Christmas Tree Draft - R1 - GSTQ vs P-Nut

[Himannv]

P-Nut Starting XI

vs

GSTQ Starting XI

P-Nut's tactics

Gone full dominate possession and suffocate the game that way.

Defense are all comfortable on the ball, going against another Xmas tree means the full backs will have plenty of space so on one side we went for the playmaking of Kimmich who can spray the ball around nicely. Evra on the other side will push on and overlap Ze Roberto who is more adept at drifting wide.

Midfield 5 are all capable on the ball, with Didi being the most ball dominant of the middle 3. Modric whilst being a ball player, has worked impeccably with Kroos for years so will have no issues with Didi. Ze Roberto on the other side as already indicated will drift wide to stop the pitch becoming too crowded centrally.

Silva and Mazzola will dovetail as playmaker and goalscoring 10. Mazzola pushing on beyond Bergkamp will be key to unlocking the defence after they've been moved around with the ball rotation.

Bergkamp spearheaded the great Arsenal teams with Henry pushing beyond him from deeper in much a similar way that Mazzola will do here. He's obviously great on the ball as well which is a prerequisite for this side

GSTQ tactics

Style of play - Attacking - dominate proceedings

Thoughts -

1. The team is built with an emphasis on opening as many channels as possible.
2. Nedved and Beckham are the two most crucial pieces that will open up channels centrally and out wide. And they will work their socks off when we are out of possession.
3. The choice of fullbacks was keeping in mind that the team is uber attacking, so the fullbacks need to be balanced and defensively very good.
4. Both Beckham/RVN and Nedved/Del Piero are proven partnerships which should add great chemistry to the team.
5. Socrates is one player who could gel well in any attacking team with so much talent on the ball.
6. Foirster - Bratseth is a really complimentary pair with Shilton in goal. The back 5 is really solid.
7. Deschamps will be the holder, the constant defensive presence in front of the CB's.

 

[Himannv]

@GodShaveTheQueen @P-Nut

Good luck to you both and seasons greetings as well!

 

[P-Nut]

Both teams are setting out to dominate the ball, and in those stakes I'd say I'm definitely better suited to take control in that way. We can retain possession much easier with the ball players through the side.

 

[P-Nut]

Good luck by the way @GodShaveTheQueen

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Is Bergkamp playing False-9'esque role here @P-Nut ?

Two very good teams.
Think P-Nut's is lacking overall goal threat a bit.
Not sure if Nedved-Backs is a tad too attacking in here. A quick counter might see Deschamps caught out alone.....

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Good luck by the way @GodShaveTheQueen

Good luck mate.

@GodShaveTheQueen @P-Nut

Good luck to you both and seasons greetings as well!

Wish you the same and thanks for creating the thread.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Not sure if Nedved-Backs is a tad too attacking in here. A quick counter might see Deschamps caught out alone.....

3. The choice of fullbacks was keeping in mind that the team is uber attacking, so the fullbacks need to be balanced and defensively very good.

I think I got the balance quite right. Obviously would have preferred Zito starting but Deschamps is pretty fine as well

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@P-Nut whats the story with Didi? Just looks bizarre. That team cries for a proper defensive mid.

 

[P-Nut]

Is Bergkamp playing False-9'esque role here @P-Nut ?

Two very good teams.
Think P-Nut's is lacking overall goal threat a bit.
Not sure if Nedved-Backs is a tad too attacking in here. A quick counter might see Deschamps caught out alone.....

Sort of, I took inspiration from the role he played at Arsenal in a 2 man attack with Henry pushing beyond him and also a bit of how modern teams expect the CF to be the link player when not playing with a 10.

As you mentioned the lack of goals meant I needed to allow Mazzola to push on a lot more than a traditional 10 would do.

He's in his perfect inside right role here, and obviously played as a CF at times so is going to revel here having free license to bomb on.

With the rotations and ball movement dragging everyone all over the place I think he's primed to win this one.

 

[P-Nut]

@P-Nut whats the story with Didi? Just looks bizarre. That team cries for a proper defensive mid.

I didn't want to focus too much on defending without the ball. I wanted to go full possession football where the defending is done by pure ball dominance and forcing the opponent to rush when they finally get a chance to get on the ball.

We see it all the time that teams panic and struggle when they see a tiny amount of possession. Didi dictating from deep here will be a nightmare to pick up and he's constantly a danger to free someone up clean on goal, even from deep.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I didn't want to focus too much on defending without the ball. I wanted to go full possession football where the defending is done by pure ball dominance and forcing the opponent to rush when they finally get a chance to get on the ball.

We see it all the time that teams panic and struggle when they see a tiny amount of possession. Didi dictating from deep here will be a nightmare to pick up and he's constantly a danger to free someone up clean on goal, even from deep.

thats fair, but again, why Didi? Specially as you had a GOAT available in Busquets. Didi is just a recipe for disaster, id pay to watch it though reckon id give him 10 minutes to have a first major feck up while trying to nutmeg someone in the first third of the pitch. Never seen anyone obsessed with nutmegs as him.

 

[P-Nut]

thats fair, but again, why Didi? Specially as you had a GOAT available in Busquets. Didi is just a recipe for disaster, id pay to watch it though reckon id give him 10 minutes to have a first major feck up while trying to nutmeg someone in the first third of the pitch. Never seen anyone obsessed with nutmegs as him.

Just wasn't adventurous enough for me with Busquets. I want someone capable of playing a long defence splitting pass as well as rotating the ball as their main job.

Alonso would likely be a better fit, but certainly not as fun and the goals we could possibly score would be nowhere near as fun.

 

[harms]

Yeah, I’m sorry, but Didi should only be a left attacking midfielder there. Even on the left side of a midfield 3 you can probably buy him (with the right personnel), but a pivot with Ze Roberto and Modrić?

Considering Ze Roberto’s stint as a full-on DM, I’d probably swap him with Didi, but even that it would’ve been a questionable set up.

 

[Jim Beam]

Went with Godshave. Defence and midfield are close to perfect. There is something about attacking three I just don't think it is optimal, but since I can't put my finger on it (or whatever the dumb expression goes) I will stay quiet.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

There is something about attacking three I just don't think it is optimal, but since I can't put my finger on it (or whatever the dumb expression goes) I will stay quiet.

Give me something to work with if I do get to the reinforcements. What doesn't seem great?

 

[Jim Beam]

Give me something to work with if I do get to the reinforcements. What doesn't seem great?

Maybe it is just me. The only thing that comes to my mind is a faster forward instead of any of those 3. Like proper counter attacking player.

 

[Invictus]

@GodShaveTheQueen's lineup is plausible and sharp. Don't quite share Edgar's reservations about the combination of Nedvěd and Beckham in there — you would be hard pressed to mention better all-round wide midfielders in that capacity as they allied technical competence with tactical foresight and the engine to motor up and down the pitch (or sideways). Speculatively, Sócrates should work reasonably well with them as he could periodically drop centrally to knit the game as the apex of a passing diamond network. Deschamps is rather underrated, but you do get the sense that he can be improved upon — that reinforcement will presumably be a priority going forward.

Lots to like about @P-Nut's team as well, but Didi as the #6 is a real game-changer (and not in a good way). You could theoretically buy him as a deep midfielder in a precisely designed setup but not with Modrić and Zé Roberto, and in a Christmas Tree, his best role would probably be as an inside forward. Might have an overabundance of playmakers as well — aside from him, you have Modrić, Silva, Mazzola, Bergkamp. Even though all of them were intelligent and had a certain selfless streak in them, you would ideally want more cold-blooded killers to get on the end of moves (rather than construct them). That being said, this is Round 1 of a draft with a limited pool and most teams are going to be work in progress types, so being overly critical would be unfair.

Anyhow, good luck both. And have a happy, healthy 2021.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Deschamps is rather underrated, but you do get the sense that he can be improved upon — that reinforcement will presumably be a priority going forward.

Got Zito on the bench. Was injured for this game.

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[Synco]

Happy New Year everyone!

My vote went to @GodShaveTheQueen, well-balanced team throughout. I like the midfield arrangement a lot.

Only thing I was unsure about after drafting was how much I'd like Demyanenko in a system without wingers. At least from what I saw, he appeared clearly right-footed and prone to the classic stop & turn routine in the final third. Which imo works fine behind a left-footed winger, but less so as the primary width provider in a modern setup. But Nedved on his side and the role laid out in the OP have negated these doubts.

I think @P-Nut's plan for dominating possession is clearly visible with Ederson, Didi & Bergkamp. But Didi is probably not the right player for the DLP role, and I think an actual DM would have been good with Zé and Modric - the more passing ability the better, of course. I also think Bergkamp isn't the right guy for the #9 spot, no matter how his role is interpreted - as a spearhead he's not the right type, and a false 9 would work better with true wide forwards.

Otherwise that team looks great. I really like the CM pair, the backline with attacking FBs, and the deep forwards (in addition, Bergkamp would be one of the best options for that role in the whole draft, imo).

One thing I'm not sure of is how well the CBs could deal with Van Nistelrooy - "not sure" to be taken literally, as I can't really judge Hansen's & Chumpitaz's ability to handle such a physically dominant CF. Again, I get the aim is to starve GSTQ of the ball in the first place, but I don't think it would work to an extent that would nullify his impact.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Don't quite share Edgar's reservations about the combination of Nedvěd and Beckham in there — you would be hard pressed to mention better all-round wide midfielders in that capacity as they allied technical competence with tactical foresight and the engine to motor up and down the pitch (or sideways).

Yeah. I initially had a feeling they'd be susceptible to a quick counter, but not necessarily so. Good versatile top tier duo that.

Also @Himannv you need to check the make voters visible option when creating polls so we can know who voted for whom. In close even matches, that might be crucial.

 

[Jim Beam]

Also @Himannv you need to check the make voters visible option when creating polls so we can know who voted for whom. In close even matches, that might be crucial.

I think this is opposite from what everyone thinks, but imo this is better.

There is a growing frustration when you see that someone always votes against (hi, sharky). More importantly I realised that it influences the way the way you vote. For example, if you vote 3 or 4 matches against someone you will hesitate then to put a vote against. I think seeing the votes has more wrong then right.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I think this is opposite from what everyone thinks, but imo this is better.

There is a growing frustration when you see that someone always votes against (hi, sharky). More importantly I realised that it influences the way the way you vote. For example, if you vote 3 or 4 matches against someone you will hesitate then to put a vote against. I think seeing the votes has more wrong then right.

It's necessary to ensure AM votes and competing SF managers vote etc aren't counted.

I can understand your concerns, but hiding the vote doesn't necessarily fix the problem you mention. Some votes will be biased, no getting past that.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

It's necessary to ensure AM votes and competing SF managers vote etc aren't counted.

I can understand your concerns, but hiding the vote doesn't necessarily fix the problem you mention. Some votes will be biased, no getting past that.

Just remove involved votes from the start and problem solved, singles start with -1, those with AMs with -2

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Good game @P-Nut

Great that the first game of the draft starts with two colorful teams and not the usual Christmas trees.

 

[Physiocrat]

Just remove involved votes from the start and problem solved, singles start with -1, those with AMs with -2

Good idea although I do like to see the voters sometimes just to see if someone who normally votes against me votes for me.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Only thing I was unsure about after drafting was how much I'd like Demyanenko in a system without wingers. At least from what I saw, he appeared clearly right-footed and prone to the classic stop & turn routine in the final third. Which imo works fine behind a left-footed winger, but less so as the primary width provider in a modern setup. But Nedved on his side and the role laid out in the OP have negated these doubts.

I was of the opinion that Demyanenko was known to man the whole left flank himself even without a left winger.

@harms / @Demyanenko_square_jaw for more thoughts on this.

 

[P-Nut]

Good game @P-Nut

Great that the first game of the draft starts with two colorful teams and not the usual Christmas trees.

Yeah good game mate, knew the pure attack focused possession system wasn't going to be well received, but wanted to go with it anyways

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Yeah good game mate, knew the pure attack focused possession system wasn't going to be well received, but wanted to go with it anyways

It reminded me of when Pep wanted to get Pirlo to Barcelona having already had Xavi and Iniesta.

Not sure if his plan was the same as yours, but you know he would have tried the below in a few games for sure.

-------Iniesta------------Xavi---------
--------------------Pirlo-------------------

 

[P-Nut]

It reminded me of when Pep wanted to get Pirlo to Barcelona having already had Xavi and Iniesta.

Not sure if his plan was the same as yours, but you know he would have tried the below in a few games for sure.

-------Iniesta------------Xavi---------
--------------------Pirlo-------------------

And I'd have watched every single game

 

[harms]

I was of the opinion that Demyanenko was known to man the whole left flank himself even without a left winger.

@harms / @Demyanenko_square_jaw for more thoughts on this.

Yeah. Frequently played as a winger himself and often was used in weird combinations with Rats on the left. When Demyanenko played behind Blokhin he often took control of the whole wing by himself pretty much.

 

[Synco]

I was of the opinion that Demyanenko was known to man the whole left flank himself even without a left winger.

@harms / @Demyanenko_square_jaw for more thoughts on this.

Yeah. Frequently played as a winger himself and often was used in weird combinations with Rats on the left. When Demyanenko played behind Blokhin he often took control of the whole wing by himself pretty much.

The question I had wasn't so much how he was used historically, but if there might be a difference in contemporary tactics. Of course starting with asking the guys who saw him play a lot a few things about some traits and habits.

But as I said, it's irrelevant for this match or this draft anyway, maybe I'll pick it up some time later in another thread.

 

[harms]

The question I had wasn't so much how he was used historically, but if there might be a difference in contemporary tactics. Of course starting with asking the guys who saw him play a lot a few things about some traits and habits.

But as I said, it's irrelevant for this match or this draft anyway, maybe I'll pick it up some time later in another thread.

I have absolutely no issues with playing him here without a winger ahead of him. In fact, I’d only pick a very few other fullbacks for that role ahead of him.

 

[Synco]

I have absolutely no issues with playing him here without a winger ahead of him. In fact, I’d only pick a very few other fullbacks for that role ahead of him.

I fully got that from your first post already. Looking at the replies, my intention seems to come across very different to what I meant, which is probably my fault. I just drop the subject.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

-------Iniesta------------Xavi---------
--------------------Pirlo-------------------

I don't think that would be as effective as Busquets. Pirlo's long passing won't be utilized without bypassing the duo. Busquets with his recycling ability just rounds out the duo much better than Pirlo's playmaking skills.

 

[P-Nut]

I don't think that would be as effective as Busquets. Pirlo's long passing won't be utilized without bypassing the duo. Busquets with his recycling ability just rounds out the duo much better than Pirlo's playmaking skills.

I see things like this said a lot in this drafting community and its probably one of the biggest things that I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum with.

Having an additional skill can never be a negative for me. Pirlo can recycle the ball just as well as Busquets, but if the opportunity presents itself to go long, after drawing the opposition forward he's better equipped to pull off that pass. It gives the opposing team an extra problem, rather than reducing your own gameplan.

 

[Ecstatic]

There is a clear lack of arrows in the submitted pictures. Would have enjoyed the fireworks.

Midfield Battle - GSTQ wins

From a tactical standpoint, Didier Deschamps is MOTM

He isn't the player I would replace first in this tactical configuration.

As the French philosopher says - Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?

Bossa Nova Midfield - Pnut wins

The proposed 4-6-0 can make the Christmas Tree dizzy

Dutch Death Toll - GSTQ wins

The Non-Flying Dutchman would have loved to play with a flying partner in crime who can't be Merlin et El Mago, nor Baffo. And I know for a fact that Thierry Henry would agree with me.

On the other hand, Van Gol would fly thanks to the the support of the Italian Pinturicchio version 1997 and Spice Boy.

Total Scoreline GSTQ 2-1 Pnut

 

[Ecstatic]

I see things like this said a lot in this drafting community and its probably one of the biggest things that I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum with.

Having an additional skill can never be a negative for me. Pirlo can recycle the ball just as well as Busquets, but if the opportunity presents itself to go long, after drawing the opposition forward he's better equipped to pull off that pass. It gives the opposing team an extra problem, rather than reducing your own gameplan.

I agree. Xaviesta has been successful for Spain/Barcelona with Busquets, which shouldn't mean that they can only be successful with Busquets and his cousins.

Zizou has been relatively successful with France 1998/00, Juventus, Real Madrid and France 06: very different tactical systems.

Then, players like Modrić and Pirlo have very different facets - especially Cruyff of the Balkans - and their versatility which contributed to their greatness is strangely denied in these discussions. A player like Modrić can play anywhere in a midfield: offensive if you take the amazing Dinamo Zagreb version or a more defensive based as seen more recently.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Great summary @Ecstatic

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I see things like this said a lot in this drafting community and its probably one of the biggest things that I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum with.

Having an additional skill can never be a negative for me. Pirlo can recycle the ball just as well as Busquets, but if the opportunity presents itself to go long, after drawing the opposition forward he's better equipped to pull off that pass. It gives the opposing team an extra problem, rather than reducing your own gameplan.

you cant have multiple players running the game, at least i never saw that and in theory it makes absolutely zero sense so in case of Pirlo with Iniesta and Xavi, it would be a massive debacle just like 90% of Pep transfers. Its either Xavi or Pirlo, pick which ever you prefer or rate and enjoy.
Thinking about it, its a damn shame his dream never came to light because we would have at least one CL more in our trophy cabinet.

 

[P-Nut]

you cant have multiple players running the game, at least i never saw that and in theory it makes absolutely zero sense so in case of Pirlo with Iniesta and Xavi, it would be a massive debacle just like 90% of Pep transfers. Its either Xavi or Pirlo, pick which ever you prefer or rate and enjoy.
Thinking about it, its a damn shame his dream never came to light because we would have at least one CL more in our trophy cabinet.

Again why? Why can 2 absolute greats of their time not work together to elevate each others game? Are we really going to say we know better than Pep how tiki taka works? In fact it may be a bit off to call it tiki taka as it may have been that the style changed slightly, and stopped it going down the same path of endless sideways passing that Spain got stuck in.

It's a shame there's been so many instances of Pep wanting to try it, but not getting the player, same can be said of wanting Jorginho on top of Silva and De Bruyne in midfield. Maybe one day he'll get to try it and we'll at least have an inkling on whether it works.