Christmas Tree Draft - FINALS - Isotope vs Gio

[Himannv]

Isotope's Starting XI

vs

Gio's Starting XI

Isotope's Tactics

Intro

Enough said about tactic, players, etc. I’ll leave it to you, ladies and gentleman, and others, to imagine the beauty of interplay of this Team.

How that strong defense transitioned into midfield. And the midfield seamlessly and selflessly supplying that beautiful attacking play.

It’s not perfect much, but it’s honest Team.

Gio's Tactics

TEAM
Our defence is based on the complementary pairing of Laurent Blanc and Pietro Vierchowod who have substantial experience taming many of the great attackers of the 1980s and 1990s. On the right is Leandro who is arguably the most under-rated of all Brazilian full-backs, and who just gets better every time I watch him for Flamengo and the Selecao. Newly recruited Roberto Carlos single-handedly manned the left flank for Real Madrid and Brazil and is a game-changer in such a narrow system.

Our midfield trio blends craft, defensive steel and attacking guile. A reshuffled midfield is modelled on Ancelotti's Milan team. Gerson moves into his natural Pirlo berth in the middle, next to Tito Goncalves in a holding partnership that should work in a similar way to Gerson's successful tandem with Clodoaldo. Both were the premium South American midfielders of the 1960s with Goncalves all-conquering at club level for Penarol and Gerson on fire for Brazil in 1970. Josef Masopust offers many of the two-way qualities of Seedorf and is a natural left-sided width-provider who can comfortably cover for Carlos. Goncalves on the other side enables Leandro to push on as well to ensure that the core remains strong.

Ahead are the two 10s in Zinedine Zidane and Rivaldo. Both a 90s wet dream, but crucially contrasting in styles - Zidane floating and dancing around midfielders, Rivaldo more vertical and direct and packing punch. Both are two of the greatest big-match performers of all time, Zidane deciding various finals and tournaments, Rivaldo a game-raiser of the highest order. Like an upgraded Rui Costa and Kaka, they can float, swap sides and cause all sorts of problems.

They will feed Luigi Riva who should be a smooth Serie A styled partner for Zidane. Similarly, Rivaldo struck an effective partnership with Kluivert and Riva has the presence and technical ability to bring similar qualities to the table. In the top strikers in the pool, Riva is perhaps best suited to playing in this formation by working across the line, stretching play and holding it up. Often he had to all of that and more for Cagliari in the late 1960s.

KEY POINTS

- We can defend narrow to provide a solid central core to withstand Iso's attack. As stacked as the opposition are, they are light on attacking width between the constraints of the Christmas Tree system and the nature of the full-backs. The relatively limited threat in the outside left and right channels allows us to defend tightly. Within that narrower space, the central defenders can provide aerial ability through Blanc and sheer pace through Vierchowod to cover the runs of Stoichkov and Cristiano. Meanwhile, Blanc's reading of the game ensured he boasted an impressive record against quick attackers such as Romario. Just ahead, Goncalves went up against many of the great 9.5s of the 1960s and emerged as a serial winner, often by closing down that very space.

- Brazilian full-backs in Roberto Carlos and Leandro to make the formation sing. When Christmas Trees clash, having class on the ball in wide areas outside of the clustered centre can be vital. Both full-backs are in their element taking the game to the opposition and have loads of space to do so.

- The partnership of Zidane and Rivaldo links midfield with attack neatly. It can create and finish. Both have impressive track records in big games, including against the opposition, Rivaldo smashing a first-half hat-track past Maldini's Milan in the Champions League, and has scored heavily against Mendieta's Valencia over the years, who himself was on the other end of a signature Zidane performance in their Euro 2000 quarter-final showdown.

 

[Himannv]

Good luck @Isotope @Gio

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Like Gio's D and A better, but he's packed one too many playmakers in the middle. Not feeling that trio is balanced.

Again Djalma! Good midfield. Nice to see Totti in a final. Cristiano looks like a coup!

 

[Physiocrat]

Iso's tactics are brilliant. Great use of Vasovic and Mendieta which also makes the best use of Djalma. Totti with two direct quick forwards is also lovely. I think though switching Stoichkov and CR7 would make use of the former's crossing ability better to supply CR7.

 

[Gio]

@Edgar Allan Pillow Yeah, thanks. I personally don't really see Masopust as a conventional playmaker, compared to the likes of Gerson who is a pure thoroughbred. That's just based on him having a more rounded Iniesta-esque role and set of attributes in the highlights I've seen from the match compilations for Czechoslovakia.

For what it's worth I really like Iso's front three with Totti in there - ooft. Nitpicking, but it does look like it would function as a 4-3-3 to all intents and purposes rather than an actual 4-3-2-1, particularly given both players hit their peaks in wide forward roles as opposed to central ones. I'm sure it'll still be properly dangerous, but their skillsets are arguably more suited to attacking bigger spaces from wider areas.

Whereas both Rivaldo and Zidane look more at home in the central AM spots of the system, in my view.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Isotope Which version of Ronaldo are you using? Utd, early Madrid or the strikerish version?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Edgar Allan Pillow Yeah, thanks. I personally don't really see Masopust as a conventional playmaker, compared to the likes of Gerson who is a pure thoroughbred. That's just based on him having a more rounded Iniesta-esque role and set of attributes in the highlights I've seen from the match compilations for Czechoslovakia.

I think both him and Gerson are good at bringing in the ball from the deep (Masopust being a better runner and Gerson the better passer), both are left footed and favour the left channels, defensively they are good at cutting off passing lanes, but not that much in tackling and ball recovery. I just feel their attributes are too similar to be complimentary.

Leaves a lot of defensive work on Nestor. He certainly would be up in a normal setup, but with these crowded midfields, the balance is a bit off. I'm not saying it won't work, but I just don't see that dynamic getting the best of Gerson nor Masopust.

Anyway will see if anyone else comments.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

For what it's worth I really like Iso's front three with Totti in there - ooft. Nitpicking, but it does look like it would function as a 4-3-3 to all intents and purposes rather than an actual 4-3-2-1, particularly given both players hit their peaks in wide forward roles as opposed to central ones. I'm sure it'll still be properly dangerous, but their skillsets are arguably more suited to attacking bigger spaces from wider areas.

Very valid point. @Isotope I don't think acting as a 4-3-3 would be a vote winner in the finals. How do you see them working in this formation?

 

[Isotope]

Very valid point. @Isotope I don't think acting as a 4-3-3 would be a vote winner in the finals. How do you see them working in this formation?

Stoichkov on NT always act as free role behind the striker. He was just everywhere. Going deep to collect the ball, playmaking, to the side, and as forward.

 

[Isotope]

@Isotope Which version of Ronaldo are you using? Utd, early Madrid or the strikerish version?

The Portugal NT as free role behind a striker, or sometimes as striker.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Why do I feel we don't see CR often in the finals. Can't even remember the last instance

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Totti, Mendieta, Vasovic, Gerson, Goncalves, Leandro - Seeing these guys in the finals makes me really happy

All credits to @Himannv - this is how draft finals teams should look like. Not goat studded affairs. You should run more drafts.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

For what it's worth I really like Iso's front three with Totti in there - ooft. Nitpicking, but it does look like it would function as a 4-3-3 to all intents and purposes rather than an actual 4-3-2-1, particularly given both players hit their peaks in wide forward roles as opposed to central ones. I'm sure it'll still be properly dangerous, but their skillsets are arguably more suited to attacking bigger spaces from wider areas.

Whereas both Rivaldo and Zidane look more at home in the central AM spots of the system, in my view.

Got to agree here, at the risk of volleys of abuse firing in after @Šjor Bepo and I tried to flip the fecker upside down. I feel that Iso might shade it in having the better team but you've got the better Christmas Tree. Easily the best pair of full backs we've seen in this draft for this system, an ideal CF in Riva, and an all-important contrast in playing styles between the two AMs Rivaldo and Zidane. Midfield looks a bit playmaker-centric but I struggled to vote against @Raees for that reason as it's pretty much a calling card of the Xmas Tree - seems like overkill but situationally works.

On Iso's team - love the choice of wide midfielders to provide width coverage and playmaking craft, but the rest doesn't click with me for the formation. From the horse's mouth:

In your book you go into detail about all your tactical ideas, but what came first, the system or the players?

The players come first and foremost. I spent a long time working with Sacchi and back then there was only one formation for me, 4-4-2, which was easy to explain. But things changed at Juve. I didn't like having to take Zidane out of his natural position by shunting him to the left or right, so I started looking at the players' attributes and designing a system that suited them. Before that, at Parma, I had the chance to sign Baggio. When I spoke to him, he said he wanted to play as an attacking midfielder and I told him I couldn't play him there because it didn't fit into our system. When I look back I think 'no way, how on earth did I turn down Baggio, a 20-25 goal-a-season player?' What I'm getting at is that you change as you gain experience.

Has it all been done in football?

I don't think so. You only have to look at Spain, which won the World Cup without an out-and-out centre-forward. Dynamism is the be-all and end-all.

But we haven't seen your Christmas tree at Real Madrid yet.

We tried the Christmas tree at the beginning, but we changed to the diamond formation and then 4-4-2. I can't use the Christmas tree here because of the players' attributes. You've got Cristiano, who likes playing on the left, and Bale on the right. You don't have the right players for that system. Then you've got Isco, for instance, who would fit right in as a central attacking midfielder.

But is it easier to apply in Spain?

It's not about the country. It's the novelty factor that gives you an edge. With Sacchi's system, the opponents didn't know what had hit them. The same thing happened at Milan with the Christmas tree to begin with, because people didn't know how to defend against the attacking midfielders, but coaches are smart and they eventually come up with a solution.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Pat_Mustard with NT versions of Cristiano and Stoichkov, would you still consider this a 4-3-3?

 

[Isotope]

Got to agree here, at the risk of volleys of abuse firing in after @Šjor Bepo and I tried to flip the fecker upside down. I feel that Iso might shade it in having the better team but you've got the better Christmas Tree. Easily the best pair of full backs we've seen in this draft for this system, an ideal CF in Riva, and an all-important contrast in playing styles between the two AMs Rivaldo and Zidane. Midfield looks a bit playmaker-centric but I struggled to vote against @Raees for that reason as it's pretty much a calling card of the Xmas Tree - seems like overkill but situationally works.

On Iso's team - love the choice of wide midfielders to provide width coverage and playmaking craft, but the rest doesn't click with me for the formation. From the horse's mouth:

This is from the same interview:

So what's the source of all these problems at the back?

Above all it's an issue of sacrifice, as well as good organisation. In my opinion 4-4-2 is the best defensive formation, because it's not easy to defend with only three midfielders. Plus I don't like giving Cristiano Ronaldo and especially Bale too much defensive responsibility, because we need their ability going forward. It's not easy to protect the defence and press up top with three midfielders. We had the same problem with the Christmas tree because it was difficult to cover for the full-backs when they pushed forward.

He ended up to put Ronaldo as 2nd striker with free role. It worked well against Bayern. It still looks like a variant of tree formation for me, with Ronaldo on slightly left behind a striker.

Spoiler

Also that Christmas tree formation works if any of midfielders or attacker can go wide to provide width also. By relying only on fullbacks, as Ancelloti said, it is difficult defensively because midfielder has to go to protect the holes left by fullbacks attacking high.

 

[Himannv]

Totti, Mendieta, Vasovic, Gerson, Goncalves, Leandro - Seeing these guys in the finals makes me really happy

All credits to @Himannv - this is how draft finals teams should look like. Not goat studded affairs. You should run more drafts.

Cheers, mate. If I do it again, I'll probably have one or two others in a committee. Setting up the matches for the group stages was difficult when I was focused on real life stuff around the time.

 

[Gio]

This is from the same interview:



He ended up to put Ronaldo as 2nd striker with free role. It worked well against Bayern. It still looks like a variant of tree formation for me, with Ronaldo on slightly left behind a striker.

Spoiler

Also that Christmas tree formation works if any of midfielders or attacker can go wide to provide width also. By relying only on fullbacks, as Ancelloti said, it is difficult defensively because midfielder has to go to protect the holes left by fullbacks attacking high.

I suppose the equivalent formation to the Bayern game there would see Stoichkov out on the touch line as a wide midfielder. Now naturally Ancelotti would have preferred Bale closer to goal, but he’s recognised that doing so leaves his team vulnerable to Bayern’s full backs running the game. That’s what I have tried to do here by using such a pair of flank-dominating full backs who excelled in narrow systems.
]

Both of them made a career out of playing in narrow formations. In such set-ups it’s worth highlighting that Roberto Carlos link man in the inside-left channel was either Zidane at club level or Rivaldo for Brazil. Both of whom are here to provide that smooth synergy and link up play. Not that we are only relying on full backs for width, as both the AMs, Riva and Masopust are comfortable in moving out to wide areas.

And as Ancelotti says he couldn’t use the Christmas tree with Bale (a Stoichkov lite) and Ronaldo because they needed wider systems to shine. One of them had to be sacrificed into a touch-line hugging full-back tracking shift to provide the width to allow the other the space to attack. Either he had to play a 4-3-3 (with gung-ho full-backs) or a 4-4-2 that looks more like Santa’s house rather than his tree.

 

[Gio]

Well played @Isotope. Lovely drafting (Netto and Mendieta my personal favourites as textbook system fits) and GOAT reinforcing.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Came very close to switching votes. Excellent finals from both managers.

Congrats Iso. Great as usual from Gio..

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Congratulations @Isotope and well done as usual @Gio

 

[Synco]

Completely missed it due to my dad moving house. Would have voted for Isotope, so it was irrelevant for the result.

Congrats @Isotope, your team was great from the get-go, totally deserved draft win.

@Himannv well run draft that was fun to follow.

 

[Isotope]

Completely missed it due to my dad moving house. Would have voted for Isotope, so it was irrelevant for the result.

Congrats @Isotope, your team was great from the get-go, totally deserved draft win.

@Himannv well run draft that was fun to follow.

Came very close to switching votes. Excellent finals from both managers.

Congrats Iso. Great as usual from Gio..

Congratulations @Isotope and well done as usual @Gio

Well played @Isotope. Lovely drafting (Netto and Mendieta my personal favourites as textbook system fits) and GOAT reinforcing.

Thank you, mates. And also who votes for me. Feels like Leicester won the League.

Said it before to GTSQ, my win is mostly down to win gambling on the sheeps. Need to do better with round 1 picking. My round 1 picking on D. Santos (2nd pick), Kopa (3rd), and Tresor (5th) are either a weakness or not good enough for Final. On the other hand, Gio has his first 5 picks on the Final, which shows a good planning since beginning. I need to learn more.

 

[Isotope]

I do believe that exposing those fullbacks, you need a very strong team, overwhelming the opponent to limit opponent chances on attacking those empty spots b, left by FBs. Or very strong defense and a few DMs to cover that FB spots. On equally strong teams, it will be punished.

 

[Isotope]

It's very difficult formation to pull off. Credit to @Himannv to come up with this idea. Any chance to see those 10 block picks, Him? if Gio doesn't mind.

I'd have picked Romario, if there was no randomly injured player on Final.

 

[Gio]

It's very difficult formation to pull off. Credit to @Himannv to come up with this idea. Any chance to see those 10 block picks, Him? if Gio doesn't mind.

I'd have picked Romario, if there was no randomly injured player on Final.

Yeah would be interesting to see. I mistakenly left Cristiano free because you'd had such praise for the front three as a unit that I didn't you'd think you'd mess with the Kopa/Fontaine partnership, or you'd want to keep Stoichkov on the left. Still blocked the other attacking GOATs just in case, but my attention was more on prevention you securing a mammoth upgrade in midfield or at left-back by blocking Matthaus, Neeskens, Facchetti, Baresi etc.

 

[Isotope]

Yeah would be interesting to see. I mistakenly left Cristiano free because you'd had such praise for the front three as a unit that I didn't you'd think you'd mess with the Kopa/Fontaine partnership, or you'd want to keep Stoichkov on the left. Still blocked the other attacking GOATs just in case, but my attention was more on prevention you securing a mammoth upgrade in midfield or at left-back by blocking Matthaus, Neeskens, Facchetti, Baresi etc.

That's why I asked Himannv earlier if there would be injured player session. I'd be screwed if that injured player were Stoichkov. Not with against your stars-studded AMCs, man. Ridding my luck all the way to the Final with him as the only real "star" on the LF position. Tried to get Ronaldinho but everyone was thinking the same on 3rd round. . So my focus was anticipating Stoichkov would be gone.

My blocks were players that I thought I'd never stood a chance, if you got any of these:

1. Pele
2. Maradona
3. L. Ronaldo
4. Zico
5. Messi
6. Baresi
7. Beckenbauer
8. Rijkaard
9. Figueroa
10. V. Basten

There are at least another 10 more players that I'd like to block, though.

 

[Isotope]

Also I'm a big fan of Vasovic. I think he's (almost) as good as Scirea in 4-man defence. Such a clever player, and good passer.

But it seems like not much love for him. Seen him as just a 'good' CB.

 

[Gio]

Here's mine - Pele, Maradona, Facchetti, Ronaldo, Baresi, Beckenbauer, Scirea, Matthaus, Neeskens, Breitner.

Cristiano was in but I ditched him for Breitner.

My first pick was Rijkaard, then Van Basten, then Carlos.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

My round 1 picking on D. Santos (2nd pick), Kopa (3rd), and Tresor (5th) are either a weakness or not good enough for Final.

Why won't Kopa be not good for a final? Esp in this formation, he's a perfect fit and definitely final worthy.

I don't have any knocks against Tresor too. I have high regard for him and esp with GOAT forwards blocked, he should be good for finals.

Djalma alone was a misfit in this formation...but Mendieta really helped a lot.

 

[Isotope]

Why won't Kopa be not good for a final? Esp in this formation, he's a perfect fit and definitely final worthy.

I don't have any knocks against Tresor too. I have high regard for him and esp with GOAT forwards blocked, he should be good for finals.

Djalma alone was a misfit in this formation...but Mendieta really helped a lot.

Agreed that Tresor is good enough for Final. I meant to say that I have Vasovic already, and many see that Tresor is not a good fit with Vasovic, as they're "too similar". My vision was to have two ball playing CBs that actually good defenders also. But now I have to pick only one of them.

With Kopa? c'mon. You and many didn't even think he's good enough for your 3rd pick. He's good with Fontaine, and fit with Stoichkov on the other side. Once one of those elements is taken out, it's hard to look at him against the likes of Zidane or Rivaldo, which Gio has. Or maybe I'm just undersold Kopa.

Speaking of which, it crossed my mind to go with

Stoichkov
CRonaldo -------------- Kopa--​

Do you think it could work? Stoichkov is really a versatile player with high level on any attacking positions, imho.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

With Kopa? c'mon. You and many didn't even think he's good enough for your 3rd pick.

Stoichkov
CRonaldo -------------- Kopa--​

Do you think it could work?

The only reason I didn't pick Kopa was that I had him in my tree in earlier draft.

He's a Balon d'Or winner playing AM for France and spent a season at Outside Right for Real Madrid. Just tailor made for that role in a Tree. With a 9.5 (Stoichkov or Cristiano) on other side, it'd be a perfect AM duo in a Tree.

And as to that formation, I have an issue with Stoichkov far far more than Kopa, who's perfect!

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

This was my attempt with Skizzo and Pat. Kopa is awesome in that role in a Tree and definitely final worthy.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/billy-no-mates-draft-r1-e-s-p-vs-harms.414311/

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

And as to Vasovic, you definitely didn't need him. A tree has bunch of playmakers in the middle already, so a attacking CB is probably less useful than in any other formation. A good balanced CB should do the job. I'd argue Tresor was a better fit than Vasovic in a Tree.

 

[Isotope]

Here's mine - Pele, Maradona, Facchetti, Ronaldo, Baresi, Beckenbauer, Scirea, Matthaus, Neeskens, Breitner.

Cristiano was in but I ditched him for Breitner.

My first pick was Rijkaard, then Van Basten, then Carlos.

Dang that's too close.

 

[Isotope]

This was my attempt with Skizzo and Pat. Kopa is awesome in that role in a Tree and definitely final worthy.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/billy-no-mates-draft-r1-e-s-p-vs-harms.414311/

It is, when you have that kind of team.

 

[Isotope]

And as to Vasovic, you definitely didn't need him. A tree has bunch of playmakers in the middle already, so a attacking CB is probably less useful than in any other formation. A good balanced CB should do the job. I'd argue Tresor was a better fit than Vasovic in a Tree.

True. I just like my CB to be a very good passer. it adds dimension to you attack if your CB can ping passes, or contribute to midfield dominance, too. And Vasovic just fit the bill, while being an excellent defender also.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

It is, when you have that kind of team.

When I started this draft, my top 2 for that role were Kopa and Mazzola. I had Kopa before so wanted Mazzola this time.

@Šjor Bepo highlighted Savicevic in earlier draft and I was convinced he'd fit seamlessly since both got picked before my turn.

Believe it or not, Kopa is definitely a finals candidate for this draft.

 

[Isotope]

When I started this draft, my top 2 for that role were Kopa and Mazzola. I had Kopa before so wanted Mazzola this time.

@Šjor Bepo highlighted Savicevic in earlier draft and I was convinced he'd fit seamlessly since both got picked before my turn.

Believe it or not, Kopa is definitely a finals candidate for this draft.

Now you make me feel better, Edgar. Thank you, bro.

 

[Himannv]

Congrats @Isotope excellent drafting on the whole. Very pleased to see the likes of Mendieta getting some plaudits.

My biggest regret is that this is yet another draft where Pirlo didn't get rated highly enough. Back to the drawing board with that I guess. Apart from that, a lot of things worked out as planned, with the reinforcements but also the use of players who we don't often see in latter rounds of these drafts.

 

[Isotope]

Congrats @Isotope excellent drafting on the whole. Very pleased to see the likes of Mendieta getting some plaudits.

My biggest regret is that this is yet another draft where Pirlo didn't get rated highly enough. Back to the drawing board with that I guess. Apart from that, a lot of things worked out as planned, with the reinforcements but also the use of players who we don't often see in latter rounds of these drafts.

Thanks, mate. Kinda forgot how Mendieta played like. So did watch a couple of his games. My goodness, he's just incredible with Valencia. Attack, defence, energy, vision. It's difficult to relate to that blond player at Boro.

On Pirlo, I remember he went to win a Final, with midfield of Seedorf-Pirlo-Gatusso. Was it Cutch or a poster with similar name. I remember because I lost with Rijkaard-Desailly-Ballack in midfield, and Benarrivo-Baresi-Hierro-Thuram in defence. But then he had Maldini-Nesta-Kohler/Canavaro - Cafu on defence. Just one of those days.

Edit: Found it https://www.redcafe.net/threads/auction-draft-qf2-cutch-vs-isotope.392095/