He’d probably improve City’s defence but weaken their team.
Your Spurs comment is daft though. They’ve got three of the top 10 CB’s in the league. With their starting 2 both in the top 5.
Chris Smalling - does he start at any other top 6 team?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
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Your Spurs comment is daft though. They’ve got three of the top 10 CB’s in the league. With their starting 2 both in the top 5.
Arsenal, that is all
Interesting. How many last ditch tackles does he make then?
He would not. City would concede more goals with Smalling in the main 11.
We need to dispense of the notion that City can get away with playing useless defenders in their back line because they keep so much possession.
As a Croat and United fan i must say; No, he is not. Not saying that he is worse but he is not better.
1 of them makes a lot of headers. Smalling makes more than Sanchez. And they play 3 at the back more than a third of the time. Defense hasnt been their strong point this season
He would start for Arsenal and that's it. Build up play from the back is super important for the rest of the sides in the top 6 and Smalling as we well know is shocking on the ball. I'm not fully convinced he's a better defender then Gomez, Lovren, Christiansen, Stones etc either.
With build up play being more important to us under Ole, as well as VAR coming in next season (which realistically speaking will impact Smalling more than any other defender in the league), I'm surprised we renewed his contract. He's not good enough to be a starter if we want to challenge for the league and in Europe.
With build up play being more important to us under Ole, as well as VAR coming in next season (which realistically speaking will impact Smalling more than any other defender in the league), I'm surprised we renewed his contract. He's not good enough to be a starter if we want to challenge for the league and in Europe.
You haven’t disagreed with me.
Final 3 minutes, 1-0 up in a CL final against Barcelona... I’d take Smalling over Stones every day of the week.
Full calendar year and it’s not even a conversation.
Yeah that's fair.
So this isn't a Smalling bashing thread?
Well, maybe a bit? Honestly wasn't intended as such. Genuinely interested in people's views on the matter. I'd love to be persuaded he would waltz into any top 6 side. So far, for me at least, it's just Arsenal.
Pretty sure it’s a “All defenders are pretty shit now”
While discounting the fact that most successful teams now play 11 great footballers and don’t carry average ones.
Ronny Johnsen would be a truly world class centre half in this day and age. He barely got in our side during his career.
Football changes.
Even though most people told you more than Arsenal?
Lovren is a shocking defender. I wouldn't take him on a free. I'm no Smalling fan but I can't believe this is even a debate.
City play useless defender in Stones
I'm getting closer to thinking he might cut it elsewhere.
The league is hardly awash with good centrebacks right now.
There's VVD, who's top class. Then there's the likes of Alderweireld, Maguire, Koscielny, Vertonghen, Gomez, Laporte and Sokratis.
Smalling and Lindelof are probably both close to best of the rest.
There's VVD, who's top class. Then there's the likes of Alderweireld, Maguire, Koscielny, Vertonghen, Gomez, Laporte and Sokratis.
Smalling and Lindelof are probably both close to best of the rest.
Is he better than Matip? Matip has been great for Liverpool recently
Starts for Arsenal, backup for Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs, outside of the 25 men team of City.
I'm going to be a bit bold and say some failed footballers are jealous of Smalling making it at a big club, coming from a non league club. I always see people bring that up, as to mock him for being a "terrible footballer" they truly believe they are better footballers despite him playing for Man Utd, but they don't even know he spent time at the academy at Millwall before. I'm not saying this pertains to everyone who doesn't rate Smalling, but I know how bitter failed footballers with big ego's can be, and sometimes the hate is too blatant.
Smalling do not give the ball away due to poor technique. He sometimes passes between the lines. He sometimes run forward with the ball. He is very good at winning the ball high up the pitch to keep our attacking momentum up, and good at winning the ball to start of a counter attack. He also scores a lot of goals for a CB. Him not contributing enough offensively for a top team is pure made up non sense. Him being a solid defender most people agree on, but can we put the notion that he doesn't offer anything else at all to rest? It is totally fabricated. Could he offer more? Sure. Should we stop chasing better players? No.
Also. VVD hoof the ball. Ramos hoof the ball. David Luiz hoofs the ball. All defenders do this when under pressure. Without pressure, everyone can play the ball, even Smalling. Different levels of course, but lets not say he can't do it at all because it is just silly.
Smalling has been one of the most consistent CB's in the league. He was probably the best one year, then it was Alderweireld, then it was David Luiz I think, and Vertonghen and this year Van Djik has been the best. Lindelof, Stones, Bailly, Sanchez are all players that can establish themselves over the next years, I would say it is very close between the CB's in top 6 but some of them need to prove their level is more than form. Sanchez started very well this season then he fell of a bit. People said he was a ball-playing CB, now everyone claim he is not, things change and narratives change but some stick by them. You sort of has to judge relative to the circumstances. In similar squad situation to what we have found ourself in, Smalling would have played for every club. Smalling has not even had a partner since Blind, but now he has Lindelof and suddenly we look really good defensively, not only on one side.
Smalling do not give the ball away due to poor technique. He sometimes passes between the lines. He sometimes run forward with the ball. He is very good at winning the ball high up the pitch to keep our attacking momentum up, and good at winning the ball to start of a counter attack. He also scores a lot of goals for a CB. Him not contributing enough offensively for a top team is pure made up non sense. Him being a solid defender most people agree on, but can we put the notion that he doesn't offer anything else at all to rest? It is totally fabricated. Could he offer more? Sure. Should we stop chasing better players? No.
Also. VVD hoof the ball. Ramos hoof the ball. David Luiz hoofs the ball. All defenders do this when under pressure. Without pressure, everyone can play the ball, even Smalling. Different levels of course, but lets not say he can't do it at all because it is just silly.
Smalling has been one of the most consistent CB's in the league. He was probably the best one year, then it was Alderweireld, then it was David Luiz I think, and Vertonghen and this year Van Djik has been the best. Lindelof, Stones, Bailly, Sanchez are all players that can establish themselves over the next years, I would say it is very close between the CB's in top 6 but some of them need to prove their level is more than form. Sanchez started very well this season then he fell of a bit. People said he was a ball-playing CB, now everyone claim he is not, things change and narratives change but some stick by them. You sort of has to judge relative to the circumstances. In similar squad situation to what we have found ourself in, Smalling would have played for every club. Smalling has not even had a partner since Blind, but now he has Lindelof and suddenly we look really good defensively, not only on one side.
Although I think we should get rid he’s still a very good defender.
Once the PL fully adopts VAR definitely not. He may not play for any in the top 10 after that. For now though Arsenal for sure.
Do you also think that if VVD had DDG behind him instead of Becker he could no longer be a top CB because he couldn't start any attacks with his passing out from the back anymore? Because in a sense that is one element that might change something for a defender, but at the same time, not necessarily everything. Seems to me there is sort of a similar logic there, I don't agree and find it a bit hyperbolic even.
Van Dijk did not join his first professional club until he was in his late teens and that is not really held against him.
Right. Maybe it is different culture? I can't remember fully but I'm pretty sure it took a while for him to be accepted by some? I thought he was a real talent when he played for Celtic but many had those reservations and I think the national team took a while to warm to him as well. But I'm no expert on this either way. I just think it might be something in that.
With everybody fit, don't think he would for city, Liverpool or spurs
Chelsea I'm guessing it depends on the manager and style required (under Sarri I'm not sure )
Arsenal is a yes
Chelsea I'm guessing it depends on the manager and style required (under Sarri I'm not sure )
Arsenal is a yes
Trust me, that Utd shirt does strange things to footballers...either they look better or worst for it. Smalling I think would look better not wearing it and there are some I've seen mentioned on here that I think would look very ordinary in it. Not many footballers can have their game forensically examined like when you play here...
Can't speak to failed footballers being jealous about Smalling, but your last paragraph is mostly spot on.
Yeh. He’s good enough for top 2 (and definite our best centerback), but some still in doubt for top 6. I’m not sure how some people’s minds work.
He wouldn't start ahead of Stones in a million years.
Lingard is in our best 11 right now and I feel that if we asked the same question with him the results would be similar.
The current aldeiweireld and vertonghen and seriously overrated. Let in goals every Saturday.
Just some love for them because they are able to pass a ball well from the back.
Just some love for them because they are able to pass a ball well from the back.
I think our fans massively overrate him. Everyone says Arsenal - Koscielny is superior in almost every way.
There's an awesome story with Smalling given his career is atypical but he's never made the step up to the very top level we'd all hoped he would.
When you compare him to a Brown or Silvestre- neither of which ever managed to be first choice for us - it's not even close.
If he's a first choice CB for us, we've just given up on our standards.
There's an awesome story with Smalling given his career is atypical but he's never made the step up to the very top level we'd all hoped he would.
When you compare him to a Brown or Silvestre- neither of which ever managed to be first choice for us - it's not even close.
If he's a first choice CB for us, we've just given up on our standards.
Because neither of them would make a first xi for a top 2 team. That's fine, both can be squad players but we should be aiming higher.
How is Koscielny superior in almost every way? Slower, more prone to mistakes, injury prone, hit and miss again in duels, etc. Injuries ruined his form. Have you been watching football last 4 years? Only guy that has managed to keep a high enough level despite injuries is Kompany. Shame about Koscielny because after initially kinda struggling a bit he really had something good going there for a good 4 years or something.
Arsenal.
And after VAR comes, he wouldn't start at all. Because he will be in training all the time, learning how to defend without pulling shirts of opponents or jumping over them.
And after VAR comes, he wouldn't start at all. Because he will be in training all the time, learning how to defend without pulling shirts of opponents or jumping over them.
And not just Lingard. You could ask the same of Rashford or Lukaku or Martial or Sanchez. These guys main positions are either LW or CF. Let's look at what other teams have in those two positions, shall we....
City: Sterling/Sane-Aguero
Liverpool: Mane-Firmino
Chelsea: Hazard-Higuain
Tottenham: Son-Kane
Arsenal: Iwobi-Lacazette
The answer is probably only Arsenal. Does it seem stupid to use that criterion to judge the players? If so, why does this not extend to Smalling?
All except City, people forget how good he is.
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Not sure Koscielny is that done though of course injuries have hit him. He generally still looks good when fit, like yesterday. I'd rate his reading of the game miles ahead of Smalling, and his positioning is better.
Also he can pass and control a football, so that's nice.