Maria etc, like 5m Euros or whatever feels like we could have done right by him imo.

Aren't Roma in huge financial trouble?
Yeah, some players should be helped with the clubs blessing, Smalling feels like one of them. I can see why Roma may have tried to haggle though, world is a very different place to when that deal was agreed.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
23,675
Smalling's one of those that served us long enough that I feel we could help him out. Not my favourite player by any stretch and I'm kind of glad to see him go, but he's clearly happy there.

Given the idiocy and cost to us of Jones' contract, Sanchez, Di Maria etc, like 5m Euros or whatever feels like we could have done right by him imo.

Aren't Roma in huge financial trouble?
Business is business. Smalling's stock is quite high at the moment, they'll be other clubs in Europe who will take him based on his Roma form
 

RussellWilson

Full Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
928
Made the serie A team of year.


Rather spending money on another squad level centre back would rather we used Smalling until we got the right man.

He's very good at sweeping up and playing last man, would be a good partner for Maguire
 

Eugenius

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
3,287
Location
Behind You
Made the serie A team of year.


Rather spending money on another squad level centre back would rather we used Smalling until we got the right man.

He's very good at sweeping up and playing last man, would be a good partner for Maguire
Yet there are posters in here saying he should play for a championship team :lol:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.